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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by KaraS on September 6, 2004, at 12:14:31
In reply to Re: Light box therapy...any current users? » gardenergirl, posted by Larry Hoover on September 6, 2004, at 6:37:49
How long do you sit in front of it each day? And if one goes outside and get lots of sunlight each day now, why would one need to start using it right away?
Posted by TeeJay on September 6, 2004, at 20:03:37
In reply to Re: Light box therapy...any current users? » Larry Hoover, posted by KaraS on September 6, 2004, at 12:14:31
You misunderstand......you need to fill your box with light now so you have plenty of it stored ready for when there isnt much in the winter ;-))
Posted by sb417 on September 6, 2004, at 20:15:46
In reply to Re: Light box therapy...any current users? » Larry Hoover, posted by KaraS on September 6, 2004, at 12:14:31
Kara, I think the reason that spending a lot of time outdoors in the winter won't help as much is that the intensity of the light is not sufficient. GG, I highly recommend light therapy. I've been using a light box for over ten years now. I can't live without it, and I really notice an increase in depression when I go on a trip and can't take my box with me (although you can purchase portable ones). I use my light box throughout the year but I use it for a shorter period of time in the spring and summer. We've had a lot of rainy, overcast days this summer, and I always use it on overcast days, regardless of the season. Granted, the light box isn't as good for me as real spring and summer, but it most definitely helps.
Posted by gardenergirl on September 6, 2004, at 21:42:47
In reply to Re: Light box therapy...any current users?ggKara, posted by sb417 on September 6, 2004, at 20:15:46
Thanks, that's good to know. And now I think if it works for me, I may need to get a travel one. Or maybe just carry some full spectrum bulbs. May not help, but couldn't hurt. (unless I broke on. D'oh!)
:)
Thanks again.
gg
Posted by sb417 on September 6, 2004, at 22:09:46
In reply to Re: Light box therapy...any current users?ggKara » sb417, posted by gardenergirl on September 6, 2004, at 21:42:47
Hi gg,
The problem with just carrying the bulbs is that you won't have a protective shield. Most of the lightboxes I've seen, from Apollo, Sunbox Co, and Northern Light, etc., have a plastic screen covering the lightbulbs. By the way, you aren't supposed to look directly into the lights. Oh -- I've also heard that some medical insurance companies will reimburse patients for the cost of the light, so you might want to discuss this with your doctor and have him write you a "prescription" or requisition for it.
Posted by KaraS on September 6, 2004, at 23:34:45
In reply to Re: Light box therapy...any current users?ggKara, posted by sb417 on September 6, 2004, at 20:15:46
> Kara, I think the reason that spending a lot of time outdoors in the winter won't help as much is that the intensity of the light is not sufficient.
sb, I meant in terms of using it now. Larry said that you have to start to use it now before the winter comes. It's still summer where I am and it's sunny every day until late fall here (in S. Cal.) so I also wasn't thinking about it from the right perspective as someone in Canada or the midwest. But still, if it's only early autumn and still sunny there, then why should they have to start using it so quickly?
GG, I highly recommend light therapy. I've been using a light box for over ten years now. I can't live without it, and I really notice an increase in depression when I go on a trip and can't take my box with me (although you can purchase portable ones). I use my light box throughout the year but I use it for a shorter period of time in the spring and summer. We've had a lot of rainy, overcast days this summer, and I always use it on overcast days, regardless of the season. Granted, the light box isn't as good for me as real spring and summer, but it most definitely helps.I also have a light box but I haven't been using it. I'm going to start though - not just for the depression but also for resetting my sleep-wake cycle.
How long do you sit in front of it each morning? Is 30 minutes long enough or does it really vary? I've heard that some people require a lot of time in front of it - like 2 hours a day. That seems so impractical. Who has that kind of time in the morning?
-K
Posted by KaraS on September 6, 2004, at 23:40:53
In reply to Re: Light box therapy...any current users?ggKara » gardenergirl, posted by sb417 on September 6, 2004, at 22:09:46
> Hi gg,
>
> The problem with just carrying the bulbs is that you won't have a protective shield. Most of the lightboxes I've seen, from Apollo, Sunbox Co, and Northern Light, etc., have a plastic screen covering the lightbulbs. By the way, you aren't supposed to look directly into the lights. Oh -- I've also heard that some medical insurance companies will reimburse patients for the cost of the light, so you might want to discuss this with your doctor and have him write you a "prescription" or requisition for it.
I actually read that you were supposed to look directly into the light. I have done that a few times. Hope I didn't do any damage.BTW, I've also heard that there are things you can attach to your head that have these special lights so that you can exercise with this contraption on and kill two birds with one stone.
I also purchased one of those Sunriser things where the lights get gradually brighter in your room so that you wake up to bright light. Supposed to be good for your sleep/wake cycle. It didn't seem to be doing anything for me, however, so I stopped using it.
-K
Posted by sb417 on September 7, 2004, at 0:01:31
In reply to Re: Light box therapy...any current users? » sb417, posted by KaraS on September 6, 2004, at 23:40:53
Hi Kara,
Hmmm. . .I read that you weren't supposed to look into the bulbs. Perhaps we got different literature from different companies.Yes, I've seen those portable lights that you attach to your head like a visor, but I've never purchased one.
I've heard about those dawn simulators, and my doctor wanted me to get one. I was interested to read about your experience with it. I guess it's good that I didn't waste the money on it!
Posted by gardenergirl on September 7, 2004, at 0:01:44
In reply to Re: Light box therapy...any current users?ggKara » gardenergirl, posted by sb417 on September 6, 2004, at 22:09:46
Yeah, I plan to call my insurance company first thing Tuesday. Actually, I was thinking of those full spectrum bulbs that you can use to replace regular bulbs. I know they do not have the intensity required. And I suppose I was mostly thinking aloud and kidding.
But good to know about the bulbs in the light boxes. I would hate to hurt my eyes. Or someone else's.
Warmly,
gg
Posted by sb417 on September 7, 2004, at 0:09:19
In reply to Re: Light box therapy...any current users? » sb417, posted by KaraS on September 6, 2004, at 23:34:45
Hi Kara. I have not heard about what Larry recommended. I've heard that the beneficial effects of light therapy occur within days. I've never heard that you have to start using it months or weeks in advance of the winter. I've found the positive effects almost immediate.
During the winter I sit in front of it for about 30 minutes. Usually I set it up in my kitchen, so I can be exposed to it while I'm having breakfast, reading the paper, etc. Some times I don't have that much time for it. I've tried sitting in front of it for longer than that, but the intensity starts to bother me. On overcast days throughout the rest of the year, I spend 10-15 minutes in front of it. I don't actually keep track of the amount of time I spend. Also, sometimes I'm doing other things in the room while the light is on, so I may not be sitting as close to it as I'm supposed to. Using the light box was easiest some years ago when I lived in a studio apartment. No matter where I was in the studio, I was never very far from the box. Now I have more space, so it's difficult to sit at the required distance for the prescribed amount of time.
Posted by KaraS on September 7, 2004, at 0:49:13
In reply to Re: Light box therapy...any current users?, posted by sb417 on September 7, 2004, at 0:01:31
> Hi Kara,
> Hmmm. . .I read that you weren't supposed to look into the bulbs. Perhaps we got different literature from different companies.
>
> Yes, I've seen those portable lights that you attach to your head like a visor, but I've never purchased one.
>
> I've heard about those dawn simulators, and my doctor wanted me to get one. I was interested to read about your experience with it. I guess it's good that I didn't waste the money on it!
>To be fair, I was using the Sunriser to feel refreshed in the morning. Maybe nothing will change the fact that I'm not a morning person. I may have been asking for it to do the impossible. I should probably try it again just to see if it can help keep my sleep/wake cycle in balance.
Posted by KaraS on September 7, 2004, at 0:51:32
In reply to Re: Light box therapy...any current users? » KaraS, posted by sb417 on September 7, 2004, at 0:09:19
> Hi Kara. I have not heard about what Larry recommended. I've heard that the beneficial effects of light therapy occur within days. I've never heard that you have to start using it months or weeks in advance of the winter. I've found the positive effects almost immediate.
That was my impression as well.
> During the winter I sit in front of it for about 30 minutes. Usually I set it up in my kitchen, so I can be exposed to it while I'm having breakfast, reading the paper, etc. Some times I don't have that much time for it. I've tried sitting in front of it for longer than that, but the intensity starts to bother me. On overcast days throughout the rest of the year, I spend 10-15 minutes in front of it. I don't actually keep track of the amount of time I spend. Also, sometimes I'm doing other things in the room while the light is on, so I may not be sitting as close to it as I'm supposed to. Using the light box was easiest some years ago when I lived in a studio apartment. No matter where I was in the studio, I was never very far from the box. Now I have more space, so it's difficult to sit at the required distance for the prescribed amount of time.Good to know that it works that well for limited periods of time. Thanks.
-K
Posted by Larry Hoover on September 9, 2004, at 11:07:25
In reply to Re: Light box therapy...any current users? » sb417, posted by KaraS on September 6, 2004, at 23:34:45
> > Kara, I think the reason that spending a lot of time outdoors in the winter won't help as much is that the intensity of the light is not sufficient.
>
> sb, I meant in terms of using it now. Larry said that you have to start to use it now before the winter comes. It's still summer where I am and it's sunny every day until late fall here (in S. Cal.) so I also wasn't thinking about it from the right perspective as someone in Canada or the midwest. But still, if it's only early autumn and still sunny there, then why should they have to start using it so quickly?I didn't say "have to", I said it was better. Response is best when light treatment begins before symptoms arise. There was an excellent article on the subject in Biological Psychiatry, but that's a pay-per-article journal. Here's a suggestive abstract:
Psychol Med. 1996 Sep;26(5):1075-80.
Prevention of winter seasonal affective disorder by bright-light treatment.
Partonen T, Lonnqvist J.
Department of Mental Health, National Public Health Institute, Helsinki, Finland.
In patients with winter seasonal affective disorder (SAD) the onset of a depressive episode is probably associated with the decreasing amount of light during the autumn. A highly predictable onset of a recurrent depressive episode with seasonal pattern provides a rationale for testing the efficacy of bright-light treatment as a preventive measure. Twelve out-patients with winter SAD were assigned to start bright light treatment either when they were well, or not to start it until the first symptoms of depression had already emerged. The severity of depressive symptoms was prospectively rated for a parallel randomized comparison. Bright light given well in advance of the emerging symptoms prevented a depressive episode. Clinical remission was significantly more frequent in the former subgroup of the patients in January and in March. To sum up, bright light can be successfully administered as prophylactic treatment for the prevention of winter SAD.
Lar
Posted by KaraS on September 9, 2004, at 17:12:17
In reply to Re: Light box therapy...any current users? » KaraS, posted by Larry Hoover on September 9, 2004, at 11:07:25
Thanks for clarifying about the time to use lightboxes. Do you know if it's ok to look directly into them or not? I read that it's preferable but sb417 read that you shouldn't. I wonder if different companies publish different directions. I have a SunBox.
-K
Posted by Larry Hoover on September 9, 2004, at 18:02:01
In reply to Re: Light box therapy...any current users? » Larry Hoover, posted by KaraS on September 9, 2004, at 17:12:17
> Thanks for clarifying about the time to use lightboxes. Do you know if it's ok to look directly into them or not? I read that it's preferable but sb417 read that you shouldn't. I wonder if different companies publish different directions. I have a SunBox.
>
> -KMy Northern Lights light specifically warns against looking directly at it. I don't think you need the warning. It is just too bright for that.
I forget exactly the language used, but they suggest reading, with the light opposite your book/magazine, for example. In other words, a downward eye position, with the light at or above the horizontal plane. Something like that.
But the Northern Lights light is one of the brighter ones, if I recall correctly.
Lar
Posted by gardenergirl on September 10, 2004, at 9:25:02
In reply to Re: Light box therapy...any current users? » KaraS, posted by Larry Hoover on September 9, 2004, at 18:02:01
Posted by gardenergirl on September 17, 2004, at 12:20:48
In reply to Thanks everyone...I'll be ordering shortly (nm), posted by gardenergirl on September 10, 2004, at 9:25:02
Hi all,
I got my full spectrum lamp the other day. I ordered a floor lamp that's dimmable because I thought that might be more useful and aesthetically pleasing versus a light box. It was from Full Spectrum Solutions (I think...can't find the paperwork at moment) and was a reasonable price (for light therapy, not for lamp!)I put it by my bedside because I think it's somewhat helpful to use it at the same time everyday...is that right? I know my habits, and I am much more likely to do this if I use it when I first wake up. So for the last two mornings I've stayed in bed and read a book for a half hour with the light on. (Boy that's bright!). I can get about 12 inches away if I use extra pillows to sit up more.
My question is this...am I setting myself up for a sleep association/hygiene mess if I use this in bed? Will I start to associate bed with waking up more?
Any other thoughts on my plan? If I put it somewhere else, then I might be likely to sleep in and just get up and do it whenever. But I take a dose of Nardil at 6 a.m. and do this fairly reliably with the help of an alarm. I'm hoping this will kind of force me into getting awake at the same time each day...the combo of waking to take meds and then using the light.
(my poor husband doesn't usually get up 'til 6:30 a.m., though. Looks like he might be getting up a bit earlier...works for me since I start internship next week and bathroom wars will begin again. D'oh!)
Thanks in advance for comments and advice.
gg
Posted by sjb on September 21, 2004, at 9:22:13
In reply to Got my lamp, more questions, posted by gardenergirl on September 17, 2004, at 12:20:48
My PDoc suggested starting light therapy right after Labor Day. I started in January last year and can't say it was any help, but am hopeful that an earlier start this year will help. I just returned from vacation, so I plan on starting tomorrow. (I'm hoping my new lab pup is accomodating - she likes to chew and eat EVERYTHING. I have to do it in the same room with her or she'll bark and wake up my husband.)
I digress. I have a SunTouch from Apollo and received insurance reimbursement (cost: $250.) My instructions were to not look directly into the light. Also, the Dawn simulators are getting good reviews and would seem to me to be more convenient.
Posted by Craig on September 22, 2004, at 2:13:49
In reply to Re: Got my lamp, more questions, posted by sjb on September 21, 2004, at 9:22:13
I have Blue Cross Blue Shield Master Medical and they denied my claim for an Apollo SunTouch Plus because there is no billing code for a lightbox. The only code is E1399, which is Miscellaneous Durable Medical Equipment, and BCBS won’t accept that. Prior to purchasing the lightbox, I called BCBS and they told me I would be reimbursed if I bought it through a durable medical equipment supplier. So I did that, even though it cost $100 more than the same model was at Costco for $150. No one has been able to provide me with a billing code that BCBS will accept. How were you able to get your insurance company to reimburse you?
------------------------------------------
I have a SunTouch from Apollo and received insurance reimbursement (cost: $250.)
Posted by sjb on September 22, 2004, at 8:23:55
In reply to Reimbursement for a lightbox » sjb, posted by Craig on September 22, 2004, at 2:13:49
I'm sorry to hear you are having difficulties with your reimbursement. I have BCBS, the Traditional Plan, and I purchased my light box directly through Apollo via their website. I submitted a copy of the invoice and a note from my PDoc. Although the approval process took much longer than usual and, I had to call a few times, it was approved. There was no question as to the billing code, they just had some hesitation whether they were going to cover such an item, regardless. Good luck.
Posted by gardenergirl on September 22, 2004, at 20:37:42
In reply to Re: Reimbursement for a lightbox, posted by sjb on September 22, 2004, at 8:23:55
thanks for posting about this. I am hoping to get at least the cost applied to my deductible if they say it could be covered. I see my pdoc in a few weeks and I will ask her to help with that.
And it seems like it is helping. Mood is a bit brighter lately.
gg
Posted by karaS on September 23, 2004, at 1:22:07
In reply to Re: Light box therapy...any current users? » KaraS, posted by Larry Hoover on September 9, 2004, at 18:02:01
> > Thanks for clarifying about the time to use lightboxes. Do you know if it's ok to look directly into them or not? I read that it's preferable but sb417 read that you shouldn't. I wonder if different companies publish different directions. I have a SunBox.
> >
> > -K
>
> My Northern Lights light specifically warns against looking directly at it. I don't think you need the warning. It is just too bright for that.
>
> I forget exactly the language used, but they suggest reading, with the light opposite your book/magazine, for example. In other words, a downward eye position, with the light at or above the horizontal plane. Something like that.
>
> But the Northern Lights light is one of the brighter ones, if I recall correctly.
>
> Lar
I have looked directly at my Sunbox for long periods of time because I could have sworn I read that was preferable in the instructions that came with it years ago. After reading all of the posts here saying not do that, I got very worried that I might have done some damage to my eyes. I e-mailed Sunbox about the issue and got the following reply:----- Original Message -----
> From: The Sunbox Company Customer Service
> To: phyllis.brooks3@verizon.net
> Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2004 7:39 AM
> Subject: re: question
>
>
> No, it is not dangerous, but it probably would be boring to stare into the light for the length of your light therapy session. All our bright lights have both a UV shield and a diffuser (to spread out the light so there aren't any deeply contrasted light and dark spots burning into your retinas...although again it isn't necessary to stare into the light, but it would be safe if you did). As long as the light is shining onto your face, into your open eyes, you don't actually have to be looking directly at it, you can read, work on paperwork, knit, work on a computer, watch TV....
>
> I hope this answers your question. =)
>
> Jennifer
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> The Sunbox Company
> http://www.sunbox.com
> 1-800-548-3968
> 19217 Orbit Dr.
> Gaithersburg, MD 20879
> Local: 301-896-5980
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> > From: "PHYLLIS BROOKS" <phyllis.brooks3@verizon.net>
> > Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 2004 3:44 PM
> > To: info@sunbox.com
> > Subject: question
> >
> > I have one of your lightboxes and I wanted to know if it is dangerous to look directly into the light.
> >
> > Thank you.------------------------------------------------
Still, I think that from now on, to be on the safe side, I'm not going to look directly into the light anymore.
-Kara
Posted by sjb on September 28, 2004, at 9:29:58
In reply to Light box therapy...any current users?, posted by gardenergirl on September 6, 2004, at 3:55:44
april8,
I, too, have fallen apart in the last week or so and I didn't "come out" of my winter depression until last April. At first, I thought it was just a med poop-out (part of the reason, I'm sure), but I think it's also a result of the decreased daylight.
To answer your questions, if I can remember, there are many reputable brands of light boxes. Apollo, NorthernLight are two I can think of off the top of my head, but there are other good ones that are mentioned in this thread. I recommend you read all the entries since you admit you are a "beginner" to light therapy.
Whatever box or dawn simulater you choose, don't delay. They don't help everyone and I'm probably one of the ones that are not helpled but I haven't given up yet. (I first tried mine last Jan, which was probably too late, and my PDoc recommended that I start after Labor Day this year.)
I think you should certainly try it, for at least 20-30 minutes a day for 3-4 weeks. Good luck.
Posted by april8 on September 28, 2004, at 11:29:58
In reply to Re: for april8, posted by sjb on September 28, 2004, at 9:29:58
Thank you, I ran into the APollo one as well and it was a compact one which looked pretty good to . Thank you for your help and feedback. I love this board. I feel like people respond So quickly and really get it.
I am going to try the light box thing!
Posted by gardenergirl on September 28, 2004, at 22:26:26
In reply to Re: for april8, posted by april8 on September 28, 2004, at 11:29:58
april,
I ordered the floor lamp from this site http://www.fullspectrumsolutions.com/light_therapy_products.shtml It came within about 3 days. It may not have as good of a return policy as some of the others do, but I liked that it is dimmable. I have placed it at my bedside so I can use it first thing in the morning. Then when I've done my thirty minutes or so, usually while reading a book, I can dim it down to a much more normal level while I get up and get ready for work.I've noticed I'm feeling better over the last week or so...I think it is at least in part due to the lamp.
Good luck!
gg
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