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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 16 of 16. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Guy on May 21, 2007, at 13:36:36
First of all, let me say that I am not currently suicidal and have no plans to end my life in the immediate future. Nevertheless, I have recently noticed that I am gaining an acceptance of the fact that the unrelenting anxiety and panic I have experienced over the past eleven years may eventually take my life. In other words, my fear of death seems to be subsiding as I become more resigned to my fate. After all, I would just be returning to where I came from, and what's so scary about that? My poor aunt, who suffered terribly from some horrible upset of her brain chemistry didn't hesitate in bringing it all to an end. I saw her shortly before her death and now understand perfectly why she made the choice she did. No suffering in the world can be more unbearable than the type of electrical storm that was going on in her central nervous system. I'm just wondering if others sometimes reach a point of pure exhaustion and defeat where they no longer care if they ever wake up again...where the will to live is all but extinguished. Again, please do not see this as a last, desperate call for help. I'm just wondering, on a spiritual level, if others feel this way and how they deal with it.
Posted by linkadge on May 21, 2007, at 15:59:25
In reply to Returning to the Universe, posted by Guy on May 21, 2007, at 13:36:36
Hey, I know where you're coming from.
I am not suicidal now (my disclaimer), bur I don't think I'll be around another 10 years.
Theres no peace. Its the feeling of being so out of control of ones own life.
Anyhow, I feel its ones own choice.
I feel like telling doctors, "don't prevent me from dying if you can't make life worth living"
Not that I expect any doctor to be responsable for making anyones like worth living.
Linkadge
Posted by Meri-Tuuli on May 21, 2007, at 16:46:19
In reply to Re: Returning to the Universe, posted by linkadge on May 21, 2007, at 15:59:25
Hmmm, yes!
I know what you're both saying.
I've put it down to the fact that by promising ourselves that we'll kill ourselves over the fact that we feel (and indeed probably don't) control our lives to any degree gives us back control. We *have* the control to end it all, if we so wish, and so we get a feeling of control back again, if only temporarily and probably not the most healthy coping strategy either. But its all we have and we're doing our best now aren't we?
Well thats my rationale.
Meri
Posted by Klavot on May 21, 2007, at 17:15:33
In reply to Re: Returning to the Universe » linkadge, posted by Meri-Tuuli on May 21, 2007, at 16:46:19
My coping strategy is to "just not go there", i.e. make a conscious effort not to think about suicide. When suicidal thoughts arise spontaneously, I say "NO" and try very hard to think about something else. In my case, it works very well. Maxwell Maltz says that suicidal thoughts constitute negative goal images, and one should try and replace these thoughts with positive goal images.
Klavot
Posted by zmg on May 21, 2007, at 17:15:37
In reply to Returning to the Universe, posted by Guy on May 21, 2007, at 13:36:36
Not dying (I overdosed on sleeping pills at 19) was easily the best thing that's ever happened to me.
It didn't make life easier, but it made the alternative really clear. I make all sorts of mistakes but that would have been one permanent mistake.
Anyway, sorry if I sound preachy. My life isn't an example or anything. I just thought I'd share.
Posted by Sigismund on May 21, 2007, at 20:53:15
In reply to Returning to the Universe, posted by Guy on May 21, 2007, at 13:36:36
The good news is we're dying slowly.
The bad news is it will take some time.
How do you balance the gift of this wonderful life with the misfortune of having to live it?
Posted by Phillipa on May 21, 2007, at 22:26:40
In reply to Re: Returning to the Universe, posted by Sigismund on May 21, 2007, at 20:53:15
I sleep okay a great escape and okay for around 2-3 hours in the day then have to go out. Stay busy make sure I excercise and then come read here and usually someone says something that clicks in my head so far it's working for me not saying it will forwever. Love Phillipa
Posted by stargazer2 on May 21, 2007, at 23:31:03
In reply to Re: Returning to the Universe » Sigismund, posted by Phillipa on May 21, 2007, at 22:26:40
That thought comes up from time to time because depression causes thoughts of "why bother" or "what's the meaning of life", all those existential issues that most people don't think about at all. A depressed mind really goes into an area of thought(or non-thought), that the average non-depressed mind doesn't have. It is almost like the depressed mind has a whole other region of thought processing that doesn't exist in so called "normal" brains. It is a very dangerous place that if you are in for a long time will inevitably lead you, as you have suggested, to thinking ending it would make sense rather than carrying on in limbo wihout any improvement in your situation. I have been there many times but luckily a med has tweaked something just enough to take me out of that mindset, but more often than not, not enough to extricate me from a bad depression. It's unfortunate so many meds are so ineffective with restoring normal brain functioning, that the return to this dark place is episodic, not isolated.
Seroquel has helped pull me out of a really dark place once and i would recommend it to others as a way to return and try some more, if you have the strength to continue the "universal" fight.
SG2
Posted by Johann on May 22, 2007, at 2:37:58
In reply to Returning to the Universe, posted by Guy on May 21, 2007, at 13:36:36
A few years ago I hospitalized myself because intense anxiety and depression left me thinking about suicide almost every minute. I was having a mixed episode and wasn't taking the right medications. (As an aside, being in the hospital was one of the most untherapeutic, negative experiences I've ever had. If there is ever a next time, I am going to the Ritz and seeing my psychiatrist daily. It would less expensive and more helpful--seriously.)
However, still dealing with PTSD and painful anxiety leaves me wishing it could just all be over. I think of myself sometimes as a battery that is running down.
I really do love life, and maybe this makes it all the harder. Who knows. I keep hoping things will turn around significantly (and they did some when lithium took a chunk out of my depression). But I'm glad I have a stockpile of meds should I feel the need. (There's no way I could have a gun around; the impulsive potential of it would overwhelm my defenses.) However, I don't want my mother to have to live through her son's death, of possible.
I once had a dream of old folks being absorbed into gelatinous cave walls. At first I thought it was a negative image, but now I think of it as being absorbed back into the earth, or Universe. It helps me with the thought of death, whatever the cause.
Johann
> First of all, let me say that I am not currently suicidal and have no plans to end my life in the immediate future. Nevertheless, I have recently noticed that I am gaining an acceptance of the fact that the unrelenting anxiety and panic I have experienced over the past eleven years may eventually take my life. In other words, my fear of death seems to be subsiding as I become more resigned to my fate. After all, I would just be returning to where I came from, and what's so scary about that? My poor aunt, who suffered terribly from some horrible upset of her brain chemistry didn't hesitate in bringing it all to an end. I saw her shortly before her death and now understand perfectly why she made the choice she did. No suffering in the world can be more unbearable than the type of electrical storm that was going on in her central nervous system. I'm just wondering if others sometimes reach a point of pure exhaustion and defeat where they no longer care if they ever wake up again...where the will to live is all but extinguished. Again, please do not see this as a last, desperate call for help. I'm just wondering, on a spiritual level, if others feel this way and how they deal with it.
Posted by Squiggles on May 22, 2007, at 8:22:23
In reply to Returning to the Universe, posted by Guy on May 21, 2007, at 13:36:36
Could you tell us more about the "electrical
storm in the CNS"? That sounds like withdrawal,
maybe? I had something like a firestorm after
a stroke/seizure and it was from withdrawal. It
was indescribably awful and required reinstatement.Squiggles
Posted by Squiggles on May 22, 2007, at 8:30:01
In reply to Re: Returning to the Universe, posted by stargazer2 on May 21, 2007, at 23:31:03
Good post. That's exactly what happens--
it's like putting on dark glasses on a sunny day.Yes, we need better drugs for most psychiatric
disorders.Squiggles
Posted by Phillipa on May 22, 2007, at 19:27:51
In reply to Re: Returning to the Universe, posted by Johann on May 22, 2007, at 2:37:58
Interesting as my husband collects guns and we sleep with one in the bed under the mattress for trespasses should we ever need one but I'd never shoot myself or anyone else for that matter even in self denfense. That is just me. Love Phillipa
Posted by Phillipa on May 22, 2007, at 19:29:39
In reply to Re: Returning to the Universe, posted by Squiggles on May 22, 2007, at 8:30:01
Excercise for the endorphins really works. Love Phillipa
Posted by JerryPharmStudent on May 23, 2007, at 2:02:37
In reply to Returning to the Universe, posted by Guy on May 21, 2007, at 13:36:36
> First of all, let me say that I am not currently suicidal and have no plans to end my life in the immediate future. Nevertheless, I have recently noticed that I am gaining an acceptance of the fact that the unrelenting anxiety and panic I have experienced over the past eleven years may eventually take my life. In other words, my fear of death seems to be subsiding as I become more resigned to my fate. After all, I would just be returning to where I came from, and what's so scary about that? My poor aunt, who suffered terribly from some horrible upset of her brain chemistry didn't hesitate in bringing it all to an end. I saw her shortly before her death and now understand perfectly why she made the choice she did. No suffering in the world can be more unbearable than the type of electrical storm that was going on in her central nervous system. I'm just wondering if others sometimes reach a point of pure exhaustion and defeat where they no longer care if they ever wake up again...where the will to live is all but extinguished. Again, please do not see this as a last, desperate call for help. I'm just wondering, on a spiritual level, if others feel this way and how they deal with it.
I know the exact feeling. I struggle with it daily - hourly. How can I keep hope alive when nothing has gotten better after 15 years? All my dreams - impossible now. Life has passed me by.
Posted by stargazer2 on May 23, 2007, at 5:47:35
In reply to Re: Returning to the Universe, posted by JerryPharmStudent on May 23, 2007, at 2:02:37
Jerry, my time with depression has been 30 years +, 20 with meds, so I have you beat so to speak but it is a struggle of often insurmontable proportions that those who haven't had "real" clinical deprssion have no idea what we go through and will never know either.
All you can do is decide life holds some meaning or purpose and that you find some some hope that there might be some answer left for you. I think with all the options there are, despite "wasting" alot of time looking, it keeps us busy, where in the past, after a few options, that was it.
Have you tried all the MAO's??? They can really help for some. I just started Nardil and noticed a difference in the first week. After it pooped out in 1999 I tried, like you, just about everything else...nothing worked except some brief glimpses and marginal responses which allowed me to functioning in a half alive state. Many time over the past 30 years that is how I got by and I fooled many people into thinking life was good, or it looked good from the outside looking in...it wasn't good, but I went through the motions, still hoping for an answer. I had several real close calls but must have believed in something, what I'm not sure, but I did start to find the answers for myself.
Researching for yourslf will perhaps help you find something that can work for you. Some of the nutritional products or vitamins might help. I tried DLPA with some success so that was a start.
Good luck Jerry, there might be more hope than you realize at any given moment.
SG2
Posted by deniseuk190466 on May 28, 2007, at 12:46:39
In reply to Returning to the Universe, posted by Guy on May 21, 2007, at 13:36:36
Guy,
I often go to bed feeling utterly defeated and long just to go to sleep and not wake up but it doesn't happen does it? I sometimes wish that my heart would just stop beating, I sometimes wonder why it insists on carry on beating when I don't personally want to carry on. I wish fate would intervene and I would just die instantly without having to do it myself. The worst part is that when I am feeling really bad I feel to feeble and lack of resolve to actually take action and end it. I think about suicide a lot and I get more frustrated and anxious because I know I couldn't actually muster up the strength, resolve, decisiveness to do the actual deed. I can understand why people kill themselves but I just don't understand how, do they get to a state where they simply don't know what they are doing, do they go into a trance?
When I was well I used to be sooooooo very scared of dying, I'd worry about the silliest things and I was so cautious about what I ate, wouldn't eat beef incase I got mad cows disease. Now I couldn't care less, what will be will be. I even feel sort of invincible when it comes to dying, this time round. It's like because part of me once it, it's not likely to happen.
Denise
This is the end of the thread.
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