Psycho-Babble Administration Thread 723332

Shown: posts 32 to 56 of 136. Go back in thread:

 

Well what if?

Posted by Happyflower on January 18, 2007, at 7:06:34

In reply to Re: allowances ... Deneb and » Dr. Bob, posted by tofuemmy on January 18, 2007, at 6:05:45

A person who is threatening sucide says it is due to because of what her mother said to her?

What if her mother was a babble member? There are hundreds of members who do not post, so do we really know?

So is it okay to threaten sucide due to what her mother said and post it on babble? How is that different than directly and indirectly threatening sucide torwards me if I don't stop ignoring a member (due to my self protection, by the way)
Saying certain things about lets say a president, would be concidered uncivil, right? I don't know the president, maybe he is a member, maybe not. But is seems like the president is protected by so called uncivil actions. Well what about this mother in this case?
Why is this coming up again after all this time? Well because I was blocked for 3 weeks for mentioning (on admin) for behavior that I felt was uncivil torwards me. I feel my post was taken out of context of my entire post. I didn't know the exact rules for reporting about a problem and I have been a member for over a year. It seems like when I did read the rules (before they were changed, again) that we can us admin. board to report these infractions. I included my previous posts of "do not post to me" and showed the posts where I felt I was talked to in a post using my name even. From what my understanding was of the rules at that time was if someone posts to you after you do a "do not post" , they would get a block. I even showed more than one post (on the same thread) where I believe I was mentioned again, and nothing was done.
Well then there would be some that would think well, a deputy didn't post a do not pressure, so even though there was several posts, emails, and chats where this was happening, that person seemed to be cleared.

Well the I see it also as a problem where a deputy does nothing or delays doing something, even if I requested help in the matter on admin. So not saying anything to the person doing the behavior, allows them to do it even more, until they do get a warning. Then they stop the behavior, and after already doing the behavior several times, gets away with it because nothing was done in the appropiate timing.
It seems to me that things will and do get worse when nothing is done in a timely manner. I know deputies can't be everywhere all the time. But in this case there was more than one who read the post, and only did something much too late. I feel my complaint was ignored and then I get blocked for even mentioning the offending behavior (not using any names) torwards me out of frusteration because nothing was being done. Then I get blocked because I am complaining about it. (on admin., which I thought that was what admin. was suppose to be for if youhave a problem with the site). All my other means of reporting was ignored, so I felt I had to put it on admin for it to be taken seriously that I felt harrassed and being treated uncivil. Then I felt ignored when reporting these behaviors, I know i wasn't perfect in reporting them in the perfect way, but I did report it and felt I was ignored. , Then all of sudden there were plenty of duputies to give me a block for compaining about it, while the real reason for my posting was ignored once again.
Then why is this coming up now? Well I wasn't allowed to say anything, was I? I was silenced for 3 weeks. During that time, the same behavior I complained about happened once again.
Is it uncivil for me to say, I am going to kill myself because my mother said something bad to me? What if my mother was a member of this site? Do you know that she isn't?
Does anyone see what I am saying here, or am I wasting my time once again?

 

i understand hf, » Happyflower

Posted by karen_kay on January 18, 2007, at 7:56:05

In reply to Well what if?, posted by Happyflower on January 18, 2007, at 7:06:34

and agree completely with you.

i'm sorry you were blocked. i'm very sorry you feel pressured. and i'm sorry mr bob isn't protecting you, just as he does everyone else. it really doesn't seem fair. everyone knows i'm his favorite, and even i've been blocked in the past.

i hope a final conclusion to this mess is made soon. it really doesn't seem fair that so many people feel pressured (and ignored!).

stay safe hf. and take care of yourself.

 

Re: Well what if? » Happyflower

Posted by justyourlaugh on January 18, 2007, at 8:46:15

In reply to Well what if?, posted by Happyflower on January 18, 2007, at 7:06:34

i am sorry your feelings were not validated..
it takes courage to come back to a place that has caused pain and frustration.
"long live the organization for the organized"

 

I guess for my protection I should add

Posted by Happyflower on January 18, 2007, at 9:07:57

In reply to Re: Well what if? » Happyflower, posted by justyourlaugh on January 18, 2007, at 8:46:15

that any person that feels accused by my posts, is a coincedense and I am sorry if they feel accused or put down for that isn't my intention at all. I just want something better to be down in these situations, because what we do have is not working to protect the innocent.
I also feel like since i didn't report it in the exact perfect way, doesn't mean it should be ignored and nothing done about it. It just seems like I have to jump through hoops in a perfect way or my issue is unvalidated.

 

Re: something better needs to be done-yes Deneb... » Deneb

Posted by one woman cine on January 18, 2007, at 9:18:53

In reply to Re: something better needs to be done-yes, posted by Deneb on January 17, 2007, at 23:50:04

Deneb,

"Can someone point out to me the words that are provocative and distressing? I want the actual quotes. I do believe I was civil. Even if they really are provocative and distressing, it's not uncivil to be provocative or distressing. "

I'm not going to go back and find the post where I said I felt provoked, you can do that - I felt you undertood you were being provocative, can you correct me if I am wrong? I also feel I spent some effort on trying to understand you and not attack you and you "promised to call your pdoc" & then you didn't. I am disappointed. What do you think you will do differently next time?

One can follow the letter of the law, but not the spirit of it...

& I also think you asked the question, do posters feel provoked or distressed by reading "xx" post that is provoking and distressing - the responses to these posts have not been positive and I feel you understand this too.

What do you think you'd like to do differently?

 

Constructive feedback - deneb » Deneb

Posted by one woman cine on January 18, 2007, at 9:22:04

In reply to Re: Dr. Bob, something better needs to be done, posted by Deneb on January 17, 2007, at 23:29:41

"I think feedback is good, but it needs to be constructive: What should I do versus what should I not do? "

The feedback I gave you (to call your pdoc when you OD) was rejected. You did not do that.

I can only offer feedback, you have to make the decision to choose it.

 

Re: Well what if? » Happyflower

Posted by Dinah on January 18, 2007, at 9:28:44

In reply to Well what if?, posted by Happyflower on January 18, 2007, at 7:06:34

Dr. Bob has specifically said that he does and will allow posts with suicidal content.

I do not believe the posts you are referring to fall under the new guidelines, and apparently neither does Dr. Bob, since he passed over the board without comment.

I say things about my therapist on Babble that I wouldn't be allowed to say about another Babbler. It doesn't fall under the civility guidelines. The same thing applies here.

You could try to convince Dr. Bob to disallow all talk of suicidal behaviors, but that is a separate subject.

 

Re: Well what if? » Dinah

Posted by Happyflower on January 18, 2007, at 9:35:03

In reply to Re: Well what if? » Happyflower, posted by Dinah on January 18, 2007, at 9:28:44

Dinah,
I am not saying that sucide behavior shouldn't be allowed. And I think this is the way my orginal post became confused with a lot of other issues and then mine got ignored because of it.

I am only writing about when the sucide is used as a threat to another babbler if they do not comply with the sucidal person. This is the issue, a THREAT AGAINST ANOTHER BABBLER, not sucide itself.
I belive if someone is sucidal and post, I would try to help them the best I can because I care about people. BUT when it is used as a threat against me if I don't do something they ask, then that is totally different.
So I don't want this issue to get mixed up with other ones again. This is different.

 

Accountability - Glydin » Glydin

Posted by one woman cine on January 18, 2007, at 9:35:35

In reply to Re: Dr. Bob, something better needs to be done, posted by Glydin on January 17, 2007, at 22:38:25

"To me, it boils down to accountibility for our behavior.....and it is about expected behavior on the boards and their consequences, it's not personal.... "

This is a wonderful statement - I have been told by my therapist, in dealing with situations that feel negative to me - that every person, no matter mentally ill or not, nned to be accountable for their behavior.

There are consequences as well as accountability. Unfortunately, we can't make people accountable, but we can issue consequences - whether that takes the form of stepping back and not involving yourself, or severing the relationship - I have found that has worked with several "crazy-makers" in my life.

There is less and less room in my life for unhealthy situations and things that trigger me. I don't need to go there and am less and less inclined to do so.

But I really liked your post. Thanks.

 

Re: Well what if? » Happyflower

Posted by Dinah on January 18, 2007, at 9:43:41

In reply to Re: Well what if? » Dinah, posted by Happyflower on January 18, 2007, at 9:35:03

Then the answer is settled. Dr. Bob says tht saying tht it falls under the do not pressure or do not post anything that leads other Babblers to feel accused or put down.

Wasn't it you who asked about mothers? My understanding is that civility guidelines don't apply to mothers unless they are known to be Babblers. (Thank heavens. And no, my mother does not Babble.)

 

Re: Well what if? - Happyflower

Posted by one woman cine on January 18, 2007, at 9:44:14

In reply to Re: Well what if? » Dinah, posted by Happyflower on January 18, 2007, at 9:35:03

Glad to see you posting - although we have not seen eye to eye on some issues; I agree with the basic notion of "suicidal talk" versus "suicidal talk with explicit coercion"

If you don't - I will statements (wishingstar's - thank you for that phrase) feels coercive to me. (BTW - suicidal threats in my experience are almost always corecive - this isn't because the person is bad, it's because it's a coping strategy).

The problem with threats or "attempts" is that it falls off the curve at some point and the person succeeds, although death was not the intended end result. This is tragic, but all too common.

So what to do? I'm not sure...

 

Re: Well what if? » Dinah

Posted by Happyflower on January 18, 2007, at 9:52:05

In reply to Re: Well what if? » Happyflower, posted by Dinah on January 18, 2007, at 9:43:41

>> Wasn't it you who asked about mothers? My understanding is that civility guidelines don't apply to mothers unless they are known to be Babblers. (Thank heavens. And no, my mother does not Babble.)

Well how do we know that our mothers aren't on the site? Or how do we know that it isn't offending other mothers who read about it? We have protection from saying things against the president, and all other kinds of stuff, and the president probably doesn't read here. So the rules are not clear, I believe. But like I said the issue is sucide threats against another babbler. I know the rules now, I just think they need to be better and different. That is why I am posting about this.

 

Re: Well what if? » Happyflower

Posted by Dinah on January 18, 2007, at 10:05:16

In reply to Re: Well what if? » Dinah, posted by Happyflower on January 18, 2007, at 9:52:05

The rules about the president or religions are for the benefit of the supporters of the president or members of the religion, not for the benefit of them specifically.

If you had to follow the civility guidelines when discussing your therapist or your husband at all times, would Babble be a helpful place for you? Would you wish Dr. Bob to issue PBC's or blocks?

 

Re: Well what if? » Dinah

Posted by Happyflower on January 18, 2007, at 10:19:21

In reply to Re: Well what if? » Happyflower, posted by Dinah on January 18, 2007, at 10:05:16

I get your point, and actually we shouldn't probably be allowed to diss our T or DH either to be honest. I always wondered why that was allowed anyways even though it is helpful to get it all out. But didn't Dr. Bob say himself that this isn't the place "get it all out", not exact quote I know.
But I am going to going back to the orginal issue I would like to see changes. What can we do better when a babbler threatenes sucide against another memember. Don't mean to be a pain. In fact, I wasn't going to come back due to this issue, but I am going to try to change things before I give up totally and I am trying my best to be civil. ;-)

 

Thanks everyone for adding to this thread

Posted by Happyflower on January 18, 2007, at 10:28:07

In reply to Re: Well what if? » Dinah, posted by Happyflower on January 18, 2007, at 10:19:21

I think the more Dr. Bob see's that it bothers a lot of babblers, the more likely he might change things for the better. (maybe wishful thinking, I know)
Well I HAVE A DREAM! Well, okay, don't want to get carried away, now.
I really think talking about this will help and that is what I am trying to do.

 

Re: Well what if? ***TRIGGER CSA, SUICIDE** » Happyflower

Posted by ClearSkies on January 18, 2007, at 10:30:13

In reply to Re: Well what if? » Dinah, posted by Happyflower on January 18, 2007, at 9:52:05

> >> Wasn't it you who asked about mothers? My understanding is that civility guidelines don't apply to mothers unless they are known to be Babblers. (Thank heavens. And no, my mother does not Babble.)
>
> Well how do we know that our mothers aren't on the site? Or how do we know that it isn't offending other mothers who read about it? We have protection from saying things against the president, and all other kinds of stuff, and the president probably doesn't read here. So the rules are not clear, I believe. But like I said the issue is sucide threats against another babbler. I know the rules now, I just think they need to be better and different. That is why I am posting about this.
>


What if we post about traumas we have suffered at the hands of others, and they may be posters here themselves? I don't think that the analogy of posting about our mothers and have them possibly be posters here as well would be any different.

There was a very worthwhile thread long ago, initiated by the esteemed Larry Hoover, that addressed trigger notices on posts. I don't understand why, if certain subjects are found triggering, those posts are not avoided. Isn't that the point of putting a trigger notice in the heading in the first place? I think that posts regarding suicide would certainly fall under this guideline. If posts regarding suicide are triggering, then the solution would be to not read them at all.


Surely this is the best protection we can give each other?

ClearSkies

 

Re: Well what if? » Happyflower

Posted by Dinah on January 18, 2007, at 10:34:24

In reply to Re: Well what if? » Dinah, posted by Happyflower on January 18, 2007, at 10:19:21

> What can we do better when a babbler threatenes sucide against another memember.

I guess I haven't been very helpful because I thought I had posted several times that Dr. Bob has already made the changes you requested to address this issue.

So I'll bow out.

 

Re: Well what if? ***TRIGGER CSA, SUICIDE** » ClearSkies

Posted by Happyflower on January 18, 2007, at 10:39:44

In reply to Re: Well what if? ***TRIGGER CSA, SUICIDE** » Happyflower, posted by ClearSkies on January 18, 2007, at 10:30:13

well I am again not talking about regular sucide posts, they don't trigger me, even though I know it does for others.
I am talking about someone threatening sucide if another babbler doesn' t comply to the wishes of the sucidal poster. I am not just talking about posts, I am also talking about doing it in chat and doing through babblemail.
Suicide posts I believe are a good thing, and good way to receive some support and help, as long as they are warned with a trigger for other who it does upset. But again, I am talking abotu direct threats against another babbler. Like for example I said to you, I am going to kill myself if you don't post to me clearskies. Or if we are taking in chat and you are ignoring me for your own protection, and I say I am going to kill myself if you don't respond to me Clearskies. OR I send you babblemails that say,you really make me upset that you are ignoring me, it makes me want to OD. This is what I am talking about. Do you see the difference?

 

Not trying to upset you » Dinah

Posted by Happyflower on January 18, 2007, at 10:42:11

In reply to Re: Well what if? » Happyflower, posted by Dinah on January 18, 2007, at 10:34:24

I don't mean to upset you Dinah, I do see your posts about the changes, and I do appreciate that. All I am trying to say is that it isn't good enough in my view. I feel something better needs to be done.

 

Re: Not trying to upset you

Posted by Happyflower on January 18, 2007, at 10:45:12

In reply to Not trying to upset you » Dinah, posted by Happyflower on January 18, 2007, at 10:42:11

This is why I think it would be best for Dr. Bob to address this as not to upset any deputies or posters.

 

pressure vs. coerce

Posted by muffled on January 18, 2007, at 11:09:00

In reply to Re: Not trying to upset you, posted by Happyflower on January 18, 2007, at 10:45:12

> This is why I think it would be best for Dr. Bob to address this as not to upset any deputies or posters.

**Yeah, this is a tough one.
Sorta the diff btwn. your friend saying I hate you, or waving a knife round saying I gonna do it if you don't do what I want.
I think its the degree of seriousness thats a issue here.
There's pressure, and then there's COERCION.

Main Entry: co·erce
1 : to restrain or dominate by force <religion in the past has tried to coerce the irreligious -- W. R. Inge>
2 : to compel to an act or choice <was coerced into agreeing>
3 : to achieve by force or threat <coerce compliance>
synonym see FORCE

(love that dictionary thing now I found it)

So mebbe if there's pressure, its a DNpressure.
If its coercion, then if there's been any warnings, then it should be considered the direct attack it is and receive a block.
(1 week of course, STILL don't beleive in the escalation business-too fast)

 

ya, and i forgot to say...Bob, not fair

Posted by muffled on January 18, 2007, at 11:15:04

In reply to pressure vs. coerce, posted by muffled on January 18, 2007, at 11:09:00

where the hell are you Bob?
How are you feeling bout this?
Are you feeling upset or pressured?
I'm sorry if so.
But I feel its not fair for you to expect your deputies to deal with something like this. Not fair at all.
Damn this is so complicated cuz people we care bout are getting hurt, and its not so much bout them, as the whole issue we discussing.
Muffled

 

Re: pressure vs. coerce » muffled

Posted by one woman cine on January 18, 2007, at 11:53:02

In reply to pressure vs. coerce, posted by muffled on January 18, 2007, at 11:09:00

Thanks muffled - there is a fine distinction. It's what i tried to say before, but it didn't flesh out as well you did...

 

Re: pressure vs. coerce

Posted by Honore on January 18, 2007, at 12:15:03

In reply to Re: pressure vs. coerce » muffled, posted by one woman cine on January 18, 2007, at 11:53:02

I want to say that I'm very sorry that Happyflower has been so deeply hurt and angered by the situation that lead to her block, and by being blocked.

I need to say one thing, here, that I feel very strongly when reading this series of posts.

I feel that this problem should have been dealt with privately, through an email to Bob, with the information and the description of those things that HF felt were pressuring or whatever word you choose to use.

I've been in situations where I was, to use a word, ganged up on by other people, and this thread, even though I respect the feelings of those who are upset, and don't want to question their motives-- which I think are good-- really feels to me to have a quality of ganging up.

This whole topic and HF's feelings about it were discussed at length before the block. and HF was several times, in my presence, on the chat advised to email Bob privately (as we are asked to do, when the behavior of other posters strikes us as uncivil or otherwise upacceptable).

I know that HF may have important reasons, in herself, for doing this publicly, and I again don't mean to say that these are not to feel safer, and are not primarily to try to make Babble feel safer in general.

But honestly, I don't think this is fair to Deneb.

We all know that Deneb is personally being attacked here. We all know that this ia bout Deneb. To say that it isn't, and to continue to publicly repudiate Deneb's conduct over and over, when the issue has been settled-- as far as the administrative actions on Babble are concerned-- strikes me as having a very unfortunate effect.

If Deneb did anything really untoward after the earlier things she did-- then please, HF, communicate it to Bob privately.

I really am sorry that you're still so hurt and not at peace about what happened. But I do think that Deneb is very sorry for what she did-- I do think she's trying to learn from it.

Remember, it is hard to change and to learn from mistakes. You don't need to forgive or forget, or be friends with her, or be comfortable with her. But please, continue this privately with Bob, or Dinah, or others.

Maybe you can reestablish some sense of safety in that way. You can BMail me-- if you want, too.

But please all of us, let's try to understand how it might feel to someone if so many people are talking about her, in such an angry way, in the third person (for the most part).

Honore

 

Re: something better needs to be done-yes » Deneb

Posted by Poet on January 18, 2007, at 12:28:54

In reply to Re: something better needs to be done-yes, posted by Deneb on January 17, 2007, at 23:50:04

> Can someone point out to me the words that are provocative and distressing? I want the actual quotes. I do believe I was civil. Even if they really are provocative and distressing, it's not uncivil to be provocative or distressing.

Deneb, I felt that in this post you weren't being provocative, but what you said was distressing. What you wrote isn't uncivil, but I perceived it as threatening. If the link doesn't work it's on the eating board.

Poet

http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/eating/20061124/msgs/706825.html



Go forward in thread:


Show another thread

URL of post in thread:


Psycho-Babble Administration | Extras | FAQ


[dr. bob] Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD, bob@dr-bob.org

Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.