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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by 4WD on September 10, 2004, at 5:11:04
In reply to does anyone feel good during the night...only, posted by mike lynch on September 9, 2004, at 23:48:11
> During the day my mood is generally pretty low..if i'm not at school I generally asleep all day and really have no interest in anything..At night..for what ever reason I cheer up and my mood lifts somewhat.. DOes this happen to anyone else...any explanations?/
Hi Mike,I have exactly the same thing. I don't know how it will be on my new meds (Cymbalta) but for a long time now, I would feel low and grim and tired all day. The bad feeling would peak in late afternoon. When it starts to get dark, I start to feel better. Sometimes it's very distinct - I can actually feel a sharp change, like a sigh of relief as I feel it lift.
I think it might have to do with cortisol levels? I understand that feeling better at night is common in depression but I don't think I've ever really heard an explanation of why. I think I'll ask my pdoc next time I see him.
Marsha
Posted by Buckeye Fan on September 10, 2004, at 7:24:52
In reply to i only feel good at night too, posted by tai daluna on September 10, 2004, at 3:17:32
Same here.
I really dont know why...but the later on the evening the better I feel. Its kinda comforting to here others experiance the same thing.Now when I have been on AD's...the daytime low mood level goes away. As someone mentioned a couple posts agao...AD's do take care of the problem for me also.
This being my 4th month, AD free....the low mood has returned ( with a vengence) and I for the first time am hating the morning.Its terrible to "wish for the night"...its like wishing your life away.
Thanks for asking the question Mike...maybe someone can find out WHY ...and put the answer in a pill for us lol!BF
Posted by jenn007 on September 10, 2004, at 10:54:35
In reply to does anyone feel good during the night...only, posted by mike lynch on September 9, 2004, at 23:48:11
> During the day my mood is generally pretty low..if i'm not at school I generally asleep all day and really have no interest in anything..At night..for what ever reason I cheer up and my mood lifts somewhat.. DOes this happen to anyone else...any explanations?/
I also feel like this - funny u said that, because i was wondering about that the other day... i always feel as if i get more done at night than during the day.. which is wierd b/c sometimes i have all day to myself to clean and do chores around the house, but i dont feel like it for some reason. then at night, instead of winding down, i want to do all kinds of things. i feel backwards.
Posted by Sad Panda on September 10, 2004, at 11:01:13
In reply to feeling better at night, posted by jenn007 on September 10, 2004, at 10:54:35
Is everbody who hates mornings depressed, or is it just us?
Cheers,
Paul.
Posted by KXo on September 10, 2004, at 12:53:26
In reply to Re: does anyone feel good during the night--mike, posted by alesta on September 10, 2004, at 0:24:43
I feel better at night because the telephone does not ring, I don´t have to answer the door, the house is just for me, it is quiet...
==KXo
Posted by Steve3211 on September 10, 2004, at 15:24:36
In reply to Re: i only feel good at night too, posted by Buckeye Fan on September 10, 2004, at 7:24:52
> Same here.
> I really dont know why...but the later on the evening the better I feel. Its kinda comforting to here others experiance the same thing.
>
> Now when I have been on AD's...the daytime low mood level goes away. As someone mentioned a couple posts agao...AD's do take care of the problem for me also.
> This being my 4th month, AD free....the low mood has returned ( with a vengence) and I for the first time am hating the morning.
>
> Its terrible to "wish for the night"...its like wishing your life away.
> Thanks for asking the question Mike...maybe someone can find out WHY ...and put the answer in a pill for us lol!
>
> BF
Same here. To me its pretty obvious, I am not a morning person. Morning is when you have to get up and face all the responsibilities of the day. This is really difficult if you are anxious and depressed. Coming home and just chilling with the wife and kids is my favorite time of day.
Steve
Posted by alesta on September 10, 2004, at 16:08:28
In reply to i only feel good at night too, posted by tai daluna on September 10, 2004, at 3:17:32
hi, tai,
yes, i have heard this, too...there has also actually been a gene discovered that determines whether you are a night owl or not..i definitely got the gene muhself..:)
amy:)
Posted by Denise1904 on September 10, 2004, at 16:28:28
In reply to does anyone feel good during the night...only, posted by mike lynch on September 9, 2004, at 23:48:11
Mike,
That was exactly how I felt when I was really depressed, suicidal and anxious 3 years ago, I seemed to spend my days feeling depressed, dazed and anxious and as the evening descended I'd feel this sudden calmness wash over me like the calm after a storm. Thing is I'd also feel very weak and fragile, because of the emotional battering I'd been through during the day.
I couldn't work out if I felt slightly better at night because as you said the day was over and I no longer felt obliged to do anything so it was a relief or if there was some chemical change that ocurrs in the evening.
Denise
Posted by BJM on September 10, 2004, at 17:19:21
In reply to Morning People, posted by Sad Panda on September 10, 2004, at 11:01:13
Well I'm the total opposite. I do great until around 2:30 - 3:00 and then I start getting really depressed and anxious. I totally dread the night. Anyone got a clue on that because now that the days are getting shorter the dread is starting earlier? And I already use a light box for SAD so I'm thinking its not that.
Posted by alesta on September 10, 2004, at 17:32:07
In reply to Re: Morning People, posted by BJM on September 10, 2004, at 17:19:21
hi, there:),
i have no clue..but i would ask the same type of questions i asked mike (except in reverse :)) :
is there something negative that you associate the nighttime with? do your activities change to less pleasant ones for you at night? are you less or more active mentally or physically at night, and dislike this? or is there some conflict at home, which you don't like?(there definitely could be other reasons that i am unaware of, but i'm just throwing these out there for ya..:))
amy
Posted by KaraS on September 10, 2004, at 17:38:19
In reply to does anyone feel good during the night...only, posted by mike lynch on September 9, 2004, at 23:48:11
I think that the genetic predisposition and less stressors are only part of the picture. It may also be physiological, having to do with the reuptake of neurotransmitters. Doesn't most of the reuptake happen when you are asleep? Then during the day, more of the neurotransmitters are made and so you have the most neurotransmitters available in the synapses at that time. This may be why if you stay up all night, you don't feel depressed (and in fact it can cause mania in some people). Some people routinely stay up at least one night a week as an antidepressant measure. I believe that Linkadge is doing that now.
-K
Posted by 4WD on September 10, 2004, at 18:43:55
In reply to Re: does anyone feel good during the night...Mike, posted by Denise1904 on September 10, 2004, at 16:28:28
> Mike,
>
> That was exactly how I felt when I was really depressed, suicidal and anxious 3 years ago, I seemed to spend my days feeling depressed, dazed and anxious and as the evening descended I'd feel this sudden calmness wash over me like the calm after a storm. Thing is I'd also feel very weak and fragile, because of the emotional battering I'd been through during the day.
>
> I couldn't work out if I felt slightly better at night because as you said the day was over and I no longer felt obliged to do anything so it was a relief or if there was some chemical change that ocurrs in the evening.
>
>
> Denise
I think it's more than just the day being over and having no more responsibilities. I was thinking that myself but sometimes it happens so suddenly, like something just clicks on or clicks off and there is this sudden sense of relief like I just took off 75 pound backpack.Marsha
Posted by 4WD on September 10, 2004, at 19:06:28
In reply to Re: does anyone feel good during the night...only » mike lynch, posted by KaraS on September 10, 2004, at 17:38:19
> I think that the genetic predisposition and less stressors are only part of the picture. It may also be physiological, having to do with the reuptake of neurotransmitters. Doesn't most of the reuptake happen when you are asleep? Then during the day, more of the neurotransmitters are made and so you have the most neurotransmitters available in the synapses at that time. This may be why if you stay up all night, you don't feel depressed (and in fact it can cause mania in some people). Some people routinely stay up at least one night a week as an antidepressant measure. I believe that Linkadge is doing that now.
>
> -K
>
>It's got to have something to do with cortisol levels and that whole HPA axis thing. Some of us have it one way and some the opposite but the shift seems to happen at about the same time for everybody - late afternoon or early evening. And that's the same time that cortisol levels change. I think they are supposed to slowly rise in the early morning to wake you up and are at their lowest at night. I can't remember if they peak or bottom out in late afternoon. But maybe different people's responses to high or low levels of cortisol is related to different people's responses to different classes of a/d drugs (why some people respond better to different neurotransmitter manipulation).
Marsha
>
Posted by KaraS on September 10, 2004, at 21:07:25
In reply to Re: does anyone feel good during the night...only, posted by 4WD on September 10, 2004, at 19:06:28
> > I think that the genetic predisposition and less stressors are only part of the picture. It may also be physiological, having to do with the reuptake of neurotransmitters. Doesn't most of the reuptake happen when you are asleep? Then during the day, more of the neurotransmitters are made and so you have the most neurotransmitters available in the synapses at that time. This may be why if you stay up all night, you don't feel depressed (and in fact it can cause mania in some people). Some people routinely stay up at least one night a week as an antidepressant measure. I believe that Linkadge is doing that now.
> >
> > -K
> >
> >
>
> It's got to have something to do with cortisol levels and that whole HPA axis thing. Some of us have it one way and some the opposite but the shift seems to happen at about the same time for everybody - late afternoon or early evening. And that's the same time that cortisol levels change. I think they are supposed to slowly rise in the early morning to wake you up and are at their lowest at night. I can't remember if they peak or bottom out in late afternoon. But maybe different people's responses to high or low levels of cortisol is related to different people's responses to different classes of a/d drugs (why some people respond better to different neurotransmitter manipulation).
>
> Marsha
> >
>
Marsha,
That could very well be. Mine suggestion was just a guess. I have a feeling that cortisol is involved with my insomnia as well. But how would the cortisol/HPA axis fit in with people (including myself) feeling so undepressed when we stay up all night?Kara
Posted by alesta on September 10, 2004, at 22:37:49
In reply to Re: does anyone feel good during the night...only, posted by 4WD on September 10, 2004, at 19:06:28
that's an interesting and definite possibility, marsha!:)
amy :0)
> > I think that the genetic predisposition and less stressors are only part of the picture. It may also be physiological, having to do with the reuptake of neurotransmitters. Doesn't most of the reuptake happen when you are asleep? Then during the day, more of the neurotransmitters are made and so you have the most neurotransmitters available in the synapses at that time. This may be why if you stay up all night, you don't feel depressed (and in fact it can cause mania in some people). Some people routinely stay up at least one night a week as an antidepressant measure. I believe that Linkadge is doing that now.
> >
> > -K
> >
> >
>
> It's got to have something to do with cortisol levels and that whole HPA axis thing. Some of us have it one way and some the opposite but the shift seems to happen at about the same time for everybody - late afternoon or early evening. And that's the same time that cortisol levels change. I think they are supposed to slowly rise in the early morning to wake you up and are at their lowest at night. I can't remember if they peak or bottom out in late afternoon. But maybe different people's responses to high or low levels of cortisol is related to different people's responses to different classes of a/d drugs (why some people respond better to different neurotransmitter manipulation).
>
> Marsha
> >
>
>
Posted by starlight on September 11, 2004, at 10:56:08
In reply to Re: Morning People, posted by BJM on September 10, 2004, at 17:19:21
I'm a bona fide morning person. I think I'm really a night lover who has adapted to having a job where I have to wake up early. I kind of just bounce up, grab my coffee and am ready to go. I even prefer morning or early afternoon sex. Once 10:00 pm rolls around, I'm ready for bed. I think if I were on a different time schedule I'd love it.
starlight
Posted by incessant void on September 11, 2004, at 21:10:02
In reply to Re: does anyone feel good during the night--mike, posted by mike lynch on September 10, 2004, at 0:40:56
" I think it probably does have to do with what you mentioned above...I'm usually alone at night and I don't have to deal with anyone or be pressured to do anything since it's a time to unwind and relax basically..it seems like all the
I've been on the cycle of..sleeping during most of the day and being quite productive ( in comparison to day) during the night.."
hey mike,
i'm exactly the same way. i have been a "night owl" for as long as i can remember -- NEVER a morning person!! -- but my sleep "schedule" has gotten more extreme over the years as i became more depressed. my usual schedule is to sleep from sometime in the morning -- 5, 6, often 7 or 8 am, and sleep all day. for example, it's about 7pm for me in CA and i just woke up a few minutes ago. i like the night because, as you said, i can be alone and no one will hassle me... feel as if i am constantly holding my breath in anticipation of incoming stressors... when soemone says my name, my heart jumps, because i assume they are going to say something bad. at night i feel like i can breathe again. i can cope with 'life' in the only way i know how and try to stay sane without judgement.
Posted by poop'd-out on September 12, 2004, at 2:01:28
In reply to Re: does anyone feel good during the night...Mike, posted by 4WD on September 10, 2004, at 18:43:55
> > Mike,
> >
> > That was exactly how I felt when I was really depressed, suicidal and anxious 3 years ago, I seemed to spend my days feeling depressed, dazed and anxious and as the evening descended I'd feel this sudden calmness wash over me like the calm after a storm. Thing is I'd also feel very weak and fragile, because of the emotional battering I'd been through during the day.
> >
> > I couldn't work out if I felt slightly better at night because as you said the day was over and I no longer felt obliged to do anything so it was a relief or if there was some chemical change that ocurrs in the evening.
> >
> >
> > Denise
>
>
> I think it's more than just the day being over and having no more responsibilities. I was thinking that myself but sometimes it happens so suddenly, like something just clicks on or clicks off and there is this sudden sense of relief like I just took off 75 pound backpack.
>
> Marsha
>Yep,
Me too. I was just wondering about that myself. I actually have wondered many times.
I am with Marsha on this one, I definitely feel this sudden release and suddenly I can breathe again. It can start as early as 4 but usually around 7pm. Not every night do I get this wonderful release, sometimes the day has just been too taxing. I tend to be free in the mornings and afternoons with no pressure yet still feel crappy and have trouble getting anything accomplished.Beth
Posted by BJM on September 12, 2004, at 14:20:37
In reply to Re: Morning People, posted by alesta on September 10, 2004, at 17:32:07
In answer to your questions:
> is there something negative that you associate the nighttime with? Lack of sleep since I am a mom of 4 kids under 10 yrs.
do your activities change to less pleasant ones for you at night? Not really.
are you less or more active mentally or physically at night, and dislike this?
Probably pretty tired at least. or is there some conflict at home, which you don't like?
Just the chaos of having 4 kids.I really think that it has something to do with the daylight since I remember feeling like this since I was a kid. I would try to stay outside until every ounce of daylight was gone or if I was in the house I would dread having to turn the lights on. I actually can't stand artificial light. But what else can I do when I already do the light box thing. I guess I could go broke and buy one for each room in my house but the good ones are definetly not cheap. I've often wondered if there was some neurotransmitter that was higher in the morning that wore down over the course of a day. It really doesn't matter whether I'm home with all the kids going crazy or home alone with nothing to do so I really don't think that it is stress related. I'm definetly getting nervous with the up and coming shorter days of winter on the way. Is there anywhere in the world where the days stay longer than the nights? Maybe I could move?!!! LOL
Posted by alesta on September 12, 2004, at 22:49:03
In reply to Re: Morning People, posted by BJM on September 12, 2004, at 14:20:37
sunlight is a mood elevator...you are probably right about this..
<Is there anywhere in the world where the days stay longer than the nights? Maybe I could move?!!! LOL
alaska would be a good choice..lol..there is daylight 24-7 for certain times of the year..:)
amy:)
Posted by alesta on September 12, 2004, at 23:02:30
In reply to Re: Morning People, posted by BJM on September 12, 2004, at 14:20:37
bjm, one more thought just came to me..it sounds like you might be relying on sunlight as a means to deal with depression perhaps...and then when the light runs out..you're miserable..if those few hours of unhappiness at night are tolerable for you, then that's fine, but if it's really hard to deal with, you might want to try an antidepressant (i would recommend you try a natural remedy first..i will give you details if you like...)
take care,:)
amy
Posted by cache-monkey on September 13, 2004, at 21:23:48
In reply to does anyone feel good during the night...only, posted by mike lynch on September 9, 2004, at 23:48:11
> During the day my mood is generally pretty low..if i'm not at school I generally asleep all day and really have no interest in anything..At night..for what ever reason I cheer up and my mood lifts somewhat.. DOes this happen to anyone else...any explanations?/
Like a number of the other posters in this thread, I have pretty much the same deal. Tired, spaced, and low for most of the day. Then (some days) after 7 pm or so I start feeling better. Another thing I seem to share with the other posters is "delayed phase syndrome" (getting up late, staying up late), as well as some sort of psychological ailment. I wanted to bring up a couple of possible mechansisms relating these.
First, sleep apnea might be a causal factor. It could explain feeling out of it when first waking up and then perking up over the day. Plus, I've read somewhere that it can lead to depression/anxiety. (For me, I had a sleep study done, and they didn't find me to be apneatic, but they could have caught me on an off night.)
Second, a delayed phase means that you're missing out on many daylight hours. This can mess up your internal clock, which means that the shifted schedule becomes self-reinforcing.
Missing out on a substantial number of daylight hours can also lower your mood in and of itself. I realized at some point that even at midsummer I was only getting the same number of daylight hours that 'normal' sleepers get in the winter. And that's enough to bum many 'normal' people by way of Seasonal Affective Disorder (SAD).
I've been trying to break out of this pattern as part of my treatment for depression and anxiety. I've been inching my wake time back (no big jumps or it's harder to stick to). It hasn't been easy; for me I basically have to accept the fact that the first half hour of the day is going to be hell. What's really helped as far as waking up is having my bedroom floor lamp on a timer and set to go on about 15-30 minutes before I want to wake up. This seems to be helping a little bit, so far.
I've also started bright light therapy, which has proven clinically therapeutic for SAD. I didn't buy a light box, which can be an expensive proposition. Instead, I rigged up a system of my own that should match the clinical specifications, but is much cheaper. If anyone's interested, I'll post the details to the main message board.
Anyway, I'm just starting with the earlier schedule and light therapy, so I don't have any results to report yet. I'm also looking into going on a medication for depression/anxiety again, since my starting point is pretty low. I'm looking at Cymbalta right now, but if anyone else with delayed phase has a suggestions, I'd love to hear it.
Peace,
cache-monkey
Posted by LeadingZero on September 13, 2004, at 23:53:58
In reply to i only feel good at night too, posted by tai daluna on September 10, 2004, at 3:17:32
I think it's because all the bothersome people have gone to sleep. It's quiet. You don't have to go anywhere or do anything specific. There's no traffic hum hanging over the city. Very... nice.
I found when I could get myself up really early, before they woke up, it was even more peaceful and fulfilling. But that's not too often.
Posted by Pluto on September 14, 2004, at 4:00:17
In reply to does anyone feel good during the night...only, posted by mike lynch on September 9, 2004, at 23:48:11
Hi Mike,
This is neurotic depression which will easily repond to atypical antipsychotics like zyprexa or risperidone. If you are in Europe, try amisulpiride or sulpiride.
Cheers
Posted by BJM on September 14, 2004, at 10:05:44
In reply to please disregard above post, meant to post this... » BJM, posted by alesta on September 12, 2004, at 23:02:30
Already taking antidepressants. The light therapy is my docs attempt at trying not to have to add on any more meds or increase doses. Maybe the Alaska route might be a good one. I hate cold weather though. God, aren't I picky!!!!
This is the end of the thread.
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