![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 65 to 89 of 96. Go back in thread:
Posted by SLS on February 27, 2012, at 22:03:40
In reply to Re: Lou's request-fenfluramine, posted by SLS on February 27, 2012, at 21:57:09
So that there be no confusion, please note that asenapine is the generic name for Saphris.
I wrote the following in my previous post:
> Fenfluramine is a serotonin releaser that activates many different serotonin (5-HT) receptors. Asenapine acivates only one serotonin receptor - 5-HT1a. The mechanism by which fenfluramine causes adverse heart effects is via 5-HT2b receptor activation. Saphris and fenfluramine are not alike in this respect.
- Scott
Posted by Lou Pilder on February 27, 2012, at 22:10:29
In reply to Re: Lou's request-fenfluramine, posted by SLS on February 27, 2012, at 21:57:09
> > Now in relation to saphris, as to what the drug is and such, and what it can do to the taker of the drug, I would like to introduce in the expsition the drug known as {Fenfluramine}.
>
> Okay.
>
> > Now another drug called {phentermine} combined with (fenfluramine), gives a drug called Phen-fen.
> > This drug has been taken off the market
>
> Also, fenfluramine itself has been taken off of the market.
>
> > because of how it could cause heart disease and death.
>
> Yes. Valvulopathy. Also, pulmonary hypertension if my memory serves me.
>
> Fenfluramine is a dangerous drug.
>
> > Now the drug Saphris activates in one way or another some of the same receptors as fenfluramine.
>
> To the best of my knowledge, this is misinformation.
>
> Fenfluramine is a serotonin releaser that activates many different serotonin (5-HT) receptors. Asenapine acivates only one serotonin receptor - 5-HT1a. The mechanism by which fenfluramine causes adverse heart effects is via 5-HT2b receptor activation. Saphris and fenfluramine are not alike in this respect.
>
> > So if you read the Saphris PI there could be the disclosure of possible agranulosis.
>
> To the best of my knowledge, agranulocytosis is not an adverse effect of Saphris.
>
> Agranulocytosis is listed on the PI only because other drugs in its class have this side effect. Can you prove that a single case of agranulocyctosis has occurred with Saphris? I couldn't find a single case on Medline/Pubmed.
>
> > In the clinical trials, there were many deaths.
>
> To the best of my knowledge, this is misinformation.
>
> Please provide citations for this statement.
>
> Your use of the word "many" is an exagerration.
>
> To the best of my knowledge the 3-post rule still applies. Life is good.
>
>
> - ScottScott,
https://www.druginformer.com/search/side_effect_details/saphris/agranulocytosis.html
Posted by Lou Pilder on February 27, 2012, at 22:18:00
In reply to Lou's reply-agranulocytosis » SLS, posted by Lou Pilder on February 27, 2012, at 22:10:29
> > > Now in relation to saphris, as to what the drug is and such, and what it can do to the taker of the drug, I would like to introduce in the expsition the drug known as {Fenfluramine}.
> >
> > Okay.
> >
> > > Now another drug called {phentermine} combined with (fenfluramine), gives a drug called Phen-fen.
> > > This drug has been taken off the market
> >
> > Also, fenfluramine itself has been taken off of the market.
> >
> > > because of how it could cause heart disease and death.
> >
> > Yes. Valvulopathy. Also, pulmonary hypertension if my memory serves me.
> >
> > Fenfluramine is a dangerous drug.
> >
> > > Now the drug Saphris activates in one way or another some of the same receptors as fenfluramine.
> >
> > To the best of my knowledge, this is misinformation.
> >
> > Fenfluramine is a serotonin releaser that activates many different serotonin (5-HT) receptors. Asenapine acivates only one serotonin receptor - 5-HT1a. The mechanism by which fenfluramine causes adverse heart effects is via 5-HT2b receptor activation. Saphris and fenfluramine are not alike in this respect.
> >
> > > So if you read the Saphris PI there could be the disclosure of possible agranulosis.
> >
> > To the best of my knowledge, agranulocytosis is not an adverse effect of Saphris.
> >
> > Agranulocytosis is listed on the PI only because other drugs in its class have this side effect. Can you prove that a single case of agranulocyctosis has occurred with Saphris? I couldn't find a single case on Medline/Pubmed.
> >
> > > In the clinical trials, there were many deaths.
> >
> > To the best of my knowledge, this is misinformation.
> >
> > Please provide citations for this statement.
> >
> > Your use of the word "many" is an exagerration.
> >
> > To the best of my knowledge the 3-post rule still applies. Life is good.
> >
> >
> > - Scott
>
> Scott,
> https://www.druginformer.com/search/side_effect_details/saphris/agranulocytosis.htmlScott and friends,
Here is the FDA report regarding saphris. It is over 1000 pages so your system may not bring this up. It will take a long time...acrobat
Now I have highlights of the report that I will post later...
Lou
UCM173877
or
UCM123877
Posted by Solstice on February 27, 2012, at 22:26:49
In reply to Lou's reply-agranulocytosis » SLS, posted by Lou Pilder on February 27, 2012, at 22:10:29
> Scott,
> https://www.druginformer.com/search/side_effect_details/saphris/agranulocytosis.htmlInteresting... I used the "death" events filter on this site, and it came up with zero, which is far less than the "many" you reported.
Solstice
Posted by SLS on February 27, 2012, at 22:39:51
In reply to Lou's reply-agranulocytosis » SLS, posted by Lou Pilder on February 27, 2012, at 22:10:29
Not good enough.
Try again.
Or not.
There is only one report to the FDA according to the webpage you cited? I don't believe this website. Why should I? There is no way to verify their claims. Even if this single report exists, you really helped to make a case for the possibility that you exaggerate.
Do you know the difference between misinformation and disinformation? Just curious.
Please feel free to ask me any questions that you would like to have answered along this thread.
- Scottt
Posted by Phillipa on February 27, 2012, at 22:52:19
In reply to Lou's request to Phillipa and Solstice, posted by Lou Pilder on February 27, 2012, at 21:46:53
Lou I'm sorry must decline watching Shoppe at night as I think we are almost on the same time zone. So we sleep at the same time within an hour or so. So sorry. Phillipa
Posted by Lou Pilder on February 27, 2012, at 22:54:00
In reply to Re: Scott's reply-agranulocytosis » Lou Pilder, posted by SLS on February 27, 2012, at 22:39:51
> Not good enough.
>
> Try again.
>
> Or not.
>
> There is only one report to the FDA according to the webpage you cited? I don't believe this website. Why should I? There is no way to verify their claims. Even if this single report exists, you really helped to make a case for the possibility that you exaggerate.
>
> Do you know the difference between misinformation and disinformation? Just curious.
>
> Please feel free to ask me any questions that you would like to have answered along this thread.
>
>
> - ScotttScott,
Saphris is a newer drug so the reports are not many yet as a drug like Prozac. Neutropenia is more eventfull than agranulocytosis, but as more time runs there could be more reports of that event.
Now what is the chemical concerning receptors are the matabolites. This could change things a bit...
Now here is a report that I think could be of help here. I have the report on deaths with saphris in the trials and will put that together later.
Lou
http://circ.ahjournals.org/content/1022/23/2836.full
Posted by Lou Pilder on February 27, 2012, at 22:57:14
In reply to Lou's reply-agranulocytosis » SLS, posted by Lou Pilder on February 27, 2012, at 22:54:00
> > Not good enough.
> >
> > Try again.
> >
> > Or not.
> >
> > There is only one report to the FDA according to the webpage you cited? I don't believe this website. Why should I? There is no way to verify their claims. Even if this single report exists, you really helped to make a case for the possibility that you exaggerate.
> >
> > Do you know the difference between misinformation and disinformation? Just curious.
> >
> > Please feel free to ask me any questions that you would like to have answered along this thread.
> >
> >
> > - Scottt
>
> Scott,
> Saphris is a newer drug so the reports are not many yet as a drug like Prozac. Neutropenia is more eventfull than agranulocytosis, but as more time runs there could be more reports of that event.
> Now what is the chemical concerning receptors are the matabolites. This could change things a bit...
> Now here is a report that I think could be of help here. I have the report on deaths with saphris in the trials and will put that together later.
> Lou
> http://circ.ahjournals.org/content/1022/23/2836.full
corrected:
http://circ.ahjournals.org/content/102/23/2836.full
Posted by Lou Pilder on February 27, 2012, at 23:02:28
In reply to correction- Lou's reply-agranulocytosis, posted by Lou Pilder on February 27, 2012, at 22:57:14
> > > Not good enough.
> > >
> > > Try again.
> > >
> > > Or not.
> > >
> > > There is only one report to the FDA according to the webpage you cited? I don't believe this website. Why should I? There is no way to verify their claims. Even if this single report exists, you really helped to make a case for the possibility that you exaggerate.
> > >
> > > Do you know the difference between misinformation and disinformation? Just curious.
> > >
> > > Please feel free to ask me any questions that you would like to have answered along this thread.
> > >
> > >
> > > - Scottt
> >
> > Scott,
> > Saphris is a newer drug so the reports are not many yet as a drug like Prozac. Neutropenia is more eventfull than agranulocytosis, but as more time runs there could be more reports of that event.
> > Now what is the chemical concerning receptors are the matabolites. This could change things a bit...
> > Now here is a report that I think could be of help here. I have the report on deaths with saphris in the trials and will put that together later.
> > Lou
> > http://circ.ahjournals.org/content/1022/23/2836.full
> corrected:
> http://circ.ahjournals.org/content/102/23/2836.fullcorrection:
http://circ.ahajournals.org/content/102/23/2836.full
Posted by Solstice on February 28, 2012, at 11:34:47
In reply to corection: correction- Lou's reply-agranulocytosis, posted by Lou Pilder on February 27, 2012, at 23:02:28
Lou -
I guess you are aware that your link's Clinical Investigation reiterates what Scott said - that since Saphris is not activating the 5-HT2b receptors, it is not implicated in agranulocytosis.
Solstice
> > > Scott,
> > > Saphris is a newer drug so the reports are not many yet as a drug like Prozac. Neutropenia is more eventfull than agranulocytosis, but as more time runs there could be more reports of that event.
> > > Now what is the chemical concerning receptors are the matabolites. This could change things a bit...
> > > Now here is a report that I think could be of help here. I have the report on deaths with saphris in the trials and will put that together later.
> > > Lou
> > > http://circ.ahjournals.org/content/1022/23/2836.full
> > corrected:
> > http://circ.ahjournals.org/content/102/23/2836.full
>
> correction:
> http://circ.ahajournals.org/content/102/23/2836.full
Posted by Lou Pilder on February 28, 2012, at 12:27:57
In reply to Re: corection: correction- Lou's reply-agranulocytosis » Lou Pilder, posted by Solstice on February 28, 2012, at 11:34:47
> Lou -
>
> I guess you are aware that your link's Clinical Investigation reiterates what Scott said - that since Saphris is not activating the 5-HT2b receptors, it is not implicated in agranulocytosis.
>
> Solstice
>
>
>
> > > > Scott,
> > > > Saphris is a newer drug so the reports are not many yet as a drug like Prozac. Neutropenia is more eventfull than agranulocytosis, but as more time runs there could be more reports of that event.
> > > > Now what is the chemical concerning receptors are the matabolites. This could change things a bit...
> > > > Now here is a report that I think could be of help here. I have the report on deaths with saphris in the trials and will put that together later.
> > > > Lou
> > > > http://circ.ahjournals.org/content/1022/23/2836.full
> > > corrected:
> > > http://circ.ahjournals.org/content/102/23/2836.full
> >
> > correction:
> > http://circ.ahajournals.org/content/102/23/2836.full
>
> Solstice,
In regards to accepting or not as to if one taking Saphris could get agranulocytosis or not, here is a link tthat could be helpful to accepting or not that ine could or could not get agranuloocytosis. Then we could go from there.
Lou
http://doublecheckmd.com/EffectsDetail.do?dname=167374&eid=3093
Posted by Lou Pilder on February 28, 2012, at 12:36:05
In reply to Lou's reply-agranulocytosis-cases » Solstice, posted by Lou Pilder on February 28, 2012, at 12:27:57
> > Lou -
> >
> > I guess you are aware that your link's Clinical Investigation reiterates what Scott said - that since Saphris is not activating the 5-HT2b receptors, it is not implicated in agranulocytosis.
> >
> > Solstice
> >
> >
> >
> > > > > Scott,
> > > > > Saphris is a newer drug so the reports are not many yet as a drug like Prozac. Neutropenia is more eventfull than agranulocytosis, but as more time runs there could be more reports of that event.
> > > > > Now what is the chemical concerning receptors are the matabolites. This could change things a bit...
> > > > > Now here is a report that I think could be of help here. I have the report on deaths with saphris in the trials and will put that together later.
> > > > > Lou
> > > > > http://circ.ahjournals.org/content/1022/23/2836.full
> > > > corrected:
> > > > http://circ.ahjournals.org/content/102/23/2836.full
> > >
> > > correction:
> > > http://circ.ahajournals.org/content/102/23/2836.full
> >
> > Solstice,
> In regards to accepting or not as to if one taking Saphris could get agranulocytosis or not, here is a link tthat could be helpful to accepting or not that ine could or could not get agranuloocytosis. Then we could go from there.
> Lou
> http://doublecheckmd.com/EffectsDetail.do?dname=167374&eid=3093
>
> correction:
http://doublecheckmd.com/EffectsDetail.do?dname=Saphris&sid=167374&eid=3093
Posted by Lou Pilder on February 28, 2012, at 13:51:02
In reply to correction: Lou's reply-agranulocytosis-cases, posted by Lou Pilder on February 28, 2012, at 12:36:05
> > > Lou -
> > >
> > > I guess you are aware that your link's Clinical Investigation reiterates what Scott said - that since Saphris is not activating the 5-HT2b receptors, it is not implicated in agranulocytosis.
> > >
> > > Solstice
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > > > Scott,
> > > > > > Saphris is a newer drug so the reports are not many yet as a drug like Prozac. Neutropenia is more eventfull than agranulocytosis, but as more time runs there could be more reports of that event.
> > > > > > Now what is the chemical concerning receptors are the matabolites. This could change things a bit...
> > > > > > Now here is a report that I think could be of help here. I have the report on deaths with saphris in the trials and will put that together later.
> > > > > > Lou
> > > > > > http://circ.ahjournals.org/content/1022/23/2836.full
> > > > > corrected:
> > > > > http://circ.ahjournals.org/content/102/23/2836.full
> > > >
> > > > correction:
> > > > http://circ.ahajournals.org/content/102/23/2836.full
> > >
> > > Solstice,
> > In regards to accepting or not as to if one taking Saphris could get agranulocytosis or not, here is a link tthat could be helpful to accepting or not that ine could or could not get agranuloocytosis. Then we could go from there.
> > Lou
> > http://doublecheckmd.com/EffectsDetail.do?dname=167374&eid=3093
> >
> > correction:
> http://doublecheckmd.com/EffectsDetail.do?dname=Saphris&sid=167374&eid=3093
>
> Solstice,
Now in relation to blood disorders that could cause death dfrom taking Saphris, as to if the cause of death is neutropenia or agranulocytosis, is an ongoing subject of research. I have shown one case of agranulocytosis and there are cases of neutropenia, that could also cause death.
Now here is a link to that Saphris has had people that take it result in death.
My original concern here was to show the chemical structure of saphris and then others could deceide if saphris is a new drug, or a knock-off of an old drug, on their own.
Now be adviced that Mr. Hsiung has posted here a prohibition to me that prohibits me from showing things from a particular era of time involving the political party then, that if the prohibition was not made to me, I think that lives could be saved because people wanting information about this drug could know what I am prohibited from posting here.
Here is a link to saphris in relation to people taking the drug having death.
Lou
http://www.ehealthme.com/ds/saphris/death
Posted by SLS on February 28, 2012, at 14:21:56
In reply to Lou's reply-agranulocytosis-death, posted by Lou Pilder on February 28, 2012, at 13:51:02
From your link:
Regarding Saphris:
(I added the asterisks for emphasis).
"Agranulocytosis (including fatal cases) has been reported with *other* agents in the class."
The only antipsychotic drug that produces agranulocytosis is clozapine (Clozaril). The entire class of drugs has earned a warning because on this one drug.
Not only is the word "death" used in your subject line an exaggeration of the sequalae of taking Saphris, but your projecting agranulocytosis from clozapine the the rest of the drugs in the class is a generalization that is not born out in fact.
Your posts, as seen here, habitually include:
1. Exaggeration
2. Over-generalizationI have demonstrated this numerous times.
In case you didn't know the difference:* Misinformation: Information that is incorrect.
* Disinformation: Misinformation that is deliberately disseminated in order to influence or confuse or to promote an agenda.
Your statements regarding agranulocytosis and Saprhis are incorrect.
- Scott
Posted by Lou Pilder on February 28, 2012, at 15:26:09
In reply to Re: Lou's reply-agranulocytosis-death » Lou Pilder, posted by SLS on February 28, 2012, at 14:21:56
scott,
This is the aspect that I am attempting to explain, in that Clozaril caused agranulocytosis and then the whole class of those type of drugs is suspect.
Now I have shown a report where one took saphris and got agranulocytosis. I did intend to show the chemical structure of saphris and let people make up their own mind if the drug could cause a blood disease, be it neutropenia or agranulocytosis. The point here is that death is possible from taking saphris and I was going to post the FDA synopsis of the deaths in the trials.
Here is the link to the post here that I posted a link where one got agranulocytosis, and one person getting it does show that it is possible and as time runs, we could see if other reports substantiate that it can happen. The drug is newer on the market so there has not been a great amount of time for reports to be cataloged. I want to post this information here that is factual concerning that there is a case of agranulocytosis from taking saphris and that neutropenia is listed in the PI as a possibility. As to if the one will be more evident going forward, there is still neutropenia listed now.
Here is the link to the post here that has the link to the report of a person with agranulocytosis while taking saphris. If one could get agranulocytosis, that is a warning as I see it for those that are considering taking the drug.
Lou
Here is a link to the post here that has the link to the report
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20120221/msgs/1011866.html
Posted by Lou Pilder on February 28, 2012, at 15:43:29
In reply to Lou's reply-agranulocytosis-death-report » SLS, posted by Lou Pilder on February 28, 2012, at 15:26:09
> scott,
> This is the aspect that I am attempting to explain, in that Clozaril caused agranulocytosis and then the whole class of those type of drugs is suspect.
> Now I have shown a report where one took saphris and got agranulocytosis. I did intend to show the chemical structure of saphris and let people make up their own mind if the drug could cause a blood disease, be it neutropenia or agranulocytosis. The point here is that death is possible from taking saphris and I was going to post the FDA synopsis of the deaths in the trials.
> Here is the link to the post here that I posted a link where one got agranulocytosis, and one person getting it does show that it is possible and as time runs, we could see if other reports substantiate that it can happen. The drug is newer on the market so there has not been a great amount of time for reports to be cataloged. I want to post this information here that is factual concerning that there is a case of agranulocytosis from taking saphris and that neutropenia is listed in the PI as a possibility. As to if the one will be more evident going forward, there is still neutropenia listed now.
> Here is the link to the post here that has the link to the report of a person with agranulocytosis while taking saphris. If one could get agranulocytosis, that is a warning as I see it for those that are considering taking the drug.
> Lou
> Here is a link to the post here that has the link to the report
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20120221/msgs/1011866.htmlFriends,
Here is a warning from the FDA that I think if one considering taking the drug could read it, their life could be saved if they knew this information and had the situation arise to them.
The reaction from saphris could cause death.
Lou
http://www.fda.gov/Drugs/DrugSafety/ucm270243
Posted by SLS on February 28, 2012, at 15:59:24
In reply to Lou's reply-agranulocytosis-death-report » SLS, posted by Lou Pilder on February 28, 2012, at 15:26:09
> This is the aspect that I am attempting to explain, in that Clozaril caused agranulocytosis and then the whole class of those type of drugs is suspect.
On what grounds?
> Now I have shown a report where one took saphris and got agranulocytosis.
No, you haven't.
All you showed is that some private website says there was one instance reported to the FDA. No reference information was given to be able to corroborate this assertion. Medline/pubmed does not report a single case. Even if there were a single case, what does that say about the degree of danger possessed by Saphris. You have actually proven that Saphris is quite safe with respect to agranulocytosis.
Okay.
Enough about Saphris and agranulocytosis. If it occurs, you have proven that it is extremely rare.
- Scott
Posted by SLS on February 28, 2012, at 16:06:29
In reply to Lou's reply--death-report-fda, posted by Lou Pilder on February 28, 2012, at 15:43:29
> Here is a warning from the FDA that I think if one considering taking the drug could read it, their life could be saved if they knew this information and had the situation arise to them.
> The reaction from saphris could cause death.> http://www.fda.gov/Drugs/DrugSafety/ucm270243
Penicillin also produces fatal allergic reactions.
A great number of drugs do.
Where is the danger with Saphris? What is the observed rate of allergic reaction to Saphris? Is it higher than from penicillin?
- Scott
Posted by Lou Pilder on February 28, 2012, at 19:51:39
In reply to Saphris and Agranulocytosis - No risk » Lou Pilder, posted by SLS on February 28, 2012, at 15:59:24
> > This is the aspect that I am attempting to explain, in that Clozaril caused agranulocytosis and then the whole class of those type of drugs is suspect.
>
> On what grounds?
>
> > Now I have shown a report where one took saphris and got agranulocytosis.
>
> No, you haven't.
>
> All you showed is that some private website says there was one instance reported to the FDA. No reference information was given to be able to corroborate this assertion. Medline/pubmed does not report a single case. Even if there were a single case, what does that say about the degree of danger possessed by Saphris. You have actually proven that Saphris is quite safe with respect to agranulocytosis.
>
> Okay.
>
> Enough about Saphris and agranulocytosis. If it occurs, you have proven that it is extremely rare.
>
>
> - Scott
>Friends,
The issue here with saphris as to if it can cause agranulocytosis is not what I intended this thread to be about. I intended to show the chemical structure of the drug, where it came from and what it was used for and then the metamorphosis from the start to the ending up as saphris.
Now one important point is that the drug can cause blood diseases that could be fatal. The aspet of the drug causeing the type of blood disorder that Clozaril caused is mentioned as a warning in the FDA booklet for saphris as that drugs of that class could induce the same conditions. The theory is that the same catagory of drugs could cause the same things to cause death.
Now here is a link that states that saphris can cause agranulocytosis. It goes beyound that Clozaril could cause that because it is a drug like clozaril. It is in the review as you scroll down under adverse effects of saphris.
Since the drug is newer, there could be rapid ongoing changes in product liturature.
Now I intend to show the chemical structure of saphris and then one can decide if saphris is a new drug, or a new name for a knock-off of an old drug and then help people make a better decision as to take this drug or not with the information that I could give here so that lives could be saved, life ruining conditions could be avoided , addiction could be avoided, unless the rule of 3 applies.
Lou
here is the link to the review of saphris
http://www.pharmacistivist.com/2010/January_2010.shtml
Posted by SLS on February 28, 2012, at 20:08:40
In reply to Saphris and Agranulocytosis - No risk-really?, posted by Lou Pilder on February 28, 2012, at 19:51:39
> Friends,
> The issue here with saphris as to if it can cause agranulocytosis is not what I intended this thread to be about.Don't tell me that your thread has been hijacked!
> Now here is a link that states that saphris can cause agranulocytosis.
Where is the link?
> here is the link to the review of saphris
> http://www.pharmacistivist.com/2010/January_2010.shtmlPlease try again.
- Scott
Posted by Lou Pilder on February 28, 2012, at 20:31:29
In reply to Lou's reply--death-report-fda, posted by Lou Pilder on February 28, 2012, at 15:43:29
> > scott,
> > This is the aspect that I am attempting to explain, in that Clozaril caused agranulocytosis and then the whole class of those type of drugs is suspect.
> > Now I have shown a report where one took saphris and got agranulocytosis. I did intend to show the chemical structure of saphris and let people make up their own mind if the drug could cause a blood disease, be it neutropenia or agranulocytosis. The point here is that death is possible from taking saphris and I was going to post the FDA synopsis of the deaths in the trials.
> > Here is the link to the post here that I posted a link where one got agranulocytosis, and one person getting it does show that it is possible and as time runs, we could see if other reports substantiate that it can happen. The drug is newer on the market so there has not been a great amount of time for reports to be cataloged. I want to post this information here that is factual concerning that there is a case of agranulocytosis from taking saphris and that neutropenia is listed in the PI as a possibility. As to if the one will be more evident going forward, there is still neutropenia listed now.
> > Here is the link to the post here that has the link to the report of a person with agranulocytosis while taking saphris. If one could get agranulocytosis, that is a warning as I see it for those that are considering taking the drug.
> > Lou
> > Here is a link to the post here that has the link to the report
> > http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20120221/msgs/1011866.html
>
> Friends,
> Here is a warning from the FDA that I think if one considering taking the drug could read it, their life could be saved if they knew this information and had the situation arise to them.
> The reaction from saphris could cause death.
> Lou
> http://www.fda.gov/Drugs/DrugSafety/ucm270243Friends,
here is an article that I think could be helpful in this discussion.
Lou
To see this:
A. Pull up Google
B. Type in:
[Soulful Sepulcher, saphris]
usually the top one...posted on July 8 2011
Posted by SLS on February 28, 2012, at 20:55:18
In reply to Lou's reply--death-saphris, posted by Lou Pilder on February 28, 2012, at 20:31:29
One thing at a time.
> > Now here is a link that states that saphris can cause agranulocytosis.
> Where is the link?
> > here is the link to the review of saphris
> > http://www.pharmacistivist.com/2010/January_2010.shtml> Please try again.
You promised a link to a review of Saphris that would detail its having caused agranulocytosis. Where is it?
- Scott
Posted by Lou Pilder on February 28, 2012, at 21:58:32
In reply to Lou's reply--death-saphris, posted by Lou Pilder on February 28, 2012, at 20:31:29
> > > scott,
> > > This is the aspect that I am attempting to explain, in that Clozaril caused agranulocytosis and then the whole class of those type of drugs is suspect.
> > > Now I have shown a report where one took saphris and got agranulocytosis. I did intend to show the chemical structure of saphris and let people make up their own mind if the drug could cause a blood disease, be it neutropenia or agranulocytosis. The point here is that death is possible from taking saphris and I was going to post the FDA synopsis of the deaths in the trials.
> > > Here is the link to the post here that I posted a link where one got agranulocytosis, and one person getting it does show that it is possible and as time runs, we could see if other reports substantiate that it can happen. The drug is newer on the market so there has not been a great amount of time for reports to be cataloged. I want to post this information here that is factual concerning that there is a case of agranulocytosis from taking saphris and that neutropenia is listed in the PI as a possibility. As to if the one will be more evident going forward, there is still neutropenia listed now.
> > > Here is the link to the post here that has the link to the report of a person with agranulocytosis while taking saphris. If one could get agranulocytosis, that is a warning as I see it for those that are considering taking the drug.
> > > Lou
> > > Here is a link to the post here that has the link to the report
> > > http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20120221/msgs/1011866.html
> >
> > Friends,
> > Here is a warning from the FDA that I think if one considering taking the drug could read it, their life could be saved if they knew this information and had the situation arise to them.
> > The reaction from saphris could cause death.
> > Lou
> > http://www.fda.gov/Drugs/DrugSafety/ucm270243
>
> Friends,
> here is an article that I think could be helpful in this discussion.
> Lou
> To see this:
> A. Pull up Google
> B. Type in:
> [Soulful Sepulcher, saphris]
> usually the top one...posted on July 8 2011Friends,
Here is an article that I think could help in this discussion.
Lou
http://www.pdr.net/drugpages/concisemonograph.aspx?concise=3066
Posted by Lou Pilder on February 29, 2012, at 4:26:53
In reply to Saphris and Agranulocytosis - No risk-really?, posted by Lou Pilder on February 28, 2012, at 19:51:39
> > > This is the aspect that I am attempting to explain, in that Clozaril caused agranulocytosis and then the whole class of those type of drugs is suspect.
> >
> > On what grounds?
> >
> > > Now I have shown a report where one took saphris and got agranulocytosis.
> >
> > No, you haven't.
> >
> > All you showed is that some private website says there was one instance reported to the FDA. No reference information was given to be able to corroborate this assertion. Medline/pubmed does not report a single case. Even if there were a single case, what does that say about the degree of danger possessed by Saphris. You have actually proven that Saphris is quite safe with respect to agranulocytosis.
> >
> > Okay.
> >
> > Enough about Saphris and agranulocytosis. If it occurs, you have proven that it is extremely rare.
> >
> >
> > - Scott
> >
>
> Friends,
> The issue here with saphris as to if it can cause agranulocytosis is not what I intended this thread to be about. I intended to show the chemical structure of the drug, where it came from and what it was used for and then the metamorphosis from the start to the ending up as saphris.
> Now one important point is that the drug can cause blood diseases that could be fatal. The aspet of the drug causeing the type of blood disorder that Clozaril caused is mentioned as a warning in the FDA booklet for saphris as that drugs of that class could induce the same conditions. The theory is that the same catagory of drugs could cause the same things to cause death.
> Now here is a link that states that saphris can cause agranulocytosis. It goes beyound that Clozaril could cause that because it is a drug like clozaril. It is in the review as you scroll down under adverse effects of saphris.
> Since the drug is newer, there could be rapid ongoing changes in product liturature.
> Now I intend to show the chemical structure of saphris and then one can decide if saphris is a new drug, or a new name for a knock-off of an old drug and then help people make a better decision as to take this drug or not with the information that I could give here so that lives could be saved, life ruining conditions could be avoided , addiction could be avoided, unless the rule of 3 applies.
> Lou
> here is the link to the review of saphris
> http://www.pharmacistivist.com/2010/January_2010.shtmlcorrection:
http://www.pharmacistactivist.com/2010/January_2010.shtml
Posted by SLS on February 29, 2012, at 5:41:42
In reply to correction- Saphris and Agranulocytosis -risk, posted by Lou Pilder on February 29, 2012, at 4:26:53
Mr. Pilder:
This is the article that you linked to:
http://www.pharmacistactivist.com/2010/January_2010.shtml
Please place here a quote from the article you cited detailing how Saphris was determined to causes agranulocytosis.
-> ""
You managed to find an article that simply paraphrases a section of the Saphris package insert. Similar verbiage appears as standard practice for all neuroleptic antipsychotics as a precaution. It does not indicate that Saphris in particular was observed to produce agranulocytosins. Agranulocytosis is only listed as a class effect.
You can see that section of the package insert here:
http://www.rxlist.com/saphris-drug/side-effects-interactions.htm
You will notice that agranulocytosis does not appear anywhere else on the page. It is not listed as an observed side effect - not even a rare one.
The following document is the briefing report produced by the FDA regarding Saphris (asenapine). There is no mention of agranulocytosis anywhere in the document, including the section on reported adverse events.
FDA Psychopharmacologic Drugs Advisory Committee Meeting
It is actually remarkable that agranulocytosis didn't appear just by chance in the patient population.
Saphris does not appear to cause agranulocytosis. Nor do most other antipsychotics. It appears that the class precaution is the result of observing agranulocytosis in a single drug - clozapine (Clozaril).
Further reading:http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15851637
"Agranulocytosis is rare but serious. A few drugs account for two thirds of the cases. Our results also provide reassurance regarding the risk associated with a number of newly marketed drugs"
http://www.medicine.ox.ac.uk/bandolier/band136/b136-5.html
For all cases of agranulocytosis for all causes:
"The overall incidence was 5 cases per million per year"
"Mortality rates due to clozapine-induced agranulocytosis have been reported to be 0.016% to 0.017%"
- Scott
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