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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 40. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Speaker on February 18, 2005, at 20:55:57
I went to therapy today and it was very interesting. I had found out that the T was sick but it was only monday not last week. I asked why he didn't return my calls last week and he said he just thought I wanted to change my appt. and he was only suppose to call if he had something else open up. I had told him about the death and the accident on the voicemail so he knew it was a hard time. He offered no appology and told me I must not have been that overwhelmed as I continued to take care of others not just go to bed. I have thought about it and I guess if I can do weeks like last week without his support then I really don't need him for therapy. Tuesday will be an interesting session as I may just quit. I will live with this decision for the weekend and see...I know I need to work through the csa but I need to know if I'm needy he will be there.
Posted by pinkeye on February 18, 2005, at 21:14:32
In reply to Follow up on not Trusting T., posted by Speaker on February 18, 2005, at 20:55:57
Many therapists absolutely don't encourage any form of dependancy. For two reasons - 1. It is bad for you in the long run 2. It is not good for them either.. if they allow each patient to get dependant on them and be available lots for each of the patient, then they will get drained out pretty heavily.
And it is not their job. All of us get confused here and expect that they will treat us like their own family member/friend and be emotionally available for you all the time, but in retrospect, you will be able to see certain things very clearly why your therapist acted the way he did.
Posted by Dinah on February 18, 2005, at 21:27:31
In reply to Follow up on not Trusting T., posted by Speaker on February 18, 2005, at 20:55:57
Woooooaaaaaa.
My most charitable thought would be that perhaps he's still sick and out of his mind with fever.
If he's not.... Wow. How grossly insensitive. Unless I missed something in context.
My therapist is not snuggly warm, but he wouldn't have said that in a billion years.
I'd be as angry as you are. If he has a good explanation that's great. I'm never one to cavalierly suggest that someone ditch their therapist. I'd try to work it out if at all possible.
But... Wow.
Is it possible he was trying to make you feel strong and competent?
Can you tell him how what he said made you feel?
Posted by pinkeye on February 18, 2005, at 21:31:59
In reply to Re: Follow up on not Trusting T. » Speaker, posted by pinkeye on February 18, 2005, at 21:14:32
I am going to take back what I said. I am sorry. I reread your post and given the accident and death that you encountered, what your therapist said seems insensitive. He could have definitely tried to word it better even if he didn't call back. It is kind of little inhuman given the context.
Sorry about that.. I didn't fully realize what you had gone through.> Many therapists absolutely don't encourage any form of dependancy. For two reasons - 1. It is bad for you in the long run 2. It is not good for them either.. if they allow each patient to get dependant on them and be available lots for each of the patient, then they will get drained out pretty heavily.
>
> And it is not their job. All of us get confused here and expect that they will treat us like their own family member/friend and be emotionally available for you all the time, but in retrospect, you will be able to see certain things very clearly why your therapist acted the way he did.
Posted by Shortelise on February 18, 2005, at 23:42:58
In reply to Follow up on not Trusting T., posted by Speaker on February 18, 2005, at 20:55:57
I don't like his reasons for not calling you back. I think they stink. Speaker, are you SURE you're hearing what he's saying or or are you hearing what you think he's saying? I am not doubting you - it's just a question that begs asking.
It sounds like he's really challenging your trust. I don't think I'd like that. I would be furious.
Hugs
ShortE
Posted by mair on February 19, 2005, at 6:31:12
In reply to Re: Follow up on not Trusting T. » Speaker, posted by Shortelise on February 18, 2005, at 23:42:58
i agree with the others; this stinks. My T would call it a total empathic failure - an instance where a T totally misunderstands what the client needs to feel cared for. It's not an issue of dependency - if your T thinks it is, he needs to explain that to you adequately. My T would definitely want me to point this out to her. She doesn't always get it when I first try to let her know that she's let me down in some way but she catches on pretty well if I persevere even a little, and since your relationship with him is important, you really have to get this sorted out.
It's all important grist for the mill. You process what you needed that you didn't get. Either he provides you an adequate explanation or he apologizes in a way which lets you know that he understands how he's hurt you.
Mair
Posted by Speaker on February 19, 2005, at 21:16:57
In reply to Re: Follow up on not Trusting T., posted by mair on February 19, 2005, at 6:31:12
Thanks guys! I have wondered as some of you suggested if I really heard him correctly. However, I have tried to give him the benefit and I just can't get any other read. I will talk to him and tell him how if I did so well though all of this without him then perhaps I don't need therapy. He has never been a warm fuzzy but thats not what I need or want. I have only called 3X in a year and a half so I'm sure he's not worried I would become too dependant...I just think he blew it big time. I know T's are human and I have no problem with a mistake but I want to know it was a mistake and not just plain rudeness. As you can tell I'm still trying to process this.
Posted by daisym on February 19, 2005, at 23:19:00
In reply to I've Been Thinking, posted by Speaker on February 19, 2005, at 21:16:57
You sound like you are being very logical about this. My feelings would be hurt, mostly because it is the message I've heard my whole life -- "you are so strong, look how well you cope".
My guess is you've heard this a bunch too. You just don't expect it to come from your therapist, you expect them to see past those defenses. I think you have every right to an explanation of what he was thinking, or not thinking. And if he didn't understand your distress, then he needs to be clear about what you should say.
This was something I had to learn too. I would leave these cryptic messages in my most professional voice and he would be blown away to find out I was suicidal. So we need to be clear as we can.
All that said, I'm sorry you have to go through this. You have enough on your plate without thinking about starting over in therapy. But I think you need and deserve more support than you are getting.
Hugs from me.
Daisy
Posted by Dinah on February 20, 2005, at 5:09:45
In reply to Re: I've Been Thinking » Speaker, posted by daisym on February 19, 2005, at 23:19:00
Hmmmm... Daisy is wise.
Posted by Dinah on February 20, 2005, at 5:10:16
In reply to Re: I've Been Thinking » daisym, posted by Dinah on February 20, 2005, at 5:09:45
Posted by mair on February 22, 2005, at 22:00:32
In reply to Follow up on not Trusting T., posted by Speaker on February 18, 2005, at 20:55:57
Posted by Speaker on February 22, 2005, at 23:02:57
In reply to What happened today? (nm) » Speaker, posted by mair on February 22, 2005, at 22:00:32
Well, I did talk to him and told him I was very disappointed that he didn't call. He said that I didn't ask him to call unless he could work me into his schedule...and he didn't have anything open. I told him his answering machine states leaave a message and he would return my call...not, unless I don't have the answer you want. I got not apology just a...why do you have such a hard time asking for what you want? He doesn't get me. I left the message and he had the opportunity of showing he cared about what was going on in my life...and he chose not to. I know he doesn't see it my way but it's like asking your husband for flowers and then getting them...it just doesn't mean the same. I know they are paid to care for us not "about us" and I will just accept that. Today's session was usless as I just couldn't talk...I feel like it doesn't matter what I say. I know that isn't right but why would I want to talk to someone who really doesn't care "about me". I'm sure I'll work though this but it will take me a while. Any suggestions are appreciated.
Posted by Shortelise on February 23, 2005, at 20:44:24
In reply to Follow-Up, posted by Speaker on February 22, 2005, at 23:02:57
Speaker, I just don't like this.
You are telling him what you need. You are telling him that when you call in a crisis, you need a call back.
Ok, so he wanted you to say on the telephone, please call me.
I just don't get what he's doing. I would like to think that he is focussing on your needs, and that you must in some way need this kind of "tough love". But do you? Do you need someone to keep his distance? Is there something in your history that might make you think he's doing this "for your own good"?
I would hate it. I would not have stayed in therapy if my T had been like this, but mine did telephone me, unasked. I needed that to eventually come to believe that he cared about me.
You aren't in termination, right? Now my T doesn't worry so much if he can't return a call the same day because I am seeing him less, being less involved in therapy, but he used to never fail to do so.
Speaker, I don't know what to suggest. If it were my T I would sit in his office and say "I hate this, I think you don't care about me, and I need to feel you care about me in order to trust you. I think you are not trying to help me trust you, and I don't understand why."
Hugs,
ShortE
Posted by daisym on February 24, 2005, at 0:07:18
In reply to Follow-Up, posted by Speaker on February 22, 2005, at 23:02:57
***I know they are paid to care for us not "about us" and I will just accept that.
I just can't accept that. I had a big long talk with my therapist today about exactly this. I might not trust that my intense feelings won't drive him away, but I do think he cares "about me." In fact, I think he cares about me, instead of "for me." Semantics maybe. But I want him to understand why I need to touch base with him when I'm having a hard day.
I agree with ShortE. Say exactly what she said to say. I'm interested in his answer.
Posted by fallsfall on February 24, 2005, at 8:07:01
In reply to Re: Follow-Up » Speaker, posted by daisym on February 24, 2005, at 0:07:18
OK. So what is the difference between "caring for" someone and "caring about" someone? Is caring "for" someone like taking care of them, while caring "about" someone is wanting good things for them?? I am so confused.
I was struck by that sentance in Speaker's post, as well. But my therapist said that he cared "for" me, but the way he said it, it meant that I was an individual (i.e. not just a generic client), and that the outcome for me - as an individual - was important to him. I'm not sure I really want to know about the difference - I kind of like the way I think it is...
Posted by Speaker on February 24, 2005, at 9:01:40
In reply to For vs. About, posted by fallsfall on February 24, 2005, at 8:07:01
As a nurse I look at my patients and I did what was needed to care for their illness and what was ordered by the Dr. However, since their hospital stays were so short I didn't develope a relationship enough to care about them. I think my T keeps a distance that he is willing to care for me but doesn't get close enough to care about me. I hope this makes sense! I know it does sound like semantics but it is totally different in my mind.
Posted by Daisym on February 24, 2005, at 10:23:44
In reply to Re: For vs. About, posted by Speaker on February 24, 2005, at 9:01:40
See -- I read is as
"Care For" -- have feelings for you"Care About" -- want what is best for you and care what happens to you.
Weird how we all hear different things.
Posted by Dinah on February 24, 2005, at 11:09:08
In reply to Re: For vs. About, posted by Daisym on February 24, 2005, at 10:23:44
My therapist seems to use them interchangeably. I think he uses "about" more often. He says it means more or less the same thing I mean when I say I love him. Feeling attached.
Posted by littleone on February 24, 2005, at 14:23:34
In reply to Re: For vs. About, posted by Speaker on February 24, 2005, at 9:01:40
I thought you meant his name was Dr. However :)
Posted by Speaker on February 24, 2005, at 14:39:23
In reply to Sorry to digress... :) » Speaker, posted by littleone on February 24, 2005, at 14:23:34
I love it!!! Actually, I think it's Dr. Whatever :) at times :). Thanks for the smile!
Posted by Aphrodite on February 24, 2005, at 15:10:52
In reply to Re: For vs. About, posted by Daisym on February 24, 2005, at 10:23:44
I want to be cared *for* and cared *about* and all the other prepositions. I want it all!!!!!
(I can be such a brat:)
Posted by Speaker on February 24, 2005, at 15:17:24
In reply to Re: For vs. About, posted by Aphrodite on February 24, 2005, at 15:10:52
I agree but I don't think it's being a brat. I think in order to really work on the tough stuff we need to be cared for and about. That is why I am questioning my T's ability to help me. I feel he keeps such a distance that he doesn't care about me but feels his job is to care for me though "the process".
Posted by Dinah on February 24, 2005, at 15:33:58
In reply to Re: For vs. About » Aphrodite, posted by Speaker on February 24, 2005, at 15:17:24
I felt like that for a long time, and I'm to this day not sure whether it was my stuff or his stuff that made me feel that way.
Posted by Speaker on February 24, 2005, at 16:16:53
In reply to Re: For vs. About » Speaker, posted by Dinah on February 24, 2005, at 15:33:58
I usually take responsibility in all relationships but for some reason I think they are trained to listen so he should understand.
I have been wondering how work is going for you this week?
Marie
Posted by mair on February 24, 2005, at 16:23:50
In reply to Re: For vs. About » Aphrodite, posted by Speaker on February 24, 2005, at 15:17:24
Maybe these are distinctions without differences. In order to "care for" the client, the therapist needs to figure out what the client's needs are and how they can be met.
What bothers me about your situation, is that regardless of whether he was justified in thinking that he didn't have to call you back, you've now told him how bad that made you feel, and I haven't heard that he's apologized at all for hurting you, even if it was entirely inadvertent. It all sounds pretty defensive. What I used to really hate was when my T would pass off any angry reactions I had to her as transference at work, as if that somehow absolved her of any responsibility. She'll still sometimes point out to me that something she did hurt me because it replayed some long ago hurt, and she'll sometimes defend whatever it was that she did, but she'll also express remorse that she didn't pick up on what I needed. At least she's acknowledging my hurt and its validity.
Has your therapist done anything here other than explain why he didn't think he had to call?
Mair
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