![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 19 to 43 of 44. Go back in thread:
Posted by SLS on January 3, 2009, at 5:35:40
In reply to Re: Click here! - Sorry... » shasling, posted by JadeKelly on January 3, 2009, at 2:25:01
It has been demonstrated that MAOIs can be combined with TCA and psychostimulants - all at the same time! Just forage through Dr. Bob's site to find a thread of physician experiences with this combination.
I once took:
Parnate 150mg
desipramine 300mg
d-amphetamine 20mg
bromocriptine ?mg
thyroxine ?mgOf course, I can't play the guitar now.
(I never could).
- Scott
Posted by Vincent_QC on January 3, 2009, at 7:36:59
In reply to Re: Click here! - Sorry..., posted by SLS on January 3, 2009, at 5:35:40
> It has been demonstrated that MAOIs can be combined with TCA and psychostimulants - all at the same time! Just forage through Dr. Bob's site to find a thread of physician experiences with this combination.
>
> I once took:
>
> Parnate 150mg
> desipramine 300mg
> d-amphetamine 20mg
> bromocriptine ?mg
> thyroxine ?mg
>
> Of course, I can't play the guitar now.
>
> (I never could).
>
>
> - Scott
>
>Hi Scott!!!
You are funny ;-) I can't play guitar also...and that s**** since I i'm from a musicians family...my father and brother are very good guitarists...but with my hands shaking forget it! lol
Yeah, I also think a lot of misunderstanding surround the MAOI's world. In fact, it's probably because they are the most old AD drugs, so a lot more studies was made on them, make them less safer in the eyes of a lot of doctors or psychiatrists. I bet in 20 years, they will told the same things about the newer drugs like the SSRI's or the SRNI's...they will told people that they are dangerous, to not blend them with this and that...and things like that...
For what I experience, I don't know if I can add another drug to my MAOI, since I don't reach the good dosage of Parnate to treat my social phobia, but maybe something to give more energy will help eventually.
The Parnate seem to be less stimulating than what most of the doctors think. In fact, the more I increase my dosage, the more I sleep well at night time (more than 4 hours consecutively for me is a miracle...I can return in my bed and sleep another 4 hours...so that's a second miracle...I don't sleep like this since 4 years I think).
It's seem to be more stimulating at low dose. Now I can take my 20mg in the morning, drink 2 coffees and return in my bed without any problem...
Another point, it's seem also to take in general 6-7 days for the body to adjust to the dose increasement. I feel really bad for 5 days when I up my dose to 40mg, I had a lot of orthostatic hypotension episodes, now I have it only sometimes at night, if I sit a long time at the same place. My hypertension problem is a little bit less important. Sometimes I reach 160/80...but that's not scary me anymore. Normally I do around 110-120/60-70, not i'm always around 130/70...but like I write 10 times before (I tend to repeat myself a lot!!! lol), I will fix this issue with my family doctor next week.
Well, another time, thanks for all the good informations you post here!!! You're very nice! Have a good saturday !!! Take care ok ! :-)
Posted by Vincent_QC on January 3, 2009, at 7:56:10
In reply to Re: Click here! - Sorry... » shasling, posted by JadeKelly on January 3, 2009, at 2:25:01
> Hello, you are against use or user? jk
>
> I took ritalin for 12 yrs under the impression that it WAS NOT an amphetamine, but rather a mild CNS stimulant. I had zero w/d when d/c except a little fatigue. From what I've read, even in pharmacy books, etc., is that MAOI's can be used with caution in combo with Ritalin. Amphetamines, such as Adderall, are not to be combined with MAOI within 2 weeks of each other according to same source.
>
> ~Jade
> PS-thanx for concern, I'll look into that further.Strange, I took also Ritalin for a small period of time and I always find it to be a very mild stimulant drug, in fact, I always find the coffee more strong than the Ritalin...
I remember a more old drug call "Ponderal(Redux)", who was retrieve from the market in 1997, it was a pill to help loosing weight and a strong stimulant, a lot similar to Adderall I think...I take it for a long period of time and even if at the time I was already diagnosticed with social phobia and general anxiety and it never increase my problems.
I always think that some people benefit more from stimulant drugs for anxiety and social phobia than drug who will make them more tired like all the SSRI's or SRNI's...
Since Adderall-XR is not cover by insurrance where I live and it's a lot expensive, I never had the chance to try it...maybe one day it will help me to deal with my daytime energy level, since I can't avoid the afternoon need of taking a "nap"... Ok, for now I use a lot of coffee to avoid it, but coffee is coffee...mean that i'm tired to drink it. I like the taste but I dislike the effect of it in my intestine... Maybe also with time, the Parnate will help me also to recover from that daytime lack of energy. Since I don't reach my effective dosage of it and since I also just begin to sleep more well at night, maybe everything will improve with time. I don't sleep a lot of time at night for 4 years at least so maybe also it's why I feel more tired since I increase my dose of Parnate to 40mg...I sleep more at night and I wake up not feeling rested...). I'm sure everything will improve.
I think what you have to check if you take a stimulant with a MAOI's is your blood pressure. Since stimulants tends to increase the blood pressure, you just have to make it safe...go slow on the stimulant dose...and increase slowly if you need it...Since i'm not a doctor (lol), that's the only one advise I can write...
Have a good day Jade ;-)
Posted by JadeKelly on January 3, 2009, at 17:51:47
In reply to Re: Click here! - Sorry... » JadeKelly, posted by Vincent_QC on January 3, 2009, at 7:56:10
> > Hello, you are against use or user? jk
> >
> > I took ritalin for 12 yrs under the impression that it WAS NOT an amphetamine, but rather a mild CNS stimulant. I had zero w/d when d/c except a little fatigue. From what I've read, even in pharmacy books, etc., is that MAOI's can be used with caution in combo with Ritalin. Amphetamines, such as Adderall, are not to be combined with MAOI within 2 weeks of each other according to same source.
> >
> > ~Jade
> > PS-thanx for concern, I'll look into that further.
>
> Strange, I took also Ritalin for a small period of time and I always find it to be a very mild stimulant drug, in fact, I always find the coffee more strong than the Ritalin...
Did you take it after the stronger stim you mention below? If so you'd have a tolerance.
I think dose really makes a difference, too.
>
> I remember a more old drug call "Ponderal(Redux)", who was retrieve from the market in 1997, it was a pill to help loosing weight and a strong stimulant, a lot similar to Adderall I think...I take it for a long period of time and even if at the time I was already diagnosticed with social phobia and general anxiety and it never increase my problems.
>
> I always think that some people benefit more from stimulant drugs for anxiety and social phobia than drug who will make them more tired like all the SSRI's or SRNI's...
>
> Since Adderall-XR is not cover by insurrance where I live and it's a lot expensive, I never had the chance to try it...maybe one day it will help me to deal with my daytime energy level, since I can't avoid the afternoon need of taking a "nap"... Ok, for now I use a lot of coffee to avoid it, but coffee is coffee...mean that i'm tired to drink it. I like the taste but I dislike the effect of it in my intestine... Maybe also with time, the Parnate will help me also to recover from that daytime lack of energy.
It helped me for that 10 day "remission" I had!
Since I don't reach my effective dosage of it and since I also just begin to sleep more well at night, maybe everything will improve with time. I don't sleep a lot of time at night for 4 years at least so maybe also it's why I feel more tired since I increase my dose of Parnate to 40mg...I sleep more at night and I wake up not feeling rested...). I'm sure everything will improve.Vincent, things will improve a lot after 40mg. That's nothing. I believe you'll need to go to at LEAST 60mg, where I am, and stay there a few weeks. Thats what Scott told me. Side effects got better for me the higher I went. I just don't like not knowing what may come next!
>
> I think what you have to check if you take a stimulant with a MAOI's is your blood pressure. Since stimulants tends to increase the blood pressure, you just have to make it safe...go slow on the stimulant dose...and increase slowly if you need it...Since i'm not a doctor (lol), that's the only one advise I can write...I'd take you over my PDoc any day, Vince!!!
>
> Have a good day Jade ;-)
Hey, I set up a thread near the bottom of board for Parnate users. Will You check it out? Thnks.I set a previous thread for "experts" to tell us what they know about our journey and what to expect along the way, and at the end!
Posted by Mickapoo on January 10, 2009, at 14:22:10
In reply to Re: Parnate - Evidence for using high dosages. » Vincent_QC, posted by JadeKelly on December 28, 2008, at 10:33:07
> >
> > > Haven't had a chance to read all documents, but good you found the one referring to the StarD study. I have been in 100% remission for 9 days on 60mg of Parnate. One morn I was no-one, suddenly around noon I felt like myself again. I have my life back. Crazy. I'm sure you can relate to my interest in this cause. If/when I have to increase dose, my PDoc may very well say I'm at the limit. My next step is to find a good (MAOI enlightened) Psychopharmacist as suggested in one of your documents.
> > >
How exactly do you find a Psychopharmacist? What exactly are they? I've been on Nardil prescribed by my family doctor (after some begging on my part), and it's not working so I'd like to try switching to Parnate. Seems like most pDocs or any others want to prescribe MAOI's.Thanks!
Mickapoo
Posted by JadeKelly on January 10, 2009, at 15:34:19
In reply to Re: Parnate - Psychopharmacist » JadeKelly, posted by Mickapoo on January 10, 2009, at 14:22:10
> > >
> > > > Haven't had a chance to read all documents, but good you found the one referring to the StarD study. I have been in 100% remission for 9 days on 60mg of Parnate. One morn I was no-one, suddenly around noon I felt like myself again. I have my life back. Crazy. I'm sure you can relate to my interest in this cause. If/when I have to increase dose, my PDoc may very well say I'm at the limit. My next step is to find a good (MAOI enlightened) Psychopharmacist as suggested in one of your documents.
> > > >
>
>
> How exactly do you find a Psychopharmacist? What exactly are they? I've been on Nardil prescribed by my family doctor (after some begging on my part), and it's not working so I'd like to try switching to Parnate. Seems like most pDocs or any others want to prescribe MAOI's.
>
> Thanks!
> MickapooHi!
I Hope I spelled that right. Not sure if they are called Psychopharmacist, or Psychopharmocolist, at any rate, I haven't seen one yet, but I believe they are PDocs but specialize more on the pharmacy end, meaning they know more about the actual medications themselves. I'm gonna make calls to a large hospital in my area and see if I can find one. I imagine they are not as easy to see as a regular PDoc. I wish I had more info for you than that. The benefit I'm hoping is that they will not be hesitant to prescribe things that my PDoc wont or cant because he doesn't have the knowledge and experience. Hope that helps some. If you find one let me know!
As an aside, I did have what I thought was remission but unfortunately it lasted 10 days and then was gone. So I feel like Parnate can work, I get some relief from it, but I'm gonna stick it out and augment further if I need to. Until I get the result I want.
Good Luck!
~Jade
Posted by SLS on January 10, 2009, at 16:03:01
In reply to Re: Parnate - Psychopharmacist » Mickapoo, posted by JadeKelly on January 10, 2009, at 15:34:19
> As an aside, I did have what I thought was remission but unfortunately it lasted 10 days and then was gone.
Did you ever see the movie "Awakenings"?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Awakenings
How about "Flowers for Algernon"?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flowers_for_algernon
Because of my history of 3 day "remissions", I find these works wrenching.
> So I feel like Parnate can work, I get some relief from it, but I'm gonna stick it out and augment further if I need to. Until I get the result I want.Woohoo!
Kick butt!
You will get the result you want with your positive attitude, constructive behaviors, and vigilance. I hope some of it rubs off on the rest of us. You are a great role model.
Drugs work.
- Scott
Posted by JadeKelly on January 10, 2009, at 21:49:04
In reply to Re: Parnate - Psychopharmacist » JadeKelly, posted by SLS on January 10, 2009, at 16:03:01
> > As an aside, I did have what I thought was remission but unfortunately it lasted 10 days and then was gone.
>
> Did you ever see the movie "Awakenings"?
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Awakenings
>
> How about "Flowers for Algernon"?
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flowers_for_algernon
>
> Because of my history of 3 day "remissions", I find these works wrenching.
>
>
> > So I feel like Parnate can work, I get some relief from it, but I'm gonna stick it out and augment further if I need to. Until I get the result I want.
>
> Woohoo!
>
> Kick butt!
>
> You will get the result you want with your positive attitude, constructive behaviors, and vigilance. I hope some of it rubs off on the rest of us. You are a great role model.
>
> Drugs work.
>
>
> - Scott
Haha, are you spying? Thanks for the encouragement and kind words. It means alot! Its hard to be patient. You sound in a good mood!By the way, your posts did go thru to the woman with the husband on Seroquel. I don't know about you, but my fingers hurt from all the posting the last two days. I think we've got it pretty well under control, you?
I'm hesitant to ask you a question cause I said I wouldn't, but while you're in SUCH a good mood:
If I felt like I was in withdrawal (sweats, tension, feeling like I NEED something but don't know what....that kinda stuff) but haven't changed anything, is that a sign to go up on the Parnate? I've felt this same thing when I've run out of klonopin (which I haven't lately)
If you can answer that great, if not don't worry about it. I know how to scheme too :) I wish
~Jade
>
Posted by SLS on January 11, 2009, at 7:17:28
In reply to Re: SCOTT » SLS, posted by JadeKelly on January 10, 2009, at 21:49:04
> If I felt like I was in withdrawal (sweats, tension, feeling like I NEED something but don't know what....that kinda stuff) but haven't changed anything, is that a sign to go up on the Parnate?
Remember, I asked you if you experienced heart palpitations? It is a personal theory of mind that the "fight or flight" things that you are currently experiencing *could* be signs of an imminent therapeutic response to treatment. It might be a good sign. The question becomes: Is it a matter of time or a matter of dosage? Maybe you will respond very soon to your current dosage of Parnate. However, you might need to increase the dosage to pass through this period of what I call an exaggerated dysautonomia.
How long have you been at 60mg of Parnate?
When did you last increase your dosage of methylphenidate?
When did this stuff start?
Are you dreaming at night?
- Scott
Posted by JadeKelly on January 11, 2009, at 9:31:16
In reply to Re: SCOTT » JadeKelly, posted by SLS on January 11, 2009, at 7:17:28
> > If I felt like I was in withdrawal (sweats, tension, feeling like I NEED something but don't know what....that kinda stuff) but haven't changed anything, is that a sign to go up on the Parnate?
>
> Remember, I asked you if you experienced heart palpitations?Yep! I remember.
It is a personal theory of mind that the "fight or flight" things that you are currently experiencing *could* be signs of an imminent therapeutic response to treatment. It might be a good sign. The question becomes: Is it a matter of time or a matter of dosage? Maybe you will respond very soon to your current dosage of Parnate. However, you might need to increase the dosage to pass through this period of what I call an exaggerated dysautonomia.
Okay
>
> How long have you been at 60mg of Parnate?Almost a month
>
> When did you last increase your dosage of methylphenidate?3 weeks
>
> When did this stuff start?Few nights ago
>
>
Are you dreaming at night?The occasional nightmare (that I can remember)
>
>~Jade-Thanks!
> - Scott
Posted by Vincent_QC on January 11, 2009, at 10:27:04
In reply to Re: SCOTT » JadeKelly, posted by SLS on January 11, 2009, at 7:17:28
> > If I felt like I was in withdrawal (sweats, tension, feeling like I NEED something but don't know what....that kinda stuff) but haven't changed anything, is that a sign to go up on the Parnate?
>
> Remember, I asked you if you experienced heart palpitations? It is a personal theory of mind that the "fight or flight" things that you are currently experiencing *could* be signs of an imminent therapeutic response to treatment. It might be a good sign. The question becomes: Is it a matter of time or a matter of dosage? Maybe you will respond very soon to your current dosage of Parnate. However, you might need to increase the dosage to pass through this period of what I call an exaggerated dysautonomia.
>
> How long have you been at 60mg of Parnate?
>
> When did you last increase your dosage of methylphenidate?
>
> When did this stuff start?
>
> Are you dreaming at night?
>
>
> - Scott
Ho, that's funny Scott, you point the "dream" factor...Since the REM sleep stage is suppose to be "deleted"...When I go back to 30mg, after 1 week at 40mg, I begin to dream again...I stop the Parnate for 3 days and I had TONS of crazy and vivid dreams from these 3 nights...more than usual...and I search on wikipedia some informations about that...and I also conclude that my dosage of Parnate was probably connected to the fact that I start to dream again...so it's probably a sign that my dosage of Parnate was too low at 30mg... I also always get some improve on a drug only when it supress the REM sleep stage... that's weird and complex at the same time...I remember that when I try drugs like Remeron or some SSRI's as well, I had a lot more vivid dreams...and also I never improve on that kind of drugs...so maybe it's related...
Very interresting...You should be a Doctor...especially in the research field !!! lol ;-)
Anyway, another good point for you here...!!!
Thanks again! ;-)
Posted by SLS on January 12, 2009, at 11:18:22
In reply to Re: SCOTT » SLS, posted by JadeKelly on January 11, 2009, at 9:31:16
Sorry to take so long to return to this thread...
Yes. Based upon your current experiences, I think you may need to increase your dosage of Parnate. Most people do not dream once they reach a therapeutic dosage. This is not by any means a hard and fast rule, though. However, taking into consideration your persistent dysautonomia and continued dreaming, I think you need to go up.
Please be aware that this is only conjecture on my part. You can take a MAO inhibition test, but I consider it to be a waste of time since you still must titrate based upon clinical observation.
- Scott
> > > If I felt like I was in withdrawal (sweats, tension, feeling like I NEED something but don't know what....that kinda stuff) but haven't changed anything, is that a sign to go up on the Parnate?
> >
> > Remember, I asked you if you experienced heart palpitations?
>
> Yep! I remember.
>
> It is a personal theory of mind that the "fight or flight" things that you are currently experiencing *could* be signs of an imminent therapeutic response to treatment. It might be a good sign. The question becomes: Is it a matter of time or a matter of dosage? Maybe you will respond very soon to your current dosage of Parnate. However, you might need to increase the dosage to pass through this period of what I call an exaggerated dysautonomia.
>
> Okay
> >
> > How long have you been at 60mg of Parnate?
>
> Almost a month
> >
> > When did you last increase your dosage of methylphenidate?
>
> 3 weeks
>
> >
> > When did this stuff start?
>
> Few nights ago
> >
> >
> Are you dreaming at night?
>
> The occasional nightmare (that I can remember)
> >
> >
>
> ~Jade-Thanks!
>
>
> > - Scott
>
>
Posted by Vincent_QC on January 12, 2009, at 11:59:31
In reply to Re: SCOTT » JadeKelly, posted by SLS on January 12, 2009, at 11:18:22
> Sorry to take so long to return to this thread...
>
> Yes. Based upon your current experiences, I think you may need to increase your dosage of Parnate. Most people do not dream once they reach a therapeutic dosage. This is not by any means a hard and fast rule, though. However, taking into consideration your persistent dysautonomia and continued dreaming, I think you need to go up.
>
> Please be aware that this is only conjecture on my part. You can take a MAO inhibition test, but I consider it to be a waste of time since you still must titrate based upon clinical observation.
>
>
> - Scott
>
Hi Scott... I wonder something...I don't understand exactly what you mean about the dream factor...Do you mean that someone who will dream don't reach the effective dosage of Parnate, or you mean that someone who will begin to dream have reach the good dosage??? I'm a little bit confuse here...I notice that I stop dreaming when I start the Parnate at a dose of 30mg...After 1 week the dream return...I also up my dosage at the same time to 40mg and the dreams stop again...now I had to return to 30mg and I dream all nights...
I stop 3 days the Parnate and just restart it yesterday at 30mg/daily. Last night, I don't dream... Since the Parnate is suppose to supress the REM sleep stage, do you think it's related to my dose? Do you think I should increase my dose if my dreams return, especially if they begin to be more and more vivid??? Do you think it can be also related to the fact that I start to take a small dose of Seroquel 25mg before the bedtime?...
Thanks to answer to all my questions !!!
Have a nice day!
Vincent ;-)
Posted by SLS on January 12, 2009, at 12:02:43
In reply to Re: SCOTT » SLS, posted by Vincent_QC on January 12, 2009, at 11:59:31
Hi.
Usually, one will stop dreaming once they approach a therapeutic dosage.
- Scott
Posted by JadeKelly on January 12, 2009, at 12:12:48
In reply to Re: SCOTT, posted by SLS on January 12, 2009, at 12:02:43
> Hi.
>
> Usually, one will stop dreaming once they approach a therapeutic dosage.
>
>
> - ScottHi.
Thanks. Had one last night actually. I'm going up to 70mg Parnate and I'll figure out the rest.
How ya doin? Hope you're feelin decent and your mood good. We're keeping up the posting and you are not needed at this time :*)
PS-I got slapped TWICE yesterday. Two different occasions. I need to keep my mouth shut, haha.
~Jade
Posted by Vincent_QC on January 13, 2009, at 6:18:42
In reply to Re: SCOTT » SLS, posted by JadeKelly on January 12, 2009, at 12:12:48
> > Hi.
> >
> > Usually, one will stop dreaming once they approach a therapeutic dosage.
> >
> >
> > - Scott
>
> Hi.
>
> Thanks. Had one last night actually. I'm going up to 70mg Parnate and I'll figure out the rest.
>
> How ya doin? Hope you're feelin decent and your mood good. We're keeping up the posting and you are not needed at this time :*)
>
> PS-I got slapped TWICE yesterday. Two different occasions. I need to keep my mouth shut, haha.
>
> ~JadeSlapped??? Why Jade? lol
Thanks Scott for the answer!!! I also think the "dream" approach apply a lot to the therapeuthic effect of the Parnate...as well to others AD's.
My dreams stop at 40mg, When I stop 3 days the Parnate, the dreams return in force...NOw that I restart the Parnate last sunday the dreams don't stop...it's maybe because i'm back to 30mg/day or a mix of the 3 days withdraw and lower dosage...but well...I don't want to up the dose for now...I deal with a return of side-effects since yesterday, probably because I stop 3 days the Parnate...I hope everything will be more well soon...
Thanks again!
Vincent ;-)
Posted by JadeKelly on January 13, 2009, at 12:42:19
In reply to Re: SCOTT » JadeKelly, posted by Vincent_QC on January 13, 2009, at 6:18:42
> > > Hi.
> > >
> > > Usually, one will stop dreaming once they approach a therapeutic dosage.
> > >
> > >
> > > - Scott
> >
> > Hi.
> >
> > Thanks. Had one last night actually. I'm going up to 70mg Parnate and I'll figure out the rest.
> >
> > How ya doin? Hope you're feelin decent and your mood good. We're keeping up the posting and you are not needed at this time :*)
> >
> > PS-I got slapped TWICE yesterday. Two different occasions. I need to keep my mouth shut, haha.
> >
> > ~Jade
>
> Slapped??? Why Jade? lol
>
> Thanks Scott for the answer!!! I also think the "dream" approach apply a lot to the therapeuthic effect of the Parnate...as well to others AD's.
>
> My dreams stop at 40mg, When I stop 3 days the Parnate, the dreams return in force...NOw that I restart the Parnate last sunday the dreams don't stop...it's maybe because i'm back to 30mg/day or a mix of the 3 days withdraw and lower dosage...but well...I don't want to up the dose for now...I deal with a return of side-effects since yesterday, probably because I stop 3 days the Parnate...I hope everything will be more well soon...
>
> Thanks again!
>
> Vincent ;-)Hi Vincent,
It means I got a please be civil and a please be sensitive. They give you those when they feel or the person reports you that you have not respected them in some way. Doesn't take much so if you haven't read the civility guidelines you might want to. When I said slapped I just meant I got scolded. Like getting slapped on the back of the hand.
I'm gonna answer your other post too, I think there is one!
~Jade
Posted by Vincent_QC on January 16, 2009, at 14:06:23
In reply to Re: SCOTT » Vincent_QC, posted by JadeKelly on January 13, 2009, at 12:42:19
> Hi Vincent,
>
> It means I got a please be civil and a please be sensitive. They give you those when they feel or the person reports you that you have not respected them in some way. Doesn't take much so if you haven't read the civility guidelines you might want to. When I said slapped I just meant I got scolded. Like getting slapped on the back of the hand.
>
> I'm gonna answer your other post too, I think there is one!
>
> ~JadeHi Jade ;-)
You mean read all the FAQ...Forget this...i'm not in the mood to read a lot of text like this...the day I will be slapped I will enjoy it! hahaha Ouppss...it was a joke here... Anyway, I don't need to read the "be civil" section since i'm not here to lack respect to someone else or to argue and fight with others members...I'm just here to find some help, help the others with all my informations and my experiences in the "Drugs" treatments options and things like that...IF someone don'T like my kind of "black humour" and my sarcastic side that characterizes me, that's not my problem... ;-)Hope you are ok this week...we don't talk a lot...Did the Parnate kick again? I hope...what happen now, how do you feel?
I had my first true day of individual therapy (CBT) this morning and I was exhausted at the end. My psychologist wanted that we go to the cafeteria of the hospital, just to take some note about my level of anxiety before we go, my thoughts, my anxiety level after the exercice...things like that...
I don't like the fact that I begin this therapy and that I have to deal with the fact that my Parnate experience fail and that i'm not stable under an AD... I have some exercices to do as homework...I have to go to the shopping center each day alone, to expose myself more and more and get used of my anxiety...
I don't know if I will be able to do this...Since I stop the Parnate, I have a regain of anxiety feeling, sometimes I need to take more Valium than the 20mg I usually need, I feel weird...my motivation and concentration level is near the 0 level and my migraines restart the day after I stop the Parnate...So I feel like I lose another month of my time...That's not very easy to deal with all of this at the same time...
I try to explain this to my psychologist this morning...I'm not very happy of the situation because the Parnate had a GOOD effect on my social anxiety and my anxiety in general...but all the side effects with the Parnate was not tolerable for me. I mean, why they canno't invent a good drug with a good effect on the social phobia and anxiety like the effect of the Parnate but without the side-effects...??? It's seem that the more they launched new drugs with fewer side-effects, the less they work...
Anyway, I have so much questions to ask to my Pdoc next week, i'm afraid of his reactions about the fact that I stop the Parnate, i'm afraid about the other options he will give to me...i'm not feeling enough strong to fight and argue with him, so if he decide to put me on something I already try before, I will have no choice really...what I can do? ...since I can't choose myself a Pdoc in the Canada cause the public health system we had don't give us the choice, I can't do anything else...That's suck...
I'm wondering if I will just TRY to ask to something to give me more energy like Adderall-XR or Provigil, just to have more energy at daytime and to be able to do something of my life...regain some energy, some motivation and concentration...find a work...be someone again..."live and not just exist"...like I always say....
For now, all I do is to stay at home at daytime, lying in my bed often...trying to keep all the small amount of energy I have to be able to go out of the home in the evening for the regular coffee with my best friend or things like that...
I feel really tired to be tired...and I can't point out what is the cause of this lack of energy and all the fatigue I have. Is it caused by the "depression", by my anemia or just because i'm used to live like this since more than one year...??? Anyway...so much questions, so much thoughts, no wonder why i'm anxious like this!!! lol
Well that was my complaints for the week...We talk more later if you want ;-)
Take care of you ok !!!
Bye!
Vincent ;-)
Posted by Mickapoo on January 18, 2009, at 14:02:59
In reply to Re: Parnate... » JadeKelly, posted by Vincent_QC on January 16, 2009, at 14:06:23
Vincent,
What side effects did you experience that caused you to stop using Parnate?Mickapoo
Posted by Vincent_QC on January 18, 2009, at 18:43:09
In reply to Re: Quitting Parnate » Vincent_QC, posted by Mickapoo on January 18, 2009, at 14:02:59
> Vincent,
> What side effects did you experience that caused you to stop using Parnate?
>
> MickapooHi Mickapoo!
Hummm hard to explain...I will do my best in English...forgive me if I do a lot of mistakes...my concentration level is very low as well as my cognitives abilities...anyway...After 6 whole days without having a Parnate pill in my system, I can now clearly say that the Parnate was A LOT hard on my physical capacities. I was not in a good physical shape at the begining... but the situation get deteriorated very fast on the Parnate.
I was feeling drained of all the low level of energy I had, like I was doing hours and hours of physical exercices without doing anything at all.
I had insomnia at night and extreme daytime sedation (Strange cause the Parnate are supposed to give some energy.
The worst side-effects was for my heart...especially high blood pressure with a slow pulse rate, I was able to see my heart moving in my chest...sometimes my BP was more high than 200/90...I had to take some Apo-Nifed pills to reduce my BP. Usually it was always around 140-160/80-90-100...so more high than the regular 120/70 I normally have...and all of this without eating food with tyramine...I was really strict on the respect of the diet (exception goes to whey protein shakes but I monitor my blood pressure each time I eat them and the BP was getting lower not higher with the protein shake and I had them only 3 or 4 times in the whole month experience on the Parnate). I had also orthostatic hypotension, but it was not too bad, I mean you can get used of it after a while and it tend to decrease after a couple of days...and it's often worse just after you up the dosage and everything return to the normal after a week...
I guess the Parnate was not a great drug for me, maybe because i'm not in a really good physical shape. I smooke a lot, I don't exercice a lot...on the Parnate it was worst, just take a walk was a "feat"... so I was not able to imagine myself on the Parnate and doing at the same time a diet to loose the weight, doing some exercices and live a normal life with a work, a return to the University to finish my studies and things like that...
The only one good thing that I was able to achieve with the Parhate was the decrease of my Valium intake by 10mg/day...I was at 20mg/day dosage before...4 pills of 5mg each day...During all the Parnate experience, I was able to reduce it to 10mg/day...Since I stop the Parnate, I return to the 20mg/day of Valium, it was a natural process, I don't realise it before 2 days ago. My brains crave for them...I still don't know why, since I don't change anything in my life since I stop the Parnate.
I meet the PDoc again this week, I will see what options he gives to me...I will TRY to suggest something who will make me less tired like an old TCA (desipramine: Norpramin, Pertofrane), it's one of the most specific norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor of it's class...with little to no action on the serotonin, since all the SSRI tend to make me feel worst in general with less energy, a lack of motivation and poor concentration, cognitives impairements...things like that, weight gain...I think it will maybe help. I know that TCA's in general are not great to help for social phobia and aneixty..but well maybe having more energy and motivation will help to improve my life and give me some motivation to do something of my life and regain my self-esteem...I just feel like i'm not usefull for this world now...that's a feeling I hate...
If the PDoc refuse, I don't know what will be my next option...Manerix (Reversible MAOI is out of question...it's not working), Cymbalta...for what I read since a couple of days I think I will never try it, the Luvox (only one SSRI I never try) don't seem to be better than the others SSRI's and just add mood stabilizer alone will not be really helpfull since I don'T have up and down...i'm always tired and out of energy since more than 2 years now...
Maybe a return to the Nardil, who was less harder for me in the side-effects will be a valid option...maybe just a regular stimulant like Dexedrine or the newer Adderall-Xr...Since the Ritalin don't do a lot of things on me in the past...I still don't know...I'm getting a little overstress since a couple of days...I have a lot of things to told to the PDoc and a lot of suggestions to do to him, but at the same time, I know that I will go to the appointment and say nothing of what I have to say because I will feel that i'm not the ONE who decide what is good for me and what is not good...and I will feel inferior to him as usual...
For now, I just continue to drink my usual 6 cups of coffee to find the little amount of energy I need just to survive at daytime (no, coffee don't make me more anxious...I stop several times all my caffeine intake and the anxiety never decrease)... I continue to take my 25mg of regular Seroquel at night to sleep more well. I can sleep more time at night(4-5 hours) but i'm still really tired at daytime...but not tired like I was on the Parnate, it's a more mental fatigue...not physical...
Anyway, blood pressure was the main reason why I quit the Parnate...
Hope it can help...and I hope you will not change your minds about the Parnate because of what I write...I mean, it's just my experience, I had several tries on other drugs when I never experienced side-effects, I had other tries where it was untolerable (like the Parnate), sometimes it was just ok...mean no decrease of my state...but no improve also...but having dangerous side-effects that implies the heart and the blood pressure, I think I can't take the chance to continue to play with my security like this...I just take a natural decision...I'm sure I will find something else to treat me...I don't give up...and I hope you will not give up also!!!
Take care!
Vincent ;-)
Posted by ParnateStarted2008 on February 5, 2009, at 3:59:14
In reply to Re: Quitting Parnate » Mickapoo, posted by Vincent_QC on January 18, 2009, at 18:43:09
Hi Vincent, Im really glad you have some new options your thinking of.. Im sure something is going to work for you soon. Your right, everyone is soo very different in chemical make up. you'll find the right AD to make you feel better soon, Trials suck, but we all go through them and sooner or later you will find the right med and feel better.. its worth it.
Posted by Vincent_QC on February 5, 2009, at 7:20:12
In reply to Re: Quitting Parnate, posted by ParnateStarted2008 on February 5, 2009, at 3:59:14
> Hi Vincent, Im really glad you have some new options your thinking of.. Im sure something is going to work for you soon. Your right, everyone is soo very different in chemical make up. you'll find the right AD to make you feel better soon, Trials suck, but we all go through them and sooner or later you will find the right med and feel better.. its worth it.
Hi ;-)
Well I don't have a lot of options in front of me...I'm now AGAIN on the Nardil...and hard to believe that this time, I feel a lot more side-effects on it than the first time I try it back in 2007... i'm only at 30mg and I feel not very good...more anxious and I have a strange headache in the evening... I guess second try will not be very helpfull...so the only two options I have for me now is to be able to get some Marplan as an importation to the Canada or the Emsam patch...and just if the price is OK...not too much excessive...If my PDoc don't succeed to get some Marplan or the Emsam, I don't know what I will do...for now the Nardil is not very interresting...I never improve a lot on it, even at 75mg...90mg was worst...so well we will see...I think the magic pill don't exist...so I guess I will have a hard time all my life...and the only good thing will to continue to live with my disease and try to cope with it... (social anxiety, general anxiety)...
Anyway...have a good day !
Bye!
Vincent ;-)
Posted by Phillipa on February 5, 2009, at 19:42:03
In reply to Re: Quitting Parnate » ParnateStarted2008, posted by Vincent_QC on February 5, 2009, at 7:20:12
Vincent so sorry it didn't work for you second time round. Sure hope that pdoc can get the EMSAM for you. I betting it would help. Love Phillipa
Posted by Vincent_QC on February 6, 2009, at 10:20:36
In reply to Re: Quitting Parnate » Vincent_QC, posted by Phillipa on February 5, 2009, at 19:42:03
> Vincent so sorry it didn't work for you second time round. Sure hope that pdoc can get the EMSAM for you. I betting it would help. Love Phillipa
Well, for now at only 30mg/day of Nardil it's certainly not helping me a lot...For the headache, they stop a little bit, at least this is ok...more present in the evening and I have always this strange sensation inside my head, the same I have when I Try to stop a benzo drug...like someone who play with my brain and push it with his 2 hands...that's really weird...
On my first try on the Nardil in 2007, I go directly at day one to 45mg and increase fast (2 weeks) to 75mg...and I stay there for more than 2 3/4 month...and it was helping a little bit, at least for my benzo intake, I was used less of them but like I write last week, I also remember now that it didn't help me a lot with social phobia...maybe a little bit for depression, but not for the social phobia, the motivation and the energy level, I always had a cup of coffee in my hand, that's what I remember now.
So for now, I take my 30mg at bedtime because it's more sedative for me...BTW the Seroquel begin to be less effective as a sleep aid, i'm at 50mg of regular seroquel, I will ask for 75mg I think...
For the CBT, I talk a lot with my Psychologist yesterday, not being stable on a AD his not helping me for sure but she have a lot of doubts about the possibilities that I found a good drug to help me, at least in the months to come (not very positive)... so she don't see why it will be necessary to stop the CBT and wait that the good AD kick in...since it can take a lot of time before I find it...so I will have to continue my CBT...but I can't really pratice my exposure time in social events, especially when my daytime consist of drinking coffee, surfing a little bit on the internet and return in my bed cause I feel tired. I have to kick my *ss really harder at the supper time to take a shower, get dress and go out at night with my best friend, it's the only activity I do, with someone it's ok...I mean I don't feel comfortable in social situations, but it's easier to be exposed in a social situation with someone...alone that's another thing...but to be able to do this daily activity, It take all the energy I have, just the shower and get dress make me feel like I just do 4 hours of running...
I have a lot of things in my minds also for now, I have to stop smooking cause I begin to have some respiratory problems, I have to loose more than 50 pounds that I gain on the Lexapro (Cipralex) last fall so another strict diet to come, I have some blood test to do (T3, T4, iron level and others importants things like these), X-ray of my lungs but I have my papers but I can't find the courage to call ( I don't like the phone and talk to strangers), I need to begin to exercise at the gym cause since I move back to my parents house, I don't do anything, before even in my worst moments, I had to go outside and walk more than 1 h a day...it was helping me a lot to stay in shape, now that I don't have to walk I can see the difference, i'm really not in a good shape...
Maybe I put to much pressure on me also, maybe i'm not helping me by always thinking about all of this..but I can't stop, thanks to my general anxiety side...
Anyway for the Emsam patch, I know it's probably the better solution for me, but I can't find them in the Canada, even if it's approved by health Canada, and it's too much expensive for me. The best things to do will maybe to find someone who will want to sell to me some patchs, just to try them (by mail...), if I feel ok after one week, that's mean that I will be able to do the treatment, since I always feel the side-effects of a drug really fast...but who will be able to do this for me??? I don'T know...
I have to think about the possibilities to take oral Selegiline...but for this I have to find the good level (MG) of it to take orally, the good dosage who will make the inhibition of the MAO-B and MAO-A at 100%...but nobody here seem to know the dosage of oral Selegiline I need for this...
Anyway, too much in my minds for now... I continue to think that's it's not ok for a normal person like me to know more than my PDoc about drugs to help me and also all the process about the importation in the Canada... I think the public system in the Canada make the medical care not very good...I just turn around since more than 2 years soon...nothing improve, in fact my state decrease a lot...i'm stuck with PDoc who want to treat me with always the same drugs, they never have new ideas or at least a good combo to offer...they always fear about something, they never want to take any chance...I'm always the one who ask to try things...and that's not normal...
Anyway...sorry for the laments...i'm just tired of everything I think...i'm still not very depress, I mean that I just lack the energy, the motivation and the emotionnal side to make my life more enjoyable for now...I just want everything to be more easier but that's seem to be impossible...well I write too much another time...I always forget that everything here can be google...I hate that...
Have a nice weekend Phillipa!
Take care of you ok!
Bye!
Vincent ;-)
Posted by Phillipa on February 6, 2009, at 21:31:58
In reply to Re: Quitting Parnate » Phillipa, posted by Vincent_QC on February 6, 2009, at 10:20:36
Vincent I also have phone phobia I call it. But do you think you could in small time frames begin to walk again and do continue the CBT. If only the intestinal problem wasn't there. Love Phillipa
Go forward in thread:
Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.