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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 21 of 21. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by someday on April 13, 2007, at 16:45:58
I bought Whey Protein in poweder form. I mixed it with milk and warmed it in microwave. After a few hours of drinking it, I felt weak and drowsy. I also had muscle pain and cold-like symptoms. I fell asleep right away.
Next day, I couldn't possibly think it was the the whey protein that's causing the symptom. So, I took two scoops again that day. I had exactly the same symptom. Two days later, which is today, I still feel weak. What in the whey protein would be causing this?
Posted by fayeroe on April 13, 2007, at 19:59:14
In reply to Sick from Whey protein?, posted by someday on April 13, 2007, at 16:45:58
> I bought Whey Protein in poweder form. I mixed it with milk and warmed it in microwave. After a few hours of drinking it, I felt weak and drowsy. I also had muscle pain and cold-like symptoms. I fell asleep right away.
>
> Next day, I couldn't possibly think it was the the whey protein that's causing the symptom. So, I took two scoops again that day. I had exactly the same symptom. Two days later, which is today, I still feel weak. What in the whey protein would be causing this?Whey protein
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Whey protein is the name for a collection of globular proteins that can be isolated from whey, a by-product of cheese manufactured from cow's milk. It is typically a mixture of beta-lactoglobulin (~65%), alpha-lactalbumin (~25%), and serum albumin (~8%), which are soluble in their native forms, independent of pH. Whey has the highest Biological Value (BV) of any known protein.Whey is a lactose-free or reduced lactose protein loaded with nutrients and essential amino acids. Whey is comprised of four major protein fractions and six minor protein fractions. The major protein fractions in whey are beta-lactoglobulin, alpha-lactalbumin, bovine serum albumin and immunoglobulins. Each of these components have important disease-fighting effects. In addition, whey protein is easily digestible and lactose-free.[1]
Native whey protein does not aggregate upon renneting or acidification of milk. Prolonged heat-treatment at sufficiently high temperatures and long duration will denature (i.e. partly unfold) the whey protein, triggering hydrophobic interactions with other proteins, and the formation of disulfide bonds between whey proteins and casein micelles, leading to aggregation with other milk proteins at low pH.
Whey protein can be denatured (irreversibly changed) by heat — similar to the protein in egg whites which, when cooked, permanently changes from a clear liquid to a white solid. When subjected to high heat (like the sustained high temperatures above 72 degrees Celsius (160 degrees Fahrenheit) associated with the pasteurization process) whey proteins become denatured and lose some bioactive compounds like cysteine, an amino acid that is a precursor to glutathione, an antioxidant.
Whey protein typically comes in three major forms: concentrate, isolate and hydrolysate. Whey protein concentrates contain a low level of fat and cholesterol but generally have higher levels of bioactive compounds, and carbohydrates in the form of lactose — they are 29%-89% protein by weight. Isolates are processed to remove the fat, and lactose, yet are usually lower in bioactive compounds as well — they are 90%+ protein by weight. Hydrolysates are predigested, partially hydrolyzed whey proteins which consequently are more easily absorbed, but their cost is generally higher.
[edit] Uses
Whey protein contains high levels of both essential and non-essential amino acids, and pregnant mothers are sometimes advised by their obstetricians to supplement their diets with whey protein to ensure that their developing babies get all the basic amino acids they might need.[citation needed]More than other protein supplements, whey protein powder is commonly used by bodybuilders and athletes desiring to accelerate muscle development and aid in recovery. Some individuals with suppressed/abnormal immune systems and/or degenerative diseases use undenatured bioactive whey proteins to increase their antioxidant levels. Undenatured whey proteins are a good source of cysteine, a conditionally essential amino acid which is the rate limiting factor for the body's production of glutathione, an important antioxidant.
Examples of commercial whey proteins include those available in most health food stores and supermarket health sections; they typically consist of isolate/concentrate or isolate/concentrate/hydrolysate mixtures and they are usually flavoured so they can be mixed with water or milk and consumed as a drink or shake. Whey Protein production has meant that whey is now easily integrated into many nutritional formulae.
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Posted by Phillipa on April 13, 2007, at 21:14:53
In reply to Re: Sick from Whey protein?, posted by fayeroe on April 13, 2007, at 19:59:14
So how did that make him sick? Love Phillipa
Posted by KayeBaby on April 13, 2007, at 22:41:28
In reply to Re: Sick from Whey protein? » fayeroe, posted by Phillipa on April 13, 2007, at 21:14:53
I had a similar reaction-Whey protein is full of free glutamates.
Are you sensitive to MSG?
Peace,
Kaye
Posted by someday on April 13, 2007, at 22:43:39
In reply to Re: Sick from Whey protein?, posted by KayeBaby on April 13, 2007, at 22:41:28
> I had a similar reaction-Whey protein is full of free glutamates.
>
> Are you sensitive to MSG?
>
>
> Peace,
> Kaye
>
hmmm....I'm not sure. Foods l eat at home usually don't have MSG so I don't know :p
Is the bad reaction from MSG because of free glutamates?
Posted by Cecilia on April 14, 2007, at 3:28:05
In reply to Sick from Whey protein?, posted by someday on April 13, 2007, at 16:45:58
The Wikipedia article makes it sound like heating the whey may have caused the damage. Try it cold and see if you get the same reaction. I take whey protein every day, usually mixed in a smoothie with skim milk, yogurt and fruit, and have never noticed any bad reaction. Cecilia
Posted by someday on April 14, 2007, at 5:34:03
In reply to Re: Sick from Whey protein? ?someday, posted by Cecilia on April 14, 2007, at 3:28:05
> The Wikipedia article makes it sound like heating the whey may have caused the damage. Try it cold and see if you get the same reaction. I take whey protein every day, usually mixed in a smoothie with skim milk, yogurt and fruit, and have never noticed any bad reaction. Cecilia
Wow. I'll try that. thx! Gonna reply after trying :)
Posted by qqqsimmons on April 14, 2007, at 12:47:59
In reply to Sick from Whey protein?, posted by someday on April 13, 2007, at 16:45:58
whey protein can cause a drop in blood sugar levels. that would explain the feeling of weakness.
Posted by Cecilia on April 15, 2007, at 2:47:55
In reply to re: whey protein / blood sugar, posted by qqqsimmons on April 14, 2007, at 12:47:59
I hadn't heard about whey causing a drop in blood sugar. Why would it do that? I use the kind sweetened with stevia, but always mix it with milk or something else, so it seems like it would raise your blood sugar like any carbohydrate, but gradually, the protein in the milk and whey would prevent the surge and then drop like a candy bar would. Cecilia
Posted by Phillipa on April 15, 2007, at 18:42:21
In reply to re: whey protein / blood sugar, posted by qqqsimmons on April 14, 2007, at 12:47:59
But does it promote nightime sleep or hinder it? Love Phillipa
Posted by KayeBaby on April 16, 2007, at 3:11:24
In reply to Re: Sick from Whey protein?, posted by someday on April 13, 2007, at 22:43:39
> Is the bad reaction from MSG because of free glutamates?
Yes. Apparently free glutamates function as a nuerotransmitter and stimulate receptors in the brain. Heating or hydrolyzing proteins 'unbinds' them and creates excess free-form glutamate.Glutamate is an excitatory neurotransmitter and an excess amount can be overstimulating to to brain cells and could cause damage.
Some people are more susceptable to the effects of too much glutamate. From what I can gather there is an enzyme that converts glutamate to GABA (a calming neurotransmitter)and in certain people this enzyme is impaired.
Conditions or circumstances in which the blood brain barrier is weak can allow more than a healthy amount of glutamate in. There are various other conditions in which the glutamate levels can be too high. B-6 deficiency is said to contribute to greater suceptability to harm caused by excessive glutamate. Also, when consumed in the free-unbound form they lack the natural balancing aspect of the whole protein.The way I understand it is that glutamate is essential to the proper functioning of our brain. It is only when there is a disproportionate amount (for whatever reason) that you run into trouble. Eat your proteins in their natural form, avoid large amounts of msg and you can take certain supplements to keep the glutamate levels in check.
The ones I am familiar with for this purpose are B6, CoQ10, Taurine and also magnesium.
The question of whether or not msg or free glutamates in our foods are harmful for people in general is contoversial. I think it is accepted that for SOME people in SOME circumstances it is.
I avoid eating foods laden with free glutamates and take the supplements that balance them and I have not had another terrible reaction.
This is just my basic understanding of the subject. I have no professional scientific background so take it for what it is worth.
Take Care,
Kaye
Posted by sregan on April 18, 2007, at 21:40:04
In reply to Sick from Whey protein?, posted by someday on April 13, 2007, at 16:45:58
> I bought Whey Protein in poweder form. I mixed it with milk and warmed it in microwave. After a few hours of drinking it, I felt weak and drowsy. I also had muscle pain and cold-like symptoms. I fell asleep right away.
The alpha-lactalbumin is supposed to convert to 5HTP-serotonin. Why protein is also supposed to help raise Glutathione levels which will boost your immune system. It's generally very healthy stuff. If you are sensitive to 5HTP, as I am, it might make you a little edgy/nervous/anxious.
Posted by Larry Hoover on April 21, 2007, at 10:49:26
In reply to Sick from Whey protein?, posted by someday on April 13, 2007, at 16:45:58
> I bought Whey Protein in poweder form. I mixed it with milk and warmed it in microwave. After a few hours of drinking it, I felt weak and drowsy. I also had muscle pain and cold-like symptoms. I fell asleep right away.
>
> Next day, I couldn't possibly think it was the the whey protein that's causing the symptom. So, I took two scoops again that day. I had exactly the same symptom. Two days later, which is today, I still feel weak. What in the whey protein would be causing this?
>
>To try and answer that question, you need to give more information about what is in the product itself. It could be an additive, for example. Is the whey protein hydrolyzed?
Lar
Posted by Larry Hoover on April 21, 2007, at 10:54:22
In reply to Re: Sick from Whey protein?, posted by someday on April 13, 2007, at 22:43:39
> > I had a similar reaction-Whey protein is full of free glutamates.
> >
> > Are you sensitive to MSG?
> >
> >
> > Peace,
> > Kaye
> >
>
>
> hmmm....I'm not sure. Foods l eat at home usually don't have MSG so I don't know :p
> Is the bad reaction from MSG because of free glutamates?If the whey has been hydrolyzed, there will be free glutamate, which is the ionized form of glutamic acid. There would also be other free amino acids, some of which could also be at issue, e.g. cysteine or methionine.
http://jn.nutrition.org/cgi/content/full/134/6/1633S
I forgot to mention it in the other post I just made, someday, but what is the exact dose you've used, and the protein content of the product itself?
Lar
Posted by Larry Hoover on April 21, 2007, at 10:55:14
In reply to Re: Sick from Whey protein?, posted by someday on April 14, 2007, at 5:34:03
> > The Wikipedia article makes it sound like heating the whey may have caused the damage. Try it cold and see if you get the same reaction. I take whey protein every day, usually mixed in a smoothie with skim milk, yogurt and fruit, and have never noticed any bad reaction. Cecilia
>
> Wow. I'll try that. thx! Gonna reply after trying :)Did it make any difference?
Lar
Posted by Larry Hoover on April 21, 2007, at 10:56:19
In reply to re: whey protein / blood sugar, posted by qqqsimmons on April 14, 2007, at 12:47:59
> whey protein can cause a drop in blood sugar levels. that would explain the feeling of weakness.
One of many variables, this is indeed true. See: http://jn.nutrition.org/cgi/content/full/132/8/2174
Lar
Posted by Larry Hoover on April 21, 2007, at 10:59:09
In reply to re: whey protein / blood sugar » qqqsimmons, posted by Cecilia on April 15, 2007, at 2:47:55
> I hadn't heard about whey causing a drop in blood sugar. Why would it do that?
The more hydrolyzed the whey, the greater the blood concentration spike in branched chain amino acids, which are thought to trigger insulin release at rates greater than glucose. It's a rate of appearance in blood that does the trick.
http://jn.nutrition.org/cgi/content/full/132/8/2174
Lar
Posted by Larry Hoover on April 21, 2007, at 10:59:56
In reply to re: whey protein / blood sugar, posted by Phillipa on April 15, 2007, at 18:42:21
> But does it promote nightime sleep or hinder it? Love Phillipa
I would think it would promote sleep.
Lar
Posted by Larry Hoover on April 21, 2007, at 11:08:52
In reply to Re: Sick from Whey protein?, posted by KayeBaby on April 16, 2007, at 3:11:24
>
> > Is the bad reaction from MSG because of free glutamates?
>
>
> Yes. Apparently free glutamates function as a nuerotransmitter and stimulate receptors in the brain. Heating or hydrolyzing proteins 'unbinds' them and creates excess free-form glutamate.Yes, but.....
Hydrolysis frees more than just glutamate. Your stomach acid hyrolyzes proteins, and works alongside proteolytic enzymes. Pre-hydrolyzed whey protein could be thought of as being predigested. The free aminos (all of them) would enter the blood more rapidly than from whey protein concentrate. There would be a collective effect of multiple amino acids, all dependent on the rate of uptake, which would relate to degree of hydrolysis, dose, combination with other foods, genetic factors, etc.
The simplest factor to manipulate is dose. There's a simple test if free glutamate is the issue.....add in some taurine with the whey protein. If the adverse effects are eliminated, you can consider glutamate, or it could be an adaptive response from repeated exposure.
Why might never be known, but dose is easily tested.
Lar
Posted by Phillipa on April 21, 2007, at 19:21:49
In reply to re: whey protein / blood sugar » Phillipa, posted by Larry Hoover on April 21, 2007, at 10:59:56
Lar thank-you I think I was sleeping better with a glass at betime before reading so will drink tonight again. Love Phillipa
Posted by KayeBaby on April 21, 2007, at 20:52:36
In reply to Re: Sick from Whey protein? » KayeBaby, posted by Larry Hoover on April 21, 2007, at 11:08:52
> >
> > > Is the bad reaction from MSG because of free glutamates?
> >
> >
> > Yes. Apparently free glutamates function as a nuerotransmitter and stimulate receptors in the brain. Heating or hydrolyzing proteins 'unbinds' them and creates excess free-form glutamate.
>
> Yes, but.....
>
> Hydrolysis frees more than just glutamate. Your stomach acid hyrolyzes proteins, and works alongside proteolytic enzymes. Pre-hydrolyzed whey protein could be thought of as being predigested. The free aminos (all of them) would enter the blood more rapidly than from whey protein concentrate. There would be a collective effect of multiple amino acids, all dependent on the rate of uptake, which would relate to degree of hydrolysis, dose, combination with other foods, genetic factors, etc.
>
> The simplest factor to manipulate is dose. There's a simple test if free glutamate is the issue.....add in some taurine with the whey protein. If the adverse effects are eliminated, you can consider glutamate, or it could be an adaptive response from repeated exposure.
>
> Why might never be known, but dose is easily tested.
>
> LarI have found taurine helpful. Honestly, I had an obvious reaction once due to a sort of 'perfect storm' of factors. Daily use of the whey and then a MSG loaded meal on an empty stomach caused it. I considered that some of my symptoms have been exacerbated by glutamates and tested it out by avoiding the substance as much as possible for a few days and then adding it back in-which induced a milder reaction confirming the theory to me.
All I have to do is be sensible and not load up on free glutimates, balance them and also taurine.
This was a very important bit of info for me due to the inexplicable nature of my aches, anxiety and fatigue. I have consistantly felt better since I became aware of this effect and have minimized exposure and probably more importantly I feel less victimized by unseen forces. If that makes any sense at all. :)
I have a lot more respect about my diets ability to effect how I feel now. This caused me to explore the healing aspect of food more fully, much to my benefit.
I was absolutely glad that my little 'perfect storm' happened.
Peace,
Kaye
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