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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 7 of 7. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by TF on December 21, 2003, at 20:18:04
What is intelligence and how do you classify a person as being smart/intelligent?
I always used to make the mistake of equating intelligence to a person's ability to communicate, to get a point across, and hold fluid conversations. The thing I never realised, until I began my, maybe, third psychotic break down, is that a person can grasp an idea almost perfectly without (for some odd reason) being able to verbalise it. Does this mean they simply don't have the brain power to sort the ideas efficiently in their own minds or that their mind is over-working itself or using flawed methodology, resulting in poorly translated ideas? I used to be good at getting my points across verbally, in person, while speaking, but now I can only communicate my thoughts through writing and vaguely in a rambling format at that. Maybe this is a result of acquired methodology and laziness influencing the way I communicate. i.e. In writing, on the computer, I could always go back and correct my mistakes just as I make them, or go over them after the fact (after everything was written up). I think this may have made me prone to mistakes and very unclever foibles during live speech. Then, a few minutes later after I make a mistake, I think of just the right thing to say.
Who in the world actually believes that their intelligence is below standard? Who, without giving themselves an excuse in order to cope with it, can acknowledge just how slow/unclever/illogical they are? I think anyone that does accept their average or subaverage intelligence must be among the most well-adjusted people in the world. Or maybe that kind of self-honesty is'nt really to be praised, and should be expected of everyone.
Sometimes when I consider this or notice the ignorance of pseudo-intellectuals, I wonder if I'm really less intelligent than I was, or if I'm seeing things clearly for the fist time and now just making excuses to deal with it; overidealizing the person I think I was. Then everything else that has happened to my mind seems alot less drastic, maybe something as widespread as the early ravages of age (I'm 22) or an series of panic attacks that led to an acquired tendancy (maybe a coping mechanism) to be mentally inactive.
Don't mistake my coherent writing for intelligence... I just happen to know some pretty words and how to put them together. There's nothing special about that.
Venting: You know, one thing that really pisses me off are those people that follow intellectual pursuits simply for the sake of feeling superior. If you're going to read poetry, enjoy literature, and or study philosophy then fine, do it and be satisfied. There's no need to lay your obvious, simple and pathetic observations and inferences on everyone else in an attempt to make them think you're special. Nothing annoys me more than people who have a constant need to make others think they're special in this way. It's so friggin pathetic and infuriating to see people brutalizing perfectly good idealogy with their own, narrow perception of it's truth. And then they assume that they're the only blessed individuals that understand what it's truly about. It's times when I meet people like that that I wish I had my speaking ability back. There's no gift or talent more precious than the ability to tell someone they're stupid and show them how. Why does it seem that no one can smell their own $#!+?
This whole thing really sucks.
Posted by Kalamatianos on December 22, 2003, at 0:48:56
In reply to Intelligence, posted by TF on December 21, 2003, at 20:18:04
Posted by Karen_kay on December 23, 2003, at 0:25:04
In reply to Intelligence, posted by TF on December 21, 2003, at 20:18:04
I know what you're saying. And those people just talk circles around you. Never mind that they may know big words. The fact is that they may appear to be intelligent. But, do they always HAVE to look like they've come out on top? It's frustrating. But, take comfort in the fact that you can walk away knowing that you are in fact the better person. Just because a person can argue or get a point across isn't the measure of his/her worth. Big deal, so s/he can throw around a few fancy words. Well, my dog loves me. Chances are that person's dog can't stand him/her. It's hard to argue with a dog! And I know that a dog doesn't understand big words :)
But everyone tends to know exactly who this person is. And they know what s/he is doing. And eveyone tends to find him/her annoying. So, after that person makes his/her point, what I like to do is nod my pretty head in agreement and after s/he walks away walk up to the closest person around and say, "Can you believe that load of crap s/he just fed me? Like I'm supposed to change my whole life because John Deer told me so. What a jack a**!" Most people agree. If someone doesn't I wait until s/he walks away and I say the same thing again.
The world is full is psuedointellectuals. I think my goal in life is to not be one. I try my hardest to be sincere. I'm not always right, but I can admit it when I'm not and not get lost in my own words to cover my butt in the case that I'm wrong. But, I tend to find it more comical than frustrating. That's just my perspective... And when they talk, sometimes it is helpful to think of the voice of the school teacher from Charlie Brown.... Wawawawawa.. Wawawawwawa.. Maybe if you're like me, you'll even say it....
Posted by TF on December 23, 2003, at 8:44:05
In reply to Re: Intelligence » TF, posted by Karen_kay on December 23, 2003, at 0:25:04
The funny thing is that this person who set me off doesn't really know big words and how to use them... He just throws out these simple, worthless philosophical sentiments and random, common knowledge in an attempt to make us feel dumb, or imply that we don't know what he's talking about. He points to movies we're watching and says, 'You realise that's not a true story, don't you?'. I know I should laugh at that kind of stuff, but I lack the ability to convince him myself that he's an idiot... It's so frustrating. I just don't have the words or organisation of mind to come up with an arguement, and even if I did I'd probably never work up the resources to actually carry on the conversation aloud.
Kalamantianos- Ironically, I was a very humble person before this mental decay started happening. Now I'm always looking for reasons to think I'm better than others, intellectually, or putting others down in my own mind. It's probably because of all the times I've shown how stupid and out of my mind I am. I'm just trying to compensate.
It's really hard to laugh at yourself when everyone else is doing the same. I think the natural reaction is to go against the grain as far as that's concerned. If people don't think highly of me, I'm not content to be humble. That's all there is to it.
Posted by Karen_kay on December 23, 2003, at 10:54:14
In reply to Re: Intelligence, posted by TF on December 23, 2003, at 8:44:05
> The funny thing is that this person who set me off doesn't really know big words and how to use them... He just throws out these simple, worthless philosophical sentiments and random, common knowledge in an attempt to make us feel dumb, or imply that we don't know what he's talking about. He points to movies we're watching and says, 'You realise that's not a true story, don't you?'. I know I should laugh at that kind of stuff, but I lack the ability to convince him myself that he's an idiot... It's so frustrating. I just don't have the words or organisation of mind to come up with an arguement, and even if I did I'd probably never work up the resources to actually carry on the conversation aloud.
<<<<Ok, I hear what you're saying now. If your purpose is to make him feel stupid try something like this.... Next time he says, "You know this isn't a true story don't you?" try being sarcastic. Say, "Really? I didn't quite catch that. I thought I'd read something similar to this in the evening paper." If he continues either sit there and nod your head with a stupid grin on your face (which he should pick up on as being very sarcastic, or he'll just think you're very interested). And when he quits talking just say, "Oh no, please enlighten me. Tell me more from your fountain of knowledge." He'll either get so annoyed he'll walk away, or he'll be happy to have a captive audience. You know the meaning and that's all that's important!
> Kalamantianos- Ironically, I was a very humble person before this mental decay started happening. Now I'm always looking for reasons to think I'm better than others, intellectually, or putting others down in my own mind. It's probably because of all the times I've shown how stupid and out of my mind I am. I'm just trying to compensate.
><<<It is understandable. I went through a tough period with some meds, where I couldn't finish sentences and could barely remember where I lived. Forget humility. You just want to prove to yourself and others that you are intelligent! I know where you are coming from. But, judging by your posts, you are very intelligent. Maybe you are or aren't able to communicate it well verbally. Verbal communication isn't the whole story. And your close friends know it. That's all that matters. And you know it as well..
> It's really hard to laugh at yourself when everyone else is doing the same. I think the natural reaction is to go against the grain as far as that's concerned. If people don't think highly of me, I'm not content to be humble. That's all there is to it.<<<Why do you assume everyone's laughing at you? Trust me, people laugh at me quite often (and with good reason). I think the greatest lesson one can learn in life is to be able to laugh, especially at your own faults. I know it is frustrating when it comes to your verbal comprehension. Especially if you lose it. But, try it from a different angle. Can you be witty instead?
Posted by DaisyM on December 23, 2003, at 11:15:37
In reply to Re: Intelligence, posted by TF on December 23, 2003, at 8:44:05
The best advice I have for dealing with Know-it-alls is either complete silence (best!) OR simply say: "I'm not clear what you mean. Can you say that again?" Or simply respond with one word questions: "And?" "So?" "Point?"
Remember, it isn't about you. It is about their need to feel superior. I agree with Karen, your post indicates a level of intelligence and thoughtfulness. Some buttons are just more easily pushed than others. I too have a "thing" about being made to feel stupid. It doesn't happen very often but it really sets me off.
Posted by TF on December 23, 2003, at 11:18:46
In reply to Re: Intelligence » TF, posted by Karen_kay on December 23, 2003, at 10:54:14
Well, the thing with that guy (he's actually my brother that I live with, so this makes it much worse. Otherwise i'd have less trouble coping with my loss of intelligence.) is that he used to be the dumbest person I know and (probably unwisely on my part) the benchmark for my self esteem. He actually only did that movie thing once... but it's stuck with me and I regret not being able to say what I should have said. Now that he's getting into all this poetry and philosophy it's really annoying me. Especially now that I'm unable to converse about it, or say anything insightful. This sucks, because verbal communication/comprehension used to be the only area where I really shined. Now I'd say it's my worst type of intellgence, except maybe when I'm writing about how screwed up I am, and even then I'm just rambling and random. I have extreme difficulties reading and comprehending as well and as quickly as I used to. At least when it comes to things I'm interested in.
I used to be witty... Now I'm very slow and unclever. I've been going nuts trying to figure out what's causing all of these problems and have gone to some weird places. I think I have some kind of infectious disease, maybe a sinus infection that spread to my brain or lyme disease... For the past few months I've gotten the smell of puss in my nose whenever I blow out, and that's really freaking me out. The main problem here is that I don't have insurance or money to pay for the tests to figure out what's wrong with me. I guess I could go to school fulltime and get on my father's insurance, or get a job with insurance, but that's tough enough as it was before all this started happening. Thinking about the future really freaks me out when I look back on the past year and see the rate of mental decay I've had so far.
I've always had few, if any, friends. The fact that I relied on my own mind for company makes things worse now that it's been quiet for so long. The few friends that I did have were all borderline geniuses, so they got a bit weirded out by my ranting about my condition. Then, when my dullness started to show in conversation, I guess they began to think that they'd befriended someone that was already a dull idiot. I'm just not sure if they thought that all along or if it was something they just decided as it happened. Either that or they were just tired of hearing me badmouth myself, which would probably be more likely.
You gave some good advice, so thank you for the effort. I'm not entirely convinced that my problems are psychological, however. The only real psychological problem I think I have is coping with all of these changes and trying to respect myself.
This is the end of the thread.
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