![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 23 to 47 of 53. Go back in thread:
Posted by happyflower on July 24, 2005, at 6:58:05
In reply to Re: sorry about this post, maybe I should just shut up » happyflower, posted by 10derHeart on July 23, 2005, at 21:55:12
> No. NO. PLEASE don't shut up.
> It's really, really okay what's you've written.
> You sound angry and like you dumped a bit more of the poison, and Babble is a great, safe place for that.You know you made me see that I am still angry. I thought I was okay with it, but now that I am finally doing some positive things with my life, like playing the trumpet again, taking gardening classes, and exercising, it makes me very angry that my parents did what they did, and it effected my life in negative ways and I made some bad choices because of it. I guess I am really angry. I wonder what my T is going to think of that? I must have surpressed my feelings of anger growing up because I had to for my own protection.
> Also remember, so many people read and don't post. Or maybe just not yet. You could be helping someone right this minute feel stronger about having lived through the same kind of torture, just by their reading such honest things from you. Like maybe someone even in therapy, but too scared to tell their T. what really happened to them....you never know. There's just so much power and support in realizing you're not alone in stuff.I hope you are right it is helping someone but at the same time I hope stuff like this didn't happen to anyone else. But the sad thing is child abuse happens everyday.
> Happyflower, you are awesome. Really. You have done the one thing your mother nor anyone else involved can ever take away - turned your back on evil and abuse and brought beautiful children into the world where you love and cherish them daily. That kind of REAL mothering causes God to wipe a tear of joy from His eye, IMHO.
>
> And BTW, I am quite honored to *know* you.
>
You know I have been crying a lot today, but this really made me cry, I am truely amazed on the kind things you say to me. You have truely touched my heart. You are going through your own stuff and you still take time out of your life and help me. You are an angel, really. Thank you so much for caring about me.
Posted by happyflower on July 24, 2005, at 7:05:44
In reply to Re: sorry about this post, maybe I should just shut up » 10derHeart, posted by Shortelise on July 23, 2005, at 22:14:06
> HF,
>
> I don't want you to shut up either, and I don't see these as *your* dirty secrets.I appreciate you allowing me to vent, I think I need to do more of this and you are right that it is helping me release those toxins. I hope eventually it will lose some of the power too.
> Once someone I didn't know very well mentioned, in context, that she didn't have a relationshp with her mother because she had been abusive, I found it perfectly understandable and acceptable. I said I was sorry to hear that, and we left it there, no big explanations, no judgments, no nothin'. You might get to that place. With your wonderful T, I think it's a pretty sure bet.
I am so happy that you can NOT judge someone like that. So many people judge me because I don't talk to my mother or have her in my life. They look at me like there is something evil I am doing by disrespecting my mother. Especially very relgious people who swear by the "Honor thy mother". Well I guess in a way she wasn't really a mother anyways. Thank you for supporting me. I guess I have a lot to talk about in therapy Monday, I hope my T is up to it.
Posted by happyflower on July 24, 2005, at 7:08:50
In reply to Re: What goes through a child abuser mind, posted by 64bowtie on July 23, 2005, at 22:38:25
> ...definitely a conflict that escalates to violence in a single step without contemplation... Mature adults contemplate options.................
>
> RodThank you Rod for answering my what I thought was a "unanswerable" question. I am not sure if you mean by "conflict", you mean something inside her head, or something I was doing to cause conflict.
Posted by happyflower on July 24, 2005, at 7:14:28
In reply to Re: sorry about this post, maybe I should just shut up » happyflower, posted by Jen Star on July 23, 2005, at 23:16:39
> hi happyflower, I like having you around no matter what you write or no matter what your name is.
Well today I am tearfulflower, and I am happy Jen that you accept me not matter what kind of flower I am . :)
You are helping me by listening, something a lot of people in real life don't want to do because it is hard to hear this stuff. I hope it is helping sharing these stories for me, but yet I don't want to cause anyone distress from them either. I feel like I might be ready to really open up to my T. I guess I have been holding on to this stuff too long. Thanks again Jen for your support.>
Posted by happyflower on July 24, 2005, at 7:20:19
In reply to Re: sorry about this post, maybe I should just shut up, posted by Susan47 on July 23, 2005, at 23:26:00
You are right Susan, my mother isn't anyone who would understand anything real. I guess there is really no real answer to justify what she did to me. I think you are right, walking away was the best thing I have ever done. Some people are so evil. I guess my best punishment for her is living a good life, something she will never have. And showing her that she can't break me anymore. Thank you Susan :)
Posted by happyflower on July 24, 2005, at 7:40:10
In reply to Re: What goes through a child abuser mind *trigger* » happyflower, posted by daisym on July 24, 2005, at 0:58:44
> I'm so sorry for what you endured.
>
> You don't have to answer this...if you needed to rage and then stop, I completely understand. On the other hand, if you could stand a little back and forth:Well I waited to answer this post last, because it is really making me think. It seems like you are asking these quesions, Daisy, for help in understanding your stuff. I have more thinking to do, but I will answer what I think I feel and believe.
I think as an adult, I can see that the evil had to do with her, not me. But as a child, how could I ever have rationalized that? I don't think I could, so probably as a child, I thought it was something I was doing to cause her anger and hate. I am sure I thought it was my fault. I always knew something wasn't right with my family.
Luckly, I could watch things like The Cosby Show, Bradey Bunch,Little House, and Leave it to Beaver, to hope and dream for a family like those. For parents who loved me, yes I will always yearn for that love. I did have some wonderful friends parents and teachers who gave me more than they ever reallized. My brother wasn't so luckey. He is really messed up and will probably always be. He got it a lot worse than me. I am sure at one point in my life I thought I wasn't good enough for a mothers love. But I don't think that now, thank goodness.> >
> For me, the sexual abuse, in the name of love and soothing and as an apology for being harsh left a wake of confusion. After all I wanted the love, so why not the acts? I wanted to be special, didn't I? And...I swear I've heard this...it isn't supposed to linger as traumatic because girls eventually have sex anyway, right?Really what you were receiveing wasn't really love, it was someone's sick lust and abuse. But I am sure as a child you felt it was special and love. Yes, girls eventally have sex, but it is a mutual thing, a loving thing, something you SHARE with other. Your abuser was TAKING it from you. It is not the same thing.
> I have asked the "How could he?" question so any times in therapy, complete with quiver chin and tearful outrage. And equally vehemently I ask, "how could he leave me?"
I think if you grew up thinking that this was love, then of course you would wonder "why" he left you and would miss him. It makes a lot of scense to me why you have this conflict.
I never felt love or anything for my mother. I did feel hate, but I don't even feel that anymore. I guess I never knew what I was missing, so I don't miss it so much now. Now I have others in my life who love me, so missing a mother, I don't know what I have ever missed. I don't know if this makes sense or not, Daisy,. I do have to think about it more, maybe I will come up with something else. Thank you for you support as always, Daisy. It means a lot!
:)
> I'd really like to know what you think.
Posted by happyflower on July 24, 2005, at 9:54:49
In reply to Re: What goes through a child abuser mind *trigger* » daisym, posted by happyflower on July 24, 2005, at 7:40:10
I don't know what is wrong with me but I am so mad and sad about what happened to me. Why now? I have no idea. I don't know if it is doing all the good stuff for my self lately made me realize on how I was not really living before. My parents really messed me up and I guess I am now seeing it more than ever. I guess I feel like I am grieving my childhood.
I worked out today, hard, but it didn't take away the anger. I have been crying too, and it is not helping.
I am glad I have a session tommorow with my T. It is going to be one emotional day for me, I hope he can help me through this. He hasn't ever seen me this upset before. What my parents did was so evil and just wrong. I need to get over this if it is possiable. :(
Posted by antigua on July 24, 2005, at 11:26:02
In reply to I am so angry and sad, posted by happyflower on July 24, 2005, at 9:54:49
Sounds to me like you're grieving for what you never had, which is a really good thing.
You are very brave,
antigua
Posted by spalding on July 24, 2005, at 13:39:30
In reply to I am so angry and sad, posted by happyflower on July 24, 2005, at 9:54:49
happyflower...
As antigua said, you ARE so brave. Who knows why this stuff comes up when it does, but I'm so glad you're working through it. I'm glad you have a session tomorrow. Working out, crying...well, to me it sounds like a positive start.
You sound like a wonderful mother. Your children are so lucky. Be so proud of yourself...heck, I'M proud of you!
I did not experience overt abuse in my family, but there was a lot of subtle psychological abuse. My mom would always say to me, "If I had to do it all over again, I wouldn't have had kids." Very much like what you said in your first few posts, "How can someone do that? Say that? To a child? To her face?" My T. says there are a lot of things I chose not to understand, and now I'm trying to understand them. But this one, I'm stuck.
My pdoc suggested a book to me, "The Narcissistic Family," which talks about "overt and covert" abuse. It's an eye-opener.
You are doing such good work. Give those kids another hug and let it come back to you.
Take good care, you are so strong.
spalding
> I don't know what is wrong with me but I am so mad and sad about what happened to me. Why now? I have no idea. I don't know if it is doing all the good stuff for my self lately made me realize on how I was not really living before. My parents really messed me up and I guess I am now seeing it more than ever. I guess I feel like I am grieving my childhood.
> I worked out today, hard, but it didn't take away the anger. I have been crying too, and it is not helping.
> I am glad I have a session tommorow with my T. It is going to be one emotional day for me, I hope he can help me through this. He hasn't ever seen me this upset before. What my parents did was so evil and just wrong. I need to get over this if it is possiable. :(
Posted by pinkeye on July 24, 2005, at 13:56:09
In reply to I am so angry and sad, posted by happyflower on July 24, 2005, at 9:54:49
Hi HF !!
Nice to see you back. I am sorry about what happened the other day with my thread.. (I will work out that later with you. But breifly, there are huge differences between our situations - I am an adult, and you were a child when the abuse happened.. I know my chances, the risks that I am taking, I can judge my husband, how far he would go, and I can go to other people or stay by myself in the worst case which was not the case with you. Any time I think my husband is becoming a real danger to me, I will leave him the next moment - ok?? I hope that puts your mind at ease a little bit.. I think he is a good person basically, and that he would get better with time and effort and there is still lot of hope for me - which was not the case with your mother.)
I read all your posts - I feel so bad for you, that you had to go through all that as a child. Childhood is for being innocent, and experience all the pleasant things in the world, and being loved unconditionally.. I am really sorry that was taken away from you so badly. I wish I could go back and get hold of your mother and put some sense into her, and make her understand what she is doing to you.. And I am also in awe of you and my regards for you is so huge that you turned it all around and made your life and your kids life such a beautiful thing. It really takes a lot of inhert goodness and worth in a person to be able to do that. And I really see that in you.You are never wrong in writing here anything ... You know I have written things here myself.. This board is one bunch of amazingly understanding and compassionate people - and there is never a No for anything. I hope you allow yourself to get all the support you will get here.
Of course you are sad and angry - who wouldn't be when they go through all this torture in childhood??
What your mother did - you didn't deserve. Any of it. What she did was out of her own psychological complications.. her own life being screwed up in some way by some one in her lift.. and it has nothing to do with you. You just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time, so to speak. And your mother would probably have been better, if she could have had some counselling or some emotional support and was able to work through HER problems with some one. In all likelihood, she didn't know or understand enough to seek help. And she took it out all on you, you being the helpless little thing in her hands.. But you are not the one to blame.. You were just a helpless and little child. And she, if she was a little bit of a decent human beign, would have understood that.. But she didn't. Which says a lot about her poor character. And you are right to break away from her and not let her interfere in your life anymore.
I hope that you can work through it with the help of your T and support here in babble, and that you will one day completely heal from the pain and sadness, and that you will come to understand that what happened was the outcome of a mentally sick individual trying to cope up with the world in the way she knew, and that she is just one out of a billion people, and that the world is not that way for the most part. And that you will receive plenty of warmth and support and love all that you deserve for being such a wonderful person that you are from others.
Posted by fairywings on July 24, 2005, at 14:20:32
In reply to Re: What goes through a child abuser mind *trigger*, posted by happyflower on July 23, 2005, at 18:54:55
>
> Why do people judge me when I say I don't have a relationship with my mother? What the heck did I ever do? Not all mothers are meant to be mothers. Some mothers are very evil.Happy, I'm just so sorry about all of this. You never had a "mother". You're a mother to your beautiful children, but she never mothered you sweetie.
If you're talking to people who know her, it's just none of their business. If you're talking to people who don't, you could say you don't have a mother, or that she's dead.
FW/Jazzy
Posted by Daisym on July 24, 2005, at 16:33:07
In reply to I am so angry and sad, posted by happyflower on July 24, 2005, at 9:54:49
Happy --
Thanks for your response. I was concerned after I posted that you would misinterpret what I was trying to sort out, like my experiences were some how "worse" or "better" than your experiences.
I've been researching grief and child abuse for a long time now. When I first started working in therapy, I assumed I was depressed. I told several therapist I met that if I was screening myself, I would have referred me to mental health services, starring the "depressive symptoms" box. My therapist agreed that I had the symptoms but he pointed to a convergence of both a mid-life, existential crisis as well as deep grief that was boiling up, having been reactivated by my son's struggles. In discussing treatment options, he did offer that we could medicate the symptoms and in all likelihood I would feel better and go back to functioning in a similar manner. And crash again in a year, or two or five. But he warned that sorting through all of the "stuff" -- past, present and future, would be painful and it would take awhile. He said I needed to give myself room to grieve because the grief was forcing its way out anyway.
One of the articles I found talks about the "Dark Night of the Soul" and what a huge task it is to recover from childhood abuse:
"Those who grew up with severe abuse or neglect have a lifetime of inner work to do before they feel whole, healed, and complete. Child abuse/neglect causes a state that I call “The Void,” which is a giant emptiness inside. When I ask adult survivors of abuse to visualize themselves at the edge of an abyss, they will see and experience a bottomless pit that is as wide as the Grand Canyon. Out of the void arises addiction, feelings of emptiness, a feeling as if one is never living on solid ground, and a profound depression that can provoke suicidal thoughts and acts."These people suffer tremendously emotionally. Over the years, psychiatrists will treat them with every category of psychiatric medication. Medications rarely work, and when they do, the effect is usually short-lived. It would take too long to explain the biology of this, but it is easy to explain the symbolism. If you throw a pill of Paxil into the Grand Canyon, what is the impact on the Grand Canyon going to be? Nothing. When we treat adult survivors of abuse with anti-depressants, we are essentially trying to heal the great abyss with a tiny pill. It does not work.
"Whether you are questioning the meaning in life, having an existential crisis, or a Dark Night of the Soul, your experience should not be confused with Clinical Depression. You do not want to short-circuit this process with medication any more than you want to abort the grief process with medication. In both situations, medication will ultimately lead to genuine depression, the exact thing it is intended to treat. You cannot treat “meaning” with a drug. Nor can you accelerate your expansion of consciousness, your spiritual awareness, with medication.
"Before you can find the light at the end of the tunnel, you must first determine which tunnel you are walking through. " --By David Gersten, M.D.
Framing the work this way helped me change my expectations a tiny bit. I think the medications are important for keeping the symptoms manageable but it helped me to know that I couldn't expect to find a medication to take away all the pain. And it helps to think about grieving all of this. I don't agree with all, or maybe even half, of what Dr. Gersten writes about. But it made sense to me that I needed to grieve what I didn't get as well as what I did get and then figure out how to regulate it as part of my history, not the predictor of my future happiness.
I wish I was in a place to BELIEVE everything I've just written. But I believe it for others and I'm trying hard to follow one of the basic tenants of grieving - take each day as it comes and get through it the best you come. Eventually the nights won't be so long and you won't count how many minutes until this day is done and over. It is a process, as Billy Crystal says. And that means sometimes you are up and sometimes down. I wish this was an up time for you.
Posted by Shortelise on July 24, 2005, at 16:52:33
In reply to What goes through a child abuser mind *trigger*, posted by happyflower on July 23, 2005, at 18:02:55
HF,
It seems to me that you are in the full throes of therapy, that you are looking in the hard places, and feeling things that are not easy to feel. It's part of the process, as we all seem to say here at one time or another, and it will get better.
You'll be ok.Love
ShortE
Posted by happyflower on July 24, 2005, at 16:58:54
In reply to Re: I am so angry and sad » happyflower, posted by spalding on July 24, 2005, at 13:39:30
Once again, thanks for all the support, it has really helped especailly since my DH was out of town. Now he has back, he held me while I cried my eyes out and told him what I was feelings.
Several months ago when EMDR uncovered some memories of abuse that I have surpressed for years, I had to come to terms of yes, I was abused. I never wanted to admit that because if I was abused I would some how be a damaged person. Who wants to be with a damaged person? It also helped me not go into a downward spirle and really be depressed and not do anything with my life. Keeping those feeling surpressed helped me achieve the success that I do have. But with the EMDR, it brought it all out. Now I am "safe" to deal with those memories.
Well I am not sure, but this is how it feels, I feel like I am now grieving my childhood, my young adult life where I didn't live out my potential, and the wrong choices I have made because of all of what happend in my childhood. I am very angry but also very sad. I think the fact that I have been starting to "live", it made me realize that I wasn't living before, only surviving. I really feel sad, like someone died, and I am going to their funeral. The funeral is for me, my childhood which was lost. That part of me has died. I can't change it, but I think I can maybe appreciate my life more, and really live, not just survive.
What are you thoughts about this? Is this a process or somthing that I am going through? I am glad I see my T tommorrow, I want to know what he thinks too. Thanks guys again. I need to make dinner, and my family is going to one of those free concerts in the park. Life always goes on, maybe a better life for me someday. :)
Posted by pinkeye on July 24, 2005, at 19:50:01
In reply to My childhood died, maybe a good thing, posted by happyflower on July 24, 2005, at 16:58:54
You are a wonderful survivor... I really admire your living capacity.. !!.
Posted by muffled on July 24, 2005, at 23:45:47
In reply to I am so angry and sad, posted by happyflower on July 24, 2005, at 9:54:49
> I don't know what is wrong with me but I am so mad and sad about what happened to me. Why now? I have no idea. I don't know if it is doing all the good stuff for my self lately made me realize on how I was not really living before. My parents really messed me up and I guess I am now seeing it more than ever. I guess I feel like I am grieving my childhood.
> I worked out today, hard, but it didn't take away the anger. I have been crying too, and it is not helping.
> I am glad I have a session tommorow with my T. It is going to be one emotional day for me, I hope he can help me through this. He hasn't ever seen me this upset before. What my parents did was so evil and just wrong. I need to get over this if it is possiable. :(There is good in the world and there is evil. There is hurt and there is healing. I wonder how your moms mom was like? Not that it matters, evil is evil. It gives me such hope that aperson can go thru what you did and still be so nice. You have light inside you, how wonderful. In a way I pity the people full of darkness. If I had to choose, I'd choose to have light inside me and be tortured than to be the evil one. Your mother will get whats comming to her one day. I believe that.
Posted by B2chica on July 25, 2005, at 10:21:20
In reply to sorry about this post, maybe I should just shut up, posted by happyflower on July 23, 2005, at 20:07:35
i actually liked what you wrote. you expressed it very well. it's what you felt, questions you have, NEVER be sorry for questions or for looking for answers Especially answers to help you heal.
(fyi. my mother did the same sink or swimm with me, luckily i did bob to the top.)
and i like both flowers. their the same and you and others sharing is the reason i come babble. help resolve my own issues, know i'm not alone, vent, cry, get support and give it.
(((((HUGS))))) happy AND abused flower.
b2c.> I think people rather have happyflower around instead of abusedflower. I don't mean to bring everyone down with my stories of my past.
Posted by AuntieMel on July 25, 2005, at 12:27:37
In reply to What goes through a child abuser mind *trigger*, posted by happyflower on July 23, 2005, at 18:02:55
I have no idea what goes through their minds while they are doing it.
It boggles the mind.
My father was much like your mother. Not quite as bad, but that's largely because he spent a lot of time ignoring us.
>>>How can they not remember any of this years later? They say, I don't know what I have done? I don't know why my kids don't talk to me?
They know. They just don't want to admit it, or they justify it as 'tough love' or somehow rationalize that it was ok. But they know.
Are they sorry? They are sorry that the world knows you won't be around them. Sometimes they even say they are sorry. But keep your kids away, or supervise them at all times because it's likely they won't change.
Your therapist is right. Keep away, certainly until you are strong enough to know her for what she is and not turn it back on yourself.
>>>Why do people judge me when I say I don't have a relationship with my mother?
It's their problem. Tell them she doesn't deserve a relationship.
>>>>>I think people rather have happyflower around instead of abusedflower.
I'm hearing angryflower, and rightly so.
So, back to your statement:>>>>My T says she is paying, by not having me or my brother in her life or her grandkids. But sometimes it just doesn't seem like it is payment enough.
Your therapist is right, but it's more than that. You have wonderful kids and are working to get past this and have a great life. Success is the best revenge.
And if she meets the same fate as my father, she will die a lonely old woman.
Posted by antigua on July 25, 2005, at 15:24:31
In reply to My childhood died, maybe a good thing, posted by happyflower on July 24, 2005, at 16:58:54
This is all a huge trigger for me. Part of me is so jealous that you've gotten to things that have taken me years to realize!! I'm glad for you, but oh it's so painful.
I think you're right about the grieving. Maybe you should honor it with a little ceremony of some kind--light a candle and let the old part go, something like that.
it's painful, I know, but you're doing great,
antigua
Posted by happyflower on July 25, 2005, at 18:27:43
In reply to Re: sorry about this post, maybe I should just shu » happyflower, posted by B2chica on July 25, 2005, at 10:21:20
> i actually liked what you wrote. you expressed it very well. it's what you felt, questions you have, NEVER be sorry for questions or for looking for answers Especially answers to help you heal.
>
> (fyi. my mother did the same sink or swimm with me, luckily i did bob to the top.)
>
> and i like both flowers. their the same and you and others sharing is the reason i come babble. help resolve my own issues, know i'm not alone, vent, cry, get support and give it.
> (((((HUGS))))) happy AND abused flower.
> b2c.
>
Thank you B2c! You are so sweet and kind and thanks for the hugs! How are you doing by the way?
> > I think people rather have happyflower around instead of abusedflower. I don't mean to bring everyone down with my stories of my past.
>
>
Posted by happyflower on July 25, 2005, at 18:32:51
In reply to Re: What goes through a child abuser mind *trigger » happyflower, posted by AuntieMel on July 25, 2005, at 12:27:37
> >
> My father was much like your mother. Not quite as bad, but that's largely because he spent a lot of time ignoring us.Wow, it seems like we have a lot in common. (unfortunatly)
>
> >>>>My T says she is paying, by not having me or my brother in her life or her grandkids. But sometimes it just doesn't seem like it is payment enough.
>
> Your therapist is right, but it's more than that. You have wonderful kids and are working to get past this and have a great life. Success is the best revenge.
>
> And if she meets the same fate as my father, she will die a lonely old woman.
>
Thanks Auntie! I think she will meet the same fate, but I really don't care! My T asked me one time what I would do if my mom was on her death bed and called to talk to me. I told him I would send her congratuations ballons. I know that sounds mean, but I will be happy when she is gone. I don't have to worry about my family or my kids.
Posted by happyflower on July 25, 2005, at 18:36:49
In reply to Re: My childhood died, maybe a good thing » happyflower, posted by antigua on July 25, 2005, at 15:24:31
> This is all a huge trigger for me. Part of me is so jealous that you've gotten to things that have taken me years to realize!! I'm glad for you, but oh it's so painful.
I am sorry this is triggering you, I too have read stuff that brings me right back to my stuff.
Please don't be jeolous of me, just believe in yourself. I am 35 yrs old, so it did take me quit awhile to figure all this out, and I still am learning. Maybe going through all this pain will make us such strong people for something good in the world.
> I think you're right about the grieving. Maybe you should honor it with a little ceremony of some kind--light a candle and let the old part go, something like that.I never thought about that, what a great idea! Thanks!
>
> it's painful, I know, but you're doing great,
> antiguaI hope you do well with your journey too. It is so hard but I am hoping there will be something good that comes out of it all. :)
Posted by happyflower on July 25, 2005, at 18:40:00
In reply to Re: I am so angry and sad » happyflower, posted by pinkeye on July 24, 2005, at 13:56:09
Thank you pinkeye for everything you have written. I am okay with you if you are okay with me. I just overreacted and I am sorry. This is something I am working on in therapy. I do care about you , maybe too much, because I got too upset. But I am okay. I had therapy today, and my T said it is good what I am feeling, even though it is painful. It shows I am making progress. I hope he is right. I hope you are all right too!
Posted by pinkeye on July 25, 2005, at 19:02:02
In reply to Re: I am so angry and sad » pinkeye, posted by happyflower on July 25, 2005, at 18:40:00
I enjoy your posts, and I like you. And I feel protective of you for the most part.. So I feel like you are my kid - a kid who is 7 years elder than me, but nevertheless a great kid :-))
Posted by happyflower on July 25, 2005, at 19:37:34
In reply to I am ok with you. You are like a kid to me !! :-) » happyflower, posted by pinkeye on July 25, 2005, at 19:02:02
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