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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 23 of 23. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by floatingbridge on October 9, 2009, at 10:51:30
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=113613955
not much, but a start.
fb
Posted by Alexanderfromdenmark on October 9, 2009, at 11:40:39
In reply to cfs virus identified, posted by floatingbridge on October 9, 2009, at 10:51:30
There have been about a dozen viruses linked to ME. Please read this article featuring a doctor who gets people well from ME everyday.
Posted by Alexanderfromdenmark on October 9, 2009, at 11:40:55
In reply to Re: cfs virus identified, posted by Alexanderfromdenmark on October 9, 2009, at 11:40:39
Posted by Phillipa on October 9, 2009, at 13:22:56
In reply to cfs virus identified, posted by floatingbridge on October 9, 2009, at 10:51:30
fb I couldn't get the link to open on my computer must be mine. Doesn't chronic fatigue have swollen glands? Love Phillipa
Posted by floatingbridge on October 9, 2009, at 13:56:25
In reply to Re: cfs virus identified » floatingbridge, posted by Phillipa on October 9, 2009, at 13:22:56
Phillipa, opened for me. Try the NPR site. Article up today, I believe.
fb
Posted by floatingbridge on October 9, 2009, at 14:06:42
In reply to Re: cfs virus identified, posted by Alexanderfromdenmark on October 9, 2009, at 11:40:55
alexanderfromdenmark--
Thanks you--this link was helpful. I had never heard the term ME before.
fb
Posted by Phillipa on October 9, 2009, at 19:53:22
In reply to Re: cfs virus identified » Alexanderfromdenmark, posted by floatingbridge on October 9, 2009, at 14:06:42
FB look what I received in my newsletter today are the same? Love Phippa. Sorry have to do whole article as otherwise can't be seen.
From WebMD Health News
Retrovirus Linked to Chronic Fatigue Syndrome
from WebMD a health information Web site for patients
Daniel J. DeNoon
Find out what the OPTIMAL Forum Steering Committee experts recommend. October 9, 2009 Some 10 million Americans may carry a recently discovered retrovirus now linked to chronic fatigue syndrome.The virus, xenotropic murine leukemia virus-related virus or XMRV, was detected in 67% of 101 patients with chronic fatigue syndrome by Vincent C. Lombardi, PhD, of the Whittemore Peterson Institute in Reno, Nev., and colleagues.
The researchers also found the virus in nearly 4% of healthy comparison subjects -- suggesting that millions of Americans may carry the mysterious virus, which was first detected in prostate cancers.
"The discovery of XMRV in two major diseases, prostate cancer and now chronic fatigue syndrome, is very exciting. If cause and effect is established, there would be a new opportunity for prevention and treatment of these diseases," said Robert H. Silverman, PhD, of Cleveland Clinic's Lerner Research Institute, in a statement emailed to WebMD.
Silverman is on of the team of scientists that first discovered XMRV, and was among the researchers linking the virus to chronic fatigue syndrome and prostate cancer.
It's not yet proven that XMRV actually causes either chronic fatigue or prostate cancer.
In prostate cancer patients, the virus is seen in patients who carry a genetic mutation that disables a key virus-fighting immune response. But the virus is seen in chronic fatigue patients with and without this mutation.
Where did the virus come from? The virus is closely related to a retrovirus that's become part of the mouse genome. Oddly, XMRV cannot infect mouse cells -- but can easily infect human cells.
It's unlikely that so many humans have caught XMRV from mice. It's more likely that the virus is spread from human to human, but how that happens remains to be seen.
An editorial by John M. Coffin of Tufts University, Boston, and Jonathan P. Stoye of the Institute for Medical Research, London, accompanies the Lombardi report in the current issue of the online journal Sciencexpress.
Coffin and Stoye note that if 4% of healthy people truly do carry XMRV, it means that the virus is astonishingly widespread.
"If these figures are borne out in larger studies, it would mean that perhaps 10 million people in the United States and hundreds of millions worldwide are infected with a virus whose pathogenic potential for humans is still unknown," they write.
What is known is that viruses closely related to XMRV do cause many different diseases -- including cancer -- in other warm-blooded animals.
"Further study may reveal XMRV as a cause of more than one well-known 'old disease,' with potentially important implications for diagnosis, prevention, and therapy," Coffin and Stoye suggest.
SOURCES:
Lombardi, V.C. Sciencexpress, Oct. 8, 2009.
Coffin, J.M. and Stoye, J.P. Sciencexpress, Oct. 8, 2009.
Urisman, A. PloS Pathogens, March 2006.
Schlaberg, R. Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, published online before print, Sept. 9, 2009.
Robert H. Silverman, PhD, professor of cancer biology, Cleveland Clinic Lerner Research Institute; email Oct. 8, 2009.
Posted by Phillipa on October 9, 2009, at 19:57:07
In reply to cfs virus identified, posted by floatingbridge on October 9, 2009, at 10:51:30
Fb it opened for me this time guess computer sleeps late as well. I liked yours better. Phillipa
Posted by floatingbridge on October 9, 2009, at 20:46:06
In reply to Re: cfs virus identified » floatingbridge, posted by Phillipa on October 9, 2009, at 19:57:07
Actually Phillipa, I liked yours. But maybe that's because I already had the NPR info in mind already.
fb
Posted by Phillipa on October 9, 2009, at 21:38:29
In reply to Re: cfs virus identified » Phillipa, posted by floatingbridge on October 9, 2009, at 20:46:06
Fb thought your's was more positive this Mary Shoman newsletter came today do you feel it ties in in some way? On it's way. Phillipa
Posted by floatingbridge on October 10, 2009, at 10:10:47
In reply to Re: cfs virus identified » floatingbridge, posted by Phillipa on October 9, 2009, at 21:38:29
I think the npr version sounded more positive because, for one, I don't remember it tying the retro virus to cancer, specifically for now, prostate cancer, which my grandfather died from. It also didn't discuss the contagion element, either. Npr also suggested possible future treatments, like the aids cocktails--but not cures.
Interesting the virus is traced back to mice. What a chemical, biological stew we are!
Will look at the Mary S. newsletter. Thanks!
Do I feel like I have CFS? I don't know--but I sense something is wrong besides my haywire thinking and ptsd. Personally, I am also looking at a wider scope than adrenal fatigue as well. I don't feel that animal adrenal nor cortisol is going to help--at least at this point, and I may most certainly be wrong. I do know personally a few people that have been diagnosed w/ adrenal fatigue and worsened with cortisol treatment. I know my symptoms fit the earmarks of adrenal fatigue. I've decided to do some further western diagnosis before making any treatment commitments.
thanks Phillipa, for following this thread,
fb
Posted by Phillipa on October 10, 2009, at 19:36:04
In reply to Re: cfs virus identified » Phillipa, posted by floatingbridge on October 10, 2009, at 10:10:47
Fb do agree but any hunches what looking for? Phillipa
Posted by bleauberry on October 11, 2009, at 10:26:46
In reply to cfs virus identified, posted by floatingbridge on October 9, 2009, at 10:51:30
Well, anyone here who knows my strong stance on the underplayed link between infectious organisms and chronic illnesses will know that this report comes as no surprise to me. It is just another bit of garthered clues to add to an already heaping pile of them.
Chronic fatigue syndrome is being healed everyday. Symptomatic relief is usually attempted with ADs, stimulants, herbs, diets, and such. They can work, at best, temporarily to improve quality of life. Or they can help in the aftermath when permanent organ damage has taken place.
Without addressing the underlying cause however, CFS and other chronic diseases (Fibro, Depression, MS, Arthritis) have a likelihood of progressing.
The cures are more often than not being found either accidentally or purposely in antimicrobial medicines and herbs. The ones that have a wide spectrum work the best, because it is impossible to identify or test for all the possible organisms. For example, if someone has this particular CFS virus, they likely have more troubles than just that one bug. The weakened body resulting from that CFS virus potentially opens up an opportunistic breeding ground for many others.The best outcomes involve comprehensive plans that address not only broad spectrum unidentified pathogens, but the restoration of immune normalcy and encouragement of tissue repair. For anyone with CFS, that is in my opinion the best chance of recovery.
American medicine falls short in most of these categories, using medicines that are not broad spectrum, having potentially harsh side effects, toxicity and risks, and not suitable for longterm use. Probably the best symptomatic relief agents are found in American medicine, while the curative ones are found in Chinese medicine. A blend of the two offers significantly enhanced outcomes in most cases by those doctors and hospitals that practice it.
Anyway, CFS from a virus? Not at all surprised. Worthy of mention is that CFS is also cured by eradicating Candida, Borellia and its co-inifectors, Mycoplasma, a half dozen others, and by reducing the inflammation cascade. CFS does not have a single cause, virus or otherwise. The presentation looks the same, whether it is a CFS virus or a fungi or bacteria or a protozoa.
I am often puzzled why researchers focus in on one single thing, like a CFS virus. Sorry Mr Scientist, the world and the body are not that simple. But that is the nature of the game, I guess, when it is guided by analytic thinking without the incorporation of experiencial thinking.
Broad spectrum safe nontoxic antipathogens, immune support, anti-inflammation, and supportive symptomatic measures...really not that hard. While we struggle for decades to invent stuff, it's already here. CFS patients have an enormous amount of hope for recovery without waiting for further research on any so-called CFS virus.
Posted by metafunj on October 11, 2009, at 12:44:31
In reply to Re: cfs virus identified, posted by bleauberry on October 11, 2009, at 10:26:46
How can you find out if you have infections like these and what can you do to treat it?
There needs to be a way to verify you have these problems and not just be hypochondriac about it and taking herbs and things you believe might help.
Posted by floatingbridge on October 11, 2009, at 13:25:12
In reply to Re: cfs virus identified, posted by bleauberry on October 11, 2009, at 10:26:46
Bleauberry,
Out of great respect for you, your knowledge, your efforts of healing yourself and coming to terms w/ your illness, and respect for your compassion to others in need, I want to respond to your post.
> Without addressing the underlying cause however, CFS and other chronic diseases (Fibro, Depression, MS, Arthritis) have a likelihood of progressing.
Agreed
>
> The cures are more often than not being found either accidentally or purposely in antimicrobial medicines and herbs. The ones that have a wide spectrum work the best, because it is impossible to identify or test for all the possible organisms. For example, if someone has this particular CFS virus, they likely have more troubles than just that one bug. The weakened body resulting from that CFS virus potentially opens up an opportunistic breeding ground for many others.
>agreed
> The best outcomes involve comprehensive plans that address not only broad spectrum unidentified pathogens, but the restoration of immune normalcy and encouragement of tissue repair. For anyone with CFS, that is in my opinion the best chance of recovery.
>
> American medicine falls short in most of these categories, using medicines that are not broad spectrum, having potentially harsh side effects, toxicity and risks, and not suitable for longterm use. Probably the best symptomatic relief agents are found in American medicine, while the curative ones are found in Chinese medicine. A blend of the two offers significantly enhanced outcomes in most cases by those doctors and hospitals that practice it.
>
Doubly agreed--my current path> Anyway, CFS from a virus? Not at all surprised. Worthy of mention is that CFS is also cured by eradicating Candida, Borellia and its co-inifectors, Mycoplasma, a half dozen others, and by reducing the inflammation cascade. CFS does not have a single cause, virus or otherwise. The presentation looks the same, whether it is a CFS virus or a fungi or bacteria or a protozoa.
>Are you sure?
> I am often puzzled why researchers focus in on one single thing, like a CFS virus. Sorry Mr Scientist, the world and the body are not that simple. But that is the nature of the game, I guess, when it is guided by analytic thinking without the incorporation of experiencial thinking.
>Why puzzled? Isn't that the way has been for some time, with newer thinking really opening up as we speak and holistic approaches finally being embraced by the real scientific theorists? Western science is beginning to see a bigger picture, hence the race to save species in rain forests, for example, to find nature's cures before they are lost forever.
> Broad spectrum safe nontoxic antipathogens, immune support, anti-inflammation, and supportive symptomatic measures...really not that hard. While we struggle for decades to invent stuff, it's already here. CFS patients have an enormous amount of hope for recovery without waiting for further research on any so-called CFS virus.
This passage here I feel undermines the immense efforts you and other have taken to heal themselves in a world of infinite info, alternatives and quacks who peddle cure to the desperate. I, personally, am very interested in the discovery of new pathogens underlying an illness largely thought of as at least half psychological. Did you ever suffer any prejudice, rolling of the eyes, lack of empathy when you struggled with lyme? I know my lyme-positive friends have. And as for me, the answer may seem clear to you, but not for me who writes at this board because I am suffering. I feel that the above passage smacks of condescension and, really, hurts my feelings. Every day I wonder what is in my head, what is in my body? What is under my control, what can I do? I am not gifted w/ a scientific mind. I have seen quacks and now am very leery of 'cures'. However, I persevere w/ my difficult diagnosis--or lack of one, actually, and do the best I can.
Yes, I am interested to hear that a pathogen underlies CFS and a host of other aliments, prostate cancer among them. And yes, I find it interesting to hear it is a retrovirus, similar to aids, that originally came from mice--and I applaud the broad-minded scientists who have done this research. They are exploring just the very terrain I would like them to. What the pharmaceutical industry does with this info in the years to come is a whole other matter. The research remains exciting to me.
Would I love to take a pill and be cured--OMG, yes! But I don't see that in my future. However, western medicine has eradicated diseases that once ravaged humanity--perhaps they have created some as well, but that is beyond my ken.
We all have friends who have had successful cancer treatments using western med. The best outcomes, I feel, are when they are used in conjunction w/ chinese meds and other 'alt' remedies. I have lost friends who used only alternative means to address ailments such as cancer and aids.
Take care Bleauberry. I value your input more than this note might show. Your recent comments on Savella, for example, have me thinking about different western approaches to my situation--and that is only the most recent input I have to thank you for.
Off the soap box now, on onto terra firma,
respectfully,
fb
Posted by Phillipa on October 11, 2009, at 19:26:50
In reply to Re: cfs virus identified » bleauberry, posted by floatingbridge on October 11, 2009, at 13:25:12
Fb beautifully written. Love Phillipa
Posted by bleauberry on October 11, 2009, at 19:47:32
In reply to Re: cfs virus identified » bleauberry, posted by metafunj on October 11, 2009, at 12:44:31
> How can you find out if you have infections like these and what can you do to treat it?
>
> There needs to be a way to verify you have these problems and not just be hypochondriac about it and taking herbs and things you believe might help.
>
>Excellent questions.
Hypochondriac? Not! Since when is trying to figure out what is wrong make someone a friek? It is more often the doctor's who are the frieks by not accepting there is more to science and medicine than they learned in their textbooks.
A handful of herbs are extremely potent antimicrobials. Some are specific for bacteria, some for fungi, and some broad spectrum for everything including viruses. The worst cases of Hepatitis virus, chronic late stage Lyme, Babesia, Syphilis, Malaria, and Leprosy can be cured with amazingly high cure rates ranging from 50% to 100%. Along with them go the myriad of other organisms you've probably never heard of but as just as destructive. I have the statistics on the clinical hospital studies that did these if you want them.
If you are infected with something, you don't automatically start getting better when you starting taking something that kills them. In fact, you will get a lot worse. That is called a Herxheimer reaction...the immune system overloaded with debris, toxins, and corpses.
The Herxheimer is the diagnosis. It confirms a suspicion or a hunch. Lab tests are either nonexistent or nonreliable. There is no way you could afford to test for every possibility even if the tests existed. Even if they did, false negatives would likely still be a major problem. You may never know exactly which of maybe 100 different infections you had, and it doesn't matter. All that matters is that your symptoms go away.
That's why it is important to challenge with a broad spectrum potent substance that is safe, non-toxic, suitable for longterm use, has a history of several hundred years, has been clinically tested by modern science, and has not developed microbial resistance in hundreds of years. A few herbs fit that description.
These things unfortunately fell out of favor when big pharm came on the scene. The goal then became profit, science, and politics. Nobody can make a multimillion dollar corporation selling plants. Syphilis and malaria and leprosy were cured hundreds of years ago without meds and still are today. Antibiotic resistant Lyme patients are cured with these same herbs.
So you asked how to verify it. Easy. Take one or two of these specific herbs or combos, see what happens. For someone not infected, these herbs are no more potent than food and have no side effects. For someone infected, they will feel like a nuclear bomb. Diagnosis made. It doesn't matter what the organism is. You already found the agent to deal with it. As a side benefit, that same agent is going to wipe out dozens of other possibilities as well. You'll never know which one...but likely more than one...were plaguing your health and mind.
And when you're feeling better, does it really matter? Herxheimer is your lab test.
Posted by bleauberry on October 11, 2009, at 20:04:14
In reply to Re: cfs virus identified » bleauberry, posted by floatingbridge on October 11, 2009, at 13:25:12
>
> > Anyway, CFS from a virus? Not at all surprised. Worthy of mention is that CFS is also cured by eradicating Candida, Borellia and its co-inifectors, Mycoplasma, a half dozen others, and by reducing the inflammation cascade. CFS does not have a single cause, virus or otherwise. The presentation looks the same, whether it is a CFS virus or a fungi or bacteria or a protozoa.
> >
>
> Are you sure?Well, I am fairly sure. I say that because my own doctor has had dozens of patients who came to him with a diagnosis of CFS from multiple previous doctors. Their CFS was cured with antibiotics and/or antifungals. I mean, those things don't kill viruses. That's just one doctor in a small town. Hundreds of doctors and thousands of patients with all kinds of mysterious diseases are being accidentally improved or healed by way of anti-microbials.
>
> > I am often puzzled why researchers focus in on one single thing, like a CFS virus. Sorry Mr Scientist, the world and the body are not that simple. But that is the nature of the game, I guess, when it is guided by analytic thinking without the incorporation of experiencial thinking.
> >
>
> Why puzzled? Isn't that the way has been for some time, with newer thinking really opening up as we speak and holistic approaches finally being embraced by the real scientific theorists? Western science is beginning to see a bigger picture, hence the race to save species in rain forests, for example, to find nature's cures before they are lost forever.Good point. I'm glad to see things go forward, or backward, whichever way you look at it. Heck, Malaria, Syphilis, and Leprosy were cured with plants long before big pharm came along, and today still hold cure rates equal to or higher than the meds.
>
> > Broad spectrum safe nontoxic antipathogens, immune support, anti-inflammation, and supportive symptomatic measures...really not that hard. While we struggle for decades to invent stuff, it's already here. CFS patients have an enormous amount of hope for recovery without waiting for further research on any so-called CFS virus.
>
> This passage here I feel undermines the immense efforts you and other have taken to heal themselves in a world of infinite info, alternatives and quacks who peddle cure to the desperate. I, personally, am very interested in the discovery of new pathogens underlying an illness largely thought of as at least half psychological. Did you ever suffer any prejudice, rolling of the eyes, lack of empathy when you struggled with lyme?YES!!!
I know my lyme-positive friends have. And as for me, the answer may seem clear to you, but not for me who writes at this board because I am suffering. I feel that the above passage smacks of condescension and, really, hurts my feelings. Every day I wonder what is in my head, what is in my body? What is under my control, what can I do? I am not gifted w/ a scientific mind.
That may be a GOOD thing. What we want are minds with experience, not analytics. Those kinds of doctors exist.
I have seen quacks and now am very leery of 'cures'.
Oh yeah, me too. Plenty. I won't even go into the Colloidal Silver thing or the various herbal heavy metal detox scams. What I want is a real MD, not a theorist, not a seller, who has a track record of at least 1000 patients and at a high cure rate. This person has probably been in practice for at least 40 years.
However, I persevere w/ my difficult diagnosis--or lack of one, actually, and do the best I can.
>
> Yes, I am interested to hear that a pathogen underlies CFS and a host of other aliments, prostate cancer among them. And yes, I find it interesting to hear it is a retrovirus, similar to aids, that originally came from mice--and I applaud the broad-minded scientists who have done this research. They are exploring just the very terrain I would like them to. What the pharmaceutical industry does with this info in the years to come is a whole other matter. The research remains exciting to me.The research is exciting. We need more of it. There is too much we don't know. But until then, we actually do have mountains of experience that is generally ignored on this side of the world.
>
> Would I love to take a pill and be cured--OMG, yes! But I don't see that in my future. However, western medicine has eradicated diseases that once ravaged humanity--perhaps they have created some as well, but that is beyond my ken.Well, yeah, cure usually takes longer. But can a plant pill revive you 50% in a single day? Yes. I have felt it. It is not a pipedream.
>
> We all have friends who have had successful cancer treatments using western med. The best outcomes, I feel, are when they are used in conjunction w/ chinese meds and other 'alt' remedies. I have lost friends who used only alternative means to address ailments such as cancer and aids.I believe the marriage of Traditional Chinese Medicine with Modern Western Medicine into a new category called Modern Chinese Medicine has better outcomes than either alone. Both have their strengths and weaknesses. We can harness the strengths of both to overcome the weaknesses of the other.
>
> Take care Bleauberry. I value your input more than this note might show. Your recent comments on Savella, for example, have me thinking about different western approaches to my situation--and that is only the most recent input I have to thank you for.
>
> Off the soap box now, on onto terra firma,
>
> respectfully,
>
> fb
>
>Watch out for out for the quacks! If you read between the lines, you can usually tell who is genuinely in the healing business and who is deceptively in the selling business.
Posted by floatingbridge on October 11, 2009, at 20:26:36
In reply to Re: cfs virus identified » floatingbridge, posted by bleauberry on October 11, 2009, at 20:04:14
Thank you so much, Bleauberry, for your thoughtful reply. And for the previous post as well, explaining herx reactions. I have much to learn.
Keep on!
fb
Posted by metafunj on October 11, 2009, at 21:10:11
In reply to Re: cfs virus identified, posted by bleauberry on October 11, 2009, at 19:47:32
Without tests how would you suspect one from being infected and not having some other problem?
Which herbs are you talking about? I'm sure that many of them have been studied and been shown to be anti microbal, anti fungal, anti bacterial etc.
Posted by bleauberry on October 12, 2009, at 19:11:53
In reply to Re: cfs virus identified » bleauberry, posted by metafunj on October 11, 2009, at 21:10:11
> Without tests how would you suspect one from being infected and not having some other problem?
The symptom presentation. Is there fatigue? Pain? Depression? Anxiety? Malaise? The list goes on. Could be one, could be some, could be all. Of the 34 most common symptoms of Lyme I had most of them, while my doctor said some of his patients only had the symptom of depression...no pain, no fatigue, nothing else, just depression. They got better on antibiotics not antidepressants.
If there are symptoms, an infectious organism cannot automatically be ruled out. It does need to be ruled out...or in. The longer the person's symptoms have been a problem, and the longer psychiatric meds seem inadequate, the more likely the symptoms are from something other than "depression".
>
> Which herbs are you talking about? I'm sure that many of them have been studied and been shown to be anti microbal, anti fungal, anti bacterial etc.It depends on which infectious organism is suspected. Some herbs are broad spectrum and cover a bunch of possibilities, while others are more targeted. Usually we just don't know, so it makes sense then to start with a broad spectrum to see if an infectious organism is involved or not. And then if yes, narrow the herbs down to see if it bacterial, fungal, or viral. Or it probably doesn't matter...whatever it is, we by that time are already taking the substance the organism is sensitive to.
Many of these herbs have been tested in test tubes, human bodies, and animal bodies. Very specific species of organisms that are sensitive to them have been identified.
In Lyme it is a bit of deduction. We know that the Lyme bacteria...Borellia...is a spirochete (spiral shaped resembling a parasite). So are Syphilis and Leprosy. The same herbs that treat those diseases also treat Lyme. Not by scientific analysis, but rather by experience.
Babesia is a common co-infection of Lyme, occuring in about 60% of cases. It is a parasite, similar to Malaria, and killed by the same herbs and meds that treat Malaria.
Maybe some numbers would be interesting?
The Herb Coptis. Strong antibiotic, antispirochete. Suppresses the flu virus. In a clinical trial 80% of people taking it did not catch the flu when exposed to it. Antifungal, antiamoeba, antichlamydia. Heals abcesses. In an unrelated studied, there was an 88.2% success rate in treating gall bladder inflammation, showing the wide poorly understood therapeutic value of certain plants.
Combination Sarsaparilla, Coptis, Licorice:
90% cure rate in Syphisis and Leprosy, 50% cure rate in chronic late state. Anti-allergic. Anti-inflammatory. Regenerates damaged tissue. Inhibits histamine release.I could go on and on. The point is, we know from one side of the world what these herbs do from experience, and we are discovering on the other side of the world why they do what they do.
Posted by desolationrower on October 16, 2009, at 5:18:07
In reply to cfs virus identified, posted by floatingbridge on October 9, 2009, at 10:51:30
this is good. 'cfs' is likely a mishmash of conditions, probably including a few infections/immune system problems. but right now with a really bad 'syndrome' classification none of the studies looking at how to treat is can give positive results. many dsm categories have the same problem.
-d/r
Posted by bleauberry on October 16, 2009, at 18:15:53
In reply to Re: cfs virus identified, posted by desolationrower on October 16, 2009, at 5:18:07
> this is good. 'cfs' is likely a mishmash of conditions, probably including a few infections/immune system problems. but right now with a really bad 'syndrome' classification none of the studies looking at how to treat is can give positive results. many dsm categories have the same problem.
>
> -d/rExactly! You are one smart cookie. That one simple statement in your last sentence above eludes so many. What is obvious to you is totally unobvious to so many. I wish you could take off your glasses and let others look through them to see what you see.
This is the end of the thread.
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