![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 16 of 16. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by linkadge on December 13, 2004, at 19:27:51
Does anyone get that feeling that they don't exist. I feel as if I am a marionett and that these meds are just pulling strings and moving me around. I have no sence of self. It's the worst feeling ever. It is so scarry too. It's kind of like every day somebody dims the light a little more, Its done so subtley that you don't notice it. But you wake up one day and you're gone.
For me, it's not about being sad, or anxious, or angry, or irritable, it's about my lifeforce slowly slipping away from me.
Please say you know what I mean.
Linkadge
Posted by Colleen D. on December 13, 2004, at 20:15:01
In reply to the feeling of nonexistance, posted by linkadge on December 13, 2004, at 19:27:51
I've felt that way, yeah, but it was BEFORE I started taking meds. I'm sorry to hear that you're going through this now. It sounded like you were doing so well with your device. Is that therapy still helping at all???
Best wishes,
Colleen
Posted by jujube on December 13, 2004, at 20:19:13
In reply to the feeling of nonexistance, posted by linkadge on December 13, 2004, at 19:27:51
I think I know what you mean, and I have been there myself in the recent past. It is a weird, unnerving sensation to say the least. I think you have articulated it quite well. If I had to describe the feeling I have had, I would be inclined to say that it is like a wave of fatigue that comes with an overwhelming awareness that I don't know what my purpose in life is, or even what the meaning of life is and why we are all here. It's like everything has gone totally quiet, and I am so aware of myself and the world around me, but unable to figure out what it's all about. And, sometimes I think it happens when I am, or have been, living inside my head - thinking too much, analyzing too much, hypothecizing too much, etc. There are no feelings of sadness, anger, anxiety or euphoria, but there is this feeling of perhaps aloneness and a sense that I am really not the master of my own universe, no matter how hare and how fast I try to spin my wheels. And, at times like that, I think about what it must have been years and years and years ago in a time when there was a true sense of community and belonging. In a time when people were not too busy to care about their neighbors. I am certainly not a pessimistic person by nature, but I sometimes sense an emptiness in people, including myself, that I don't think probably existed in an age where people were more willing to reach out and lend a hand instead of constantly chasing elusive dreams. I am going to stop now because I am becoming a bit of a downer, and am probably not making much sense. Sorry about that.
Tamara
> Does anyone get that feeling that they don't exist. I feel as if I am a marionett and that these meds are just pulling strings and moving me around. I have no sence of self. It's the worst feeling ever. It is so scarry too. It's kind of like every day somebody dims the light a little more, Its done so subtley that you don't notice it. But you wake up one day and you're gone.
>
> For me, it's not about being sad, or anxious, or angry, or irritable, it's about my lifeforce slowly slipping away from me.
>
> Please say you know what I mean.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Linkadge
>
>
Posted by ace on December 13, 2004, at 20:30:03
In reply to the feeling of nonexistance, posted by linkadge on December 13, 2004, at 19:27:51
> Does anyone get that feeling that they don't exist. I feel as if I am a marionett and that these meds are just pulling strings and moving me around. I have no sence of self. It's the worst feeling ever. It is so scarry too. It's kind of like every day somebody dims the light a little more, Its done so subtley that you don't notice it. But you wake up one day and you're gone.
>
> For me, it's not about being sad, or anxious, or angry, or irritable, it's about my lifeforce slowly slipping away from me.
>
> Please say you know what I mean.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> LinkadgeG'day mate!,
I think the aeitiology of this is due to more of an endogenous setting...for example, you could try and jump into life...play sports, date girls, be crazy! You are not slipping from reality...
Of course u need stable meds, but as well, do something...even if it takes a while to fully enjoy it- learn an instrument, play cards, develope assertive behaviour, cultivate your family life (if applicable)...be around positive people and shun the negative...
Try this phenomenal book (and everyone knows I'm against this 'self-help' fad here, but this book is a winner)
""Love is Letting go of Fear"
God bless and peace to you....
Ace
>
Posted by ace on December 13, 2004, at 20:30:56
In reply to Re: the feeling of nonexistance ?linkadge, posted by ace on December 13, 2004, at 20:30:03
Posted by banga on December 13, 2004, at 21:22:32
In reply to Re: the feeling of nonexistance raquo; linkadge, posted by ace on December 13, 2004, at 20:30:56
I at least partially have similar feelings, though different...I dont feel a slave to the drugs, but I do have a pervasive sense of disconnectedness to the world around me. I walk around, supposedly existing but dont feel it. You know the expression people say to check if they are really there experiencing something, they have to "pinch themselves?" Well I feel like I would need to pinch myself every 30 seconds to confirm that I exist. I have compared living in depression like living in a black and white movie...all seems gray and distant, not quite 3-dimensional.
I have had meds pull me out of this horrid state somewhat, the environment turning color and 3-dimensional and textured, and most of all--feeling that I am THERE to enjoy it.
Though suggestions to get out there and do it are well-meant, in some phases of mental illness it is even more distressing to try and participate--because you feel handicapped to actually EXPERIENCE activities. Not only the emotions, but the actual recognition that you are alive and connected. At times in therapy when they say be in the "here and now", I get upset because I cant BE in the "here and now" no matter how I try. This to me highlights the biological basis of my suffering--I feel it is a physical block, not emotional, that keeps me feeling a part of life. Just as meditation is horrid, because my anxious mind just takes that excuse to run even harder in obsessive thoughts.
Meds dave not across the board exascerbated this disconnect, though some may have me in more of a fog (like Geodon for me.) But SSRIs long term have definitely blunted my emotions, having less feelings of empathy or tenderness.
As I said, your experience seems to differ in specifics, yet that sense of not being a part of life in a normal way does certainly speak o me....
Posted by Dr. Bob on December 14, 2004, at 3:29:58
In reply to Re: the feeling of nonexistance raquo; linkadge, posted by ace on December 13, 2004, at 20:30:56
Posted by tensor on December 14, 2004, at 10:36:27
In reply to the feeling of nonexistance, posted by linkadge on December 13, 2004, at 19:27:51
Yes, i know exactly what you mean. It's like standing on a plattform and watching the life passing by, not being allowed to participate. Everyday i'm more distanced from the real world, more aware that everytime i recover, get stronger and self-confident, i know it's only a matter of time when it's all torn apart again.
/Mattias
Posted by vwoolf on December 14, 2004, at 12:56:01
In reply to Re: the feeling of nonexistance » linkadge, posted by tensor on December 14, 2004, at 10:36:27
I know that feeling well. Everything feels unreal, as if there is cotton wool between you and reality, and you can't, and are not sure if you want to, get through it.
Posted by Lazarus on December 14, 2004, at 14:27:19
In reply to the feeling of nonexistance, posted by linkadge on December 13, 2004, at 19:27:51
You're profoundly depressed. Try Wellbutrin XL 150 once a day.
Lazarus
Posted by linkadge on December 14, 2004, at 16:11:21
In reply to Re: the feeling of nonexistance, posted by Lazarus on December 14, 2004, at 14:27:19
I was thinking of trying another route than the SSRI's. Maybe wellbutrin, or nortriptaline.
Linkadge
Posted by francesco on December 14, 2004, at 16:51:24
In reply to Re: the feeling of nonexistance, posted by linkadge on December 14, 2004, at 16:11:21
Of course I know what you're talking about. I first thought it was caused by the meds, but now I'm not on meds and I feel the some way you feel.
My opinion is that it can be dued to depression itself (even if you feel not *depressed*), to the meds you're taking (SSRIs do cause *apathy* and apathy seems very similar to what you're describing), to a personality disorder (the sense of emptiness is a diagnostical criterion for borderline and narcissistic personality I think).
Anyway how do you do *without* meds ? I think that noradrenergic meds are worth of a trial.
Posted by JackD on December 14, 2004, at 17:45:30
In reply to Re: the feeling of nonexistance, posted by linkadge on December 14, 2004, at 16:11:21
Nice post Banga. I've experienced such a wide spectrum of drug-induced altered states of perception, both physically and mentally, that I'm sure I can relate. Not to beat a dead horse, but I'm a believer in the whole NMDA antagonist and receptor desensitization deal. I'd really suggest you at least give it a shot, maybe even on my combination of Effexor and Remeron. E-mail me, I'd like to talk; I know how frustrating it can be not to have anyone that can even come close to fathom what we as brain chemistry tinkerers experience.
Posted by Mistermindmasta on December 15, 2004, at 0:00:24
In reply to the feeling of nonexistance, posted by linkadge on December 13, 2004, at 19:27:51
> Does anyone get that feeling that they don't exist. I feel as if I am a marionett and that these meds are just pulling strings and moving me around. I have no sence of self. It's the worst feeling ever. It is so scarry too. It's kind of like every day somebody dims the light a little more, Its done so subtley that you don't notice it. But you wake up one day and you're gone.
>
> For me, it's not about being sad, or anxious, or angry, or irritable, it's about my lifeforce slowly slipping away from me.
>
> Please say you know what I mean.
>
>
I'm not sure if I know exactly what you're talking about, but I think so...I tend to feel this way after a night of heavy drinking, then lots of caffeine the next day and sleep deprivation. My senses are dulled and I feel very very VERY out of it - I guess you could say I feel like I'm dreaming.
Not necessarily related to this topic, but have you attempted any major dietary alterations for your problems?
I suggest a 2 week trial of:
1. no gluten / no dairy diet
- or -
2. as close to a no sugar diet as you can come
Gluten / dairy and large quantities of sugar give me underactive ADD / atypical depression symptoms... just thought I'd suggest that in case you haven't explored the route of food sensitivities and the like. I think everyone on this board should give it a fair chance.
Posted by linkadge on December 15, 2004, at 11:33:25
In reply to Re: the feeling of nonexistance, posted by Mistermindmasta on December 15, 2004, at 0:00:24
Oh I've attempted every dietary modification in the book.
I've spent literally thousands of dollers on alternative supplements over the past few years.
Linkadge
Posted by banga on December 15, 2004, at 18:06:37
In reply to Re: the feeling of nonexistance, posted by linkadge on December 15, 2004, at 11:33:25
I too have gone through diet and supplement programs. I actually went to a program called Bio-recovery (Dr Larsens program) for 6 weeks (for alcoholism and depression). Everything was tested and tried. I was off of all medicathons for over 3 months. The program did help to repair my body from the alcohol abuse and lessen cravings, but did little for depression and feelings of unreality. The therapists were at a loss as to why there was no improvement.
Having said that, I did (later on on my own) find that I had a B12 deficiency and when I supplemented with the neuroactive B12 form methylcobalamin I was helped to some degree. Trying the supplement route is worthwhile, but does not necessarily help everyone.
A good company that offers supplements at great prices is NSI (Neutraceutical Sciences INstitute) that is only available on the internet. Their combo formulas are awesome-high quality ingredients at a good price.
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.