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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 24 of 24. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Meltingpot on February 21, 2016, at 12:11:29
I always envy the people who say that the came out of depression/anxiety on their own by changing their lifestyle, diet and thinking positively.
When I became suicidal at the age of 35 my lifestyle was ok. I had been happy the year before, went to the gym regularly, rarely drank alcohol, loved my job, had people in my life who loved and cared about me so I just don't get it. For the life of me I will never really understand why or how I got depressed again. Am I missing something or in denial about something?
Denise
Posted by SLS on February 21, 2016, at 12:58:36
In reply to Is it really a case of mind over matter?, posted by Meltingpot on February 21, 2016, at 12:11:29
> I always envy the people who say that the came out of depression/anxiety on their own by changing their lifestyle, diet and thinking positively.
>
> When I became suicidal at the age of 35 my lifestyle was ok. I had been happy the year before, went to the gym regularly, rarely drank alcohol, loved my job, had people in my life who loved and cared about me so I just don't get it. For the life of me I will never really understand why or how I got depressed again. Am I missing something or in denial about something?I have no idea what you may be in denial of. Probably nothing.
Am I wrong in believing that you have already accepted that you have a biological disorder - a very real disease?
What is your definition of "depression"? What do you think depression is?
Is the depression that occurs when an otherwise healthy person loses their spouse the same thing as the depression that follows mania in bipolar disorder? Which of the two can one work their way out of?
The only thing that you are depressed about is your depression.
- Scott
Posted by Lamdage22 on February 21, 2016, at 13:25:55
In reply to Re: Is it really a case of mind over matter?, posted by SLS on February 21, 2016, at 12:58:36
I hate it when people want to tell me that it is all up to me, all up to my mind, blah blah blah.
Posted by SLS on February 21, 2016, at 13:37:19
In reply to Re: Is it really a case of mind over matter?, posted by SLS on February 21, 2016, at 12:58:36
> The only thing that you are depressed about is your depression.
You are in a bad place right now.
One thing you can do to maximize your chances of getting well and remaining well is to get help to deal with psychological difficulties. CBT often helps people respond to medication for a reason. It reduces psychosocial stress. Your being depressed (thoughts of demoralization, helplessness, and hopelessness) about being depressed is a source of physiological stress that you might be able to mitigate. In addition, old depressive thought styles must be addressed, otherwise they will continue to place pressure on a brain whose resilience is already compromised by the biological vulnerabilities attendant to your disease.
Hold on tight to your memories of remission. They will remind you of how worthwhile life can be. They will also place into better resolution the fact that your brain is not refractory to all possible interventions. Something will work. Keep moving forward...
This is what I am having success with:
Parnate 80 mg/day
desipramine 300 mg/day
Lamictal 300 mg/day
lithium 300 mg/day
Abilify 10 mg/dayHave you tried this exact treatment? If not, how can you logically come to the conclusion that nothing will help?
You are lucky in one major respect. You are not a negative person.
- Scott
Posted by SLS on February 21, 2016, at 13:44:31
In reply to Re: Is it really a case of mind over matter?, posted by Lamdage22 on February 21, 2016, at 13:25:55
> I hate it when people want to tell me that it is all up to me,
People don't realize what a dangerous thing that is to say to someone.
- Scott
Posted by Tabitha on February 21, 2016, at 15:58:54
In reply to Is it really a case of mind over matter?, posted by Meltingpot on February 21, 2016, at 12:11:29
> I always envy the people who say that the came out of depression/anxiety on their own by changing their lifestyle, diet and thinking positively.
Hi again. I just think those people are uninformed about what depression is, and it irritates me that they are making it sound like it's a moral issue, as if they made the correct choices whereas people with depression are making incorrect choices. Sadly, I don't know how to educate people as to what it actually feels like to suffer severe clinical depression.
>
> When I became suicidal at the age of 35 my lifestyle was ok. I had been happy the year before, went to the gym regularly, rarely drank alcohol, loved my job, had people in my life who loved and cared about me so I just don't get it. For the life of me I will never really understand why or how I got depressed again. Am I missing something or in denial about something?
>
>I don't think you're missing some option or in denial. I think that your brain is malfunctioning in a way that creates depression, and it's miserable and unfortunate, but it's largely outside your control.
Posted by Tabitha on February 21, 2016, at 17:14:51
In reply to Re: Is it really a case of mind over matter? » Meltingpot, posted by Tabitha on February 21, 2016, at 15:58:54
An article about the difference between unhappiness and depression
http://freethoughtblogs.com/brutereason/2014/07/05/depression-is-not-sadness-again/
Posted by SLS on February 21, 2016, at 17:44:48
In reply to Re: this explains it reasonably well, posted by Tabitha on February 21, 2016, at 17:14:51
> An article about the difference between unhappiness and depression
>
> http://freethoughtblogs.com/brutereason/2014/07/05/depression-is-not-sadness-again/I'm afraid that I must disagree with the verbiage chosen by the author of the article. Feelings of "sadness" can indeed be a manifestation of a dysfunctional brain, and is a listed in the DSM as a symptom of Major Depressive Disorder. In order for MDD to be diagnosed, one of the following must be present:
1. Feelings of sadness
2. Loss of interestSo, among the "strains" or "flavors" of depression, sadness represents one of them.
Things can get kind of complicated, but not impossible to understand.
http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/depression/basics/symptoms/con-20032977
- Scott
Posted by baseball55 on February 21, 2016, at 20:36:14
In reply to Re: this explains it reasonably well, posted by SLS on February 21, 2016, at 17:44:48
i guess I was kind of "lucky" in that my depression was so severe and caused such extreme changes in my behavior that no one suggested I just go to the gym or go for long walks or whatever. My p-doc wanted me do do DBT and I did and it helped, but when i Fell into deep depressions he and I and the DBT therapist all agreed that this was biological in some sense, no precipitants, no trigger
Posted by rjlockhart37 on February 21, 2016, at 21:09:15
In reply to Is it really a case of mind over matter?, posted by Meltingpot on February 21, 2016, at 12:11:29
i spend from 2010-till now until i embarked to get out of the depression, to get into school and move forward, i realized that this depression ate 6 years of my life, nothing during that period but just same gloom, only thing i looked forward too was maybe a few things, and that was a cause of a situation that happened before, but ill just leave it at that
i realized and woke up seeing that this depression from feeling helpless caused my life to become helpless, i had enough and choose not to wake up everyday to feel the weights and barbels of going through the day with not accompomllishing anything, if i am depressed, i might as well make something productive, and not just "nothing" and be victim from 9am in the morning to 12pm at night of gloom and sadness
wake up and know that getting things done and accomplished even when your depressed will bring a mood in a slightly higher level
Posted by Meltingpot on February 22, 2016, at 2:15:39
In reply to Re: Is it really a case of mind over matter? » Meltingpot, posted by Tabitha on February 21, 2016, at 15:58:54
Hi Tabitha,
Thanks for your response. I guess part of depression is the self doubt and confusion and the feeling that you are just not trying hard enough.
But thanks for reassuring me and it's nice to know that you feel the same way as I do about it.
Denise
Posted by Meltingpot on February 22, 2016, at 2:23:47
In reply to Re: Is it really a case of mind over matter?, posted by SLS on February 21, 2016, at 12:58:36
Hi Scott,
I suppose to me depression is loss of interest, lack of energy, inability to concentrate properly, anxiety, suicidal thoughts, self criticism, inability to think clearly but not sadness.
I suppose I wonder though. When I came off all meds with the help of Zyprexa there were days here and there when I didn't feel too bad and felt almost like my old self but it's the anxiety that seems to come back most of all.
Whilst I was off my meds I signed up to go to a dance class, it's where you dance with lots of different partners and learn different moves. I got back from work and was pacing around my flat, having suicidal thoughts before I went to the dance class. I got to the dance class, with all of these strange people and every part of me wanted to RUN but I stayed and I faked it and I danced with lots of people and for just for a couple of hours I actually enjoyed it and felt almost normal, I think I even laughed. But then I got back home and it was back to the same old depression and anxiety.
Also, another thing, when I was off my meds I went on a date, again I was having suicidal thoughts and I just wanted to get through the date as quickly as possible and be intimate (I still enjoy sex) I went to the cinema with this guy, went for a drink with him afterwards and then sat in his car for a while. Again whilst I was there with him I actually enjoyed myself for a while and I laughed but then I got back home and it was back to normal again.
I guess I just seem to be able to pull myself out of it sometimes and I just wonder if maybe if you keep doing that then the depression and anxiety will be gone for good. But it's so exhausting to have to keep faking it.
Denise
Posted by Lamdage22 on February 22, 2016, at 4:14:29
In reply to Re: Is it really a case of mind over matter? » Lamdage22, posted by SLS on February 21, 2016, at 13:44:31
> > I hate it when people want to tell me that it is all up to me,
>
> People don't realize what a dangerous thing that is to say to someone.
>
>
> - Scott
>
I wonder where they think they have that "knowledge" from.
Posted by SLS on February 22, 2016, at 7:43:52
In reply to To Scott, posted by Meltingpot on February 22, 2016, at 2:23:47
Your depression seems to be mood-reactive. Yes = MAOI.
You feel suicidal for no apparent reason. No = barbiturates.
* Some people experience a withdrawal rebound improvement in depression when antidepressants are discontinued - especially if this is done abruptly. This happens to me with TCA.
- Scott
Posted by SLS on February 22, 2016, at 7:56:02
In reply to Re: Is it really a case of mind over matter?, posted by Lamdage22 on February 22, 2016, at 4:14:29
> > > I hate it when people want to tell me that it is all up to me,
> >
> > People don't realize what a dangerous thing that is to say to someone.
> >
> >
> > - Scott
> >
> I wonder where they think they have that "knowledge" from.People think that everyone's depressions must be the same as their own - they generalize and project and assume that if they can work their way out of it, then you can do it, too.
Depression does not equal depression.
Using one word for two separate human conditions creates confusion and unreasonable expectations.
Depression does not equal biogenic affective dysregulation.
Better? I don't know.
- Scott
Posted by Lamdage22 on February 22, 2016, at 8:17:36
In reply to Re: Is it really a case of mind over matter? » Lamdage22, posted by SLS on February 22, 2016, at 7:56:02
> > > > I hate it when people want to tell me that it is all up to me,
> > >
> > > People don't realize what a dangerous thing that is to say to someone.
> > >
> > >
> > > - Scott
> > >
> > I wonder where they think they have that "knowledge" from.
>
> People think that everyone's depressions must be the same as their own - they generalize and project and assume that if they can work their way out of it, then you can do it, too.That makes a lot of sense.
>
> Depression does not equal depression.
>
> Using one word for two separate human conditions creates confusion and unreasonable expectations.
>
> Depression does not equal biogenic affective dysregulation.
>
> Better? I don't know.
>
>
> - Scott
Posted by Tabitha on February 22, 2016, at 9:57:54
In reply to Re: To Tabitha, posted by Meltingpot on February 22, 2016, at 2:15:39
> Hi Tabitha,
>
> Thanks for your response. I guess part of depression is the self doubt and confusion and the feeling that you are just not trying hard enough.Yes, exactly. I spent the past six months accomplishing just about nothing. I had loads of things to do-- stuff piled around the house needing putting away, projects I wanted to start. Every day I planned to work on it a little, and most days I did exactly nothing. This went on for several months. I thought I was just making poor choices and like you say, not trying hard enough. But when I did try, I got overwhelmed because I could not make simple decisions, and my anxiety ramped up so much that I gave up.
I got a med change and withing a week I am catching up. Simple chores like sorting papers that seemed *impossible* are now so easy I can do them with little effort. It is like night and day. So now I realize that my "not getting things done" was a symptom of depression, it was not a matter of insufficient effort.
>
> But thanks for reassuring me and it's nice to know that you feel the same way as I do about it.
>I am glad it is helpful.
Posted by Hello321 on February 22, 2016, at 12:11:36
In reply to Is it really a case of mind over matter?, posted by Meltingpot on February 21, 2016, at 12:11:29
I'd say it depends on what is causing your mood problems. Sure, meditating, coping skills, eating right and exercising can be very for many conditions. But these things can only go so far in some cases. Just like medication can only help so much in other cases. (Or it might just take you a step or ten back). I think the "Mind over Matter" approach would more successful for situational depression. A good therapist can help you mentally rise above the situation you are in.
But never count out getting more sleep, plenty of sunlight, exercise and eating the right kind of diet.
Posted by Phillipa on February 22, 2016, at 16:49:07
In reply to To Scott, posted by Meltingpot on February 22, 2016, at 2:23:47
Hi Denise, since your depression seems to go away when you are out doing something pleasurable. I'd suggest a regular exercise schedule, like a routine of the dance class & not being alone at home so much. Just my opinion. Phillipa
Posted by Horse on February 22, 2016, at 19:20:22
In reply to Is it really a case of mind over matter?, posted by Meltingpot on February 21, 2016, at 12:11:29
>People think that everyone's depressions must be the same as their own - they generalize and project and assume that if they can work their way out of it, then you can do it, too.
Not realizing the above would trip me up. Believe me, I wanted depression and mood shifts to be something within my control, and I tried for many, many years to find some way of living and thinking that would cure me.
Research is revealing that illnesses currently categorized 'mental
illness' are biological with complex etiologies.Therapy helps me undo compensatory behavior and thinking caused in large part from living with a mood disorder (bipolar) and anxiety disorder untreated until my late thirties. By the time I was diagnosed, I was a wreck!
I'm rambling on here, so the short answer, Denise, is no. Depression is a cruel illness and I wish more people understood it was an illness.
Posted by Tabitha on February 22, 2016, at 20:26:40
In reply to Re: Is it really a case of mind over matter?, posted by Horse on February 22, 2016, at 19:20:22
> Therapy helps me undo compensatory behavior and thinking caused in large part from living with a mood disorder (bipolar) and anxiety disorder untreated until my late thirties.
Hi, Horse. I really like how you put that. I have had the same thought about the role of therapy in treatment but I could never articulate it that well.
Posted by Zyprexa on February 23, 2016, at 4:32:26
In reply to Is it really a case of mind over matter?, posted by Meltingpot on February 21, 2016, at 12:11:29
I was living very healthy when I started to lose my mind. No smoking no drinking, exercise, going to school. I started to get depressed. In 8 months I was in the mental hospital. I had racing thoughts, got prescribed zyprexa but never got it, which is why I ended up in MH.
Ever since then I've been through a litamy of meds and mental health. I go through fazes, living healthy, not living healthy. Never changed my need for meds. When I stoped taking the meds, quit everything unhealthy in life(drinking, smoking, pot) I always end up in serious psychotic mania. Thinking the TV is talking to me, can't go on, can't work, don't leave the house, don't eat, don't sleep. Get very delusional. Going to the doctor in this state I needed a ride and thought I was being paraded and all the cars on the road knew what was going on. I don't know how to explain it. My thoughts get very weird. Also the PTSD is bad. Feelings of imense pain, for the guy who died a long time ago. Just can't go on without the meds. When I go off them its like untraining my brain to act normal. Then when I go back on them its a long process to retrain my brain to think nomal again.
Posted by Zyprexa on February 23, 2016, at 4:40:04
In reply to Re: Is it really a case of mind over matter?, posted by Zyprexa on February 23, 2016, at 4:32:26
Also wanted to say.. There was a time, long, long ago that I waited, and wondered when I will be better. It never came. I learned that better meant when I'm on meds.
Posted by Horse on February 23, 2016, at 11:31:28
In reply to Re: Is it really a case of mind over matter? » Horse, posted by Tabitha on February 22, 2016, at 20:26:40
Thank you :-)
This discussion has me thinking....
This is the end of the thread.
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