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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by tabitha on December 14, 2003, at 17:00:33
In reply to Re: Chuckle... » tabitha, posted by crushedout on December 14, 2003, at 15:44:54
yes, it was very validating. I was thinking, wow, you mean it's OK to actually feel sad about what happened? It was like she was showing me the appropriate response, sort of corrective emotional mirroring, like parents are supposed to do for small children. All I could feel about the memory was shame, and shame on top of that for not being over it already.
Posted by Dinah on December 15, 2003, at 17:51:15
In reply to Re: Chuckle... » crushedout, posted by tabitha on December 14, 2003, at 17:00:33
Well now I have a dilemma. I told my therapist about this thread, and he says he *has* cried occasionally (very occasionally he later corrected it to say). He wanted to know why it would bother me if he did it with me, and I told him it would make me feel like I needed to censor what I said so as not to upset him.
But now that I know he's cried with others, no matter how infrequently, I feel mildly hurt that nothing I have said has touched him as much as his other clients. :( I figure this is one of those cases of therapist overdisclosure. I didn't really need to know he had been moved enough to cry by other clients.
Posted by crushedout on December 15, 2003, at 23:48:47
In reply to Re: therapist crying, posted by Dinah on December 15, 2003, at 17:51:15
ouch. did you tell him how it made you feel?
> Well now I have a dilemma. I told my therapist about this thread, and he says he *has* cried occasionally (very occasionally he later corrected it to say). He wanted to know why it would bother me if he did it with me, and I told him it would make me feel like I needed to censor what I said so as not to upset him.
>
> But now that I know he's cried with others, no matter how infrequently, I feel mildly hurt that nothing I have said has touched him as much as his other clients. :( I figure this is one of those cases of therapist overdisclosure. I didn't really need to know he had been moved enough to cry by other clients.
>
>
Posted by DaisyM on December 16, 2003, at 0:10:51
In reply to Re: therapist crying, posted by Dinah on December 15, 2003, at 17:51:15
I bet it had more to do with his personal "state" than the topic or person. For example --maybe he was really tired when his kids were little, or recently had lost someone and the topic in therapy came to close to home. Even hormones play in...I wouldn't read it like you did. You obviously have touch something in him or he wouldn't still be your therapist after all this time!
Posted by Dinah on December 16, 2003, at 9:27:51
In reply to Re: therapist crying » Dinah, posted by crushedout on December 15, 2003, at 23:48:47
Yeah, I told him. He said it very very rarely happened. And maybe he was thinking about group situations, not therapy situations. Maybe therapy situations gave him some extra structure so that he might feel like crying but didn't. And he said that yes, his wince was quite genuine and not due to a leg cramp or anything, and tried to put on an empathetic face to show me that he remembered the incident.
Overall, it reminded me just why I trust him so much. He is really rotten and unconvincing as a liar.
Posted by crushedout on December 16, 2003, at 9:32:43
In reply to Re: therapist crying » crushedout, posted by Dinah on December 16, 2003, at 9:27:51
> Yeah, I told him. He said it very very rarely happened. And maybe he was thinking about group situations, not therapy situations. Maybe therapy situations gave him some extra structure so that he might feel like crying but didn't. And he said that yes, his wince was quite genuine and not due to a leg cramp or anything, and tried to put on an empathetic face to show me that he remembered the incident.
>
> Overall, it reminded me just why I trust him so much. He is really rotten and unconvincing as a liar.ooh, that *is* a good quality. you're a lucky woman.
Posted by Dinah on December 16, 2003, at 9:34:50
In reply to Re: therapist crying » Dinah, posted by DaisyM on December 16, 2003, at 0:10:51
Yes, perhaps so. And perhaps it was countertransference on his part. That it wasn't that he cared about them more, but that they were discussing things that brought up painful issues from his own past.
He has often said that he would have to feel caring for me to work with me for so long, or maybe that was after working with me so long - something like that. I guess maybe that's true. I always tend to see myself as a barnacle with the relationships I care about, so that he really would have had a hard time shaking me. :)
I might bring it up again briefly to tell him I spent some time trying, and failing, to think of moving incidents from my past. Which makes me feel like a huge fraud. What right do I have to take up therapy space when I have none?
Posted by crushedout on December 16, 2003, at 9:41:03
In reply to Re: therapist crying » DaisyM, posted by Dinah on December 16, 2003, at 9:34:50
you know, dinah, it could also be your personality. i mean, you have a certain edge to you, this dry wit/sarcastic edge, that may make you seem less pathetic than, for example, i tend to be in therapy. which may make people less apt to cry. but that doesn't mean they care less. you know what i mean?
> Yes, perhaps so. And perhaps it was countertransference on his part. That it wasn't that he cared about them more, but that they were discussing things that brought up painful issues from his own past.
>
> He has often said that he would have to feel caring for me to work with me for so long, or maybe that was after working with me so long - something like that. I guess maybe that's true. I always tend to see myself as a barnacle with the relationships I care about, so that he really would have had a hard time shaking me. :)
>
> I might bring it up again briefly to tell him I spent some time trying, and failing, to think of moving incidents from my past. Which makes me feel like a huge fraud. What right do I have to take up therapy space when I have none?
>
>
Posted by Karen_kay on December 16, 2003, at 9:54:32
In reply to Re: therapist crying » Dinah, posted by crushedout on December 16, 2003, at 9:41:03
Just a thought.. Have you ever cried during a session? That may also have soemthign to do with it as well. I mean that if someone is so distraught about a particular issue that they are moved to tears, it may have caused him to react the same way. You do tend to be rather dry, therefore I don't really see you crying much during therapy. I could be wrong granted... But, I understand exactly how you feel. I see how it hurts that you've spent so much time with your therapist and haven't seen the range of all of his emotions.
And you do have the right to "take up therapy space" as you put it. Every person's issues varies in degree. And it sounds like you are making progress with your therapist. Don't let it get you down because your therapist hasn't cried. He said that it has happened very rarely. I suspect on your last day (GASP!) he'll cry to see you leave!
Posted by Dinah on December 16, 2003, at 9:58:15
In reply to Re: therapist crying » Dinah, posted by crushedout on December 16, 2003, at 9:41:03
I'm not the same person at all in therapy. I'm a pathetic mewling whining grasping dependent little worm. Especially mewling and dependent. I absolutely disgust myself sometimes. I walk out of therapy nearly every session saying "I am NOT going to do that next time" but guess what?
I told him what you guys said on this thread, because I was frankly delighted, and he appeared nonplussed. I guess he couldn't relate it to the whimpering and humorless wretch who presents herself each week to therapy.
I will however admit that for my first five to six or seven years of therapy, I was pretty out of touch with my emotions. I rarely cried. It's possible that by the time I got in touch enough with my own emotions to make my stories affecting, he had heard them all before.
Posted by crushedout on December 16, 2003, at 10:02:40
In reply to Re: therapist crying » crushedout, posted by Dinah on December 16, 2003, at 9:58:15
i'm sorry what was it you told him we said that you were delighted about? i'm confused.
> I'm not the same person at all in therapy. I'm a pathetic mewling whining grasping dependent little worm. Especially mewling and dependent. I absolutely disgust myself sometimes. I walk out of therapy nearly every session saying "I am NOT going to do that next time" but guess what?
>
> I told him what you guys said on this thread, because I was frankly delighted, and he appeared nonplussed. I guess he couldn't relate it to the whimpering and humorless wretch who presents herself each week to therapy.
>
> I will however admit that for my first five to six or seven years of therapy, I was pretty out of touch with my emotions. I rarely cried. It's possible that by the time I got in touch enough with my own emotions to make my stories affecting, he had heard them all before.
Posted by Dinah on December 16, 2003, at 10:03:59
In reply to Re: therapist crying.Dinah, posted by Karen_kay on December 16, 2003, at 9:54:32
Last day???!!!!!
There'll be no last day. :)
Either he'll die or I'll die, of natural causes of course. That's not a threat or anything. lol.
And if he retires or moves or whatever, I've told him the second he tells me, he's ceased to be my therapist and I'm out of there. No termination phase discussion of him abandoning me for me! How can you discuss your abandonment with the jerk who's abandoning you? I asked him to have an escort bring me directly to the hospital, and I'm not sure if I hope he'll remember.
Ummm.... All this only applies to me of course. I'm in full favor of everyone else going through a meaningful termination phase and getting referrals to other therapists.
Posted by Dinah on December 16, 2003, at 10:04:36
In reply to Re: therapist crying » Dinah, posted by crushedout on December 16, 2003, at 10:02:40
Posted by crushedout on December 16, 2003, at 10:52:29
In reply to Re: the dry humor thing. :) (nm) » crushedout, posted by Dinah on December 16, 2003, at 10:04:36
Posted by LostGirl on December 16, 2003, at 11:13:02
In reply to Re: therapist crying, posted by crushedout on December 14, 2003, at 14:02:31
This is a great topic.
I could not cry my whole adult life. In therapy with my first therapist, I remembered how as a small kid my mother used to say "stop crying or I'll give you something to cry about" and remembering that clicked. I had thought there was something wrong with me because I never cried. Like I could be at a sad movie and everyone is crying, and I would get the plot, but not have that reaction. Then, when I would talk about childhood incidents, from time to time my therapist would look on the verge of crying. At times he would wipe the corner of an eye once. His showing his reaction so genuinely touched me and showed me that these things were sad, and worth being taken seriously, rather than dismissed. Then I got to the point where now and then I felt I was on the verge of being on the verge of crying. And eventually, with him, I started to occasionally cry. For the first time in about 30 years. His gentle warmth and sensitivity meant a tremendous amount to me because it was what let me be able to look at things differently and stop thinking I always have to be tough and strong and just put aside and deny anything that is upsetting. I never knew I was afraid to be vulnerable, but him letting himself show that, allowed me to learn to feel vulnerable feelings.
However, down the line, he messed up in another way. Now I am with a cold fish therapist, and she drives me nuts because she always has this stupid grin on her face no matter what I'm talking about and now I'm back to not really being able to get feelings out, am bottled up again.
Posted by Karen_kay on December 16, 2003, at 13:29:43
In reply to Re: therapist crying » Karen_kay, posted by Dinah on December 16, 2003, at 10:03:59
Glad to see you keep an open mind when it comes to reaching an end point in regards to therapy.. Ha ha! I wish I could keep my therapist for the rest of my life, but I'm afraid he'd tire of me. Alas, I fear he's already tired of me. No, I doubt he's tired of me. I'm intelligent, beautiful and articulate. And I pay my bill on time. I would think he'd want to keep me around forever, as long as I continue to show signs of improvement. Hmmmm.... if only I weren't leaving this blasted town soon... Maybe could talk my daddy into leaving too? Not likely.
Posted by Dinah on December 16, 2003, at 13:36:47
In reply to Forever therapy for all??, posted by Karen_kay on December 16, 2003, at 13:29:43
Are you leaving the area soon?
Posted by Karen_kay on December 16, 2003, at 13:39:35
In reply to Re: therapist crying, posted by LostGirl on December 16, 2003, at 11:13:02
I talked to him again about crying. Told him I'd been crying all week, but because of birth control pills (go figure!). I told him I'd be touched if he cried, but if he sobbed I'd be overwhelmed. He said it's because my emotions are numb at this point (duh!) and I don't know how to react to displays of emotion. He told me he would try not to cry. Now I feel bad because I almost want to see him cry. I'm certain I do want to see him cry. Not just out of curiousity, or to make sure "he cares about me", but also to validate the fact that it is ok to cry. Why do I always have to open my big mouth? Oh well, guess I can't have it both ways.. Maybe if I start crying, he'll follow suit. He already told me he's a crybaby. He said he cries during commercials. He said his daughter asked him once during a commercial, "Daddy, is that Baby Jesus?" and he started crying. He sounds like a perfect daddy, doesn't he?
Posted by Karen_kay on December 16, 2003, at 14:20:58
In reply to Re: Forever therapy for all?? » Karen_kay, posted by Dinah on December 16, 2003, at 13:36:47
Relatively soon. I have a year and a semester left in school before I graduate. And with my major, there aren't any available jobs in the market in this area. Not that I would want to stick around this area anyway (other than for my therapist :) But, hopefully by then I won't feel so attached. Or maybe I'll feel more attached? Oh no! I've already had this talk with him. I told him that if I needed him in the future, I would drive an hour a week to see him. But, that's the furthest I could do. He said if I move further than that, I would be able to find someone else. I don't want anyone else :(
Posted by DaisyM on December 17, 2003, at 1:21:17
In reply to Re: therapist crying » DaisyM, posted by Dinah on December 16, 2003, at 9:34:50
<<<I might bring it up again briefly to tell him I spent some time trying, and failing, to think of moving incidents from my past. Which makes me feel like a huge fraud. What right do I have to take up therapy space when I have none?
>>>Don't you think this might be a reason TO take up therapy space? I'm sure you aren't a fraud. And many people would applaud your ability to leave the past in the past. Can you react *emotionally* to an event vs. *intellectually* "in the moment" as they say?
I typically use my brain before my heart. As in I try to solve the problem instead of just being there for someone. I'd make a terrible therapist!
Posted by Bell_75 on December 17, 2003, at 7:29:15
In reply to Re: therapist crying » Dinah, posted by DaisyM on December 17, 2003, at 1:21:17
> <<<I might bring it up again briefly to tell him I spent some time trying, and failing, to think of moving incidents from my past. Which makes me feel like a huge fraud. What right do I have to take up therapy space when I have none?
>
> >>>Don't you think this might be a reason TO take up therapy space? I'm sure you aren't a fraud. And many people would applaud your ability to leave the past in the past. Can you react *emotionally* to an event vs. *intellectually* "in the moment" as they say?
>
> I typically use my brain before my heart. As in I try to solve the problem instead of just being there for someone. I'd make a terrible therapist!
>
>
>In last weeks session my therapist mentions that he believes i double up on alot of emotions. Meaning, I feel guilty about being depressed, I'm depressed about feeling guilty, I have anixety about having depression etc etc
I didn't notice this till he mentioned it and I now see what he means by this. I recalled him telling me this when you mentioned how you put your head before your heart.
I often feel guilty in therapy and say things like "oh but I'm just being a whinger" or "I probably sound like such a complainer". When he said to me one dose of depression is more than enough for one person I couldn't agree more. Yet, I still can't bring myself to accept that I'm not "whinging" or "complaining" when I'm talking about current issues that are making me unhappy or even past ones.
Maybe I'm just getting too much off the point now as I say this, just thought I'd share with you my little piece :)
btw, just stumbled upon this board tonight.
You guys rock! I'm so relieved to hear/read that I'm not alone in all this.
As for the issue of therapists crying? well I sorta moreso have the paranoia that because i know my therapist does stand up comedy he'll use an incident ive told him as material. He sort of chuckles when i suggest that but in the back of my mind there's the lingering thought of being a joke for a public audience.
Anyway, thats another story all together :P
Much love and hugs to everyone xoxox
Posted by Karen_kay on December 17, 2003, at 10:02:37
In reply to Re: therapist crying » DaisyM, posted by Bell_75 on December 17, 2003, at 7:29:15
That would scare me a bit as well. You know he has plenty of jokes to crack. I would have to go to a show (or 5) and sit in the audience to see how he does. My problem would be that I would tell him how much he sucks (if he does) at the next session! But, I guess we all have problems, right?
I guess he can't use his clients as material, but you'd think he at least uses his profession... Strange. Does he at least crack a few jokes during the session?
I just can't get over this. I'll be asking you a few more questions in the future as they come to me, if that's ok? :) I'm fascinated!!!Karen
Posted by DaisyM on December 17, 2003, at 15:49:30
In reply to Re: therapist crying » DaisyM, posted by Bell_75 on December 17, 2003, at 7:29:15
Hi and I'm glad you found us. Are you on East Coast or West Coast time?
I think it sounds like your therapist had a good insight about doubled up emotions. I've never thought of them that way either.
He certainly has chosen and interesting way to deal with his job stress! I wouldn't worry. I'm sure he doesn't use his clients as material.
I, unlike Karen, would NEVER, go and watch though. It would just be too hard to go back the other way!
Posted by Bell_75 on December 18, 2003, at 4:32:03
In reply to therapist a comedian? » Bell_75, posted by Karen_kay on December 17, 2003, at 10:02:37
> That would scare me a bit as well. You know he has plenty of jokes to crack. I would have to go to a show (or 5) and sit in the audience to see how he does. My problem would be that I would tell him how much he sucks (if he does) at the next session! But, I guess we all have problems, right?
> I guess he can't use his clients as material, but you'd think he at least uses his profession... Strange. Does he at least crack a few jokes during the session?
> I just can't get over this. I'll be asking you a few more questions in the future as they come to me, if that's ok? :) I'm fascinated!!!
>
> Karen
LOL, of course I don't mind :D
Actually, Ever since I found out that he does stand-up comedy I've been waiting for him to crack a joke alas its usually me that always is. He takes me seriously (i have a rather warped sense of humour) then I say "I was joking" heheh.
I actually dont know where he does his rountines and I feel like it would be prying too much if I asked. I told him a rather funny but embarassing story about an incident at the hairdressers that happened reccently and after *his* laughter subsided I looked at him with paranoia and said
"now you've got me worried that you'll use it for material" he laughed then said "well yeah..i could say..there's this girl I know".
Eeek! but he said he wouldn't.
But till this very day (and i have a session tomorrow at 1) I'm still waiting for him to say something genuinely funny or just ANY joke.
He's got a lot of tv stereotypes to live up to eg Jerry Seinfield, Ray Romano etc
Bring on the funnies!
I find it abit fascinating/unusual that someone who works in such a serious profession and has to be able to stay composed whilst hearing some pretty horrific stories would be able to totally switch 'personalities' and get on a stage and tell jokes. Also in person he seems like a very serious, matter-of-fact, reserved person but hey...I've managed to get him to crack a smile a few times with my lame jokes heheh.So, whatever you wanna know...ask away.
Posted by Bell_75 on December 18, 2003, at 4:42:24
In reply to Re: therapist crying » Bell_75, posted by DaisyM on December 17, 2003, at 15:49:30
I don't know what coast's time I'm on if you mean American cause I live in Australia. Sorry.
As for my therapist, I think you're probably right that he uses it as a way to unwind/de-stress because its a rather demanding and serious profession. He's a nice guy though and I think the fact that hes got a strong sense of humour like me we get on well.
Sometimes I even manage to put one over his head when I say a joke mid-sentence and he cant find the funny part till I point it out heheh.:) its a breath of fresh air to be able to confide in someone and have a few laughs each session.
A good laugh is something every person with depression definately can't get enough of.
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