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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 20 of 20. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by TylerJ on March 5, 2006, at 14:17:03
CAFFIENE
Most of us use caffiene so often that we don't even think of it as a drug. Caffiene can provide an immediate lift that increases energy and stamina, Caffiene can also increase sex drive.
However, too much caffiene can cause heart palpitations and fatigue.-Is caffiene safe and effective when combined with antidepressants? I read that many people believe caffiene combined with maoi's make the drugs work better and reduce the chance of poop-out.
-Please let me know your personal experiences with caffiene and any information you can add about positive or negative effects of caffiene. Most pdocs say no caffiene or very little especially if you suffer from anxiety.
Thanks, Tyler
Posted by zeugma on March 5, 2006, at 15:06:02
In reply to CAFFIENE...Good or Bad?, posted by TylerJ on March 5, 2006, at 14:17:03
> CAFFIENE
>
>
> Most of us use caffiene so often that we don't even think of it as a drug. Caffiene can provide an immediate lift that increases energy and stamina, Caffiene can also increase sex drive.
> However, too much caffiene can cause heart palpitations and fatigue.
>
> -Is caffiene safe and effective when combined with antidepressants? I read that many people believe caffiene combined with maoi's make the drugs work better and reduce the chance of poop-out.
>
> -Please let me know your personal experiences with caffiene and any information you can add about positive or negative effects of caffiene. Most pdocs say no caffiene or very little especially if you suffer from anxiety.
>
> Thanks, TylerI suffer from terrible anxiety, but I have to stay awake.
My pdoc told me not to combine caffeine and Ritalin, but I did anyway because it seems the drowsiness is so severe it needs several drugs to lift it (not dispel it). Provigil + about 400 mg caffeine per day (normal dose Provigil 300 mg) is how i get through the day. There's still a lot of drowsiness. It seems the prescription stims help more with the attention problems, while the caffeine keeps the physical 'engine' going.
yes, it probably aggravates my anxiety, but being unable to function because I am in a severe fog is pretty anxiety-inducing in itself, and it helps to be able to get out of the house, if only to buy groceries. Caffeine is less anxiogenic than ritalin, more so than Provigil, it is possibly less antidepressant than provigil but has been shown statistically to lower the suicide rate (which I consider proof of its AD effect). And I am actually calmer knowing that I'm more awake than I would be without the caffeine.
I have had no problems combining it with nortriptyline.-z
Posted by pseudoname on March 5, 2006, at 15:06:51
In reply to CAFFIENE...Good or Bad?, posted by TylerJ on March 5, 2006, at 14:17:03
Caffeine does wonders for me in very small doses, but only if I haven't had it for several days. If I use it every day, it's worthless, although I start mildly craving it anyway, if I take it every day.
I've tried combining it with various meds I've been on to see if they could prolong its effect, but no luck yet.
Posted by willyee on March 5, 2006, at 16:50:01
In reply to Re: CAFFIENE...Good or Bad? » TylerJ, posted by zeugma on March 5, 2006, at 15:06:02
Ive often wondered if the caffiene i was using was helping or not,i mean my meds can make me so tired that even 3 tabs of caffiene,what for a normal person would send them sky high hardly keeps me going.
Im curious if the dose range of 500 mg or so is toxic daily?
Posted by yxibow on March 5, 2006, at 17:23:25
In reply to CAFFIENE...Good or Bad?, posted by TylerJ on March 5, 2006, at 14:17:03
> CAFFIENE
>
>
> Most of us use caffiene so often that we don't even think of it as a drug. Caffiene can provide an immediate lift that increases energy and stamina, Caffiene can also increase sex drive.
> However, too much caffiene can cause heart palpitations and fatigue.
>
> -Is caffiene safe and effective when combined with antidepressants? I read that many people believe caffiene combined with maoi's make the drugs work better and reduce the chance of poop-out.
>
> -Please let me know your personal experiences with caffiene and any information you can add about positive or negative effects of caffiene. Most pdocs say no caffiene or very little especially if you suffer from anxiety.
>
> Thanks, Tyler
In college I could bring around a double walled thermos with 4 shots of espresso in it. But that's Seattle and everyone there is on a caffeine IV drip. Can't do it now, it aggravates my current primary anxiety complex disorder as well as messing up my GI system (needn't go into details but shall we say urgency of #2) and increasing general anxiety overall.
Caffeine also is an issue with some medications such as Luvox, cimetadine, Cipro, etc, as it can be inhibited at P450 CYP1A2 and possibly CYP3A4, so that the clearance of caffeine is reduced and in extreme cases caffeine toxicity can be developed.
Posted by zeugma on March 5, 2006, at 17:57:31
In reply to Re: CAFFIENE...Good or Bad?, posted by willyee on March 5, 2006, at 16:50:01
500 mg is not a toxic dose, although it certainly may cause uncomfortable effects in susceptible individuals.
I took a nap, woke up at 6 pm with a headache, as I always do, took 200 mg caffeine along with 100 mg nortriptyline to dispel the headache and function somewhat tonight.
I have never taken an MAOI but they typically warn about excess caffeine consumption. But I imagine you would feel the cardiac effects of caffeine toxicity.
-z
Posted by john berk on March 5, 2006, at 18:01:32
In reply to re..Caffeine and P450 » TylerJ, posted by yxibow on March 5, 2006, at 17:23:25
Hi,
i actually went off luvox, because one cup of coffee interacted so poorly, i was agitated till 2 in the afternoon. most people would do the reverse, quit the caffiene, but i am like willyee, when on meds, especially now after 4 years of prozac, i need 2-3 caffiene tabs a day to make it through, and sometimes still nap in the afternoon. but i feel that caffiene in the morning, with one tyrosine capsule, has made me feel much better, i think it does me more good than harm, my depression seems to get worse when i am real tired. just my expeirence...john
Posted by willyee on March 5, 2006, at 18:57:18
In reply to Re: re..Caffeine and P450 » yxibow, posted by john berk on March 5, 2006, at 18:01:32
Tired and weak,i mean i can consume not at a single time but through the day NUMEROUS tabs due to the fact some times im literaly weak and tired as one can be,and the caffiene stinks cause it povides a QUICK energy bust but overall nothing lasting,and im sure in the long run its only ruinint my med and hurting me more,but i had actual stimulants and they did worse than caffiene,i also have no interaction,noticable one on maoi btw.
Ritalin felt at the start not to etiehr,but ritalin/parnate combo landed me in ER due to vivid cycling dreaming after no sleep for days,caiffiene never got that ugly it simpyl dies out on ya.So there u could tell there was a major differece with two different players,but in effect the ritalin offered little to no advantage over the fatigue problem,just mind energy which i dident need.
Posted by Phillipa on March 5, 2006, at 21:38:04
In reply to re..Caffeine and P450 » TylerJ, posted by yxibow on March 5, 2006, at 17:23:25
Hey Jay you stole my post I was going to post that caffeine and luvox don't mix. Glad to hear I was right about something. Love Phillipa
Posted by TylerJ on March 5, 2006, at 21:52:09
In reply to Re: re..Caffeine and P450, posted by willyee on March 5, 2006, at 18:57:18
Did you ever take it with a dose of Parnate (both at the same time)? If so, did it seem to "augment" the Parnate? Just curious.
Caffiene definitely gives me a nice lift, but unfortunately also causes fatigue in large doses,i.e. 400-500mgs a day. I only take a small amount of caffiene in per day now...1-2 diet pepsi's. But this morning my children woke me up very early and i was dog tired,even after my morning dose of Parnate...don't get me wrong I still felt good but very sluggish. So I took 100 mgs of caffiene and man I felt much better with in about 1/2 hour...at noon I took another 100mgs. and I really had a nice day!
How are you doing Willyee? Take care.Ty
Posted by gibber on March 5, 2006, at 23:00:03
In reply to CAFFIENE...Good or Bad?, posted by TylerJ on March 5, 2006, at 14:17:03
I have just recently been weening myself off coffee. 2-3 cups a day. I had been on Nardil and drank coffee with no ill effects. My selegiline/DLPA combo is supposed to be activating and I think I may be experiencing that. Irregardless I want to see how I function with no caffiene. In an ideal world I'm hoping my own body rhythm will keep me awake. We'll see how it goes.
Posted by willyee on March 7, 2006, at 1:06:21
In reply to Re: re..Caffeine and P450 » willyee, posted by TylerJ on March 5, 2006, at 21:52:09
Parnate definatly seemed to have a synergy with caffiene,it feels harmless and most times helpful,however i wonder if in the long scheme of things i ruined parnates effects but constantly adding caffiene.
Posted by pseudoname on March 7, 2006, at 10:00:33
In reply to Re: re..Caffeine and P450, posted by willyee on March 7, 2006, at 1:06:21
Last year when I tried the opioid receptor-blocker naltrexone, the morning after my first dose, instead of jonesing for coffee as usual, I had absolutely no interest in caffeine.
When I tried a couple small glasses of Diet Coke after that (maybe 25 mg caffeine), I felt a slight version of the usual warm/fuzzy effect, but with no interest in escalating it. Usually I want more more more caffeine.
Posted by wireless on March 7, 2006, at 17:18:05
In reply to Re: CAFFIENE...Good or Bad? » TylerJ, posted by zeugma on March 5, 2006, at 15:06:02
While on Prozac 20mgs, I had to consume massive quantities of coffee (8+ cups!) at various points throughout the day to concentrate and to assuage the foggy feeling. I developed GERD and thereafter had to limit myself to 2 cups a day max. The need to consume large amounts of coffee was also a problem before Prozac, but was definitely exacerbated by the med. Eventually I was diagnosed withh ADD and medicated accordingly. I too consumed caffeine with Ritalin (20mg/day), although the under-3 cups per day dose. Sometimes, I would develop weird (at times scary) fluttering pains in my chest, so I wouldn't necessarily recommend it. But I did find it especially necessary to consume coffee in the morning to function before the Ritalin began to fully work.
Posted by TylerJ on March 7, 2006, at 19:12:08
In reply to Re: CAFFIENE...Good or Bad?, posted by wireless on March 7, 2006, at 17:18:05
> While on Prozac 20mgs, I had to consume massive quantities of coffee (8+ cups!) at various points throughout the day to concentrate and to assuage the foggy feeling. I developed GERD and thereafter had to limit myself to 2 cups a day max. The need to consume large amounts of coffee was also a problem before Prozac, but was definitely exacerbated by the med. Eventually I was diagnosed withh ADD and medicated accordingly. I too consumed caffeine with Ritalin (20mg/day), although the under-3 cups per day dose. Sometimes, I would develop weird (at times scary) fluttering pains in my chest, so I wouldn't necessarily recommend it. But I did find it especially necessary to consume coffee in the morning to function before the Ritalin began to fully work.
Thanks for your imput...I'm starting to think Caffiene, other than a little in the morning,is a dead end.
Tyler
Posted by detroitpistons on March 8, 2006, at 15:59:23
In reply to CAFFIENE...Good or Bad?, posted by TylerJ on March 5, 2006, at 14:17:03
I usually have no problem with caffeine. I have a cup in the morning to wake me up.
However, I recently became hypomanic on Effexor, and even 1 cup of coffee made me want to jump out of my skin. I seriously turned into a wreck if I drank coffee. Now I'm on Lamictal and I can drink it again.
> CAFFIENE
>
>
> Most of us use caffiene so often that we don't even think of it as a drug. Caffiene can provide an immediate lift that increases energy and stamina, Caffiene can also increase sex drive.
> However, too much caffiene can cause heart palpitations and fatigue.
>
> -Is caffiene safe and effective when combined with antidepressants? I read that many people believe caffiene combined with maoi's make the drugs work better and reduce the chance of poop-out.
>
> -Please let me know your personal experiences with caffiene and any information you can add about positive or negative effects of caffiene. Most pdocs say no caffiene or very little especially if you suffer from anxiety.
>
> Thanks, Tyler
Posted by zeugma on March 10, 2006, at 14:35:35
In reply to Re: CAFFIENE...Good or Bad? » TylerJ, posted by detroitpistons on March 8, 2006, at 15:59:23
good or bad, I just took a 200 mg caffeine tablet to keep awake though I am so tired all I want to do is sleep. I have truly horrific sleep paralysis/hypnagogics on provigil, if i let myself lie down in the afternoon, and I really have little incentive to do anything but lie down (exhausted, stressed). The hypnagogics/paralysis was terible- it was like an undifferentiated assault on my nervous system, i was actually able to open my eyes though i was completely paralyzed. and really, when im exhausted, neither provigil nor ritalin keeps me awake if i lie down. the only dofference is that ritalin's sympathomimetic effects let me sleep normally.
caffeine it is. going to lie back down, hopefully not fall asleep.
-z
Posted by tessellated on March 11, 2006, at 7:26:39
In reply to Re: CAFFIENE...Good or Bad?, posted by zeugma on March 10, 2006, at 14:35:35
zuegma: hmmm, are you %100 sure it's provigil?
i have these surreal, though less and less distrubing experiences, though i notice to result from serotonergic agents. trazadone and 5HTP. though provigils in the mix at times, i never made that association.> good or bad, I just took a 200 mg caffeine tablet to keep awake though I am so tired all I want to do is sleep. I have truly horrific sleep paralysis/hypnagogics on provigil, if i let myself lie down in the afternoon, and I really have little incentive to do anything but lie down (exhausted, stressed). The hypnagogics/paralysis was terible- it was like an undifferentiated assault on my nervous system, i was actually able to open my eyes though i was completely paralyzed. and really, when im exhausted, neither provigil nor ritalin keeps me awake if i lie down. the only dofference is that ritalin's sympathomimetic effects let me sleep normally.
>
> caffeine it is. going to lie back down, hopefully not fall asleep.
>
> -z
Posted by Cairo on March 14, 2006, at 18:19:57
In reply to CAFFIENE...Good or Bad?, posted by TylerJ on March 5, 2006, at 14:17:03
Can't tolerate caffeine, even the itty bit in decaf coffee. Nor can I eat chocolate (contains theobromine, said to be a smooth muscle stimulant, but I can't fall asleep if I have a chocolate dessert with dinner). One or two glasses of wine also stimulates me rather than sedates me. I won't fall asleep until 3-4am after a party. I just don't do these anymore. Not worth the awful price I pay for lack of sleep.
Anything with norepi reuptake inhibition makes me a basket case - panic attacks, anxiety, muscle tension. Tried Cymbalta and liked the energy it gave me at 5mg, but my muscles were in hyperdrive and I didn't want to pay the long term price.
Pregabalin is said to lower norepinephrine. This may be why it has an antianxiety effect in me.
Cairo
Posted by Caedmon on March 15, 2006, at 18:37:41
In reply to CAFFIENE...Good or Bad?, posted by TylerJ on March 5, 2006, at 14:17:03
> -Is caffiene safe and effective when combined with antidepressants? I read that many people believe caffiene combined with maoi's make the drugs work better and reduce the chance of poop-out.
>I combine it with my bupropion with great success. I love caffeine. It makes me feel alert and energetic.
> -Please let me know your personal experiences with caffiene and any information you can add about positive or negative effects of caffiene. Most pdocs say no caffiene or very little especially if you suffer from anxiety.
>
>I can understand this, but I'm not classic anxious. I'm socially phobic. I'm more on the depressed-avoidant end of things than the "wound-up physically terrified" sort.
Caffeine *alleviates* some of my depression and withdrawn behavior when I use it in moderate doses.
This is the end of the thread.
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