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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 20 of 20. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by linkadge on July 17, 2011, at 12:20:35
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/07/110712093856.htm
Posted by europerep on July 17, 2011, at 13:01:04
In reply to cannabanoid CB1 agonists are neuroprotective, posted by linkadge on July 17, 2011, at 12:20:35
hmm, while it's a reasonable conclusion to draw that CB1 agonists are neuroprotective, this is not what that research shows I think. It shows that a lack of CB1 receptors negatively affects memory function etc., but from there to saying that CB1 agonists are neuroprotective, is still a stretch.
Posted by BrainDamage on July 17, 2011, at 15:50:26
In reply to Re: cannabanoid CB1 agonists are neuroprotective, posted by europerep on July 17, 2011, at 13:01:04
I though the research showed that Canniboids were more or less universally neuroprottective?
Am I wrong?
Posted by linkadge on July 17, 2011, at 16:57:50
In reply to cannabanoid CB1 agonists are neuroprotective, posted by linkadge on July 17, 2011, at 12:20:35
A quote:
"This means that the CB1 signal system has a protective effect for nerve cells."
Linkadge
Posted by europerep on July 17, 2011, at 17:06:47
In reply to Re: cannabanoid CB1 agonists are neuroprotective, posted by linkadge on July 17, 2011, at 16:57:50
Well, that's something different than to say that "cannabinoid CB1 agonists are neuroprotective".
Posted by desolationrower on July 17, 2011, at 20:45:12
In reply to Re: cannabanoid CB1 agonists are neuroprotective » linkadge, posted by europerep on July 17, 2011, at 17:06:47
> Well, that's something different than to say that "cannabinoid CB1 agonists are neuroprotective".
not at our current ability to affect the brain, its not.
-d/r
Posted by jono_in_adelaide on July 17, 2011, at 22:19:53
In reply to Re: cannabanoid CB1 agonists are neuroprotective, posted by desolationrower on July 17, 2011, at 20:45:12
The Australian government just banned synthetic canaboloids, sold under such names as "Kronic" as a legal high.
They are no banned under the drug laws, and prohibited imports under the cuastoms laws.
Posted by linkadge on July 17, 2011, at 22:21:16
In reply to Re: cannabanoid CB1 agonists are neuroprotective » linkadge, posted by europerep on July 17, 2011, at 17:06:47
Not really. In order for CB1 receptor signaling to take place, you need a CB1 agonist of some form.
Linkadge
Posted by linkadge on July 17, 2011, at 22:26:09
In reply to Re: cannabanoid CB1 agonists are neuroprotective, posted by jono_in_adelaide on July 17, 2011, at 22:19:53
Thats a shame. Although, I wouldn't reduce the effects to just a legal high. The cannabanoid system is an emerging target for disorders like insomnia, anorexia, depression, pain etc...
Linkadge
Posted by BrainDamage on July 18, 2011, at 4:34:49
In reply to Re: cannabanoid CB1 agonists are neuroprotective » jono_in_adelaide, posted by linkadge on July 17, 2011, at 22:26:09
> Thats a shame. Although, I wouldn't reduce the effects to just a legal high. The cannabanoid system is an emerging target for disorders like insomnia, anorexia, depression, pain etc...
>
Don't get me started!
The Government(s) prohibition of Cannabis/Canniboids has everything to do with Politics & nothing to do with Mental Health!
Posted by europerep on July 18, 2011, at 5:45:34
In reply to Re: cannabanoid CB1 agonists are neuroprotective » europerep, posted by linkadge on July 17, 2011, at 22:21:16
> Not really. In order for CB1 receptor signaling to take place, you need a CB1 agonist of some form.
>
> LinkadgeAt best, the research shows that AEA, 2-AG and other endocannabinoids are neuroprotective. It doesn't say anything about whether administration of, say, THC would have neuroprotective effects. Besides, I don't think that, if lack of CB1 signaling causes memory deficits and so on, this automatically means that introducing exogenous CB agonists in a healthy individual will be neuroprotective. It may be, but that's not what the research aims to show I think.
Posted by SLS on July 18, 2011, at 9:07:00
In reply to cannabanoid CB1 agonists are neuroprotective, posted by linkadge on July 17, 2011, at 12:20:35
I wonder how many people are actually deficient in endocannibinoids or their receptors. It may be that this is a rare condition for which remedial treatment is rarely desirable. How does CB-1 agonists compare to lithium or selegiine for neuroprotection?
I don't like the idea of using marijuana to accomplish neuroprotection. There are concerns regarding long-term impairments of memory and a trigger for psychosis. I tried driving while stoned on marijuana once. I think I was more impaired than I had been on alcohol. Marijuana intoxication is not a benign condition.
- Scott
Posted by Phillipa on July 18, 2011, at 11:15:15
In reply to Re: cannabanoid CB1 agonists are neuroprotective, posted by SLS on July 18, 2011, at 9:07:00
Also I've heard not the same as years ago so much stronger and laced at times with other stuff. Phillipa
Posted by linkadge on July 18, 2011, at 14:38:43
In reply to Re: cannabanoid CB1 agonists are neuroprotective, posted by SLS on July 18, 2011, at 9:07:00
>I wonder how many people are actually deficient >in endocannibinoids or their receptors. It may >be that this is a rare condition for which >remedial treatment is rarely desirable.
Perhaps, or it may be that this system has been underappreciated/underutilized in the treatment of certain disorders.
There is a clear hesitancy towards the study of this system in mood disorders, because of certain euphorogenic potential of cannabanoid agonists. It is the same with the nicotine acetylcholine system. Nicotine has documented neuroprotective effects, especially in terms of dopaminergic system neurotoxicity. This completely extends to exogeniously administered nicotine. However, there is some issue of dependance with nicotine.
>How does CB-1 agonists compare to lithium or >selegiine for neuroprotection?
There are a plethora of different potential avenues for neuroprotection.
>Marijuana intoxication is not a benign condition.
No, but nobody is advocating for a haphazard usage of the substance. I have been more impaired on other prescription medications (taken as directed) that I ever have by alcohol. It was 'legal' for me to drive on amitriptyline, zopcilone and trazodone, however it was an exceedingly risky venture.
The cananbanoid system has direct influence on mood, appetite, sleep and pain perception. The HPA regulating effects of TCA's have been directly linked to the cannabanoid system.
I have been battling treatment resistant, chronic insomnia for years.
All of the treatments that "work" suck miserably in terms of side effects. Amitriptyline seems to be a mainstay, but I am severely impaired by its side effects. Amitriptyline makes me paranoid, gives me cardiac side effects, makes me hung over the next day and disturbs my memory. Benzodiazapines "work" but eventually lead to crippling depression.
I have used marajuanna twice. Yes, it does have side effects, but to be honest, I found them much less harsh than amitriptyline, and I slep great on it. Nobody here is looking for perfection, just improvement.
Linkadge
Posted by Phillipa on July 18, 2011, at 21:41:01
In reply to Re: cannabanoid CB1 agonists are neuroprotective, posted by linkadge on July 18, 2011, at 14:38:43
Neither low doses of benzos nor alchohol ever depressed the opposite I felt full of energy the next day and accomplished a lot with my life!!! Phillipa
Posted by europerep on July 19, 2011, at 6:12:25
In reply to Re: cannabanoid CB1 agonists are neuroprotective » linkadge, posted by Phillipa on July 18, 2011, at 21:41:01
> Neither low doses of benzos nor alchohol ever depressed the opposite I felt full of energy the next day and accomplished a lot with my life!!!
Could you please write full sentences? I have no idea what you're talking about!
Posted by SLS on July 19, 2011, at 8:20:10
In reply to Re: cannabanoid CB1 agonists are neuroprotective, posted by linkadge on July 18, 2011, at 14:38:43
Hi Linkadge.
> I have used marajuanna twice. Yes, it does have side effects, but to be honest, I found them much less harsh than amitriptyline, and I slep great on it. Nobody here is looking for perfection, just improvement.
Marijuana can ameliorate the pain of depression for some people. This would appear to be true according to what I read on this website. I hope that the study of the CB system can yield treatments that produce less harsh side effects than those currently available. There are so many different systems that can be tweaked, though. It may be that the apparent heterogeneity of presentations of depression will always require a heterogeneity of therapeutic targets to treat them. I guess the holy grail would be to find a mutual single target, if one should exist, from which all cases of depression originate.
Desperate times can lead to a drastic lowering of expectations. I reached this point last September. I was ready to accept but only a partial response to antidepressant treatment, and learn to be happy with that. Then, in November, things began to change for me. I began to improve again. Who knows why it took four months for this to happen. Perhaps this was the time necessary for brain tissues to begin to recover. I would say that the rate of recovery for me is maddeningly slow. It is hard to wait so long for so little return. I am convinced that the chronicity and severity of my case require a great deal of time to recover from. Do we expect too much from antidepressants? Maybe we don't expect enough from our doctors. Because of the treatment modality used in my case, I could never use a psychiatrist who refuses to combine a MAOI with a TCA. It's the only thing that works for me.
- Scott
Posted by Phillipa on July 19, 2011, at 20:02:47
In reply to Re: cannabanoid CB1 agonists are neuroprotective » linkadge, posted by SLS on July 19, 2011, at 8:20:10
Just a thought maybe acceptance led to the new recovery phase. I know so hard to be patient after so long. Phillipa
Posted by AlexanderS on July 20, 2011, at 7:29:12
In reply to cannabanoid CB1 agonists are neuroprotective, posted by linkadge on July 17, 2011, at 12:20:35
Cannabis Sativa relieaves my chronic severe depression instantly. It lifts the fog and makes me see in colours. The positive effects continue for next 2-3 days too. The negative effects a minuscule to the positive ones. Psychiatric treatment has done nothing but completely ruin and empty my pockets too.
It's completely evil that this is illegal.
I would smoke it every 2-3 days if I had some, but because it's illegal it's impossible for me to my hands on it and since I've become so limited my ability to float around looking for sellers is more or less non existent.
Cannabis sativa in the right company is brilliant, it should be treated with respect though and people with psychotic disorders would probably do well not to use it at all.
Anyway, Sativa is the only drug so far that has been able to relieve my depression, yet my psycmeds have caused me damage beyond repair and I can't get off them due to withdrawel.
Fantastic world we live in right?
Posted by linkadge on July 21, 2011, at 12:10:31
In reply to Re: cannabanoid CB1 agonists are neuroprotective » linkadge, posted by SLS on July 19, 2011, at 8:20:10
I don't really buy the "neurotrophic theory" for all depression. I think there are specific brain circuts that cause sour moods, depression and pain and its just a matter of modulating them or turning them off.
In some cases of depression, there is evidence of neuroanatomical abnormalities. However, antidepressant induced "neurogenesis" has only been demonstrated in certain brain regions and how this would lead to improvement in depression is uncertain.
Linkadge
This is the end of the thread.
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