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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 26. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by DaisyM on December 8, 2003, at 20:30:19
I went to my appointment feeling so conflicted today -- tell the good stuff? tell the bad stuff? Part of me wanted him to see that I'm doing better. Part of me wanted him to know I've been falling apart since Friday.
I told him about both parts butI feel like I "babbled" my way through it. Some of these highly anxious painful feelings have risen again but without a specific trigger that I can find.
He wanted to know if it was because he had to cancel unexpectedly last week -- is that possible? I thought I had dealt with and put away many of these "needy" feelings -- could they be emerging as anxious now?
It was a painful session -- trying to give a voice to this sufficating anxiety that is free-floating again. I kept looking at my watch and he kept saying, "we have time, stay with it." He suggested next time he would help me "find these feelings, sink into them and identify what is behind them." He promised to be there with me. Why am I so terrified?
My homework is to answer the question of what could possible happen by allowing myself to completely feel these feelings? Answer: the "me" that is still "me" gets swallowed up or breaks apart...What if I'm not brave enough? :(
Posted by Kara720 on December 8, 2003, at 21:44:30
In reply to I Babbled, posted by DaisyM on December 8, 2003, at 20:30:19
I am not sure about you but I know when my therapist cancelled one week I started to feel anxious because I realized I had been looking forward to the meeting, and then I started to say to myself "oh my god I am being dependent on therapy." I realized I was holding on to it as my security blanket and I got scared when I was going to wait a few more days. I try as much as I can to stop myself in my train of though and say, "I am not goingto worry about how I will feel tomorrow. I will think about how I am feeling right now." Unfortunately that is usually uncertain.
Posted by Speaker on December 8, 2003, at 23:07:50
In reply to I Babbled, posted by DaisyM on December 8, 2003, at 20:30:19
DaisyM,
I spend most of my sessions rambling...at least now you have given me a new word "babble" ;). Dinah posted an article a few days ago that really helped me see why I get anxious with change in any part of therapy. I explains about healthy secure dependency. I have always had to be a survivor alone and to allow myself any dependency was scary and I thought wrong. It was so helpful to read the article and see I was healthy at least in one area of life :). Let me know what you think about the article and I hope it helps you. http://www.trauma-pages.com/steele-2001.htm (sorry I couldn't get it to drag in)
Posted by Dinah on December 9, 2003, at 1:56:29
In reply to I Babbled, posted by DaisyM on December 8, 2003, at 20:30:19
> I thought I had dealt with and put away many of these "needy" feelings -- could they be emerging as anxious now?
It has been my own experience that when I "put away" any of my feelings, they frequently emerge as anxiety. So that as I got more in touch with my feeling self, I had a reduction in symptoms of my OCD. Or perhaps as I gained control over my OCD, my feelings emerged. Something like that. :)
Even now, when I'm in rational get things done (would that be ANP?) mode, I get far more anxiety than I do when I'm actually feeling my emotions.
But maybe that's just me...
>
> It was a painful session -- trying to give a voice to this sufficating anxiety that is free-floating again. I kept looking at my watch and he kept saying, "we have time, stay with it." He suggested next time he would help me "find these feelings, sink into them and identify what is behind them." He promised to be there with me. Why am I so terrified?
>
> My homework is to answer the question of what could possible happen by allowing myself to completely feel these feelings? Answer: the "me" that is still "me" gets swallowed up or breaks apart...What if I'm not brave enough? :(
>
>It sounds as if you're in good hands. :) But it is scary to be open with yourself, and even more so to let someone else in. Does it sound odd to say you can honor that fear while still weighing the pros and cons of setting it aside? What are the potential benefits of doing what your therapist asks? What safety does your fear provide?
I'm afraid I allow myself the safety of my fears too often. It's hard for me not to do that.
Posted by fallsfall on December 9, 2003, at 6:21:21
In reply to I Babbled, posted by DaisyM on December 8, 2003, at 20:30:19
"He promised to be there with me"
He's not asking you to go alone. He will go with you and keep you together. You can go at YOUR pace, and he'll go with you.
If you "dealt with and put away" those needy feelings, I can understand that they aren't done yet. "Putting Away" to me means burying. You dealt with them enough to be able to put them away - but that is different from eradicating them. Yes, they are probably still there, but less strong since you dealt with them once. This will be twice - remember you are stronger and they are weaker than the last time - plus you have his strength in addition to your own. It's like he is your armor - grab your sword and vanquish the beast!
(hmm... 4 hours sleep.......)
You did really well! Don't give up.
Posted by DaisyM on December 9, 2003, at 10:05:23
In reply to Re: I Babbled » DaisyM, posted by fallsfall on December 9, 2003, at 6:21:21
Middle of night crisis-clarity says that part of my fear is that he got sick...and I deal with so much illness in my life. Trusting someone else who went and got sick on me feels really scary. He asked me yesterday how I felt about him cancelling and I didn't think it bothered me. But maybe...
So how do I allow an exploration of the anxiety that perhaps has been triggered again by a dependency issue? -- I read the article twice. I am definately insecurely attached. It isn't like he could help it, or did it on purpose. (I don't know if I'm telling you guys this or myself.)
He asked me what I needed from him...I said I didn't know. I still don't. :(
Thursday seems so far away.
Posted by fallsfall on December 9, 2003, at 10:49:53
In reply to Re: I Babbled » fallsfall, posted by DaisyM on December 9, 2003, at 10:05:23
You tell him exactly what you know: That his cancelling the appointment may be activating fears that you have when people get sick. That you read the dependency article and you think that you are insecurely attached - what does he think? Is there something that the two of you can do to change that?
That will start the discussion. It should flow from there.
"It isn't like he could help it, or did it on purpose"
No one is "at fault" if you are insecurely attached. If the two of you think that it would be healthier for you to be securely attached, then that is something that you can work on together.
Just give him the thoughts that you have about all of this and go with the intention of bravely going a little past your comfort zone - and know that he will be with you to keep you safe. I think you are doing great.
(Mine just moved my appointment up 5 hours so I only have 46 hours to go!)
Posted by DaisyM on December 9, 2003, at 13:21:18
In reply to Re: I Babbled, posted by Speaker on December 8, 2003, at 23:07:50
I read the article -- twice. I am definately insecurely attached. I find this really interesting because I did part of my thesis on attachment in infants but never clued in to how trauma might result in an attachment issue as an adult.
In therapy, I've identified that one of my major issues is trust. Not like, "I don't trust you because you might steal something...I'm actually quite the Pollyanna in this area. I think everyone will "do the right thing." But trusting someone with my feelings, or to be able to support me -- no way.
My Therapist says its very primal with me, I don't trust "trusting". Which makes all of this so incredibly hard.
How have you been able to overcome your "survivor alone" mind set?
Posted by DaisyM on December 9, 2003, at 13:25:36
In reply to Re: I Babbled, posted by Kara720 on December 8, 2003, at 21:44:30
This is definately part of it. Thanks for sharing. I've actually said that it makes no sense (for me) to depend on someone who eventually isn't going to be there. So I resist and tell myself that I won't let myself need him.
And then this tini-tiny, little voice whispers, "its to late...you already do."
:(
Posted by DaisyM on December 9, 2003, at 13:39:09
In reply to Re: I Babbled » DaisyM, posted by Dinah on December 9, 2003, at 1:56:29
<<It sounds as if you're in good hands. :) But it is scary to be open with yourself, and even more so to let someone else in. Does it sound odd to say you can honor that fear while still weighing the pros and cons of setting it aside? What are the potential benefits of doing what your therapist asks? What safety does your fear provide?
>>Yeah, I think I'm in good hands too...even though he is asking me to do something really hard. But he acknowledged that it is hard for me. He also provided some reassurance yesterday about these periods of overwhelm being normal...and that he would see me through it.
As far as the fear goes - I think it protects how much of myself I actually share, which protects how much of me actually is exposed to potential hurt. I kept so much stuffed down for such a long time, every layer is coated with fear so I have to revisit the fear everytime we go to the next level. Which means reaffirming that he "can take it".
The benefits to exploring the anxiety might be that it helps reduce it or even eliminate it. Maybe there is something left to say, something I'm not conscious of yet. This is of course also the reason to not go there.
*sigh* How did you ever get in touch with your feelings and not drown in them?
Posted by DaisyM on December 9, 2003, at 13:51:44
In reply to Re: I Babbled » DaisyM, posted by fallsfall on December 9, 2003, at 10:49:53
I know this is ridiculous but I don't want to make him feel bad...
I mean, what does it say about me that I'm upset that someone got sick? How self-centered is that?!
This is my head arguing with my gut again of course. I'm also asking myself if this isn't something to focus on, to keep the discussion on, so we don't have to go back to the hard topics.
*sigh* Maybe Thursday is actually coming too soon.
Posted by Dinah on December 9, 2003, at 13:56:50
In reply to Re: I Babbled » fallsfall, posted by DaisyM on December 9, 2003, at 13:51:44
If it helps any, you weren't upset that he was sick. You were upset that your schedule was interrupted. A completely different thing. My therapist is going away for two? weeks around Christmas with his family. I'm really glad for him that he will be able to relax and bond with his loved ones. I'm really upset that I won't see him for so long. I'm glad his needs are being met. I'm upset that my needs won't be.
Being upset that your needs weren't met doesn't need to have anything to do with any compassion or good feelings you have for him.
(And be glad he didn't come in. Mine came in sick today, coughed all over the place, and I'm expecting the flu in about a week.)
Posted by Dinah on December 9, 2003, at 14:05:39
In reply to Re: I Babbled » Dinah, posted by DaisyM on December 9, 2003, at 13:39:09
> *sigh* How did you ever get in touch with your feelings and not drown in them?
Oddly enough, my feelings were so happy that I was finally listening to them, it was such a relief to have them out, that they behaved relatively well and stayed within controllable levels. :)
Which is not to say that from time to time I don't wish that I had never ever gotten in touch with them and instead had remained anxious and emotionless.
My view of myself is so different now than it was even when I first came to the board. I used to really seriously wonder if I had Asperger's. Now I still think I have some neurological differences that often accompany Asperger's, but I am so completely different now than I was.... I was just very much an "Apparently Normal Personality" I suppose :).
Posted by Dinah on December 9, 2003, at 14:06:07
In reply to Re: I Babbled, posted by Dinah on December 9, 2003, at 14:05:39
Posted by Speaker on December 9, 2003, at 15:29:32
In reply to Re: I Babbled » Speaker, posted by DaisyM on December 9, 2003, at 13:21:18
We must be a lot alike! I have the same trust issues...I trust things with anyone but when it comes to knowing my thoughts and feelings- no way, and if I did trust them they probably wouldn't be interested anyway. I have a medical background and from your thesis project I wondered if you too have a medical background. As far as the surviving alone issue...I am still working but therapy has helped me and realizing that I wasn't doing that well with the PTSD stuff alone kind of pressed the issue.
Posted by Speaker on December 9, 2003, at 15:40:29
In reply to Re: I Babbled » DaisyM, posted by Speaker on December 9, 2003, at 15:29:32
DaisyM,
For me I think it does make me apprehensive when someone I count on gets sick. I have had a life of caregiving and in therapy I thinks its my turn for someone else to be the caregiver. When they get sick I get scared that I might loose that.
Posted by Karen_kay on December 9, 2003, at 16:59:28
In reply to Re: I Babbled/about him being sick, posted by Speaker on December 9, 2003, at 15:40:29
> DaisyM,
>
> For me I think it does make me apprehensive when someone I count on gets sick. I have had a life of caregiving and in therapy I thinks its my turn for someone else to be the caregiver. When they get sick I get scared that I might loose that.<<On a similar note, I too feel that way. Once during a session, my therapist talked about his daughter who had a high fever severaly years ago and had a seizure. I didn't say anything during the session. For about three weeks I had such severe anxiety because I didn't ask if his daughter was ok. For three weeks I felt awful, but I didn't want to ask if she was ok because I was afraid I was being "weird", but it slipped my mind during the session. Finally after about three weeks of feeling so guilty and anxious I just couldn't stand it anymore, I asked about his daughter and he said she was fine. I felt kinda dumb, but I'm no longer anxious about it. I just worry that sometimes his personal life will interfere with me gettting better too. And I wonder if that makes me sound self absorbed, but that's ok sometimes right?
If my therapist had to cancel because he himself were to become ill I am sure I would become full of anxiety. I would wonder how ill he was. If he was ok, if he would still be able to "take care of me during the session, ect.... Is this what you mean???? And, I would be a bit hurt. I still go in when I'm ill, he should too. (I know logically he shouldn't but emotionally it is a different story all together) And the abandonment issues are a completely different story. My automatic thought would be "He's doing this to punish me.....I've done something wrong.." But, my therapist has gone in sick before (and he looks so cute drinking hot chocolate :) I understand what you are saying, I think. I would not only be concerned for his health and safety, but also with my progress as well. As in "Well, what about me???" Almost like a child, with a sick parent. Is this what you mean?
Karen
Posted by DaisyM on December 9, 2003, at 17:18:53
In reply to Re: I Babbled » DaisyM, posted by Dinah on December 9, 2003, at 13:56:50
<<Being upset that your needs weren't met doesn't need to have anything to do with any compassion or good feelings you have for him.
>>I'm not good at identifying my needs. I'm worse at getting them met without guilt. I'd rather deny the need and be disgusted with myself for bothering someone.
And yet, way down deep inside I am still waiting for someone to take care of me and make it all OK. I worry that my Therapist will run from this really HUGE need, though he tells me he won't.
I'm trying to learn how to take better care of myself so I don't *need* him to. So far what I've learned is: I hate baths. I hate nature walks. I hate massage. I like shopping and cream of wheat. :)
Posted by DaisyM on December 9, 2003, at 17:48:44
In reply to Re: I Babbled/about him being sick, posted by Speaker on December 9, 2003, at 15:40:29
I never thought it about it like that -- having yet another person to take care of. It makes sense though. My Therapist has made me promise NOT to try to take care of him, because for me it is so ingrained and automatic to turn things around so that I'm doing the care taking. I've been pretty good about trying not to do this, although we had a discussion a month or so ago about me worrying about him having a chronic illness (He didn't answer -- but that is another story).
My background is Health education/children with special needs. I specialized for a long time in prenatal/lactation issues then moved to the kids. I love it but it is demanding and stressful. My husand has two serious, chronic illnesses that are taking their toll, both on him physically and on our family. Sometimes he handles it well. Mostly he is angry and bitter, after all he is only 44. So between my work life and my home life, I know too much about medical issues and I'm rapidly studying the mental health aspects of things. I don't know whether this is good or bad but it is how I solve problems -- find the answer in a book!
Posted by Dinah on December 9, 2003, at 18:30:55
In reply to Re: I Babbled » Dinah, posted by DaisyM on December 9, 2003, at 17:18:53
Posted by fallsfall on December 9, 2003, at 18:36:12
In reply to Re: I Babbled » fallsfall, posted by DaisyM on December 9, 2003, at 13:51:44
He won't feel bad. He will look objectively at the fact that you are worried that your therapist will get sick - and try to understand why it is an issue for you. They do this all the time - they have to know how not to take things personally.
If you think it is self-centered to worry that he's going to get sick, and you think that is a bad thing, then it is a good thing to work on in therapy. Where else can you be honest about stuff like that? If you think it is OK to be self-centered about it, then you don't have to work on it in therapy...
Just don't stop talking about this because you think it isn't one of the "hard" issues. How much time and effort have you put into this thread? Would you have done that if this wasn't important to you?
Posted by Speaker on December 9, 2003, at 18:37:08
In reply to Re: I Babbled » Dinah, posted by DaisyM on December 9, 2003, at 17:18:53
DaisyM,
I taught prenatal classes for ten years ;). My first husband had a heart condition diagnosed in his early twenties, a massive stroke at 36 and died at 41. Don't underestimate the energy it all takes on you. If it's cream of wheat and shopping that works or calling you therapist you are entitled :)...life is hard but good!
Posted by DaisyM on December 9, 2003, at 22:00:59
In reply to Re: I Babbled » DaisyM, posted by fallsfall on December 9, 2003, at 18:36:12
<<<How much time and effort have you put into this thread?
>>>Ok, too true. I hear you. Can I take you with me to my next appointment!? :)
Posted by fallsfall on December 10, 2003, at 6:17:44
In reply to Re: I Babbled » fallsfall, posted by DaisyM on December 9, 2003, at 22:00:59
Only if you'll come with me to mine. Mine's at 10 EST, when is yours?
Posted by DaisyM on December 10, 2003, at 12:30:07
In reply to Re: I Babbled » DaisyM, posted by fallsfall on December 10, 2003, at 6:17:44
Mine is at 2pm, west coast time.
Since my jet is in the shop, I'll have to send you good thoughts of strength, free-flowing verbalizations and an aftermath of inner-peace.
That would be peace -- not pieces.
:)
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