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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 22 of 22. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by nicko on July 7, 2004, at 3:02:29
Hey all its me again, I'm still using st johns wort and my other vitamins but it really hasn't done much for my anxiety whats so ever.
I've heard alot about SAMe and also noticed that its pretty expensive :( but if it helped I'd pay .lol
so does it help with anxiety or is it mainly for depression?
Can i still take st johns wort or should i ditch it? which im thinking about doing, if i stop st johns wort do i need to taper off it or can i just stop.
If SAMe is good for anxiety what is the recommended dose?Thanks alll
Nicko
Posted by Larry Hoover on July 7, 2004, at 11:47:29
In reply to SAMe, posted by nicko on July 7, 2004, at 3:02:29
> Hey all its me again, I'm still using st johns wort and my other vitamins but it really hasn't done much for my anxiety whats so ever.
>
> I've heard alot about SAMe and also noticed that its pretty expensive :( but if it helped I'd pay .lol
> so does it help with anxiety or is it mainly for depression?
> Can i still take st johns wort or should i ditch it?You can stay on the SJW and try SAMe. Low dose, and increase as tolerated. With all the other nutients you're using, it's a perfect opportunity to try niacinamide, 500 mg per dose, up to four times a day. With the SJW, instead of SAMe.
I really am leary of SAMe. Most often, it is the tosylate salt. Tosylate is a simplified form of the actual chemical name, toluene-sulfonic acid. I don't like the idea that people are taking toluene-sulfonic acid.
> which im thinking about doing, if i stop st johns wort do i need to taper off it or can i just stop.
Probably just stop. If that's uncomfortable, it's a simple matter to take some more, and then reduce more gradually.
> If SAMe is good for anxiety what is the recommended dose?
>
> Thanks alll
> NickoNiacinamide, 500 mg, is my advice.
Lar
Posted by Emme on July 7, 2004, at 21:26:09
In reply to Re: SAMe » nicko, posted by Larry Hoover on July 7, 2004, at 11:47:29
> I really am leary of SAMe. Most often, it is the tosylate salt. Tosylate is a simplified form of the actual chemical name, toluene-sulfonic acid. I don't like the idea that people are taking toluene-sulfonic acid.Is another salt of SAM-e preferable? What is worse about toluene-sulfonic acid than other forms?
> Niacinamide, 500 mg, is my advice.Wow. 100 mg was too much and 50 mg puts me out.
Posted by nicko on July 8, 2004, at 6:30:06
In reply to Re: SAMe » nicko, posted by Larry Hoover on July 7, 2004, at 11:47:29
Ok i will give that a go, just want to make sure its the right stuff as its spelt alittle different here,
Vitamin B3 500mg Nicotinamide
Thats it?
> > Hey all its me again, I'm still using st johns wort and my other vitamins but it really hasn't done much for my anxiety whats so ever.
> >
> > I've heard alot about SAMe and also noticed that its pretty expensive :( but if it helped I'd pay .lol
> > so does it help with anxiety or is it mainly for depression?
> > Can i still take st johns wort or should i ditch it?
>
> You can stay on the SJW and try SAMe. Low dose, and increase as tolerated. With all the other nutients you're using, it's a perfect opportunity to try niacinamide, 500 mg per dose, up to four times a day. With the SJW, instead of SAMe.
>
> I really am leary of SAMe. Most often, it is the tosylate salt. Tosylate is a simplified form of the actual chemical name, toluene-sulfonic acid. I don't like the idea that people are taking toluene-sulfonic acid.
>
> > which im thinking about doing, if i stop st johns wort do i need to taper off it or can i just stop.
>
> Probably just stop. If that's uncomfortable, it's a simple matter to take some more, and then reduce more gradually.
>
> > If SAMe is good for anxiety what is the recommended dose?
> >
> > Thanks alll
> > Nicko
>
> Niacinamide, 500 mg, is my advice.
>
> Lar
Posted by Larry Hoover on July 8, 2004, at 9:35:30
In reply to Re: SAMe, posted by nicko on July 8, 2004, at 6:30:06
> Ok i will give that a go, just want to make sure its the right stuff as its spelt alittle different here,
>
> Vitamin B3 500mg Nicotinamide
>
> Thats it?Same stuff, different naming convention.
Niacin is the same as nicotinic acid (or nicotinate).
Niacinamide is the same as nicotinamide.
Lar
Posted by Larry Hoover on July 8, 2004, at 9:55:49
In reply to Re: SAMe » Larry Hoover, posted by Emme on July 7, 2004, at 21:26:09
>
> > I really am leary of SAMe. Most often, it is the tosylate salt. Tosylate is a simplified form of the actual chemical name, toluene-sulfonic acid. I don't like the idea that people are taking toluene-sulfonic acid.
>
> Is another salt of SAM-e preferable?I believe that there is a tert-butyl salt. Also a butane disulphanate. I see no risk in the alternatives.
Here is a sample from a tosylate supplier:
Which SAM-e should you take?
Be sure to look for SAMe in enteric coated tablet form. Enteric coating ensures the proper and safe absorption of supplemental SAMe by the body. SAM e is available in two salt forms, tosylate and butane disulphanate. While both are stable, the tosylate form is backed by over twenty years of research for safety and effectiveness. In addition the tosylate form is widely used in pharmaceutical products. Nature's Rx, Inc. offers only the tosylate form of SAMe because of it's proven safety record. Nature's Rx enteric coated SAMe tablets are double sealed in a brown plastic bottle for optimum quality, freshness and convenience.> What is worse about toluene-sulfonic acid than other forms?
I just don't see that any intake of toluene-sulfonic acid is justified. It's a totally synthetic material (i.e. we have no natural way to detoxify it, except by fluke), and it has no known health benefits. Quite the contrary. I have never heard of any toluene compound that is safe.
Really, you need to take the following with a grain of salt, as it deals with acute exposure to large amounts of the acid form (not the salt), but still....
From the Material Safety Data Sheet for toluene-sulfonic acid:
Potential Health Effects
----------------------------------Information on the human health effects from exposure to this substance is limited.
Inhalation:
Corrosive. Extremely destructive to tissues of the mucous membranes and upper respiratory tract. Symptoms may include burning sensation, coughing, wheezing, laryngitis, shortness of breath, headache, nausea and vomiting. Inhalation may be fatal as a result of spasm inflammation and edema of the larynx and bronchi, chemical pneumonitis and pulmonary edema.
Ingestion:
Extremely destructive to tissues. May be fatal.
Skin Contact:
Extremely destructive to skin. Causes irritation, redness, pain, and burns.
Eye Contact:
Extremely destructive to eyes. Causes irritation, redness, pain, and burns.
Chronic Exposure:
No information found.
Aggravation of Pre-existing Conditions:
No information found.
> > Niacinamide, 500 mg, is my advice.
>
> Wow. 100 mg was too much and 50 mg puts me out.Thanks for letting me know. I suppose, if Bob permitted signature lines, mine would be something like: "Dosage and scheduling guidelines are simple starting points for determining your own tolerance. Your brain/body may vary."
Lar
Posted by Emme on July 8, 2004, at 22:07:05
In reply to Re: SAMe » Emme, posted by Larry Hoover on July 8, 2004, at 9:55:49
> > Is another salt of SAM-e preferable?
>
> I believe that there is a tert-butyl salt. Also a butane disulphanate. I see no risk in the alternatives.
>
> Here is a sample from a tosylate supplier:
> Which SAM-e should you take?
> Be sure to look for SAMe in enteric coated tablet form. Enteric coating ensures the proper and safe absorption of supplemental SAMe by the body.I've got Nature Made. They're enteric coated. Unfortunately, I have to chop them up because 200 mg is too much. At the moment, I can only deal with 50 or 100 mg. My pdoc and I discussed it briefly and she thought that it would be okay to lose the enteric coating if I can't do the larger dose. From the broken edges, it is awfully bitter - no surprise there. I coat it with butter to make it swallowable.
> > What is worse about toluene-sulfonic acid than other forms?
>
> I just don't see that any intake of toluene-sulfonic acid is justified. It's a totally synthetic material (i.e. we have no natural way to detoxify it, except by fluke), and it has no known health benefits. Quite the contrary. I have never heard of any toluene compound that is safe.
>
> Really, you need to take the following with a grain of salt, as it deals with acute exposure to large amounts of the acid form (not the salt), but still....Okay, so from looking at the MSDS, I won't inhale the acid form. ;) And yes, I guess it would be a bit like comparing the MSDS for NaCl and HCl. But it would be interesting to know what the fate of the tosylate is as it goes through the body.
> > Wow. 100 mg was too much and 50 mg puts me out.
>
> Thanks for letting me know. I suppose, if Bob permitted signature lines, mine would be something like: "Dosage and scheduling guidelines are simple starting points for determining your own tolerance. Your brain/body may vary."Well, my body is just plain ridiculous about it. I need hamster-size doses. It makes the usual dosage guessing games even harder. OTOH, a sample pack of most things goes a long way....
Emme
Posted by nicko on July 10, 2004, at 6:59:34
In reply to Re: SAMe » nicko, posted by Larry Hoover on July 7, 2004, at 11:47:29
Well i took your advice and ordered some B3 500mg tablets, I'll start with one a day and see how i go.
I am still willing to give SAMe a go, you said its ok to take with St johns wort, i currently take 4 SJW which = 1200mg should i reduce that if I'm going to take SAMe as well or will it be ok?
I'm thinking at starting SAMe with half a tablet twice daily..seem ok?
I can't seem to find any information on mixing the 2 so i'm alittle concerned.
Thanks
Nicko
Posted by Larry Hoover on July 10, 2004, at 7:31:04
In reply to Re: SAMe » Larry Hoover, posted by Emme on July 8, 2004, at 22:07:05
> I've got Nature Made. They're enteric coated. Unfortunately, I have to chop them up because 200 mg is too much. At the moment, I can only deal with 50 or 100 mg. My pdoc and I discussed it briefly and she thought that it would be okay to lose the enteric coating if I can't do the larger dose. From the broken edges, it is awfully bitter - no surprise there. I coat it with butter to make it swallowable.Do you feel an effect, from the broken tablets? Usually, enteric coating is to get something past the stomach and its acid. Hydrochloric acid can degrade/digest things you don't want to degrade.
> Okay, so from looking at the MSDS, I won't inhale the acid form. ;) And yes, I guess it would be a bit like comparing the MSDS for NaCl and HCl. But it would be interesting to know what the fate of the tosylate is as it goes through the body.That's really my main concern. Toluene messes up a lot of different things.
> Well, my body is just plain ridiculous about it. I need hamster-size doses. It makes the usual dosage guessing games even harder. OTOH, a sample pack of most things goes a long way....
>
> EmmeMaybe I'm a hamster, too. Probably a bigger hamster than you, though.
Lar
Posted by Emme on July 10, 2004, at 13:12:07
In reply to Re: SAMe » Emme, posted by Larry Hoover on July 10, 2004, at 7:31:04
>
> > I've got Nature Made. They're enteric coated. Unfortunately, I have to chop them up because 200 mg is too much. At the moment, I can only deal with 50 or 100 mg. My pdoc and I discussed it briefly and she thought that it would be okay to lose the enteric coating if I can't do the larger dose. From the broken edges, it is awfully bitter - no surprise there. I coat it with butter to make it swallowable.
>
> Do you feel an effect, from the broken tablets? Usually, enteric coating is to get something past the stomach and its acid. Hydrochloric acid can degrade/digest things you don't want to degrade.I seem to. Although I need to do a more careful "study" this week. It's summer and I've been bad. I've been confounding things a little lately with a few trips to Dunkin' Donuts for iced decaf coffee. Their decaf is usually tame enough stimulation-wise, and if I do get it it's usually later in the day (and not every day). But I should probably stay "clean" for several days in a row to make sure I'm correct.
If I try to go with 200 mg, I'll have make sure I tone down the intensity. It really seemed to trash what little concentration I have. I can see why it's dicey for bipolars. If the aricept works out, it might be a good foil for it.
> > Okay, so from looking at the MSDS, I won't inhale the acid form. ;) And yes, I guess it would be a bit like comparing the MSDS for NaCl and HCl. But it would be interesting to know what the fate of the tosylate is as it goes through the body.
> That's really my main concern. Toluene messes up a lot of different things.
Nervous system included, right? Anyone documented any ill effects from SAM-e that might be attributable to the toluene? And would the amount of toluene in a small SAM-e dose be enough to matter?
> > Well, my body is just plain ridiculous about it. I need hamster-size doses. It makes the usual dosage guessing games even harder. OTOH, a sample pack of most things goes a long way....
> >> Maybe I'm a hamster, too. Probably a bigger hamster than you, though.
Yeah, I suspect so. Everyone is. :) We should start a special board: the Slow Metabolizer's Club, where we can talk about how to use an analytical balance to measure out meds.
Emme
Posted by Larry Hoover on July 12, 2004, at 11:28:06
In reply to Re: SAMe » Larry Hoover, posted by Emme on July 10, 2004, at 13:12:07
> If I try to go with 200 mg, I'll have make sure I tone down the intensity. It really seemed to trash what little concentration I have. I can see why it's dicey for bipolars. If the aricept works out, it might be a good foil for it.It doesn't sound too helpful.
>> > That's really my main concern. Toluene messes up a lot of different things.
>
> Nervous system included, right? Anyone documented any ill effects from SAM-e that might be attributable to the toluene? And would the amount of toluene in a small SAM-e dose be enough to matter?Right, nervous system included. I don't want to make the risk sound exaggerated. I just don't know how big it is or is not. Individual sensitivity to chemicals like toluene vary dramatically.
> > > Well, my body is just plain ridiculous about it. I need hamster-size doses. It makes the usual dosage guessing games even harder. OTOH, a sample pack of most things goes a long way....
> > >
>
> > Maybe I'm a hamster, too. Probably a bigger hamster than you, though.
>
> Yeah, I suspect so. Everyone is. :)Oh, you're a teeny tiny hamster?
> We should start a special board: the Slow Metabolizer's Club, where we can talk about how to use an analytical balance to measure out meds.
>
> EmmeThe biggest problem seems to be doctors who don't comprehend that an effective dose of a med can vary 10-fold or more across the population.
I don't know that people would understand membership in the Hamster Club, without some explaining.
Lar
Posted by Emme on July 13, 2004, at 7:19:07
In reply to Re: SAMe » Emme, posted by Larry Hoover on July 12, 2004, at 11:28:06
>
> > If I try to go with 200 mg, I'll have make sure I tone down the intensity. It really seemed to trash what little concentration I have. I can see why it's dicey for bipolars. If the aricept works out, it might be a good foil for it.
>
> It doesn't sound too helpful.I don't think it'll be helpful on a permanent basis. It seems to have been helpful in getting me more motivated, which I *desperately* needed. It seems like activating things, like selegiline for example, are really helpful for getting me going, but get to be too much after a little while. But I think I'm adding SAM-e to my list of "useful to add in when needed" things.
It seems like many things, with the exception of Lamictal, are useful to me on a more sporadic or as-needed basis. Maybe that's part of the bipolar spectrum my pdoc thinks I sit in. At least the fish oil has the advantage of not causing noticeable SEs.
> >> > Toluene messes up a lot of different things.
> >
>
> Right, nervous system included. I don't want to make the risk sound exaggerated. I just don't know how big it is or is not. Individual sensitivity to chemicals like toluene vary dramatically.If history is any indicator, I should be very sensitive. But short term desperation is overriding other concerns for me. As always, though, it's good to at least be mindful of what you're ingesting.
> > > > Well, my body is just plain ridiculous about it. I need hamster-size doses. It makes the usual dosage guessing games even harder. OTOH, a sample pack of most things goes a long way....
> > > >
> >
> > > Maybe I'm a hamster, too. Probably a bigger hamster than you, though.
> >
> > Yeah, I suspect so. Everyone is. :)
>
> Oh, you're a teeny tiny hamster?We are all just experimental hamsters in the pursuit of mental health. :) But yeah, I'm pretty miniscule. It's annoying. I can't reach anything. But there are advantages. I fit really well into airplane seats and can generally wiggle into small spaces.
> The biggest problem seems to be doctors who don't comprehend that an effective dose of a med can vary 10-fold or more across the population.
Yes. I agree. I'm lucky. My doctor is open minded about when I feel overmedicated and we learned to automatically start me a low doses. She often lets me just go ahead and decide when a dosage needs reducing.
> I don't know that people would understand membership in the Hamster Club, without some explaining.Well, that could be arranged. :) Just like the Flaming Amygdala crowd someone mentioned once over on Social. Friends of mine once jokingly took members for the Angry Whiners. A group of grumpy people frustrated with thesis writing and equipment problems and the like.
Emme
Posted by nicko on July 13, 2004, at 10:08:27
In reply to Re: SAMe, posted by nicko on July 10, 2004, at 6:59:34
anyone?
> Well i took your advice and ordered some B3 500mg tablets, I'll start with one a day and see how i go.
>
> I am still willing to give SAMe a go, you said its ok to take with St johns wort, i currently take 4 SJW which = 1200mg should i reduce that if I'm going to take SAMe as well or will it be ok?
> I'm thinking at starting SAMe with half a tablet twice daily..seem ok?
> I can't seem to find any information on mixing the 2 so i'm alittle concerned.
> Thanks
> Nicko
Posted by Larry Hoover on July 14, 2004, at 8:36:08
In reply to Re: SAMe, posted by nicko on July 10, 2004, at 6:59:34
Somehow, you slipped by me.
> Well i took your advice and ordered some B3 500mg tablets, I'll start with one a day and see how i go.
B3 could be niacin (nicotinic acid), or it could be niacinamide (nicotinamide). Do you know which one you're getting? It really matters.
> I am still willing to give SAMe a go, you said its ok to take with St johns wort, i currently take 4 SJW which = 1200mg should i reduce that if I'm going to take SAMe as well or will it be ok?
Take the smallest dose of SAMe, and take it for at least a week (if tolerated at all) before you even consider moving up one dose level. There is a possibility of interaction. Interaction is not necessarily a bad thing. It's a management issue. People take "drug cocktails" (polypharmacy) all the time, for mood disorders. All I'm saying is, manage it to reduce your risk of a bad reaction.
> I'm thinking at starting SAMe with half a tablet twice daily..seem ok?
Yes.
> I can't seem to find any information on mixing the 2 so i'm alittle concerned.
> Thanks
> NickoDose makes the poison. I recently started on a beta blocker, with a target of 10 mg/day. I could not tolerate 1 mg, developing severe peripheral edema. 1 mg isn't considered to be toxic, but it was intolerable for me. Some people can take 10 mg of that same beta blocker and get no benefit. It is theoretically possible that a little bit of SAMe, with SJW, *might* give an adverse reaction. Very unlikely, but you are concerned, so no problem, you manage the situation closely. Just like my doctor did, giving me 1 mg of the beta blocker to start out. Just discontinue the SAMe if you find it uncomfortable. Wait a couple days, and then try it again. If you get uncomfortable again, then it's probably not a good combination for you. But it might still be worth trying a third time, to remove all doubt. The small dose will not harm you, I can assure you of that. You might not like it, which is also worth assessing, but it will not hurt you.
Lar
Posted by nicko on July 14, 2004, at 8:52:06
In reply to Re: SAMe » nicko, posted by Larry Hoover on July 14, 2004, at 8:36:08
Thanks again Lar,
I will try SAMe slowly, might just start with half a tablet daily and see how i go.
You mentioned the B3 the one I've got is B3 nicotinamide, thats the one yes?
Ty
Nicko
Posted by Larry Hoover on July 14, 2004, at 12:30:15
In reply to Re: SAMe, posted by nicko on July 14, 2004, at 8:52:06
> Thanks again Lar,
>
> I will try SAMe slowly, might just start with half a tablet daily and see how i go.
>
> You mentioned the B3 the one I've got is B3 nicotinamide, thats the one yes?
>
> Ty
> Nickocorrect
Posted by nicko on July 14, 2004, at 22:33:56
In reply to Re: SAMe » nicko, posted by Larry Hoover on July 14, 2004, at 12:30:15
Hi again,
The only problem with the SAMe which i got today, Its coated in something and i dont think i can cut it in half, I'm a bit concerned at talking a whole tablet considering the SJW, any ideas ?
Posted by nicko on July 15, 2004, at 8:34:51
In reply to Re: SAMe, posted by nicko on July 14, 2004, at 22:33:56
Never mind, i took the whole tablet this afternoon (7 hours ago), i was nervous and worried but i felt nothing.lol
So i guess its no a problem> Hi again,
>
> The only problem with the SAMe which i got today, Its coated in something and i dont think i can cut it in half, I'm a bit concerned at talking a whole tablet considering the SJW, any ideas ?
Posted by Larry Hoover on July 15, 2004, at 10:25:56
In reply to Re: SAMe, posted by nicko on July 14, 2004, at 22:33:56
> Hi again,
>
> The only problem with the SAMe which i got today, Its coated in something and i dont think i can cut it in half, I'm a bit concerned at talking a whole tablet considering the SJW, any ideas ?A change of brands....Hmmmmm.
SAMe is marketed with dosage calculated in two ways. One is correct, the other is quite deceptive. The first thing is to clarify the dose.
Brand A might say each tablet contains 200 mg SAMe (as the tosylate), whereas Brand B might say each tablet contains 200 mg SAMe tosylate. The latter is only about 80 mg of SAMe, as it includes the weight of the toluene-sulfonic acid.
If you have confidence that these new pills contain 200 mg SAMe, and that is likely to be too much, then breaking the pill somehow is really the only option. What looks like half is probably half (the dose).
Lar
Posted by nicko on July 15, 2004, at 12:08:36
In reply to Re: SAMe » nicko, posted by Larry Hoover on July 15, 2004, at 10:25:56
Well with most things in this country there are only a few brands that we have both of which cost to damn much.lol
INGREDIENTS:
Ademetionine disulfate tosylate 400mg (equiv. to 200mg SAM-e)
Pyridoxine HCl (Vit B6) 10mg
Cyanocobalamin (Vit B12) 50mcg
Folic Acid 100mcgLike i said i took a whole tablet today and didnt notice anything, should i stick with one tablet or cut it in half?
Thanks again Lar I'd be lost without your advice.
> > Hi again,
> >
> > The only problem with the SAMe which i got today, Its coated in something and i dont think i can cut it in half, I'm a bit concerned at talking a whole tablet considering the SJW, any ideas ?
>
> A change of brands....Hmmmmm.
>
> SAMe is marketed with dosage calculated in two ways. One is correct, the other is quite deceptive. The first thing is to clarify the dose.
>
> Brand A might say each tablet contains 200 mg SAMe (as the tosylate), whereas Brand B might say each tablet contains 200 mg SAMe tosylate. The latter is only about 80 mg of SAMe, as it includes the weight of the toluene-sulfonic acid.
>
> If you have confidence that these new pills contain 200 mg SAMe, and that is likely to be too much, then breaking the pill somehow is really the only option. What looks like half is probably half (the dose).
>
> Lar
>
>
Posted by Larry Hoover on July 15, 2004, at 14:19:14
In reply to Re: SAMe, posted by nicko on July 15, 2004, at 12:08:36
> Well with most things in this country there are only a few brands that we have both of which cost to darn much.lol
>
> INGREDIENTS:
> Ademetionine disulfate tosylate 400mg (equiv. to 200mg SAM-e)
> Pyridoxine HCl (Vit B6) 10mg
> Cyanocobalamin (Vit B12) 50mcg
> Folic Acid 100mcg
>
> Like i said i took a whole tablet today and didnt notice anything, should i stick with one tablet or cut it in half?If a whole one didn't cause a noticeable effect, why would you take a half? Are you talking an extra half tablet?
This brand looks good, with the extra B-vitamins added.
> Thanks again Lar I'd be lost without your advice.
You're welcome. I don't want anybody getting lost. ;-)
Lar
Posted by nicko on July 16, 2004, at 7:13:31
In reply to Re: SAMe » nicko, posted by Larry Hoover on July 15, 2004, at 14:19:14
Hey again Lar,
ignore the half tablet comment, i asked about that prior to trying it, after i tried one I didn't notice alot so im not worried now.
I don't think my stomach likes it very much though.lol But I'll get use to it.
So i guess one tablet would be enough considering the 1200mg of SJW i'm also taking, not to mention all the other Vit lol My house looks like a health food shop.> > Well with most things in this country there are only a few brands that we have both of which cost to darn much.lol
> >
> > INGREDIENTS:
> > Ademetionine disulfate tosylate 400mg (equiv. to 200mg SAM-e)
> > Pyridoxine HCl (Vit B6) 10mg
> > Cyanocobalamin (Vit B12) 50mcg
> > Folic Acid 100mcg
> >
> > Like i said i took a whole tablet today and didnt notice anything, should i stick with one tablet or cut it in half?
>
> If a whole one didn't cause a noticeable effect, why would you take a half? Are you talking an extra half tablet?
>
> This brand looks good, with the extra B-vitamins added.
>
> > Thanks again Lar I'd be lost without your advice.
>
> You're welcome. I don't want anybody getting lost. ;-)
>
> Lar
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