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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 2 to 26 of 41. Go back in thread:
Posted by happyflower on October 11, 2005, at 22:20:43
In reply to Need advice about friendship with former therapist, posted by Blossom on October 11, 2005, at 21:51:58
Hi Blossom,
I personally don't have a problem with a T being friends with a formal client. I know there are people going to say it is unethical and what he is doing it wrong but I don't feel in every case it is wrong. I know a lot of people disagree with me about this. But I do believe that once he is a friend, he shouldn't be your T anymore if you need a T in the future.
It is clear that you two share a bond that was developed in therapy and you both continue to feel this out of therapy. I would enjoy the attention and if you were meant to be friends then it will happen.
The fact that you see him at his clinic without being a client shouldn't alarm anyone, how do they know you are a FORMAL client and not a current one.
Does he mutually contact you or are you doing all the connecting? If it is equal, then just have fun and enjoy yourself, but don't forget to make friends with others too. :)
Posted by Susan47 on October 11, 2005, at 22:29:11
In reply to Re: Need advice about friendship with former therapist, posted by happyflower on October 11, 2005, at 22:20:43
I don't know, this is really interesting. Do you think he might really have some erotic feelings about you? That's one thing I'd watch, but I know how powerful the desire to be everyday friends with your ex-T is. It's cruel the way therapy relationships are put into a box and I'm so happy for you that you're getting this opportunity. And I'm curious about how, besides the fact that he's a therapist and you were a client at one time, I'm curious how you match up as friends. Is he different in feeling than any other friends you have?
Posted by crazy teresa on October 11, 2005, at 22:33:41
In reply to Need advice about friendship with former therapist, posted by Blossom on October 11, 2005, at 21:51:58
Hey Blossom!
Good to see you posting again!
I'm a little confused. Do you go to the clinic just to visit with him or do you have another reason for being there once a week?
You may not have any intentions of having a romantic relationship, but I've never heard someone say they intentionally set out to have an affair. It just happened is the usual explanation. And you are the proverbial girl half his age...
You probably should ask him why he's allowing this friendship despite his comments.
How would you have felt if his wife would have seen you sharing the cookie? Better still, how would his wife have felt?
crazy teresa
Posted by happyflower on October 11, 2005, at 22:39:32
In reply to Need advice about friendship with former therapist, posted by Blossom on October 11, 2005, at 21:51:58
I think my T and I have a lot in common and enjoy each others company too. I do know a lot about him and I see him as a normal guy, not some hero or something. If it was okay with him, I would meet him for some coffee once in a while to catch up with each other, after my therapy is over. I do see him at the gym every now and then, so I can at least see him and say hi. If we are both okay with it, then that would be nice. I do know that I couldn't see him as my therpist anymore if I was to become a personal friend though. But I am okay with that, there are 1000's of T's out there. Have fun!
Posted by Emily Elizabeth on October 11, 2005, at 23:17:53
In reply to Need advice about friendship with former therapist, posted by Blossom on October 11, 2005, at 21:51:58
Okay, this is probably not what you are hoping to hear, but as I read your post I started to worry for you. To me, it seems like you are playing with fire. My concern is that your ex-T will suddenly decide that he is not comfortable about the nature of your relationship (whatever that is) and cut off all contact with you. I can't imagine how hurtful that would be.
Don't get tied up in debating the ethics of this situation. In a way, it is beside the point. What is important is the practical reality of the situation. You are in a vulnerable position where you can get really hurt.
Forgive me if this sounds harsh, but someone said that there are 1000's of T's out there. I would add that there are also 1000's of friends.
Please take care of yourself.
Best,
EE
Posted by happyflower on October 12, 2005, at 0:01:50
In reply to Re: Need advice about friendship with former therapist » Blossom, posted by Emily Elizabeth on October 11, 2005, at 23:17:53
You know the more I thought about what EE said, I think she is right in this case. You did say that at the end of your therapy, you grieved for him like he died or something. That is a lot of pain and it sounds like you were very attached to him. I think it he was to end your friendship now, you might feel the same way or worse. How long were you in therapy? I like my T a lot, but I don't feel that attached to him anymore like I did in the early therapy. I think I will miss him a little after therapy is over, but I will be okay separating from him. I think you should be careful, even though it is very exciting and all. Is he your only friend that you talk to, or do you have other friends as well?
Posted by Tamar on October 12, 2005, at 7:15:25
In reply to Need advice about friendship with former therapist, posted by Blossom on October 11, 2005, at 21:51:58
Hi Blossom,
Good to see you posting.
I do think it’s possible to become friends with a former therapist, and that it can be a mutually rewarding relationship.
But I think it’s only possible in the right circumstances. It has to be right for him, and it has to be right for you.
I think that several conditions have to be met for it to work:
1. You need to discuss what becoming friends will mean. Your therapist has to be sure that you understand you can never return to therapy with him. You need to understand that if you need a therapist at some point in the future you will have to build up a new sense of trust with someone else. You can never do therapy with him again.
2. You both need to be sure that you aren’t hoping for something more than a friendship. If either of you wishes for a sexual relationship, or even a father-daughter relationship, the friendship probably won’t work (it would be based on hopes that you can never fulfil for each other).
3. You need to think about how you will feel as he gradually ceases to represent whatever he represented in therapy. (For example, my therapist represented safety, and I still think of him whenever I want to feel safe. If we became friends, he would become like any other person and I’d lose my symbol of safety. I’m not ready for that… Are you?)
4. He needs to be certain that he could talk about the friendship with his colleagues. If it’s something he’d feel inclined to keep quiet about, then it’s a good indication he’s doing it for the wrong reasons.
5. You need to be sure that the friendship is not significantly more important to you than your other friendships. If it feels much more important, it probably won’t work (it would be based in therapeutic transference, which can’t survive the ups and downs of friendship).My main concern in your situation is that the two of you seem to be drifting into a friendship without having talked about the implications. I think perhaps he’s being a little irresponsible in allowing that to happen. It’s not unlike the way people drift into an affair and then say they were swept away by the passion. Perhaps you can have a friendship with your former therapist, but I really believe it has to be a choice you make. I don’t think possible to let a friendship just develop (as other friendships do).
I really worry that you could get hurt. I suspect that eventually, perhaps in consultation with a colleague, he’ll come to realise that he’s compromising his professional ethics. And since few people want to risk their job for a friendship, he would probably end the friendship, which could be extremely painful for you.
I think you need to ask yourself some difficult questions and answer them as honestly as you can, to see if you’re really ready for a friendship like this. Ask yourself questions like:
If he got a job in another town and left two weeks from now, would you be completely devastated?
Would you like to get to know his wife?
If he kissed you, would you be tempted to take it further?
How would you feel if you had an argument with him? Or if he criticised you, or stood you up, or didn’t reply to a couple of emails?If you can imagine a friendship like all other friendships, you might have a good chance of success. But if you feel you’d be devastated if he left town, or if you’re a little jealous of his wife, or if you wish for sexual contact, or you’d be terribly hurt if he neglected you, you’re probably not ready yet. And maybe you’ll be ready one day… You might just have to wait.
I think your best chance of getting what you want (if what you want really is a friendship with your former therapist) is to talk openly to him about it. If you’re going to have a friendship, you both need to choose it carefully because of the ethical issues. You need to be able to demonstrate to him that you’re emotionally ready for it. And he needs to demonstrate to you that he still has your best interests at heart. It’s not like the beginning of any other friendship: it has to be handled with special care and maturity.
If you’re able to show that maturity by raising the topic with him, then perhaps you can persuade him that a friendship would be a good thing. You might not persuade him, and that would hurt. You’d wish you’d never said anything; you’d imagine that if only you’d kept quiet everything would have been OK. But in fact, if you don’t talk about it to him, I am certain the hurt will be much, much worse, because if you *don’t* talk about it and he continues to behave in a way that is contrary to his usual professional conduct, he will eventually ‘wake up’ and realise what is happening. And to lose his friendship a few months from now would be so much worse, I think.
If I were in your situation, I’d say something like, “I’m enjoying spending time with you. And I know it’s a little unconventional to spend time together like this, given our former therapeutic relationship. But I’m enjoying getting to know you a little and it feels very comfortable to me. I wonder if you’ve thought about it, because I know it’s probably best for both of us if we’re absolutely certain we’re not doing something unethical.”
And… this is the crucial part… he needs to take the discussion seriously. If he waves it aside and says it doesn’t matter, then you should probably run away very fast.
I hope so much that everything works out OK for you.
Tamar
Posted by Blossom on October 12, 2005, at 9:01:08
In reply to Re: Need advice about friendship with former therapist, posted by Susan47 on October 11, 2005, at 22:29:11
Hi Susan,
Yes, I would say it is definitely different than the other friends that I have. And let me just interject here that I have many, many other wonderful friends, so it's not like I'm being all clingy and co-dependent here. But the reason that it's different is that he IS my former therapist. So that means that I don't call him. I don't initiate any contact with him away from his work. I know that there are still limitations, so I am not as free him as I am with my friends (like with hugging, etc.) because I don't want to send the wrong impression.
Blossom
Posted by Blossom on October 12, 2005, at 9:19:28
In reply to Re: Need advice about friendship with former therapist » Blossom, posted by crazy teresa on October 11, 2005, at 22:33:41
Hi,
I am a graduate student in the psychology department (not clinical) at the university where he works. I go to the university clinic for doctor's appointments or to visit the pharmacy about once a week, and when I do, I go say hi.
The really weird thing is that his wife is the administrator in the psychology department's training clinic (ie, she oversees the training of the "student-therapists"), and I have seen her from time to time. She probably knows who I am because once, I passed her in the hallway, and we both turned around after passing, and looked at each other, like when you do when you think you have seen someone you recognize, but you're not sure.
Considering the fact that his wife and I work in the same building, it would be extremely unwise of me to even consider anything more than a casual friendship. She could come downstairs and strangle me ; )
Blossom
Posted by Blossom on October 12, 2005, at 9:37:27
In reply to Re: Need advice about friendship with former therapist » Blossom, posted by Tamar on October 12, 2005, at 7:15:25
Hi Tamar,
I think your advise is sound.
Once, I came to talk to him about a big problem I was having with my graduate advisor, and said to him, "I know you're busy, and I realize that I am neither friend nor client anymore, so if you don't have the time, it's okay." He replied, "Well, you're more a friend than a client." So I think he's acknowledging the relationship, but nobody has said anything about the implications, and from time to time, he still acts like he's my therapist. So now it's like I'm in a relational limbo with him.
I don't think there's the same transference that there was in therapy. Even in therapy, I would fight and argue with him, always in a congenial way, of course. We certainly don't agree about everything, but that's okay. I've come to realize that there's not a single person on earth who agrees with me about everything.
As far as wanting something more than friendship, I am absolutely sure that I don't. I actually think he's kind of a stinker, but that's part of what makes him fun to be around.
So, one of these days, I think I'll follow your advise. I'm going to get up the courage to ask him about it, and lay things out. It could be risky. I don't want him to think that I'm criticizing him for not holding to his own rules. But on the other hand, if I don't at this point, you're right. I'll probably get burned.
When I ever get around to that conversation, I'll let you guys know how it goes.
Blossom
Posted by muffled on October 12, 2005, at 12:26:13
In reply to Need advice about friendship with former therapist, posted by Blossom on October 11, 2005, at 21:51:58
> Hi everyone,
>
> I have a question for you. I know I don't post here too often, but maybe a few of you have read some of my previous posts about my (now former) therapist. So basically, I terminated with him last April. By the time I terminated, our relationship had essentially become a friendship. It was definitely 2-sided.***Isn't therapy usually 2 sided?
He even admitted that he had told me at least twice as much personal information about himself as any other client, and he said at one point "yeah, I guess we have become friends."
***'Yeah, I guess'......that doesn't sound very enthusiastic
He also made some remarks that led me to suspect that he had some erotic feelings for me, though he never made any direct admission of that.
***WHOAH!!! RED light. STOP now. Gaaack. Not good.So, so, bad, bad, bad. Career destroying. Marriage destroying. Life destroying.
On the other hand, he had said several times that he didn't become friends with clients for several reasons, and reiterated this during our next to last session (although I never brought up the subject).
***Ahhhh! So listen to him talking sense.
When I finally terminated, I grieved horribly for him. It was just terrible. It was like he had died.***Alarm bells. Way too attached. Not good, not good.
Then one day, I decided I would just keep in touch anyway. Now, I email him fairly often, and I see him at the clinic about once a week. I've met his wife and daughter incidentally***Met?
We share mutally about our lives,***We?
and once we went to a nearby cafe, he offered to buy me something, and we shared a cookie.
***Shared?
He's more than twice my age, and I have no intentions of any romantic relationship with him.
***Yeah right. You and everyone else.
>
> I am just wondering if this is okay. I feel kinda weird showing my face in the clinic when I am not his client anymore. What will the other therapists think?***Listen to your logical self, not emotional self.
And is this considered improper?***Yes. Not recommended for VERY good reasons.
I kinda wonder why he allows this after he's reiterated that he doesn't do things this way.
***YOU initiated it, not him. He's human. He's having a weak moment. You are pushing some buttons for him that he likes.
Maybe I should ask? But then I'm afraid that he'll terminate the friendship.***YES, yes, yes. Listen to yourself!!! You keep answering your own questions, you just don't like the answers and don't want to hear them.
He is a funny, interesting person, and I do enjoy the relationship.***I'm sure he is delightful. But this is not good. You have other friends. If you care any about him you will let go. If you care about you, let go.
>
> What do you guys think?
>
***I know nothing but what is written here. But what is written screams to me that you should not be friends. Please read this in your rational mind. Don't let your emotions carry this. Way too charged with emotion.
Sorry if I'm harsh. Better now than later. You can yell at me, all caps, if you want.
Thanks, please listen,
Muffled.
Posted by orchid on October 12, 2005, at 13:21:37
In reply to Need advice about friendship with former therapist, posted by Blossom on October 11, 2005, at 21:51:58
This is quite interesting situation.
It is hard to resist the temptation to be friends with former therapist, especially when you work in the same place and you go to his building frequently, and you are also planning to become a psychologist.
And you have also said you don't want anything more than a friendship.
I would say just go for it. But keep it minimal perhaps. You don't have to go every week. Maybe once in a month? That way you will get the best of both !!
I am always of the opinion that no relationship between two individuals should terminate completely for any reason whatsoever (unless if they don't like each other and want to terminate). If you drift apart naturally that is fine. But if you wish to talk to one another, (as long as it is kind of casual and no sexual encounters etc), I don't see a problem. But keep it minimal and casual so that no other issues arise out of it. Once in a month or two - casual contact - I don't see why that is a big issue.
Posted by orchid on October 12, 2005, at 13:33:19
In reply to Re: Need advice about friendship with former therapist » Blossom, posted by orchid on October 12, 2005, at 13:21:37
But I had another thought.
How would you feel though, in case your T stops all contact abruptly with you? For some consideration like ethical issues etc? I think that will be devastating for you?
I think maybe atleast being aware of the possibility that he might end all contact with you suddenly one day might help. Even if he says he won't do it now, you never know what is up in the air. And if he would change his mind. I don't think there can be an completely open and honest friendship given the fact that he holds an upper hand in the relationship. Also there will always be concerns like "Can I tell this to him?", "Oh, what about this", and you would likely take each of his statements quite personal.
So in view of all that, real friendship may never be possible. But limited social contact and mild friendship would definitely be possible - but don't over do it.
Posted by Blossom on October 12, 2005, at 19:50:28
In reply to Burned all right. » Blossom, posted by muffled on October 12, 2005, at 12:26:13
> ***Isn't therapy usually 2 sided?
>
Okay, what I mean here is, I share about myself, he shares a bunch of personal stuff about himself too. Not the usual therapy stuff. More like you do in a friendship.> He even admitted that he had told me at least twice as much personal information about himself as any other client, and he said at one point "yeah, I guess we have become friends."
>
> ***'Yeah, I guess'......that doesn't sound very enthusiastic
>
I guess under the circumstances (considering how he does NOT become friends with his clients), I took it as a reluctant admission.> He also made some remarks that led me to suspect that he had some erotic feelings for me, though he never made any direct admission of that.
>
> ***WHOAH!!! RED light. STOP now. Gaaack. Not good.So, so, bad, bad, bad. Career destroying. Marriage destroying. Life destroying.
>Right. But we all know how therapists sometimes have countertransference. I posted on this subject some months ago. At first, it really freaked me out when I realized it, but I don't think that he intended me to know how he felt, and I became comfortable believing that he did not intend to act on those feelings. Anyway, as I said, I have absolutely NO intentions of that kind of relationship.
> When I finally terminated, I grieved horribly for him. It was just terrible. It was like he had died.
>
> ***Alarm bells. Way too attached. Not good, not good.
>
>
You're right. I completely agree. After that, I vowed that the only thing that would get me back into therapy with anyone would be a risk to my very life. Yeah, everyone grieves to some extent when they terminate, don't they? But I think that it was worse for me because there was already a very clear boundary crossing. So instead of losing a therapist that I clearly didn't need anymore, I was losing someone with whom I had formed a different kind of bond.
> I kinda wonder why he allows this after he's reiterated that he doesn't do things this way.
>
> ***YOU initiated it, not him. He's human. He's having a weak moment. You are pushing some buttons for him that he likes.
>
Wait a minute, here! That's akin to saying that a woman is at fault for being raped because she's flirtateous. I may keep in contact with him, BUT, let me reiterate that HE started it back in therapy. He's the one who crossed the boundary. And, yes, I may unintentionally push his buttons with my charming self (whatever ;) but HE is the therapist here. He's the one who's supposed to keep this from happening if it's not supposed to. I'm responsible for my own integrity and to some extent, my own protection. But for me, this is not a matter of integrity, since it's not a romantic relationship. He's responsible for his personal AND professional integrity. Thus, my wonderings about the relationship. Why does he allow it if it's not okay? I need to know.>
> Maybe I should ask? But then I'm afraid that he'll terminate the friendship.
>
> ***YES, yes, yes. Listen to yourself!!! You keep answering your own questions, you just don't like the answers and don't want to hear them.
>
>
Maybe I don't like the answers, or maybe I'm just wondering. I feel like I'm emotionally healthy enough to do the right thing, but that doesn't mean it's easy.Blossom
Posted by Blossom on October 12, 2005, at 20:05:11
In reply to Re: Need advice about friendship with former therapist » orchid, posted by orchid on October 12, 2005, at 13:33:19
Hi orchid,
> How would you feel though, in case your T stops all contact abruptly with you? For some consideration like ethical issues etc? I think that will be devastating for you?
At this point, I don't think this would be nearly as devastating as it would have been six months ago, as long as he does it properly and explains his reasons.
Right now, I email him from time to time, and he only answers about half the time. I don't take it personally. It's just the way things are. I actually learned that back in therapy with him too. Sometimes, he'd come in and be kinda grumpy, and I'd find out that there was something else going on, and it had nothing to do with me. I think that getting to the point where I could see things that way was part of the emotional healing process for me.
>
> So in view of all that, real friendship may never be possible. But limited social contact and mild friendship would definitely be possible - but don't over do it.Yeah, maybe. It is definitely not your normal friendship, because there are all these rules and expectations, and prior history involved.
Blossom
Posted by Blossom on October 12, 2005, at 20:07:43
In reply to Burned all right. » Blossom, posted by muffled on October 12, 2005, at 12:26:13
Hi again, muffled.
I'm just curious. You obviously have pretty strong views on this subject. Forgive me for my ignorance if this is common knowledge here, but I'm wondering where you are coming from. Are you a therapist, a client who has gone through something like this, or known someone who has or just someone with common sense : ) ?
Blossom
Posted by muffled on October 12, 2005, at 20:26:41
In reply to For muffled., posted by Blossom on October 12, 2005, at 20:07:43
> Hi again, muffled.
>
> I'm just curious. You obviously have pretty strong views on this subject. Forgive me for my ignorance if this is common knowledge here, but I'm wondering where you are coming from. Are you a therapist, a client who has gone through something like this, or known someone who has or just someone with common sense : ) ?
>
> BlossomI'm all mixed up right now. Things are going good and I'm not used to that. It seems that when things go good thats when I get slammed somehow.
Mebbe your post resonated w/me somehow. It sure pushed my buttons somehow.
I still think I'm right however. I also don't think I'm responsible for my friends behavior, but if I think somethings not right I'm gonna call it. I just got scared that you are so setting yourself up for a great big fall. There are so many negatives and very few positives. he may be older, he may be a T., but he's also a man. Just a guy. He can screw up like everyone else.You don't need him, he don't need you. Its all just so ripe for trouble. Thats my exalted opinion. I am a completely uneducated idiot who's f*cked up most of her life.I've made many choices in my life. Most of them bad. Thats my credentials. So obviously, what I say don't really mean much. You take what you want and leave the rest, or just pitch it all in the dumpster.
By the way, you seem quite pleasant Blossom.
Muffled
Posted by Blossom on October 12, 2005, at 20:49:37
In reply to Re: For muffled. » Blossom, posted by muffled on October 12, 2005, at 20:26:41
Well, life experience is definitely worth something, and if I wasn't the least bit concerned, I wouldn't have brought it up in the first place, right? Obviously, some things haven't gone right, since he had already majorly crossed boundaries before we terminated, which is worrisome. So I will definitely consider your advice.
Thanks!
Blossom
Posted by Susan47 on October 12, 2005, at 22:23:48
In reply to Re: For muffled., posted by Blossom on October 12, 2005, at 20:49:37
What boundaries had he crosssed before you terminated?
Posted by Susan47 on October 12, 2005, at 22:29:39
In reply to Re: For muffled. » Blossom, posted by muffled on October 12, 2005, at 20:26:41
You said, "I am a completely uneducated idiot who's f*cked up most of her life.I've made many choices in my life. Most of them bad."Just to be clear, hon', an education doesn't make a person un-f*cked-up! And being uneducated doesn't automatically make a person f*cked up either.
I liked the way you broke up what Blossom said, and provoked thought instead of blind acceptance of what she had to say.
Because really, you have excellent, valid points. You do. And what you say does mean much, it means a great deal, because it comes from your life, what you personally have lived and have to share with everybody, and I hope you just keep sharing, because that's how we all help each other .. and sometimes not, we can't always be there the right way and that's just a fact of life (which I hate, BTW)!
Posted by fairywings on October 13, 2005, at 0:20:55
In reply to Re: Need advice about friendship with former thera, posted by Blossom on October 12, 2005, at 9:19:28
> Considering the fact that his wife and I work in the same building, it would be extremely unwise of me to even consider anything more than a casual friendship. She could come downstairs and strangle me ; )Not only that, but she could make your life a living h*ll as a student! Not that she would, but she could.
fw
Posted by fairywings on October 13, 2005, at 0:31:55
In reply to Re: For muffled. » Blossom, posted by muffled on October 12, 2005, at 20:26:41
Hi muffled,
I think you're basing what you said on everything we know to be what's supposed to be true, from the experience of ppl on the board, from reading "In Session; ", and from every lick of information out there on the web on transference and countertransference. It's okay to state your opinion, when it's strong or not, you have good stuff to say, please don't quit.
((((hugs))))
fwBlossom,
Maybe for your ex T developed some countertransference, and maybe because you're a student in the psych dept. he feels like a mentor somewhat, maybe more, it's been known to happen. Who knows, I think Tamar is right, facing it head on is probably the best way to go, but maybe wait till you're done with your studies, so it doesn't devastate you if something goes wrong, or if his wife gets wind of it?
Posted by Blossom on October 13, 2005, at 8:44:45
In reply to Re: For muffled. » Blossom, posted by Susan47 on October 12, 2005, at 22:23:48
Welll....I would consider the fact that our sessions had degenerated into conversations with mutual sharing of both parties to be a boundary crossing, wouldn't you?
I think that a different kind of relationship forms when the therapist trusts his client with personal information about his own life, and current struggles and trials. That's what has happened.
Blossom
Posted by Blossom on October 13, 2005, at 8:54:43
In reply to Re: For muffled. (and Blossom) » muffled, posted by fairywings on October 13, 2005, at 0:31:55
> Maybe for your ex T developed some countertransference, and maybe because you're a student in the psych dept. he feels like a mentor somewhat, maybe more, it's been known to happen. Who knows, I think Tamar is right, facing it head on is probably the best way to go, but maybe wait till you're done with your studies, so it doesn't devastate you if something goes wrong, or if his wife gets wind of it?
>
>
I'm not sure. I definitely think there's some kind of countertransference here, but while I'm in the psychology department, my field is not clinical. It's actually probably the farthest removed from clinical that you can get (Behavioral Neuroscience). He has told me that he really doesn't know that much about that field, but perhaps because I know more about psych than many people, it makes me easier to talk to, and I might seem sort of intelligent that way ;).The problem with waiting until my studies are done is that I'll probably be here another three years! A lot could happen in that amount of time.
Blossom
Posted by muffled on October 13, 2005, at 11:25:10
In reply to Re: For muffled., posted by Susan47 on October 12, 2005, at 22:29:39
>
> You said, "I am a completely uneducated idiot who's f*cked up most of her life.I've made many choices in my life. Most of them bad."
>
> Just to be clear, hon', an education doesn't make a person un-f*cked-up! And being uneducated doesn't automatically make a person f*cked up either.
> I liked the way you broke up what Blossom said, and provoked thought instead of blind acceptance of what she had to say.
> Because really, you have excellent, valid points. You do. And what you say does mean much, it means a great deal, because it comes from your life, what you personally have lived and have to share with everybody, and I hope you just keep sharing, because that's how we all help each other .. and sometimes not, we can't always be there the right way and that's just a fact of life (which I hate, BTW)!Thanks susan that was nice what you said. I heard it. Thanks.
Muffled.
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