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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 14 of 14. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Simian on December 1, 2003, at 4:29:41
Heres a list of the supplement regime I've put together so far for my OCD and anxiety:
Multivitamin/mineral
L-tryptophan (1-3g before bed)
Inositol (4-6g three times a day)
P5P (50mg with dinner)
Vitamin C (1g three times a day)
Magnesium taurate (100mg three times a day)
Fish Oil (1tsp twice a day)
Picamilon (50mg three times a day)
Grape seed extract (50mg twice a day)
Niacinamide (100mg with dinner)
Octacosanol (4g with dinner)
Borage oil (one capsule (162mg GLA) with dinner)
TMG (500mg with dinner)
Zinc (15mg with dinner)
Selenium (100mcg with dinner)
Chromium (100mcg with dinner)
Methionine (500mg twice a day)
Lecithin (would like dosage recommendations)What do you think?
Any contraindications?
Anything I should add?
Any dosages that could be tweaked?
I'm not on any meds at the moment.
Posted by JLx on December 1, 2003, at 8:35:09
In reply to Supplement regime, posted by Simian on December 1, 2003, at 4:29:41
Posted by Simian on December 1, 2003, at 9:33:56
In reply to Re: How do you feel on that regimen? (nm), posted by JLx on December 1, 2003, at 8:35:09
I haven't started it yet, thats why I'd like opinions.
All I'm taking at the moment is a multi, L-tryptophan, vitamin C, picamilon, niacinamide and zinc.
I don't really feel any better or worse since I started taking them, but I only started them recently.
Posted by JLx on December 1, 2003, at 16:34:26
In reply to Re: How do you feel on that regimen?, posted by Simian on December 1, 2003, at 9:33:56
> I haven't started it yet, thats why I'd like opinions.
> All I'm taking at the moment is a multi, L-tryptophan, vitamin C, picamilon, niacinamide and zinc.
> I don't really feel any better or worse since I started taking them, but I only started them recently.You might want to try the TMG in the morning...some people have found it stimulating and also, you might consider upping the magnesium amount. A good summary by James South, http://www.worldhealth.net/index.php?p=1010
"MAGNESIUM: MINERAL FOR THE MIND
Magnesium (Mg) is the activator mineral for over 300 different enzymes - more than any other mineral. (53) Mg serves as the mineral activator for most of the enzymes of the glycolytic and Krebs’ cycles. (54) Once ATP is produced, it is normally complexed with Mg for stable storage. (55) Mg activates sodium potassium ATPase, the membrane pump which transfers sodium and potassium across neural membranes to allow repeated bursts of electrical nerve activity (56), and which consumes up to 40% of neural ATP. (10) Mg regulates the activity of NMDA glutamate receptors, and thus glutamate nerve activity. (57) Glutamate nerves are the chief excitatory nerves, and are the primary neurons, along with the GABA nerves, in the brain areas connected with attention: the frontal cortex, hippocampus, striatum, thalamus, hypothalamus, and posterior cortex. (58)
Given Mg’s myriad roles in human physiology, it is perhaps not surprising that cellular Mg deficiency leads to a wide variety of symptoms: anxiety, fear, restlessness, poor attention, confusion, memory loss, mood changes including depression, lack of co-ordination, appetite loss, weakness, insomnia, muscle tremors, disorientation, learning disability, apathy, fatigue, heart disturbances, problems in nerve conduction and muscle contraction, muscle cramps, and predisposition to stress, to name just a few! (59 - 62) Note that many of these symptoms are common to ADHD.
Is Mg deficiency common enough to think that it might play a role in difficulties with attention, memory, learning abilities, restlessness, etc.? Actually, most people in the Western world are probably at least marginally Mg deficient. Dietary surveys show women on typical Western diets to average 175-225mg Mg/day, men 225-275mg Mg/day. A typical modern “junk food” diet, consisting primarily of soft drinks, hot dogs, hamburgers, white bread, French fries, cheese, pastries, candy, pizza, snack chips, etc. might fail to provide even 200mg Mg/day. The RDA for Mg has been set at 300-400mg/day. Yet Mg “guru” Mildred Seelig, M.D., has done extensive research which indicates that 8mg/kg bodyweight is probably a more optimal intake level. (63) This would be a 560mg/day requirement for a 70kg (154 pound) person.
In addition, there are many factors that impair intestinal absorption of Mg. High intake of phosphate (common in meat, soft drinks and baked goods) calcium, fat, phytate (found in unleavened bread and wheat bran), lactose (milk sugar), oxalate (found in spinach, rhubarb, chocolate), and alcohol, as well as laxative abuse, all inhibit intestinal Mg absorption. (53, 59, 60) Healthy kidneys may reabsorb up to 95% of Mg before it is lost in the urine, yet many factors promote Mg urinary loss: the stress hormones adrenaline and cortisol, diuretics (including caffeine), some antibiotics, digoxin, alcohol, high sodium/calcium/sugar intake (i.e. the typical western diet) and birth control pills, among others. (53, 59, 64) Thus anyone who lives the typical modern high stress/ high fat and sugar/ high soft drink/ high coffee and alcohol lifestyle may be an appropriate candidate for Mg supplementation, with increased focus, attention, stress resistance, memory and learning powers as possible benefits. However, Mg repletion at the cellular level is a slow process, and may take weeks to months to achieve maximum benefit. Most people can safely and beneficially take 100 - 200mg Mg 2 - 3 times daily (with some at bedtime for insomniacs). If diarrhoea develops, reduce dosage and /or frequency. Anyone with serious kidney disease should check with a nutritionally knowledgeable physician before adding Mg. Best supplement forms are Mg malate, orotate, succinate, taurinate, glycinate and chloride."
Posted by Simian on December 2, 2003, at 1:44:54
In reply to TMG, magnesium » Simian, posted by JLx on December 1, 2003, at 16:34:26
>You might want to try the TMG in the morning...some people have found it stimulating
I'll do that, thanks.
>you might consider upping the magnesium amount
I'm also already getting about 300mg from my multi and vitamin C (magnesium ascorbate).
Do I need more than 600mg a day?
Posted by tealady on December 2, 2003, at 6:01:20
In reply to Supplement regime, posted by Simian on December 1, 2003, at 4:29:41
If you haven't tried it before think I'd start out with less tryptophan..say 500mg a day? then increase as needed, watching for symptoms of too much.
The magnesium dose may be OK, as it is taurate..and there would be some from the mag ascorbate,..and probably some in your multi..as well as some from you diet...and dividing it 3 times a day is good.
Your optimum mix/dose can really in the end only be determined by trial and error as it is so individual, depending on your diet, the nutrients in the soil your diet is sourced from, your own individual metabolism etc.
Are you planning on starting them all at the same time?
Posted by Simian on December 2, 2003, at 6:21:06
In reply to Re: Supplement regime » Simian, posted by tealady on December 2, 2003, at 6:01:20
>If you haven't tried it before think I'd start out with less tryptophan..say 500mg a day? then increase as needed, watching for symptoms of too much.
I took 1g for a few days and felt very anxious and tense in the mornings, but then I forgot to take it last night and still felt very anxious this morning, so I'm not sure if it was the tryptophan or something else. The only other side effect I had was "brain zaps" on the first night of taking it.
>Are you planning on starting them all at the same time?
Well I've already started some of them, but I was going to add the rest at the same time when they arrive.
I know its not the best idea but I'm pretty impatient at the moment.
I might wait and see what the tryptophan does before adding the inositol though.
Posted by Simian on December 2, 2003, at 6:35:26
In reply to Re: Supplement regime » tealady, posted by Simian on December 2, 2003, at 6:21:06
I just found this on some site:
"Trimethylglycine (TMG) is often promoted as more effective than Betaine. However, TMG can generate free radicals."Is that true?
I thought it was an antioxidant.I've also read that it can cause muscle tension.
Is that true?
I certainly don't need any more of that.
Posted by Larry Hoover on December 2, 2003, at 8:27:18
In reply to TMG, posted by Simian on December 2, 2003, at 6:35:26
> I just found this on some site:
> "Trimethylglycine (TMG) is often promoted as more effective than Betaine. However, TMG can generate free radicals."I'm baffled by what they're trying to get across. Betaine and trimethylglcyine are two names for the same molecule. If they're saying that the most common betaine salt, the hydrochloride, is not the same as anhydrous (freebase) trimethylglycine, that's true. Just for the record, it is the latter I speak of whenever I recommend TMG, not betaine hydrochloride.
> Is that true?
The free radical bit has not basis in anything I know of.
You generate free radicals every billion-billionth of a second. That's why you need selenium and zinc and alphalipoic acid and vitimans E and C, and so on....to quench free radicals that escape the mitochondria.
> I thought it was an antioxidant.
It's a methyl donor.
> I've also read that it can cause muscle tension.I have no idea. Tension is a complex phenomenon, often helped by antioxidants and magnesium and calcium.
> Is that true?
> I certainly don't need any more of that.Your individual reaction can only be determined by experiment.
Lar
Posted by JLx on December 2, 2003, at 9:40:06
In reply to Re: TMG, magnesium, posted by Simian on December 2, 2003, at 1:44:54
> >You might want to try the TMG in the morning...some people have found it stimulating
>
> I'll do that, thanks.
>
> >you might consider upping the magnesium amount
>
> I'm also already getting about 300mg from my multi and vitamin C (magnesium ascorbate).
> Do I need more than 600mg a day?No, I was commenting just on the 100 mg mg-taurate 3 x/day.
Posted by Simian on December 3, 2003, at 1:57:12
In reply to Re: TMG, magnesium » Simian, posted by JLx on December 2, 2003, at 9:40:06
Sorry, do you think I should take more mag taurate or will 300mg a day be enough with the 300mg already coming from my multi and vitamin C?
Posted by Simian on December 3, 2003, at 2:06:51
In reply to Re: TMG » Simian, posted by Larry Hoover on December 2, 2003, at 8:27:18
Posted by JLx on December 3, 2003, at 6:38:42
In reply to Re: TMG, magnesium » JLx, posted by Simian on December 3, 2003, at 1:57:12
Posted by Simian on December 4, 2003, at 2:48:54
In reply to Re: Sounds like enough to me. (nm) » Simian, posted by JLx on December 3, 2003, at 6:38:42
Do you think it would be worth me taking an extra B-complex when my multi already contains this:
Thiamin - 50mg
Riboflavin - 50mg
Niacin - 15mg
Niacinamide - 35mg
Pantothenic acid - 50mg
Vitamin B-6 - 50mg
Vitamin B-12 - 100mcg
Folate - 400mcg
Biotin - 150mcg
This is the end of the thread.
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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