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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by Phillipa on March 12, 2007, at 11:26:08
In reply to Re: imsomnia-so bad what helps? » kelv, posted by polarbear206 on March 12, 2007, at 11:04:38
Sleeping more and more and tried giving up lunesta last night and I'm just getting up after bad dreams had to take extra valium. Going off all ad's for a baseline and regulating thryroid could this be causing this strange ability to sleep but dream and then over sleep. I can't figure it out. Love Phillipa ps Iknow this was meant for the other poster. Sorry about that.
Posted by kelv on March 12, 2007, at 11:39:43
In reply to Re: imsomnia-so bad what helps? » polarbear206, posted by Phillipa on March 12, 2007, at 11:26:08
> Sleeping more and more and tried giving up lunesta last night and I'm just getting up after bad dreams had to take extra valium. Going off all ad's for a baseline and regulating thryroid could this be causing this strange ability to sleep but dream and then over sleep. I can't figure it out. Love Phillipa ps Iknow this was meant for the other poster. Sorry about that.
Does Valium still work after 30 years?Is Lunestra Eszopliclone?
Posted by TheMeanReds on March 12, 2007, at 12:04:50
In reply to imsomnia-so bad what helps?, posted by kelv on March 12, 2007, at 6:44:01
I dont know all of the meds you already take, but remeron seems to make almost everyone sleep. I believe its called an atypical antidepressant? Maybe it would work for atypical insomnia?
> What helps your many treatment resistant insomnia?
>
> Benzo tolerant-don't work.
> Zopliclone-no more
Posted by mattye on March 12, 2007, at 12:13:53
In reply to imsomnia-so bad what helps?, posted by kelv on March 12, 2007, at 6:44:01
Remeron will knock you on your *ss. This works even when benzos poop out. I think the only reason they don't prescribe it much is because of the munchies. It will make you eat an entire box of frosted flakes before you pass out.
> What helps your many treatment resistant insomnia?
>
> Benzo tolerant-don't work.
> Zopliclone-no more
Posted by polarbear206 on March 12, 2007, at 12:23:29
In reply to Re: imsomnia-so bad what helps? » polarbear206, posted by Phillipa on March 12, 2007, at 11:26:08
> Sleeping more and more and tried giving up lunesta last night and I'm just getting up after bad dreams had to take extra valium. Going off all ad's for a baseline and regulating thryroid could this be causing this strange ability to sleep but dream and then over sleep. I can't figure it out. Love Phillipa ps Iknow this was meant for the other poster. Sorry about that.
Oh yes, this will happen big time!! You just have to wave through it. Are you weaning slowly? Use the valuim as you go through this adjustment. Try to keep routine sleep/wake cycle. Make yourself get oob and get some more exercise. This will really help you. Good luck.
Posted by yxibow on March 12, 2007, at 12:30:32
In reply to Re: imsomnia- REMERON, posted by mattye on March 12, 2007, at 12:13:53
> Remeron will knock you on your *ss. This works even when benzos poop out. I think the only reason they don't prescribe it much is because of the munchies. It will make you eat an entire box of frosted flakes before you pass out.
>
> > What helps your many treatment resistant insomnia?
> >
> > Benzo tolerant-don't work.
> > Zopliclone-no more
Yeah, I don't generally recommend side effect use, but Remeron is one that can give some rather trippy dreams even at a low dose. Just lower your food intake as it can cause weight gain.
Lunesta is one half of the racemic mixture that is zopiclone (I think ?... metabolite). Its a generic drug that was patented in the US. Yup. I've taken it, if you're a real bad insomniac like myself, you probably need 4mg.
Dalmane will knock you clear out, but it is a benzodiazepine that can build tolerance, plus it has a long half life.
I would not recommend Trazodone to a male, the risk of priapism is higher than stated, which for a younger male is probably not an issue (I stood on my head -- yup) but I dunno... Also a side effect medication.
There's Rozerem, which is stronger than any melatonin you'll buy OTC.
And I guess some doctors use Seroquel at 12.5 or 25mg... not generally thrilled with the use of neuroleptics of label unless necessary but at that dose all you're getting is H1 so its not really much of an issue.
Another one for side effect use is doxepin (TCA), heavy on the H1 and H2, don't try this unless you have a weekend to adjust, at least from my tests. Its pretty sleep inducing at first.
Posted by Phillipa on March 12, 2007, at 12:56:18
In reply to Re: imsomnia-so bad what helps? » Phillipa, posted by polarbear206 on March 12, 2007, at 12:23:29
Thanks polarbear I'm trying a two week withdrawal from about 6 years of 50mg of luvox. Love Phillipa
Posted by Sandra62 on March 12, 2007, at 14:03:15
In reply to Re: imsomnia-so bad what helps? » polarbear206, posted by Phillipa on March 12, 2007, at 12:56:18
Not that you necessarily want to look at an atypical antipsychotic but Seroquel knocked me out. Big time!
Posted by madeline on March 12, 2007, at 15:36:09
In reply to imsomnia-so bad what helps?, posted by kelv on March 12, 2007, at 6:44:01
Trazadone is a sleep bomb for me and has been for 6+ years. I take one, 20 minutes later I am sleeping like a log.
And make sure you are doing all the other things that can help you sleep
keep your bedroom cool and dark
get some white noise going - I keep a fan going in my room
Get a comfortable bed. You spend a lot of your life in bed.
No caffeine and no exercise before bed.
Develop routines etc...
I'm sure you know all this.Maddie
Posted by lymom3 on March 12, 2007, at 15:42:12
In reply to Re: imsomnia-so bad what helps? » kelv, posted by madeline on March 12, 2007, at 15:36:09
Seroquel is it for me. Trazodone didn't work nor did Ambien, Restoril or Rozerem. I just take 50mg; not a very big dose at all but finally I can sleep through the night again. I totally agree with the previous post about good sleep hygiene..that is important too.
Posted by randermin on March 12, 2007, at 22:44:31
In reply to Re: imsomnia-so bad what helps?, posted by TheMeanReds on March 12, 2007, at 12:04:50
do you have a hard time getting to sleep, or staying alseep or both? when do you go to bed/wake up, what drugs are you on? how long do you stay up at night? -o
Posted by rina on March 12, 2007, at 22:44:34
In reply to imsomnia-so bad what helps?, posted by kelv on March 12, 2007, at 6:44:01
> What helps your many treatment resistant insomnia?
>
> Benzo tolerant-don't work.
> Zopliclone-no moreI've tried everything prescribed....good old benedryl works like a charm everytime.
Posted by kelv on March 12, 2007, at 23:45:09
In reply to Re: imsomnia-so bad what helps? » kelv, posted by madeline on March 12, 2007, at 15:36:09
> Trazadone is a sleep bomb for me and has been for 6+ years. I take one, 20 minutes later I am sleeping like a log.
>
> And make sure you are doing all the other things that can help you sleep
> keep your bedroom cool and dark
> get some white noise going - I keep a fan going in my room
> Get a comfortable bed. You spend a lot of your life in bed.
> No caffeine and no exercise before bed.
> Develop routines etc...
> I'm sure you know all this.
>
> MaddieGood lord, you here are all so DAMN concerned and suggistive of remedies!! THANKS xxx
Trazadone isn't available in my country.
When i have experiemented with ADHD meds-Dex, and took too much and had a manic/panic attack coming on (the worst), i simply took a couple mgs Xanax+2mgs risperdal+ a few shots of Vodka-i needed to be knocked out-SIMPLE.
Scripted:
-Dexamphetamine (recently) gauging my way~20mgs
-Xanax 3mgs-does not reduce anxiety, but benzo (a varity) dependant-4 years
-Risperdal-which i look at as an acute manic/panic stopper if i need serious action soon.Was scripted Zopliclone in hospital, and after coming out for a few months-quit working, i wish i had a hyperdermic with Seconal, Nembutal to use when i must sleep-like an off button.
Thanks
Posted by yxibow on March 13, 2007, at 3:04:23
In reply to Re: imsomnia-so bad what helps? » madeline, posted by kelv on March 12, 2007, at 23:45:09
> > Trazadone is a sleep bomb for me and has been for 6+ years. I take one, 20 minutes later I am sleeping like a log.
> >
> > And make sure you are doing all the other things that can help you sleep
> > keep your bedroom cool and dark
> > get some white noise going - I keep a fan going in my room
> > Get a comfortable bed. You spend a lot of your life in bed.
> > No caffeine and no exercise before bed.
> > Develop routines etc...
> > I'm sure you know all this.
> >
> > Maddie
>
> Good lord, you here are all so DAMN concerned and suggistive of remedies!! THANKS xxx
>
> Trazadone isn't available in my country.
>
> When i have experiemented with ADHD meds-Dex, and took too much and had a manic/panic attack coming on (the worst), i simply took a couple mgs Xanax+2mgs risperdal+ a few shots of Vodka-i needed to be knocked out-SIMPLE.
>
> Scripted:
> -Dexamphetamine (recently) gauging my way~20mgs
> -Xanax 3mgs-does not reduce anxiety, but benzo (a varity) dependant-4 years
> -Risperdal-which i look at as an acute manic/panic stopper if i need serious action soon.
>
> Was scripted Zopliclone in hospital, and after coming out for a few months-quit working, i wish i had a hyperdermic with Seconal, Nembutal to use when i must sleep-like an off button.
If you're in need of a neuroleptic, not to be offensive, but Trazodone isn't always the best cure. It has a metabolite called mCPP which can increase psychosis. I don't know. I'm glad I'm away from it personally, but then I'm male and the low blood pressure and priapisms had it for me.
The zopiclone may have quit working because of cross-pollination with Xanax, which is a pretty potent benzodiazepine. Pseudobenzodiazepines can lose their effectiveness earlier with concomitant use of other benzodiazepines.
I have used Lunesta at 4mg, which I'm not sure but would be some overprescription relation of zopiclone, it is not as strong as Ambien, which even 20-25mg doesn't do it as much as it used to. But then again I have Valium on board, so it is the same issue.
Benadryl is allright to use for a short time, but it can increase daytime depression, at least from what I've noticed.I haven't taken doxylamine succinate, which is what Unisom is now. I believe the sleep preparations used to use benadryl.
-- tidings
Posted by kelv on March 13, 2007, at 6:01:28
In reply to Re: imsomnia-so bad what helps? » kelv, posted by yxibow on March 13, 2007, at 3:04:23
> If you're in need of a neuroleptic, not to be offensive, but Trazodone isn't always the best cure. It has a metabolite called mCPP which can increase psychosis. I don't know. I'm glad I'm away from it personally, but then I'm male and the low blood pressure and priapisms had it for me.
Trazodone isn't available here.
>
> "The zopiclone may have quit working because of cross-pollination with Xanax, which is a pretty potent benzodiazepine. Pseudobenzodiazepines can lose their effectiveness earlier with concomitant use of other benzodiazepines".Really?-maybe thats why it pooped out?, when i was discharged from hospital my Psy gave me:
-3mgs Xanax
-6mgs Clonazepam
-5mgs Valium
-2, 7.5 Zopliclones
-2mgs Risperdal
-propranol as neededMost of which i'v quit.-perhaps thats why some folk continue to receive benefits from Zop for year/s?
> "I have used Lunesta at 4mg, which I'm not sure but would be some overprescription relation of zopiclone, it is not as strong as Ambien, which even 20-25mg doesn't do it as much as it used to. But then again I have Valium on board, so it is the same issue."
Ambien isn't available here
> "Benadryl is allright to use for a short time, but it can increase daytime depression, at least from what I've noticed."
Have taken it, made me feel weird.
>
> "I haven't taken doxylamine succinate, which is what Unisom is now. I believe the sleep preparations used to use benadryl."Have taken Doxyl-similar to Benedryl.
Now it's Xanax 1-3mgs + a few shots Vodka-it works.
Posted by madeline on March 13, 2007, at 6:11:19
In reply to Re: imsomnia-so bad what helps? » kelv, posted by yxibow on March 13, 2007, at 3:04:23
I've never had much trouble with trazodone as a sleep aid and I've been on it for 6+ years. No psychosis. But, I am female. I keep forgetting the side effects for males. Sorry.
The only thing I have noticed is that the amount of trazodone required for me to sleep varies and seems to come in cycles. Sometimes for months I only need 50 mg, then, apparently for no reason, I have to jump up to 100 mg for several months, then I can come back down to 50.
I have to do that with Prozac as well, right now I'm on 20 mgs every other day, but I've been up to 40 mgs a day.
Serotonin is just strange I guess.
However, according to my psychiatrist, people used to take 300-400 mg of it as an anti-depressant which just astounds me. I would be just be asleep.
Posted by kelv on March 13, 2007, at 6:24:48
In reply to Re: imsomnia-so bad what helps? » yxibow, posted by madeline on March 13, 2007, at 6:11:19
When i had a script of Tuinal a combo of (100mgs seconal+100mgs Amytal, known as 'rainbows' red+blue coloured, was the best sleep remedy. i could be insomniac from daily stresses, too much Ritalin, Dexedrine, etc and a couple of thoes would be the bomb-knock me right out.
Posted by UGottaHaveHope on March 13, 2007, at 9:43:07
In reply to Re: Tuinal helped the most » madeline, posted by kelv on March 13, 2007, at 6:24:48
If you are not taking any other medicines, it is hard for me to believe that Seroquel won't make you sleep and sleep very well immediately. It may not work as well when combined with other drugs, but it usually does. The greatest thing is unlike many other meds you will know the first 1-2 days whether or not Seroquel will work. Ask you pdoc for 25 or 100mg sample pack and take just before bedtime.
WAIT. There are tradeoffs. Seroquel can make you feel very groggy the next morning (which actually helps my anxiety), so you have to decide which is more important - sleep or dealing with grogginess. To me, if I dont get my sleep, it sorta gets the day off to a tough start. Michael
Posted by Ken Blades on March 13, 2007, at 9:44:46
In reply to imsomnia-so bad what helps?, posted by kelv on March 12, 2007, at 6:44:01
>>>>posted by madeline on March 13, 2007, at 6:11:19
When i had a script of Tuinal a combo of (100mgs seconal+100mgs Amytal, known as 'rainbows' red+blue coloured, was the best sleep remedy. i could be insomniac from daily stresses, too much Ritalin, Dexedrine, etc and a couple of thoes would be the bomb-knock me right out.<<<<<
Be careful with barbiturates...don't take them
every night, night after night.Many years ago, I took Tuinal 200mg., 1 h.s.
Over a period of less than two years, I
was taking 800 mg. a night, getting prescriptions from multiple doctors to boost my supply. It
was no fun getting off it...took a long time
and help from chloral hydrate + diphenhydramine,
alternating with Valium.Barbs are very effective...but they are
viciously habituating because of that.If you are an addictive personality, stay away.
Ken
Posted by yxibow on March 13, 2007, at 12:59:29
In reply to Re: imsomnia-so bad what helps? » yxibow, posted by madeline on March 13, 2007, at 6:11:19
> I've never had much trouble with trazodone as a sleep aid and I've been on it for 6+ years. No psychosis. But, I am female. I keep forgetting the side effects for males. Sorry.
>
> The only thing I have noticed is that the amount of trazodone required for me to sleep varies and seems to come in cycles. Sometimes for months I only need 50 mg, then, apparently for no reason, I have to jump up to 100 mg for several months, then I can come back down to 50.
>
> I have to do that with Prozac as well, right now I'm on 20 mgs every other day, but I've been up to 40 mgs a day.
>
> Serotonin is just strange I guess.
>
> However, according to my psychiatrist, people used to take 300-400 mg of it as an anti-depressant which just astounds me. I would be just be asleep.
Trazodone.. oh.. yeah.. it dates from the early 70s, I think if anything the antidepressant effect came from the fact that the average adult dose would put one to sleep daily.
But I did once have an idiosyncratic reaction to Trazodone as well, perhaps a mixture of medications, but my pulse shot up beyond 150 I think and I called 911; fortunately it subsided and nothing was needed. Having propranolol would have helped.
Posted by CA 2 NJ on March 13, 2007, at 15:05:26
In reply to imsomnia-so bad what helps?, posted by kelv on March 12, 2007, at 6:44:01
Hello. I currently take 3mg of Lunesta, 12.5mg of Seroquel and .75mg of Xanax at bedtime.
I also take Xanax throughout the day so that's not only for sleep. Also My Psychiatrist did prescribe me 25mg of Seroquel for sleep, but I sleep way too long if I take that much, so I just cut it in half.
I sleep soundly and wake up feeling pretty well rested. But I always take it at least 8 hours before it's time to get up otherwise I'd be draggin' anchor!
Hope this helped! And made sense! LOL :)
Take care and God Bless!
Michelle
Posted by Phillipa on March 13, 2007, at 18:18:36
In reply to Re: imsomnia-so bad what helps?, posted by CA 2 NJ on March 13, 2007, at 15:05:26
I remember when on chloral hydrate 5cc's with xanax is the only med that allowed me to sleep all night without waking. But after about year I had to raise the dose. And got off it at 20cc about 5 years later. Is it a difficult med to wean off of as I did have other benzos on board? Love Phillipa
Posted by Declan on March 13, 2007, at 19:11:02
In reply to imsomnia-so bad what helps?, posted by kelv on March 12, 2007, at 6:44:01
Do we have any good sleep aids?
Barbiturates I don't need to comment on.
Benzos damage sleep architecture.
Remeron and Periactin are too brutal and last till lunch the next day.
Melatonin is no help.
Dothep is awful.
Ditto antihistamines.
How long the next day does Seroquel last? And,
Is it unpleasant? Like antihistamines, I guess?
Posted by yxibow on March 14, 2007, at 3:15:18
In reply to Re: imsomnia-so bad what helps?, posted by Declan on March 13, 2007, at 19:11:02
> Do we have any good sleep aids?
>
> Barbiturates I don't need to comment on.Agreed.
> Benzos damage sleep architecture.
A lot of sleep agents do, but at the end of the day, are you sleeping or not?
> Remeron and Periactin are too brutal and last till lunch the next day.If taken earlier in the evening and a very low dose, it might be better -- it is REM enhancing.
> Melatonin is no help
Have you ever tried Rozerem -- it is quite more powerful than Melatonin, at least I know for one person -- unfortunately I am such an insomniac that a lot of things don't work well.
>
> Dothep is awful.
>
> Ditto antihistamines.
>
>
>
> How long the next day does Seroquel last? And,
> Is it unpleasant? Like antihistamines, I guess?Well I take 600 now down from 750 and 800.
Its.. mm... well not as bad as Trazodone, which I would never recommend to a male or someone with any psychiatric problems actually, both because of priapisms, and its metabolite mCPP which can cause idiosyncratic and psychotic conditions.
At 12.5 or 25mg, Seroquel is not giving any D2 really, so basically you're just getting a fair dose of H1. Take it earlier than you think you're going to sleep and be in bed. Then it will not be as groggy the next day. I suppose you can become habituated in a sense like Trazodone, but I think it takes longer. A slice of Zyprexa would probably be similar but from what I recall the tablets are so hard to cut that you'd have to smash a 2.5mg tablet. I don't know if it is used regularly for sleep because of that.
-- tidings
Posted by kelv on March 14, 2007, at 18:52:50
In reply to Re: imsomnia-so bad what helps? » kelv, posted by Ken Blades on March 13, 2007, at 9:44:46
> Be careful with barbiturates...don't take them
> every night, night after night.
>
> Many years ago, I took Tuinal 200mg., 1 h.s.
> Over a period of less than two years, I
> was taking 800 mg. a night, getting prescriptions from multiple doctors to boost my supply. It
> was no fun getting off it...took a long time
> and help from chloral hydrate + diphenhydramine,
> alternating with Valium.
>
> Barbs are very effective...but they are
> viciously habituating because of that.
>
> If you are an addictive personality, stay away.
>
> Ken
>
>You took 800mgs?=4 tuinal caps? or 8=800mgs Secobarbital?
Yer dude 2 years use is bad news for Barbs!
They are VERY usefull for short term use, when you MUST sleep.
But combined with alcohol are bad news, Judy Garland died after taking Secobarbital+alcohol.
Nembutal (Pentorbital)) was the king-put anyones lights out. Killed Marilyn.
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