![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 22 to 46 of 69. Go back in thread:
Posted by geri122 on November 8, 2003, at 15:55:26
In reply to Re: Im i deppressed, posted by LynneDa on November 7, 2003, at 14:45:02
no prob with the help i mean, its the lest i could do, everyone seems to help people but me.
Posted by katia on November 9, 2003, at 15:27:10
In reply to Re: Im i deppressed, posted by geri122 on November 8, 2003, at 15:55:26
Hi Geri,
I just found your thread here and my heart goes out to you. I'm 33 and just a year ago I decided to finally acknowledge my own depression of 19 years+ and sought out help with medication. I spent a good year trying different antidepressants that weren't working to finally come to a diagnosis of bipolar II disorder, in which case I need a different type of medication - mood stabilizers. It just takes some preserverance to get the right med. And if you do go that route, just know that and don't get discouraged if the first one doesn't work. And know that if the med doesn't work it doesn't mean that you are not depressed - for you seem clearly depressed to me.I wish i'd have asked for help at your age. I just had no idea what was going on with me other than I was scared to death for years on end hiding away. I am grieving all those lost years now, thankful on one hand that I finally got help, but regretful of all the lost relationships, jobs, and time due to this "thing" I had no idea what "it" was; just something I needed to run from and hide away from other people.
I suggest if anything, since you say you're having a hard time expressing yourself print out your posts here and show them to your parents or a counselor. You went straight to the core of my experience with your words and I found you are very able to express your inner world. "For every smile i fake, i cry a thousands tears"
What you said there was so beautiful and I know exactly what you mean.
You may be surprised at the respsone you'll get. It may help to start with a "professional" and then that professional can relay the message that you are indeed ill and not faking anything. What I've found is that most people don't understand what depression is and just need some education. It's an invisible torment that most people cannot understand unless they experience it for themselves unfortunately.
It seems that this has been going on long enough that maybe medication is needed. and medication comes from a professional who can help guide you through this. You might be surprised at the support you get by reaching out.
good luck to you. And you are on the right track just by reaching out to this board and acknowledging your own depression. It'll save you years of torment to start addressing it now.
take good care,
Katia
Posted by geri122 on November 9, 2003, at 16:13:15
In reply to Re: Im i deppressed » geri122, posted by katia on November 9, 2003, at 15:27:10
yeah i know that this has been a big step into getting help.. and all i hear is tell someone. But when it comes to words i can't express it. I try to write it down on paper, but i never end up giving it to that person. another problem that i have is the fact that i don't want my parents to know. They won't understand, they'll think im faking, well im not. My dad is well know.. i mean he has worked for the community for years, i know that it will get back to him. I guess that i feel comfortable here because no one knows my identy. this is the easiest way i know i can express myself. i want to call a hot line, maybe see a councler, but to me its not that easy!
Posted by katia on November 9, 2003, at 16:34:38
In reply to Re: Im i deppressed, posted by geri122 on November 9, 2003, at 16:13:15
I know it's hard. It's probably the hardest step to reach out. But you never know until you try. Especially if you see a professional FIRST. It may just be that it doesn't even have to be you who tells your parents. It could be a professional who can "handle" their initial reactions and then the professional can educate them that you are INDEED NOT faking it. Over the years, I used to hide everything from my parents until I was about 21 and I started telling them about things I was going through and I couldn't believe the response. They were so supportive and understanding and grateful I let them in.
In regards to your father being a big figure in the community, a lot of people who are public figures have come out in public and announced they suffer from depression. it's not a fault of yours, nor is it a character flaw. And you'd be surprised at how many suffer from this in hiding. It's a disorder, like diabetes. Would you feel ashamed, scared or hide that from your parents or a doctor if you had diabetes? Depression is simply (or not so!) an "illness" that sometimes needs medication and/or talk therapy. In this day and age, it's becoming far more accepted, talked about, and acknowledged (depression) that you may be surprised at the support you receive. To be fair, maybe you should let your parents have the chance to give you a response to this. they might be so grateful that you came to them. Who knows, they may be sensing something, but don't know how to approach you. I understand that your fear is great. But even if you did tell them and they responded by telling you that your just trying to get attention then you know that they aren't the ones to get support from, at least at first.
But like the others on this board, I suggest you try a hotline or a school counselor. Everything would be confidential - no one would have to know except you and that professional. I understand your fear and you are in a lonely and frightening place that could get better if you finally are able to reach out for help.
I know you have to do it in your own time. In the meantime, this board is one support for you.
a big hug to you,
Katia
Posted by sfmom on November 9, 2003, at 19:54:15
In reply to Re: Im i deppressed » geri122, posted by katia on November 9, 2003, at 16:34:38
Hi Geri,
I am 29 years old and was still afraid to tell my parents. But when I told my dad he shocked me by telling me that he had been suffering from the same thing for years and was currently on medication for depression and anxiety! I'm not suggesting that your dad will say the same thing, I'm only suggesting that he may suprise you. I agree with Katia that printing out your posts from here would be a great way to begin to talk about your illness. Did you call the hotline number that Lynne got for you? It's a great place to start and it's totally confidential. Keep us informed, we truly care about you. Love, Lyssa
Posted by geri122 on November 10, 2003, at 16:36:30
In reply to Re: Im i deppressed, posted by sfmom on November 9, 2003, at 19:54:15
I know.. and i have come close to saying things, but i always get scared... i know that i must say something.. but i obly have one year left a highschool, then i could do it without them knowing
Posted by geri122 on November 10, 2003, at 16:43:53
In reply to Re: Im i deppressed » geri122, posted by katia on November 9, 2003, at 16:34:38
you guys don't know what it means to be able to talk to someone who is/was dealing with it. ive never been able to use words.. afraid of what they will say or think. for once in my life.. i feel comfort. The sad thing is.. ive never met you, i should feel the comfort with my family and friends.
Posted by katia on November 10, 2003, at 17:50:27
In reply to Re: Im i deppressed, posted by geri122 on November 10, 2003, at 16:43:53
> you guys don't know what it means to be able to talk to someone who is/was dealing with it. ive never been able to use words.. afraid of what they will say or think. for once in my life.. i feel comfort. The sad thing is.. ive never met you, i should feel the comfort with my family and friends.
Hi Geri,
I do know what it means, very well. I was just talking about this w/ my therapist. There are friends that I've had for years who don't get what it means to be depressed. And that hurts. I know they don't mean to be cruel. But my suffering feels unvalidated and I feel unseen. It's terribly lonely. Unfortunately, sometimes people who are close to you don't understand it, because foruntately for them they've never experienced it. I hear all the time - "everyone has ups and downs". But they have no idea what they are talking about. Depression is far more encompassing than JUST sadness. I also feel it's sad that people on this board who I've never met, understand me better than people who I know face to face.
I'm searching for a place in my life where I can still have these friends/people in my life, but not reach a certain depth that I wish for. I can only get that from certain people and it's something I have to accept.
I'm glad you're here and you're posting. And I think you can use words - very well. I even told my therapist what you said - "For every smile I fake, I cry a thousand tears". Her response was "wow" very poignant. I told her with that sentence you've describe so much of my life.
take care,
Katia
Posted by Angielala on November 11, 2003, at 15:04:35
In reply to Im i deppressed, posted by geri122 on November 2, 2003, at 17:17:56
> I am only 16, but i think about the word deppressed a lot. I mean.. i know that i am a teenage girl and i will always face problems, but i think i only have one problem.. LIFE! I am always unhappy, regardless of the situation, everyone could be having a great time, but i can't no matter how hard i try. I have a hard time concentrating in school and i find my grades dropping, i use to be and A student and know i have a hard time reaching it. The littles thing will spring me off. I find myself crying myself to sleep and not wanting to get up the next morning. I feel alone and trapped, like nothing and noone can help me. I don't want to admitt that something is wrong with me, i want to be normal, feel normal, be happy, but i can't. For every smile i fake, i cry a thousands tears. Sometimes i feel like i live a lie, like nothing good will come out. Do i have a problem, is this normal. what do i do?
I'm 24. When I was 15 I told my mother "Mom, I think about killing myself." She said, "That's silly, why would you think about that?"
Thinking back on that, I could get mad at my mother, but then again, why would she be concerned- it DID sound like a silly thing to say. Instead, I am grateful that I hung in there as long as I did.
I'm getting married next summer and the hardest part of getting ready for "The Happiest Day of My Life" is to fully get over the fact that my husband will NEVER understand my Bipolar. He will never understand that depression doesn't mean crying a lot or looking sad or thinking about sad stuff. It's SO hard. I understand why you feel angry about only have boards like these to find people who do understand. I still get a little angry. Then I have to realize that we are just made differently and we need to comfort each other, even if that means posting on the Internet.
I remember being told by three different doctors, family, friends... "It's your age, every teen feels depressed- it's your hormones". I swear I would have hurt someone if they had said that again... it was so annoying. It seemed like all these other teenagers were having a great-old-time... and there I was, just like you, not wanting to get out of bed, trying to force a good time on myself, trying to fit in with the happy people, trying to maintain the A's that were so easy to get before.... how could I be the same as them? It wasn't until I was 18 that *I* went to a new doctor and explained that Bipolar ran in my family and I needed treatment because it's only getting worse. YOU are the only person who knows how you feel. So next time you are told that you are fine, explain to them you know you are not.
Everyone has a different story, different problems and a different way to get help. But the fact that you posted here means that you are ready to get yourself back.
It's a fight, we have to fight to be "normal". But that doesn't mean being a sad clown. Don't fake one more smile- you deserve to smile and not shed one more tear. You came to the right place :)
Posted by katia on November 11, 2003, at 16:33:20
In reply to Re: Im i deppressed, posted by Angielala on November 11, 2003, at 15:04:35
Hi Angielala,
That's a shame that your fiancee doesn't understand. There's a good book out there "When Someone You Love Is Depressed".
it only addressed depression, but it'll probably do. I suggest buying and having your fiancee read it.
It is sooooo frustrating when people you love/who love you don't GET it. It's so invalidating. It adds salt to the wound - insult to injury.
katia
Posted by katia on November 11, 2003, at 16:35:51
In reply to Re: Im i deppressed, posted by katia on November 11, 2003, at 16:33:20
Hi again,
I realized that the link led you to a different book. but if you click on it, it'll take you to Amazon and just underneath that book in (other books people bought who bought this one...).
It's "When Someone YOU love is depressed"
Posted by geri122 on November 12, 2003, at 15:28:37
In reply to Re: Im i deppressed » geri122, posted by katia on November 10, 2003, at 17:50:27
i wanna be able to tell people that i have know for a long what i tell you guys. Its like you understand, you can relate. thats what i need, someone who won't judge me, but help me. I need the love and understanding, but can;t seem to find it, i can't seem to let it in. Im afraid, scares, and embarrared
Posted by katia on November 12, 2003, at 18:02:36
In reply to Re: Im i deppressed, posted by geri122 on November 12, 2003, at 15:28:37
> i wanna be able to tell people that i have know for a long what i tell you guys. Its like you understand, you can relate. thats what i need, someone who won't judge me, but help me. I need the love and understanding, but can;t seem to find it, i can't seem to let it in. Im afraid, scares, and embarrared
Well this is a good start for you. i"m sure you will open up to others around you in your own time. take good care. Katia
Posted by Flipsactown on November 12, 2003, at 23:35:17
In reply to Im i deppressed, posted by geri122 on November 2, 2003, at 17:17:56
When my therapist suggested I start taking prozac along with my monthly talk therapy, I immediately thought, "I'm not crazy. I'm normal like everybody else." To make a long story short, I took the prozac, and in 2.5 weeks, I felt like the dark cloud over my head finally disappeared! I was feeling like my old self. When I was depressed, I thought of myself as a failure with nothing to live for. I did not realize that it was depression that was causing me to continually dwell on negative thoughts. Every thought that entered my mind were negative. Prozac and my monthly cognitive therapy saved my life. It allowed me to be the old happy-go-lucky guy. Hang in there and get some therapy soon. Depression is an illness and nothing to be ashamed of. With proper therapy and medication you will be your old "normal" self.
Currently, 12 years later, I am still taking antidepressants and I consider myself as "normal".
> I am only 16, but i think about the word deppressed a lot. I mean.. i know that i am a teenage girl and i will always face problems, but i think i only have one problem.. LIFE! I am always unhappy, regardless of the situation, everyone could be having a great time, but i can't no matter how hard i try. I have a hard time concentrating in school and i find my grades dropping, i use to be and A student and know i have a hard time reaching it. The littles thing will spring me off. I find myself crying myself to sleep and not wanting to get up the next morning. I feel alone and trapped, like nothing and noone can help me. I don't want to admitt that something is wrong with me, i want to be normal, feel normal, be happy, but i can't. For every smile i fake, i cry a thousands tears. Sometimes i feel like i live a lie, like nothing good will come out. Do i have a problem, is this normal. what do i do?
Posted by katia on November 13, 2003, at 0:37:10
In reply to Re: Im i deppressed, posted by Flipsactown on November 12, 2003, at 23:35:17
> When my therapist suggested I start taking prozac along with my monthly talk therapy, I immediately thought, "I'm not crazy. I'm normal like everybody else." To make a long story short, I took the prozac, and in 2.5 weeks, I felt like the dark cloud over my head finally disappeared! I was feeling like my old self. When I was depressed, I thought of myself as a failure with nothing to live for. I did not realize that it was depression that was causing me to continually dwell on negative thoughts. Every thought that entered my mind were negative. Prozac and my monthly cognitive therapy saved my life. It allowed me to be the old happy-go-lucky guy. Hang in there and get some therapy soon. Depression is an illness and nothing to be ashamed of. With proper therapy and medication you will be your old "normal" self.
>
> Currently, 12 years later, I am still taking antidepressants and I consider myself as "normal".
>
Hi Geri,
I can't second what he says enough. get help now while you're still so young and you won't waste so much time and years struggling with this as so many people have, including myself. and it's just not lost years, it's so much more. What's worse? The possible "imagined" embarrassment that MIGHT ensue from opening up to a professional or family or really close friend (I doubt that would happen) OR feeling like this for possibly the rest of your life? I know it's so hard to reach out when you're feeling vulnerable and knocked down. It's ironically the most important time to reach out, but yet the most difficult time to reach out.
katia
Posted by octiigon on November 13, 2003, at 6:18:56
In reply to Re: Im i deppressed » Flipsactown, posted by katia on November 13, 2003, at 0:37:10
I don't know if I'd really consider taking meds right off the bat... especially with your age you never know what it could be messing with. You may feel embarrassed... but there is absolutely nothing wrong with opening and wanting to see a therapist. In my opinion, if everyone saw a therapist everything would be alot better. Not to mention you'll suffer for years and years if you don't seek help.... and eventually feel like your completely at the end of your rope.
The sooner you seek help... the easier it'll be to "fix" the problems. Just try the therapy first.... sometimes that's enough to blow away those nasty dark clouds that plague your mind.
Posted by LynneDa on November 13, 2003, at 9:10:54
In reply to Re: Im i deppressed, posted by geri122 on November 12, 2003, at 15:28:37
Hi! Glad you're still posting. This is going to be less supportive and more instructive than most posts. Hope that's okay. Let me see if I can summarize some things for you, maybe it will help.
It sounds like you have 3 basic issues (that are all VERY normal feelings by the way!!):
1. You're unhappy & Depressed - beyond normal sadness.
2. You're scared to talk to anyone about it due to fear of embarrassment and rejection.
3. You're sad that you don't have the love & understanding about your condition that you deserve and that you're getting from total strangers on this board!You know what you're options are:
1. Call the hotline number and see what free, confidential resources there are in your area
2. Start the difficult process of talking to those around you and risk embarrassment in order to see how they'll react
3. Call your own doctor and see what he/she can do for you, confidentially.Your immediate problem right now seems to be getting over the "stigma" of feeling this way and needing help. If you reach out to others near you, it will be hard at first, I can't deny that fact! It may take time for them to come around. In your current frame of mind, I know the energy that may take seems overwhelming. That is why you may need to get strong first in order to have the courage to reach out for the help that will give you long-term peace.
So, keep writing to us, keep talking to the one friend you've confided in. I remember what it's like to be your age and it is hard, no matter where you are mentally! I really think you should send a note, or a copy of your posts, to your school counselor. Unless you are exhibiting signs of substance abuse or are at risk for suicide, or in any other physical danger, they may not have to talk to your parents til you're ready. In your note, ask about confidentiality. They love it when students come to them for help - why do you think they spent all those years in college, because they truly care about kids! :-)
I don't know if this is allowed, but if you want me to call your counselor or doctor and find out about confidentiality, I will. You can send me the information at LDavis@cmsstl.com, if you like. Take care of yourself!
~Lynne
Posted by katia on November 13, 2003, at 13:03:12
In reply to Re: Im i deppressed » octiigon, posted by katia on November 13, 2003, at 13:00:20
> I don't know if I'd really consider taking meds right off the bat... especially with your age you never know what it could be messing with. You may feel embarrassed... but there is absolutely nothing wrong with opening and wanting to see a therapist. In my opinion, if everyone saw a therapist everything would be alot better. Not to mention you'll suffer for years and years if you don't seek help.... and eventually feel like your completely at the end of your rope.
>
> The sooner you seek help... the easier it'll be to "fix" the problems. Just try the therapy first.... sometimes that's enough to blow away those nasty dark clouds that plague your mind.**Hi again,
And again DITTO! Just because you seek out help doesn't necessarily mean the medication is going to be necessary. And it might be. AND you wouldn't haven't to necessarily tell your parents. Sometimes depression can be worked out in "talk therapy". And believe me the eariler you start, the less unhealthy patterns of unconscious concrete you have to chip away at later to start to heal yourself after years of dysfunction and pain. Not to mention the vicious spiralling effect of depression. For me at least, it brought on life crisis which in turn fueled the depression. The life crisis' for me came about simply out of poor judgment due to the depression (and manic side of bipolar); which in turn spiralled to life crisis and then depression. I lived in an unaware vicious cycle for well over a decade. If you bring some self-awareness and healing into your life now - you are one step ahead of the game. And you'll live a more fulfilling life by knowing yourself better and how you work in the world, especially in relation to family dynamics.
anyway, if I don't make sense then it's probably because I started therapy too late! :-) just kidding.
good luck sweetie.
Katia
Posted by geri122 on November 14, 2003, at 16:57:31
In reply to Re: Im i deppressed, posted by Flipsactown on November 12, 2003, at 23:35:17
yeah.. well i have some current up dates on my life. Not really good ones though. Well.. Monday night, a really close friend called. He is one of the people i trust my life. He and his girlfriend are having trouble, and the only way he could think to make it better is to stop talking to all of his girl friends; i am one of them. So he is telling me he can't talk to me and all of this stuff. as i was sitting on the phone with him, i couldn't do much but cry, i didn't understand, he always told me he would be there for me. The thing is, the very next day i was planing on telling im about my situation, it was a very big smack in the face. That made me feel alone again. I got to school and all i could do was cry, i didn't want to be there, and the sadest thing was i saw him there. It was really hard.
Yeah well today i was called down to the principles office... apparently he and several other teachers are worried about me. He asked if everything was ok, and i wanted to tell him, but i knew he would tell my parents, that is something i definatly don't want. I can't hide the fact that im not happy anymore.. and i don't know how much longer i can prentend!
Posted by LynneDa on November 14, 2003, at 17:13:51
In reply to Re: Im i deppressed, posted by geri122 on November 14, 2003, at 16:57:31
I'm sorry to hear about your guy friend's decision. That had to hurt. I am very happy to hear you felt ready to open up to him, though. Obviously he's in pain now and probably isn't the best person to talk to anyway, but maybe in a few days his mood will change.
That is great that your teachers noticed your unhappiness and want to help. PLEASE talk to the principal! PLEASE see them as willing and caring partners for you in getting some help. PLEASE tell him you are not ready to discuss this with your parents, but maybe talking to the school counselor first would help - that you just need someone understanding to vent to, who can help you figure out what's making you so sad. You don't have to make it sound like you are truly depressed to him. Just sad enough that you need the counselor, but don't need your parents involved just yet. Maybe taking a middle of the road approach will help . . . just a thought!
This might sound terrible, but sometimes you have to hit bottom before you can bounce back up. I know from experience. I wouldn't consider meds til I was a raving maniac and becoming pretty dysfunctional at work! Showing such obvious evidence of unhappiness at school means you don't care as much who knows and that, my dear, is actually progress toward being open to help - as odd as that may sound!
Make choices that are good for you in the long run. I know this sounds really parent-ish, but the decisions you make right now about your self-care will make such a difference in the quality of the rest of your life!! You are learning one of the hardest lessons life has to offer at an early age - in the end there is only you to look out for you. Parents and friends are great, but you know yourself best. Hang in there honey, we're all pulling for you!
~ Lynne
Posted by katia on November 14, 2003, at 17:17:19
In reply to Re: Im i deppressed, posted by geri122 on November 14, 2003, at 16:57:31
One, start with the school counselor - not the principal since you don't feel comfortable with him/her.
two, maybe you're parents need to know. it's not like you're doing drugs or something. You're in pain and need help honey.
I'm sorry about your friend. The timing was bad. But sounds like he's going through his own stuff and maybe wouldn't really be able to hear or support you like you need right now anyway. It could be a good thing that you haven't told him because telling someone who doesn't listen or hear you is even worse than keeping it to yourself. you just need to confide in the right people.
I wish you luck.
katia
Posted by octiigon on November 14, 2003, at 18:04:27
In reply to Re: Im i deppressed, posted by LynneDa on November 14, 2003, at 17:13:51
Yes... Unfortunately we have to learn that while people "can" and sometimes do help you, your the only one to stick up for you, ultimately. I also agree with hitting rock bottom first to truly recover- it's better than sitting in transit your whole life.
It took me years of suffering in "limbo" to reach an all time low- consisting of self-mutilation, insomnia, huge mood swings, and the worst panic attacks you can get. I had to basically force myself into the counciling center- and what a mess I was back then.
Just talk to someone! It helps so much more than you realize, instead of bottling up those emotions so they backfire on your self.
I finally started getting better after seeing a councilor and not caring what anyone else thought.
I think it was better that you didn't tell your friend. From the sounds of it he's having issues, and taking it out on every girl.....
You have to stick up for you and get to the point that your so sick of feeling the way you do that it doesn't matter anymore what your parent's or anyone else thinks for that matter- YOU should be the most important thing to YOU.
I know that sounds egotistical... but all in all when you are the most important thing to you- it affects everything around you in a positive way.
Posted by katia on November 15, 2003, at 14:03:13
In reply to Re: Im i deppressed, posted by octiigon on November 14, 2003, at 18:04:27
> Yes... Unfortunately we have to learn that while people "can" and sometimes do help you, your the only one to stick up for you, ultimately. I also agree with hitting rock bottom first to truly recover- it's better than sitting in transit your whole life.
>
> It took me years of suffering in "limbo" to reach an all time low- consisting of self-mutilation, insomnia, huge mood swings, and the worst panic attacks you can get. I had to basically force myself into the counciling center- and what a mess I was back then.
>
> Just talk to someone! It helps so much more than you realize, instead of bottling up those emotions so they backfire on your self.
>
> I finally started getting better after seeing a councilor and not caring what anyone else thought.
>
> I think it was better that you didn't tell your friend. From the sounds of it he's having issues, and taking it out on every girl.....
>
> You have to stick up for you and get to the point that your so sick of feeling the way you do that it doesn't matter anymore what your parent's or anyone else thinks for that matter- YOU should be the most important thing to YOU.
>
> I know that sounds egotistical... but all in all when you are the most important thing to you- it affects everything around you in a positive way.I agree with the rock bottom theory. That's what it took to get me to seek help last year at the age of 32! I'd been suffering since I was in grade school!
It wasn't fun at the time, but I'm glad I hit that all time low and crisis period b/c I was FORCED to address the fact that something was wrong with me and has been for years (that in itself took a LOT!) and to address that I could be helped with medication/treatment. Mind you, I'd been in therapy for years, not really doing TOO much. But it probably did enough to make me aware of myself finally and get help!
Everyone has their own timing. And as wierd as it sounds, people need to suffer long enough, like you said, that they refuse to be like this anymore. and come hell or high water, I don't give a *amn what people think - I AIN'T SUFFERING NO MORE!
let's hope the time comes for you Geri sooner rather than later.
warmly,
katia
Posted by Dr. Bob on November 15, 2003, at 15:09:38
In reply to Re: Im i deppressed, posted by octiigon on November 14, 2003, at 18:04:27
> It took me years of suffering in "limbo" to reach an all time low- consisting of self-mutilation, insomnia, huge mood swings, and the worst panic attacks you can get. I had to basically force myself into the counciling center- and what a mess I was back then.
It's nice to see so much support here, but I'd like to redirect follow-ups regarding counseling to Psychological Babble. Here's a link:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/psycho/20031114/msgs/280039.html
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by katia on November 15, 2003, at 15:24:24
In reply to Redirect: counseling, posted by Dr. Bob on November 15, 2003, at 15:09:38
See you guys over there!
katia
Go forward in thread:
Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.