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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by shasling on January 17, 2006, at 18:22:45
In reply to Re: FOOD FOR THOUGHT-Omega 3 » blueberry, posted by Phillipa on January 16, 2006, at 20:55:12
Omega 3 has helped me before, only mild relief from depression, but for sure helped with physical symptoms thereof like aches, pains, fatigue headaches etc. Gotta take it consistently for a few months, tho. What got me going on it was the book The Zone - it went into why it helps, what kind it needs to be, what else to take it with etc. Very informative and interesting, cliff's notes version: Needs to be fish oil with EPA and DHA. Take it in conjunction with Evening Primrose for best synergistic affect. They work off each other in some kind of a cycle. Glad to see someone bring it up, I'm a huge believer.
Posted by blueberry on January 17, 2006, at 21:37:38
In reply to Re: FOOD FOR THOUGHT-Omega 3 » blueberry, posted by Phillipa on January 16, 2006, at 20:55:12
Phillipa I'm only taking 650mg (combined EPA and DHA, not measured as the mg of the whole capsule). But my doctor insists it should be at least 1000mg to 2000mg of combined EPA and DHA. It might be my imagination, but I think I like lower doses than higher ones.
> Blueberry I take Omega 3 every day. How much do you use. Maybe my intake is too low. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by honeybee on January 25, 2006, at 11:28:07
In reply to Re: FOOD FOR THOUGHT-Omega 3 » Phillipa, posted by blueberry on January 17, 2006, at 21:37:38
In all the reading that I've done (including several quoting Dr. Stoll, author of the groundbreaking Bipolar study), it seems like the ratio of EPA to DHA is best at 7:1 (more or less) and that 1 to 2 grams of *EPA* is optimal--DHA is less important, according to Dr. Stoll, because these stores are "deposited" during our prenatal brain development. There was a study (done somewhere in Scandanavia, I believe?) that showed that, for depressed patients, taking more EPA, even at the levels prescribed by Dr. Stoll in his bipolar study, was not more effective than taking just the 1 to 2 grams. But Dr. Stoll even says that he's heard from people saying that they don't get any effect until they're taking a lot more than the starting dose (1 gram of EPA a day).
Maybe this has to do with our various brains' metabolisms and stuctures? I, for one, am guessing that my brain, having been on a vegetarian, mostly Omega-6 diet for over 11 years, is probably in need of some major restructing and that it will take a while for my brain structure to change. Dr. Stoll says that with many patients, he has them start at 1 gram or so of EPA a day and, if they don't feel any effect in the first couple of weeks, he bumps up the dose. I'm sticking with what the studies suggest: about 1.5 grams of EPA a day. I'd love to hear about other folks' dosing schedules though, and what they feel has worked best.
Honeybee
Posted by jedi on February 4, 2006, at 2:33:08
In reply to Re: FOOD FOR THOUGHT-Omega 3, posted by honeybee on January 25, 2006, at 11:28:07
Hi,
I'm taking 2400mg of EPA and 2000mg of DHA in a 10 gram dose of fish oil daily. The capsules are coated to avoid the fish burps. So far, other than Nardil, this has been the best medication(?) I have ever taken. I was able to wein off 90mg Nardil with almost no return of depressive symptoms. I did take my time and weined off over a seven or eight week period. But when you read the horror stories of some people coming off these meds, it is pretty amazing. I've been taking this fairly high dosage of Omega-3s for several months and for me it seems to have taken that long for the positive effects to kick in. The fatty acids did make me a little hypomanic at first but this side effect has pretty much subsided. I know my overall health is better while taking Omega-3s. I've been exposed to at least a half dozen colds, and haven't caught any of them. In the past, when my daughter would bring a cold home from school; I would always catch it in a few days. Then the cold would turn into bronchitis and even pneumonia once. Not scientific but you won't see me giving up on fish oil any time soon.
Jedi
Posted by sdb on February 23, 2006, at 15:56:45
In reply to Re: FOOD FOR THOUGHT-Omega 3, posted by jedi on February 4, 2006, at 2:33:08
Hi Jedi,
Which product do you use (manufacturer, online-store etc.?
Thanks
sdb
Posted by jedi on February 23, 2006, at 23:47:28
In reply to Re: FOOD FOR THOUGHT-Omega 3 to Jedi, posted by sdb on February 23, 2006, at 15:56:45
> Hi Jedi,
>
> Which product do you use (manufacturer, online-store etc.?
>
> Thanks
>
> sdbsdb,
I use the Costco/Kirkland concentrated coated capsules.
Link:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/alter/20060130/msgs/609113.html
Best of Luck,
Jedi
Posted by sdb on February 26, 2006, at 20:02:14
In reply to Re: FOOD FOR THOUGHT-Omega 3 to Jedi » sdb, posted by jedi on February 23, 2006, at 23:47:28
Thanks Jedi for the short link.
sdb
Posted by April8 on March 16, 2006, at 13:55:36
In reply to Re: FOOD FOR THOUGHT-Omega 3 to Jedi » sdb, posted by jedi on February 23, 2006, at 23:47:28
Does anyone get insomnia from Omega 3? I started at 2 grams a day taken in the morning and afternoon and a couple of days later was up all night practically. has this happened to anyone? I know that it is suppossed to regulate sleep/melatonin etc. but does it ever cause insomnia. I am not bi-polar but have PTSD and Major depression.
I lowered the dose now to one gram in the mornings. just curious from others!
April
Posted by April8 on March 16, 2006, at 14:14:07
In reply to Re: FOOD FOR THOUGHT-Omega 3 to Jedi, posted by April8 on March 16, 2006, at 13:55:36
Does anyone get insomnia from Omega 3? I started at 2 grams a day taken in the morning and afternoon and a couple of days later was up all night practically. has this happened to anyone? I know that it is suppossed to regulate sleep/melatonin etc. but does it ever cause insomnia? I also wonder if it has made anyone dizzy? I think I have a slight cold and my ears are plugged a bit, but I have also been dizzy since taking more fish oil.
I am not bi-polar but have PTSD and Major depression. Any imput from others would be SO appreciated!
I lowered the dose now to one gram in the mornings. just curious from others!
April
Posted by jedi on March 16, 2006, at 14:42:28
In reply to Side effects from fish oil?, posted by April8 on March 16, 2006, at 14:14:07
Hi April,
When I first started high doses of Omega-3 fish oil I was still on 90mg of Nardil. My EPA is at 2400mg and my DHA is at 2000mg daily. This combination led to some pretty profound insomnia, probably hypomania at first. After several weeks this started to subside. After I weaned off the Nardil, all insomnia from the high doseage of fish oil is gone. I am currently taking 300mg of Wellbutrin XL with the Omega-3s, with zero insomnia. I know it takes the body some time to adjust to these essential fatty acids. However, I really believe that it is worth the short lived side effects. The Omega-3s have not only helped in my mood stabilization, but my overall health has improved at least 200% since starting high dosage fish oil. I just do not get sick like I did before. The cardiovascular benefits are also very well documented. I am a believer.
Good Luck,
Jedi
> Does anyone get insomnia from Omega 3? I started at 2 grams a day taken in the morning and afternoon and a couple of days later was up all night practically. has this happened to anyone? I know that it is suppossed to regulate sleep/melatonin etc. but does it ever cause insomnia? I also wonder if it has made anyone dizzy? I think I have a slight cold and my ears are plugged a bit, but I have also been dizzy since taking more fish oil.
>
> I am not bi-polar but have PTSD and Major depression. Any imput from others would be SO appreciated!
> I lowered the dose now to one gram in the mornings. just curious from others!
> April
>
Posted by sdb on March 20, 2006, at 15:04:46
In reply to Re: Side effects from fish oil? » April8, posted by jedi on March 16, 2006, at 14:42:28
hmm, I think that I have a positive effect after 1.5 weeks of 1.2g EPA from Twinlab fishoil. It seems to be very subtle, but it works somehow. You don't feel drugged.
~sdb
Posted by Terry on March 22, 2006, at 9:18:09
In reply to Side effects from fish oil?, posted by April8 on March 16, 2006, at 14:14:07
> Does anyone get insomnia from Omega 3? I started at 2 grams a day taken in the morning and afternoon and a couple of days later was up all night practically. has this happened to anyone? I know that it is suppossed to regulate sleep/melatonin etc. but does it ever cause insomnia? I also wonder if it has made anyone dizzy? I think I have a slight cold and my ears are plugged a bit, but I have also been dizzy since taking more fish oil.
>
> I am not bi-polar but have PTSD and Major depression. Any imput from others would be SO appreciated!
> I lowered the dose now to one gram in the mornings. just curious from others!
> April
>
Fish oil causes me to have generalized anxiety. I don't understand that because it is supposed to help aleviate anxiety. Has anyone else experienced anxiety with fish oil?
Posted by jedi on March 22, 2006, at 22:27:56
In reply to Re: Side effects from fish oil? - anxiety » April8, posted by Terry on March 22, 2006, at 9:18:09
> Fish oil causes me to have generalized anxiety. I don't understand that because it is supposed to help aleviate anxiety. Has anyone else experienced anxiety with fish oil?
High dosages may provoke that side effect initially. In my case it was very short lived.
Jedi
Posted by LOOPS on March 29, 2006, at 17:40:13
In reply to Re: Side effects from fish oil? - anxiety » Terry, posted by jedi on March 22, 2006, at 22:27:56
Hi -
fish oil supposedly raises dopamine, just look up fish oil and dopamine on google. I found the following article -
http://www.nutrition.org/cgi/content/abstract/128/12/2512
I've been supplementing fish oil for over a year now, and recently have been trying to lower my dose considerably. Initially fish oil did help with depression, but looking over the past year I have had various problems with anxiety that weren't there that much before. I have to say it has really helped with various aches and pains, but I think it's powerful stuff. I'm going to try a lower dose, as also over the past year I've had pretty bad insomnia and agitation and although it could be due to a number of things, it seems to tie in with fish oil consumption.
I tried a few days off and I was considerably more relaxed (although that could all be in my mind) - I even fell asleep really early for once. Note that I am on a low carbohydrate high fat diet so I'm probably getting enough fatty acids anyway (all the meat here is grass-fed). However this morning I did have a few aches and pains from sports training that I don't usually have. Could be anything.
I have read from numerous people that they initially feel better from fish oil then feel more anxious. Others feel more calm YMMV. I feel I suppose more dopamine going on with fish oil. Another thing I have noticed on fish oil is I'm actually smoking more rollups than before. I initially took it to help with my nicotine addiction but low and behold, it seems to stimulate my desire.
I must add that I had added in GLA before, and this seemed to take away the anxiety that the fish oil induced/exacerbated. However, after awhile, I noticed I was more depressed and eating a lot and had no motivation on the GLA + fish oil. I've heard one other person reporting this. Could be the ratio of GLA:fish oil is off.
Right now I will take a small amount of fish oil before my training and no more. Anyway I believe saturated fat is more important right now (makes me thinner!).
I would like to hear other people's experiences.
Take care
Loops
Posted by jedi on March 29, 2006, at 22:54:45
In reply to Re: Side effects from fish oil? - anxiety, posted by LOOPS on March 29, 2006, at 17:40:13
> Hi -
> fish oil supposedly raises dopamine, just look up fish oil and dopamine on google. I found the following article -
> http://www.nutrition.org/cgi/content/abstract/128/12/2512Thanks for the article. With the associated articles and references there is a wealth of information to digest.
Thanks again,
Jedi
Posted by qqqsimmons on April 3, 2006, at 23:29:36
In reply to Re: Side effects from fish oil? - anxiety, posted by LOOPS on March 29, 2006, at 17:40:13
another thanks for the article. melatonin inhibits some dopamine release (http://physrev.physiology.org/cgi/content/full/78/3/687). i wonder if one could combine fish oil and melatonin and get benefits from both, and what the corresponding dosages would be...
Posted by LOOPS on April 4, 2006, at 10:04:40
In reply to Re: Side effects from fish oil? - dopamine, posted by qqqsimmons on April 3, 2006, at 23:29:36
Hi -
I took fish oil and melatonin for ages - 1mg melatonin every night. Initially it worked but after awhile I would be waking up completely after 2 hours sleep at night. Eventually the melatonin stopped working completely. I took a break but it never started working again even after this. It worked great though for about 2 months. It did seem to make me less anxious.
Loops
Posted by qqqsimmons on April 4, 2006, at 18:00:11
In reply to Re: Side effects from fish oil? - dopamine, posted by LOOPS on April 4, 2006, at 10:04:40
did the anti-anxiety effect go away after two months too?
anyway, right now i take 100mg DHA per day, Source Naturals brand Neuromins. Kind of expensive but it's hard to get a small dose of fish oil.
i like DHA cuz it's supposed to have a shorter half-life than EPA.
Posted by LOOPS on April 6, 2006, at 10:57:57
In reply to Re: Side effects from fish oil? - dopamine, posted by qqqsimmons on April 4, 2006, at 18:00:11
high DHA pills definitely made me worse - irritable with anxiety. And this was on a pill that had 200mg EPA/200mg DHA. I got better on 400mgEPA/200mg DHA pills.
Loops
Posted by qqqsimmons on April 6, 2006, at 18:48:59
In reply to Re: Side effects from fish oil? - dopamine, posted by LOOPS on April 6, 2006, at 10:57:57
yeah, i can't take the usual 120 mg dha, 180 mg epa pill per day. i love how the bottle says "take three per day". do most people have no psychoactive side-effect or what? i mean, insomnia is never mentioned as a side effect in the usual stuff on fish oil.
i'm taking microdoses of melatonin this week. 100mg or less per day. definitely helps me with overstimulation. hopefully this effect doesn't wear off like you suggested.
Posted by LOOPS on April 7, 2006, at 9:22:26
In reply to Re: dopamine / fish oil / melatonin, posted by qqqsimmons on April 6, 2006, at 18:48:59
I lied!
Last night I took 1mg melatonin as I couldn't see the harm in it even if it didn't work for me again. Basically I've sworn myself off any sleep meds and am willing to bite the bullet with insomnia instead, so as you can see I had nothing to lose.
WEll it worked again. Granted, my sleep was pretty broken and completely jam packed with dreaming and tossing and turning all night (had previously taken some P5P and cal/mag/zinc) but the point is I slept without meds.
A couple of days ago I had a 'sleep deprivation experience' which turned out pretty good ironically. Didn't get much sleep (let's say 4 hours tops), got up very groggy and then had a completely great day despite being tired. No anxiety, depression had lifted and motivation to do stuff round the house that I've been putting off for donkeys was high. Ended the day with a band practice which was storming then crashed into bed. Didn't actually sleep well after this, but then that isn't unusual.
So this is encouraging. It means that not getting enough sleep is not necessarily going to make me feel like pants the next day. Which is the original reason I started taking the sleeping pills.
I really think fish oil will potentiate anything else you take, but alone it never really did squat for me apart from if I took huge amounts and lowered all the other fats in my diet. Then it worked for depression but the anxiety started to get a bit high.
Loops
Posted by qqqsimmons on April 7, 2006, at 17:01:55
In reply to Re: dopamine / fish oil / melatonin, posted by LOOPS on April 7, 2006, at 9:22:26
glad to hear the melatonin helped again, at least once. before, i'd gotten nervous about it cuz there was talk here about melatonin "causing" physical depression (by physical, i mean depression of the brain and body, not just negative thinking). but for me fish oil kicks any physical depression's *ss. although if i'm having negative thoughts, it may just give me more energy to think negatively...
it seems i can take a bit of melatonin any time of day and i'll sleep better that night. i may feel a bit sluggish at work, but some times the slowing of thoughts is good when dealing with people.
Posted by qqqsimmons on April 8, 2006, at 10:42:56
In reply to Re: dopamine / fish oil / melatonin, posted by qqqsimmons on April 7, 2006, at 17:01:55
i think melatonin is causing me to lose muscle. i weighed 150 lbs this morning. i looked on wikipedia.org this morning and read how it reduces luteinizing hormone, which affects testosterone.
i guess the herb tribulus (puncture vine) will restore LH. i tried some once or twice and got insomnia.
maybe micro-doses of each could counterbalance each other. or i could just try to sleep naturally...
Posted by LOOPS on April 9, 2006, at 9:33:58
In reply to melatonin / luteinizing hormone, posted by qqqsimmons on April 8, 2006, at 10:42:56
Hi -
you said you take 100mg melatonin- I assume you mean 100mcg?
As regards muscle loss, I play tennis every day and am definintely not losing muscle. Melatonin never affected this for me.
I slept again last night without pills - again, 1mg melatonin (and dolomite pills). Woke up too early but did go back to sleep again.
I've never tried melatonin in the day - sounds interesting. It seems fair to say anything which is calming has the potential to be depressing (apart from taurine which seems to have both calming and stimulating properties).
Loops
Posted by stephano on May 22, 2006, at 20:48:45
In reply to Re: Side effects from fish oil?, posted by sdb on March 20, 2006, at 15:04:46
Ahhhh fish oil! Yet another example of this arbitrary distinction between what is 'natural' (and thus supposedly safer) versus pharmaceutical/chemical.
Fish oil really messed with my head! (and I see that it's affected others too)
I have had ME/CFS for ten years...and there is no doubt that an effective dopamine problem plays a role in this condition. But simply "boosting" dopamine has caused some scary effects...perhaps because dopamine receptors are upregulated/overly sensitised due to such a long period of low levels. (Pure speculation)
What I do know is that taking 3 fish oil capsules (i.e following the directions!) had a noticeable positive effect on excercise tolerance/stamina, body temperature (I'm always freezing cold and it warmed me up nicely) appetite and mood...BUT (big, big BUT) it went too far and brought on symptoms which felt like the beginnings of psychosis. Distorted reality, anxiety, disassociative state....I can tell you I had to grit my teeth to hold it together. Scary...but less so once you realise what's caused it and that you're not actually developing schizophrenia. Obviously such a rection would be rare...but the label should specify starting at low doses and working upwards slowly.
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