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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 18 of 18. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by daisym on April 25, 2005, at 1:07:37
How do you use therapy when life gets really complicated? It feels like the world is caving in -- there is this huge work thing this week that will be awful and my husband is in the hospital until at least the middle of the week...and I have a humongous board meeting next Saturday. How can I even consider working deep in therapy?
I know the answer -- use therapy for support. I don't know how to "just" do that. The younger parts of me are hurting, screaming to be heard and comforted. I've been in executive mode for more than a week, and even this part of me is overwhelmed and tired.
When I got back from the hospital tonight, there was a message from my therapist, asking about my husband, telling me he was available if I needed him and that he would see me tomorrow. I cried. Because I missed his call. Because I just plain miss him. But then I thought, what on earth do I talk about tomorrow?
Sometimes I feel so trapped with no way out. I guess I hoped that all this work in therapy would help me figure out how to cope better. Somehow, instead, it feels like I just have more to cope with. I hear the pdoc in my head, "maybe this is the wrong time for you to be in therapy."
Maybe she is right. But it is too late to quit now. I can't stand the thought of it.
I hate this. Life was NOT supposed to be this hard.
(Speaker, I know you've been here. I hope you are reading. Tell me how you survived it.)
Posted by fallsfall on April 25, 2005, at 9:09:35
In reply to Using Therapy, posted by daisym on April 25, 2005, at 1:07:37
My advice would be to not plan your sessions. Try not to make a list of the things you want to talk about. Try not to rehearse how you would present them. Try not to anticipate what his response would be. Try to go into the session open to letting the session unfold however it needs to unfold today.
When you get in the room, sit down and breathe deeply. Then let your heart speak. And if you heart feels like changing topics in the middle of a sentance, let it. Don't control what you talk about or what you say - just let it be. What is important will come out. Trust yourself to know what you need, and trust your therapist to help you appropriately.
I find that I can fit a lot more into a session when I stop worrying about transitioning from one topic to another, and often the juxtaposition of ideas provide as much information as the ideas themselves. My therapist is able to follow these less structured, less orderly sessions. I think it is more like free association.
When I can do this, it means that I don't have to agonize about what to talk about or what to say. Deep down, I *know* what is important, what I need to clarify, what I need feedback on. It sounds like giving up control of the session, but it really isn't - it is giving control of the session to a different part of you.
Whatever you do, please try not to figure out what you "should" be talking about. Therapy isn't about what your therapist wants to hear, or what you think is socially acceptable, or even what you think (i.e. reason) is the most important. You will see him again tomorrow, if you run out of time today, you can continue then.
You get 2 sanity marbles for just going to therapy.
(((((Daisy)))))
Posted by Daisym on April 25, 2005, at 10:37:52
In reply to Re: Using Therapy » daisym, posted by fallsfall on April 25, 2005, at 9:09:35
yes, but...
The fear is I will just cry. The fear is I won't be able to talk for holding back the tears. The fear is it will be a bunch of insensitive complaining about a husband who is sick and how "I'm" the one who is suffering. I feel like a heel. (Note: NOT heAl...)
Maybe part of it is the uncertainty of sessions this week. But mostly it is this huge tidal wave of emotions that have been held and damned up for so long. I'm afraid I'll be washed away as they cut loose.
I guess when it comes right down to it, I'm afraid to feel.
(will you go with me?)
Posted by annierose on April 25, 2005, at 17:08:02
In reply to Re: Using Therapy, posted by Daisym on April 25, 2005, at 10:37:52
Dasiy -
I know what you mean when you say "I'm afraid to
feel". But as my T told me today, those feelings are already in there, just under the surface. We are feeling them whether we acknowledge they are there or not. And if we can "process that pain" with our Ts (for lack of a better expression right now) then, in theory, our psyches will be occupied with all these thoughts ... or something like that.And I agree with Falls. I hardly ever go into a session with something to say. I lie down, so I do take a few deep breaths, and try to listen to what thoughts my brain is jumping to. Sometimes I'll share those thoughts, or wait for another to come along. And the less I think, the more I can get out of a session.
Need to go,
Annierose
Posted by fallsfall on April 25, 2005, at 17:51:17
In reply to Re: Using Therapy, posted by Daisym on April 25, 2005, at 10:37:52
>The fear is I will just cry. The fear is I won't be able to talk for holding back the tears. The fear is it will be a bunch of insensitive complaining about a husband who is sick and how "I'm" the one who is suffering. I feel like a heel. (Note: NOT heAl...)
Maybe this is what you *need*
How did it go?
Posted by Poet on April 25, 2005, at 18:14:30
In reply to Using Therapy, posted by daisym on April 25, 2005, at 1:07:37
Hi Daisy,
I plan everything I'm going to say and then sit there in silence. I think Falls and Annierose have something in that maybe you shouldn't plan what to talk about. Just go and what comes out, whether it by crying or little Daisy needing comfort, is why you need to be there.
Big hugs to all the Daisies.
Poet
Posted by 10derHeart on April 25, 2005, at 21:47:53
In reply to Re: Using Therapy, posted by Daisym on April 25, 2005, at 10:37:52
>>(will you go with me?)
Well, I'm clearly not falls..but I would go with you if I could.
I'd hold any-age Daisy's hand - or not - whatever would help. I'd keep whispering how she/you were in the safest place in the whole wide world and it was ok ok ok to feel everything, 'cause you're not alone....
Daisy, you break my heart...in a good way, if that makes sense. Your honesty, vulnerability and beautiful spirit squeeze it so hard it feels like it's cracking a little.
And then to be so generous as to share such difficult stuff with all of us... Although in your case it's an understatement, I'll bestow upon you one of my all-time favorite things my wonderful ex-T. ever wrote to me in a email about part of our work together:
"Your courage in this area is remarkable."
And you know, I don't *share* such precious remarks from him with just anyone... You are an inspiration even if you feel like the bottom, back portion of a foot sometimes ;-)
Hope it went well and helped some.
((Daisy + her hubby))
Posted by littleone on April 25, 2005, at 21:55:22
In reply to Re: Using Therapy, posted by Daisym on April 25, 2005, at 10:37:52
I'm sorry to hear you're going through such a rough patch at the moment. I wish I could make it better for you.
I was thinking of you the other day after my session in relation to your post about just talking about the easier topics and avoiding the really hard one. And my thoughts are kind of carrying over to this thread too.
Over the last couple of months, I've actually been talking to my T a little (as in speaking, not just writing). But it usually isn't about important stuff. I'm only really comfortable speaking about work problems with him. I still need to do the other stuff in writing.
My T will often bring up the work stuff himself and get me talking on it, even if it isn't something that is bothering me on that particular day. I suspect he uses it to get the old vocal passages functioning then slip into a discussion about something else.
Anyway, I was telling him how I thought the work stuff had been talked to death already and I couldn't see how he could have been finding it interesting anyway.
He told me that the content wasn't important, it was the process that was important.
Now I get very confused here, but part of what he was saying was that when you small talk with someone (and all goes well), you feel accepted by the other person and you feel safe with them and a whole heap of other stuff. And I think he's using the process to build this stuff up and get me to form an attachment (geez, makes me sound like a barnacle).
I know that you are a lot further along the old attachment highway than what I am, but perhaps this could still help you a little.
If you really don't want to be delving into difficult waters in your therapy right now, you could still probably get a lot from talking about lighter subjects and gaining benefit from the process. Even if it is just to feel less alone in the world or to feel like someone understands.
If you do talk to your T about any of this, I'd love to hear what he says. I'm still really fuzzy and confused over the whole content vs process thing.
The other thing I wanted to say was that you could also use your sessions just to bawl or whinge or whatever and ask your T not to go too deep. Use them as a release so you function better outside of therapy.
It doesn't make you a bad person to whinge or bitch about someone. Especially if it then allows you to give needed care to that person without a build up of resentment.
By the way, I'm a big scaredy cat when it comes to feeling too. I wish therapy was easier than this.
Posted by daisym on April 26, 2005, at 1:04:00
In reply to Re: Using Therapy, posted by annierose on April 25, 2005, at 17:08:02
Thanks Annie, for the support.
yes, the feelings are there. But they are mixed up with the little kid "I can't do this" and the adult, "I have to do this." I don't know what to do with the feelings and all together it is too much to let out.
I think breathing deep and slow is an absolute must right now. Thanks for the reminder.
Posted by daisym on April 26, 2005, at 1:22:44
In reply to Re: Using Therapy » Daisym, posted by fallsfall on April 25, 2005, at 17:51:17
I realized I was terrified about 5 minutes before I got there. I asked myself why and realized that I was afraid he would be different, or that he wouldn't be there, or worse, that he wouldn't "feel" right -- senseless little kid thinking.
But he was there, and he "felt" the same. He said he missed me and talked about how long a week is. He also said he was glad I called him Thursday night, even though it was late. I was worried that he wouldn't be Ok with that, after all the emergency wasn't technically mine. We talked about the medical stuff, and the boys and how hard this is on them.
And I did tell him about the twinges of resentment and anger and how guilty I felt about those feelings. He seems to think that it is OK to have these feelings and to express them honestly, at least in the safety of his office. He challenges me to be less than the perfect care-giver. Said he'd like to see an actual tantrum about it all. His words of wisdom today were, "this sucks." Totally.
I floated away at one point, I think we were talking about anger, but even now I'm not sure that was it. He didn't push.
And he said therapy is still absolutely necessary. That I needed to carve out time for me, so that I didn't get lost in all of this. It struck a nerve I didn't even know I had -- I am scared of losing myself completely to this illness. He said he wouldn't let that happen, we had worked too hard to uncover this softer, more vulnerable side. That even though my husband is the one that is ill, I need care too. This is the only place I cried. He has a way of putting words to the feelings that haunt me.
It was so very hard to leave him today...
Posted by daisym on April 26, 2005, at 1:34:28
In reply to Re: Using Therapy » Daisym, posted by 10derHeart on April 25, 2005, at 21:47:53
"Your courage in this area is remarkable."
Your post made me cry -- OK, I was close to it anyway before I started reading but it was so nice and so beautiful. You can go with me anytime, especially in the tree-fort office.
Thank you for sharing your therapist's words. It means a lot to me. I don't know if I have courage, though I pray a lot for grace under pressure. I don't want to be bitter but sometimes it is hard not to question, "why?" Truthfully I'm more afraid of the long road ahead than I am about losing my husband. I'm trying to learn that I don't have to travel it alone and that I probably don't even have to be the guide on this path. But I feel so responsible for everything!Another narcissistic trait of mine.
Thanks for the support!
Posted by daisym on April 26, 2005, at 1:38:45
In reply to Re: Using Therapy » daisym, posted by Poet on April 25, 2005, at 18:14:30
Poet,
You always make me feel less alone. I didn't plan very much but I didn't cry very much either. I could feel all the younger parts straining to get what they needed but the adult just wouldn't let them cry much. I feel pretty selfish about having any bad feelings right now, this isn't/shouln't be all about me.
I told my therapist that I felt a little invaded. I knew we were going to talk about the medical stuff but it is hard not to resent it forcing its way into every conversatiion. Even in therapy.
Thanks for the hugs. I need them.
Posted by daisym on April 26, 2005, at 1:50:28
In reply to Re: Using Therapy (sorry, rather longwinded) » Daisym, posted by littleone on April 25, 2005, at 21:55:22
"I'm still really fuzzy and confused over the whole content vs process thing."
I get confused about that too sometimes. I'll say things like, "I feel like I'm avoiding hard therapy stuff by focusing in on "our" relationship and he always says, "this *is* a primary part of your therapy!"
It took me a long time to really attach and I would still describe my attachment as insecure. I'm clearly attached to him, I just don't trust that this is a good thing yet. I often say I hate process, but at least for me, I need to dump a content something out there and then process what I said or remembered. And it has happened that while we were chatting about this or that that we went to a place I never would have expected. Which can be scary but very productive.
My therapist believes strongly that the healing is in the relationship. And the relationship grows by spending time together and talking about real things. These things reveal a lot about who I am and what I think I should be. He needs the small stuff to build on and often he will help close out a session by working some small things into the discussion. Your therapist is right, it builds trust.
I'm glad you are able to talk more. Keep up the good work!
Posted by fallsfall on April 26, 2005, at 8:19:35
In reply to How it went » fallsfall, posted by daisym on April 26, 2005, at 1:22:44
You did really well. I'm glad he is insisting on continuing therapy during your husband's illness. You need and deserve to be taken care of yourself. You see him Tuesday, right?
>I feel pretty selfish about having any bad feelings right now, this isn't/shouln't be all about me.
Daisy, *therapy* IS and SHOULD BE all about you. When you leave therapy you need to take care of your family, but when you are *IN* a therapy session, it **IS** all about you. So that is the time when you can allow yourself to feel those "bad" feelings. Actually they are there all the time, but in therapy you can acknowlege them and let them direct your path. They are shut out during so much of your life, let them have their say during therapy. You are entitled to those feelings, even if you choose not to act on them in the "real" world.
>I could feel all the younger parts straining to get what they needed but the adult just wouldn't let them cry much.
I guess this is what I was trying to describe when I said that you should let whatever comes, come. If you can get the adult out of the way, and let your *soul* decide what to talk about... I guess it means giving control of yourself to your true self - not to any gatekeeper kind of function within your self. It took a lot of practice for me to be able to stop worrying about what he would think of me if I gave him my realtime thoughts. I worried that I would sound crazy, or completely discombobulated, that I wouldn't make any sense (which for me is about the worst that could happen). I was afraid he wouldn't know what I was talking about and that I wouldn't know what I was talking about either. It was so hard to be talking about something and have something flash in my mind and switch to that - even midsentance. But I have found that when I do that, the thing that has come into my mind is very much related to what I was talking about.
In a sense, it feels like a merging of our souls. Because I am letting him into my unprotected self. He is quiet during these sessions (until the end when he tries to tie it all together) - he doesn't ask for much clarification. I guess it feels like a deeper emotional holding. It lets the real me have company. What a powerful experience.
I know you still are afraid that you will be too much for him, that you will scare him away. But if you can feel your true self, I think that you will see that you are not overwhelming and scary - you are just you. You know how a cat will make her fur stand on end so that she looks bigger and scarier than she really is? That is the kind of armor you construct with your adult (and what I construct with the tension I bring into my therapy sessions). If you can let your fur lie peacefully, then he can hold you and pat you and comfort the cat under all the fur.
You do trust him to take care of you. Your fears are that you will hurt him. You won't hurt him. And he can take care of you. Let him.
I'll go with you if you want...
Posted by LadyBug on April 27, 2005, at 10:20:57
In reply to Re: How it went » daisym, posted by fallsfall on April 26, 2005, at 8:19:35
I'm a bit new here and I'm reading so much, I love it.
This thread has really touched me. I don't know you and your history. I don't know what your husbands illness is. I'm sorry that he is sick. It must be hard on you. I know your have kids and that is a hard job too. I have 2 daughters, 2 teen-agers, so I know what a challenge that is.
But I want to tell you all that I love what I have been reading. You are so good with words. Your thoughts about therapy and its process are great. Your T. somewhat reminds me of mine though mine is female. She is awesome. She give me a soft place to land and I need that.
Thanks for helping me as you try to understand yourself.
Keep up the faith and good work.
Hang in there.
LadyBug
Posted by daisym on April 27, 2005, at 23:42:55
In reply to Re: Your posts inspire me, posted by LadyBug on April 27, 2005, at 10:20:57
Thank you for the nice post and the encouragement. I have three teen boys myself, at least for another few days and then the oldest turns 20! (Wow - how did that happen?)
I hope you post often and continue to find babble helpful. I sure do.
Posted by Speaker on April 29, 2005, at 0:50:40
In reply to Re: Your posts inspire me » LadyBug, posted by daisym on April 27, 2005, at 23:42:55
Daisy,
I am so sorry you are going through this. I haven't been on the computer for several weeks and then tonight I thought about you and got on the board...I'm sorry I haven't gotten here quicker.
I want you to know it is harder to be the one standing next to the bed than it is to be in the bed. I always felt guilty for feelings...like I should be able to do better. However, my husband always agreed that it was worse on me and it was very hard for him to watch all that fell on me due to him being ill. I know for me it helped to have someone realize that (I didn't have a T then but I wish I would have) and it would have been better if it would have been a T. I wish I would have had someone to cry with...please feel free to do that as you will be better for that! It is ok if you just go to therapy to cry...remember you are paying him and he would feel better to see you trust him that way.
Please don't focus on tomorrow...just attend to one day at a time. I noticed your T said he was there for you if you needed him and when you were so sad you missed his call you didn
't call him back. Don't keep yourself from getting a bit of comfort when it is offered...I know that is hard to do.I got totally sick of people telling me how strong I was...it made me feel like I had to live up to their standard. People told me I was the glue in the situation...what presure! It is all so far out of anyone's control and that is the hardest thing to live with...so much to do and yet no control of the situation. Don't be so hard on yourself as all your feelings are very understandable and expected. This IS the time to be in therapy. You don't need to always work on the childhood stuff. Give yourself a break while you are taking care of children and hospital runs and working and cooking and laundry and, and, and!!! IT IS OK if it doesn't all get done. Believe it or not even work will go on if you don't get your stuff finished. You are a very competent person and it is hard to let thing go. I am the same way but I realized there is nothing I can't do but I can't do it ALL. Please allow your T to help...call him every day if it will help and I think it would help! Sorry this is getting long. If you would want me to e-mail you please give me your e-mail address and I will get back to you asap. I would love to talk on the phone if you are willing. It is hard for people who have not lived with illness to understand...they are very helpful but it's not the same. Please update me on how your husband is doing. My prayers are with you and your family. ((((Daisy))))
Take care,
Speaker
Posted by daisym on April 29, 2005, at 1:47:59
In reply to Re: Your posts inspire me, posted by Speaker on April 29, 2005, at 0:50:40
Marie,
I'm glad you respond to cosmic thoughts. :)
Things are up and down. He is still in the hospital, going on day 8. He is angry and wants to come home. Today the doc told me that he is suffering from steroid psychosis, which is why he is being so combative and is so confused. They promise this will go away as they discontinue the steroids. I hope so. It is hard to be supportive of someone who is yelling at you all the time. Today he told me he was going to call the police on the nurses if they didn't start treating him better. My eyes just filled up with tears because I didn't know what to say or do. The whole thing is impossible.
I am seeing my therapist a lot and I'm trying to be honest about how hard this all is. He tells me it is Ok to be resentful and angry. I think all of that is a waste of energy. I have a hard time letting anyone help out but I think I figured out today why that is. So if I can work on this I'll probaby be able to ask for help.
I'm glad you came back. How have things been?
This is the end of the thread.
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