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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 13 of 13. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Sebastian Flyte on August 25, 2013, at 1:26:46
I am "different", but only three times have I met a DSM diagnosis for anything as far as I know.
Each time it was major depression, and each time it had the same proximal cause, namely, infatuation with someone unavailable (but perfectly appropriate - a woman my age - I'm a guy).
Is such depression ever treated with something like chemical castration?
Remark: The ultimate cause, from my point of view, was shame regarding my family background.
Posted by alexandra_k on August 25, 2013, at 4:05:31
In reply to A peculiar kind of depression, posted by Sebastian Flyte on August 25, 2013, at 1:26:46
a common side effect of medication is loss of libido. but then a common symptom of depression is loss of libido, too. i don't know that loss of libido would help mend a broken heart. what do you think?
Posted by Sebastian Flyte on August 25, 2013, at 4:19:56
In reply to Re: A peculiar kind of depression, posted by alexandra_k on August 25, 2013, at 4:05:31
Honestly I think that depression, addiction, and anxiety are unlike other mental illnesses --- unavoidable consequences of a rigid class system, inequality, and an economy which excludes so many necessarily.
When psychiatrists talk about the economic cost of depression they sound like a Marxist parody of bourgeois ideologists.
Posted by Phillipa on August 25, 2013, at 9:50:52
In reply to Re: A peculiar kind of depression, posted by Sebastian Flyte on August 25, 2013, at 4:19:56
Situations in life are now it seems classified as depression or other diagnosis all to put you on a pill? Phillipa
Posted by Sebastian Flyte on August 25, 2013, at 17:16:22
In reply to Re: A peculiar kind of depression, posted by alexandra_k on August 25, 2013, at 4:05:31
Not exactly a broken heart, but not not a broken heart.
Frustrated desire.
The second time it was a woman I worked with. We even had adjoining cubicles, so I often overheard her phone conversations whether I wanted to or not. It was like being punched in the stomach over and over again.
Eventually I was too depressed and anxious to do my work, so I quit.
If I'd been a eunuch, maybe this wouldn't have happened,
Posted by linkadge on August 25, 2013, at 20:04:12
In reply to Re: A peculiar kind of depression, posted by Sebastian Flyte on August 25, 2013, at 17:16:22
I hope what I am about to suggest does not trivialize your feelings. Certain kinds of personalities (possibly obsessive) become very focused on one object, goal or obsession. This personality type can become very dissatisfied if that particular goal is not attained.
Its not that the goal is not worthy, or that the feelings are not real. However, the respons to it may be maladaptive, however.
For example, I often find that emotions like obsession, jealosy and depression go hand in hand. Crudly speaking, too much dopamine can create feelings of jealosy, desire, lust and obsession. Serotonin helps balance this out by diminishing desire and enhancing self resiliancy.
In your case, being obsessed with an individual may be normal to a certain extent. If however, this individual is simply put 'unavailable', then
further obsession (to the point of depression) is simply not adaptive. A different personality type would probably 'get over it' sooner. The desire would be toned down, the feelings of 'I can find another' would take over. The individual might be satisfied with a more friendly relationship.If the serotonin goes too high and dopamine too low, then the individual may simply be completely apathetic and not caring about the reciprocated desire of others. They may expeirience little or no desire to be in a relationship with others. They may feel more self sufficient.
Do you need to be 'chemicaly castrated'? No. You don't want to feel nothing. If it is like you say that this individual is *not* an option, then you need to look at other options. There's plenty of fish so they say. I know this is hard when the mind is so obsessed with only one. However, one needs to decide if they want to live a life of suffering or not!
Do you find that you have an obsessive personality in other areas of life? For example, do you become fixated on an object you want to purchase and feel unable to get it off your mind until you buy it?
Clinical depression is clinical depression regardless of the cause. If you get to the point that you are hopless and depressed day after day, it really doesn't matter what the cause is. The fact is that it is unhealty to spend long periods of time depressed. It shrinks your hippocampus! It causes heart disease. It shortens the telomeres!
Find something that helps, medication or otherwise, it doesn't matter.
Linkadge
Posted by linkadge on August 25, 2013, at 20:17:45
In reply to Re: A peculiar kind of depression, posted by linkadge on August 25, 2013, at 20:04:12
It seems that you are focusing on things you want that you can't have. This is a common thought pattern in depression.
For instance, a depressed millionire might complain of failure for not having 30 million like a co-worker he/she is jealous of. Sounds impossible but if the mind is off ballance, then the external is not the problem. The internal tries to convince the individual that the external is the problem.
You can chose to focus on the things you *do* have that make your life worth while. Alternatively, if it is a relationship you desire, you may wish to look outside of your work. Try a relationship website.Pain and pleasure cannot coexist. If you find a lover that meets all of your desires, then you may feel fewer feelings for the other.
This may not be the case however. Certain individuals may have model spouses yet still fall into lust after another.
For a depressive mindset, it is often not about what the individual has, it is what they don't have.
Also, if possible, get a job where you're not in a cubicle. Rumination is more likely if one is in an environment lacking sufficient sensory stimulation. (just a thought).
Linkadge
Posted by Sebastian Flyte on August 25, 2013, at 20:18:49
In reply to Re: A peculiar kind of depression, posted by linkadge on August 25, 2013, at 20:04:12
I've tried every anti-depressant there is. None work.
I agree it is unhealthy to be obsessed with one person, and I agree that this sort of infatuation is something not everyone experiences (that it is a form of insanity), but it's more complicated than that.
When that person is like a mirror, and in her you see yourself as you really are, then what?
One can't change his past. One can't make himself any smarter.
I won't have a tombstone, but if I did it would read:
Killed himself, because he deserved it, and he had really sh**** parents.
Posted by Sebastian Flyte on August 25, 2013, at 20:48:07
In reply to Re: A peculiar kind of depression, posted by linkadge on August 25, 2013, at 20:17:45
Thank you for your comments.
This happened 14 years ago. It hasn't happened since, but...in January, still unmarried, I remembered her. In a dream, if you can believe it.
I fell apart. And eight months later Humpty Dumpty is still broken.
I don't want a relationship, per se. People who go looking for them I don't understand at all. Internet dating? Was that a joke? There is someone for everyone...blah...blah...Who wants someone? There's a Jill for every Jack. Who wants Jill? I'd rather be a Carthusian, and may yet become one.
Men who have affairs are incomprehensible to me. People who look for sex without love are incomprehensible to me.
Your use of "adaptive" really misses the point that what one is expected to adapt to may be artificial.
Psychiatry in the case of depression, addiction, and anxiety plays an ideological role in liberal capitalist societies. That is, there are very good reasons why some people drink too much, kill themselves, are always on edge. But when the pathology is in the society nothing can be done. The pathology must be "discovered" in the individual.
I am now taking mirtazapine (I was thin before), venlafaxine, and amphetamine (for the depression).
The current depression may be related to alcohol, so I'm cutting down. But as that alcoholic media editor for the NYTs, David Carr (?), said, the thing about alcohol is it works.
Posted by linkadge on August 26, 2013, at 9:43:33
In reply to Re: A peculiar kind of depression, posted by Sebastian Flyte on August 25, 2013, at 20:18:49
>One can't change his past. One can't make >himself any smarter.
>I won't have a tombstone, but if I did it would >read:
>Killed himself, because he deserved it, and he >had really sh**** parents.
Ok so this is depression. I wouldn't worry about what kind of depression it is.When you are depressed you focus on the bad stuff. I never knew my mother. She was in and out of mental hospitals my whole life.
Deserved death? I don't think you've killed anyone! Even then, it is debatable about whether somebody deserves death. Ok, so antidepressants suck. What else is new? I've done much better with alternatives.
Nevertheless, you need to call it what it is. Depression.
Can you walk? Can you run?
Linkadge
Posted by linkadge on August 26, 2013, at 10:11:36
In reply to Re: A peculiar kind of depression, posted by Sebastian Flyte on August 25, 2013, at 20:48:07
>I fell apart. And eight months later Humpty >Dumpty is still broken.
Ok so you're taking this hard. Really hard. But, if you convince yourself that this is the *cause* of the depression (rather than a contributing factor), then you are focusing on something that cannot change.
Being gay myself, I am very familiar with wanting things that I cannot have. I meet many people that I really connect with, but unfortunately, they're not gay. I know, too much detail. I'm just saying that I chose to focus on the positive things in my life (like coffee and my dog) and not on the things I can't. Its a logical decision with positive emotional ramifications.
>I don't want a relationship, per se. People who >go looking for them I don't understand at all. >Internet dating? Was that a joke? There is >someone for everyone...blah...blah...Who wants >someone? There's a Jill for every Jack. Who >wants Jill? I'd rather be a Carthusian, and may >yet become one.
I don't understand. You say you've met somebody (the only one) that is suitable. Can you imagine if the Wright Brothers became fixated on only one plane design and were unwilling to make adjustments? Life is about adaptation. People with depression have a hard time with emotional adaptation. I'm not saying its all chemical, but if you're ready to kill yourself because you can't have one particular individual than you must be living an otherwise boring life.
People kill themselves coming off heroin because they feel that life is not worth living without the drug. The will to live is all in the brain.
>Men who have affairs are incomprehensible to me. >People who look for sex without love are >incomprehensible to me.
Are there other social circles where one can meet quality individuals. A church perhaps?
>Your use of "adaptive" really misses the point >that what one is expected to adapt to may be >artificial.
What is artificial? The opposite of what is "real"? What is real? Not to get too matrixesque on you, but humans are always looking for a sense of permanence.
I get it, the brain is wired to want a relationship. I agree that this is natural just like the desire for food. However much I like steak, if steak is unavailable I will settle for pork. I won't kill myself because the first option is not available. Steak is as natural as it comes. But port is also ok.
The will to live comes from within. There are people who live for years in total darkness in solitary confinement. These people experience zero gratification from the external world. Yet, they decide to live based on a desire to preserve the internal.
Based on what I read, you are saying that the internal is not worth salvaging because the external is so crappy. Well change the external and the internal!
>I am now taking mirtazapine (I was thin before), >venlafaxine, and amphetamine (for the >depression).
From my experience venlafaxine / mirtazapine are not great for obsessiveness. Also, amphetamine can *definitely* increase obsessiveness. Amphetamine boosts PEA which is released when one is "in love". It can increase fixation.
Any experience with omega-3 or folic acid?
Is trazodone an option to replace mirtazapine? Mirtazapine can often make rumination / OCD worse.
Linkadge
Posted by Sebastian Flyte on August 26, 2013, at 16:08:44
In reply to Re: A peculiar kind of depression, posted by linkadge on August 26, 2013, at 10:11:36
It is a question few ever come to, but I'm not the only one.
How does one deal with being inferior? Not just at one particular thing or another but in an absolute sense.
I see people all the time of whom I think, "What if they saw themselves as I see them?"
I read about a tweeter/twitterer (?) at Goldman Sachs who merely quotes bits he overhears.
One I agreed with: "In my experience most people should have low self-esteem."
Unlike most I'd rather die than be a "slave", in the broad sense of anyone who has a master or a better.
I really don't understand how 99% of people get out of bed.
Posted by Sebastian Flyte on August 26, 2013, at 16:39:42
In reply to Re: A peculiar kind of depression, posted by linkadge on August 26, 2013, at 9:43:33
"Can you imagine if the Wright Brothers became fixated"
Well life is short and one gives it whatever significance it has. So it is irrational, but I do give this one person significance. It is only too much from the perspective that significance inheres in things. But this is not the case. Significance is given to them by me, you, whoever.
This may be "magical thinking", but it is the truth.
BTW, I found a picture of this woman.
There are cute, pretty, beautiful, and there's Ingrid Bergman and women like her. She was an 11. And smart, and kind, and authentic,...
I know I will never meet anyone like her again and anyone else would be (as Daltry sang) a substitute.
It wouldn't be fair to the sub and I have no interest.
This is the end of the thread.
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