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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 23 of 23. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by rianny on September 9, 2003, at 23:58:56
Hi, just curious about something.
From many other forums about medicines, I've noticed many ppl's claim that Nardil works best for them. They sounded like it changed their life greatly...in good way.
On the other hand, I haven't seen anyone claming such things with SSRI's, such as Paxil, Celexa and so on.
I've tried two SSRI's before, and will try MAIO (preferably Nardil) in a few weeks. So, I'm just curious that MAIO's usually work great for those who couldn't get benefit from SSRI's.
Posted by cosis on September 10, 2003, at 0:39:41
In reply to MAIO's more effective than SSRI's?, posted by rianny on September 9, 2003, at 23:58:56
> Hi, just curious about something.
>
> From many other forums about medicines, I've noticed many ppl's claim that Nardil works best for them. They sounded like it changed their life greatly...in good way.
>
> On the other hand, I haven't seen anyone claming such things with SSRI's, such as Paxil, Celexa and so on.
>
> I've tried two SSRI's before, and will try MAIO (preferably Nardil) in a few weeks. So, I'm just curious that MAIO's usually work great for those who couldn't get benefit from SSRI's.
>
>
I never tried a SSRi - I went straight to Nardil which has done a great job on my depression and social anxiety. Yes your right the trend seems to be MAOi's doing to most help..
Posted by cubbybear on September 10, 2003, at 1:07:55
In reply to MAIO's more effective than SSRI's?, posted by rianny on September 9, 2003, at 23:58:56
> Hi, just curious about something.
>
> From many other forums about medicines, I've noticed many ppl's claim that Nardil works best for them. They sounded like it changed their life greatly...in good way.
>
> On the other hand, I haven't seen anyone claming such things with SSRI's, such as Paxil, Celexa and so on.
>
> I've tried two SSRI's before, and will try MAIO (preferably Nardil) in a few weeks. So, I'm just curious that MAIO's usually work great for those who couldn't get benefit from SSRI's.ABSOLUTELY! I had had many years of total success with MAOI Parnate. When I was unable to obtain it (overseas), I tried Remeron (which pooped out) and SSRI Zoloft which I didn't like for a number of reasons. So I obtained a new supply of Parnate and got my life back. For me, there is no substitute. I suppose I need the triple action that MAOIs provide--enhancement of serotonin, norepinephrine, and dopamine levels, that SSRIs do not provide. Whatever it is, I'd say to you for sure--go for it! (you and your pdoc will have to decide whether to try Nardil or Parnate; they're both MAOIs but are claimed to be very different from each other and suit different people differently.)
>
>
Posted by Ame Sans Vie on September 10, 2003, at 5:18:27
In reply to MAIO's more effective than SSRI's?, posted by rianny on September 9, 2003, at 23:58:56
One thing you have to keep in mind when reading of people's individual successes on these types of forums is that many of us are treatment-resistant. Within that subpopulation of the depressed/anxious, yes MAOIs do seem to work well for some people. Though I can't say I've seen more than four or five people on this board over the past year who's posted a raving review on Nardil, Parnate, etc. From what I've been reading (not necessarily here, but in studies and the like), SSRIs are adequate for about 70-80% of depressed patients. Just keep in mind that these forums tend to be frequented by those who occupy that other 20-30%. :-)
Posted by djmmm on September 10, 2003, at 8:09:47
In reply to MAIO's more effective than SSRI's?, posted by rianny on September 9, 2003, at 23:58:56
> Hi, just curious about something.
>
> From many other forums about medicines, I've noticed many ppl's claim that Nardil works best for them. They sounded like it changed their life greatly...in good way.
>
> On the other hand, I haven't seen anyone claming such things with SSRI's, such as Paxil, Celexa and so on.
>
> I've tried two SSRI's before, and will try MAIO (preferably Nardil) in a few weeks. So, I'm just curious that MAIO's usually work great for those who couldn't get benefit from SSRI's.
>
>I am one the original Nardil success stories (here on this board). I was on Nardil for 3 years, then Parnate for a bit, and am now medication free. My decision to try Nardil only came after several years of lackluster response to SSRIs, Wellbutrin, Effexor, combo's, benzo's, etc.
My advice to you, is that most people DO respond well to SSRIs, effexor, etc. I think that it's generally harder to gauge the correct dosage (and medication for that matter) when it comes to SSRIs, and as a result, we see a HUGE side-effect profile, apathy, "poop-out" etc...with that said, my experience with nardil was most definitely life changing, as I hope it is for you.
Keep in mind, just like every other antidepressant, the efficacy varies from person to person. Good luck, and keep us posted on your progress.
Posted by Budgie on September 10, 2003, at 11:05:51
In reply to Re: MAIO's more effective than SSRI's?, posted by djmmm on September 10, 2003, at 8:09:47
Hey djmmm (sorry I don't know your name)
I just started Parnate a month ago and it's doing wonders for me, so I'm trying not to think too far into the future and worry so much. But I'm interested in the fact that you used the medications (MAOIs) with success and were able to go off of them. How long did it take before you felt "cured?" And do you feel that it really wiped out the problem, or did it help you get through it until it went away on its own? Or are you still living with depression and just finding simpler ways to deal with it?
Just wondering, as I'm always interested in success stories, and of course *ideally* would love to live eventually without medication...
Thanks,
Budgie
Posted by djmmm on September 10, 2003, at 14:30:18
In reply to Re: MAIO's more effective than SSRI's? » djmmm, posted by Budgie on September 10, 2003, at 11:05:51
> Hey djmmm (sorry I don't know your name)
>
> I just started Parnate a month ago and it's doing wonders for me, so I'm trying not to think too far into the future and worry so much. But I'm interested in the fact that you used the medications (MAOIs) with success and were able to go off of them. How long did it take before you felt "cured?" And do you feel that it really wiped out the problem, or did it help you get through it until it went away on its own? Or are you still living with depression and just finding simpler ways to deal with it?
>
> Just wondering, as I'm always interested in success stories, and of course *ideally* would love to live eventually without medication...
>
> Thanks,
> BudgieHey Budgie...It seemed to only take days for me to feel the effects of nardil..it was a PROFOUND change. It took some time before I considered myself well enough to stop taking medication. Taking Nardil became so routine, that it took a "scare" for me to realize that perhaps I didn't need the medication anylonger...(the scare being the lack of Nardil/production problems/possible discontinuation of production, etc)
After trying to refill my script, and finding out that it was impossible to fill (for what ended up being a lengthy "production problem" of about 4 months) I promptly switched to Parnate (the same day in fact) and was on Parnate for a few months, and quit without any problems.
I still have days when I get depressed, and get anxious, as does everyone, but it isn't the debilitating depression, and social anxiety I suffered with for years, and certainly doesn't require medication
Posted by Bill L on September 10, 2003, at 16:13:54
In reply to MAIO's more effective than SSRI's?, posted by rianny on September 9, 2003, at 23:58:56
I know from reading a lot of posts in lots of different sites that SSRI's work very well for many people. MAOI's might work well also, but I don't hear as much about them. I know that SSRI's are considered to be less problematic and are therefore tried first by docs.
Posted by serenitypeace on September 10, 2003, at 20:10:45
In reply to MAIO's more effective than SSRI's?, posted by rianny on September 9, 2003, at 23:58:56
Hello everybody,
I also failed on various combination of newer AD (effexor, remeron, wellbutrin). I was recently diagnosed with atypical depression and I was thus considering making the switch to Nardil or Parnate (partly due to the multiple encouraging testimonials). Another option would be Manerix (moclobemide). Can anyone report a similar success story with the later medication?
Thanks for your help
Posted by rianny on September 10, 2003, at 20:15:58
In reply to Re: MAIO's more effective than SSRI's?, posted by djmmm on September 10, 2003, at 8:09:47
I just came home after visiting my pdoc.
He said choosing medication is my choice. He kept telling me that I should change my behavior in a way that I do not get affected by OCD or SP. He tells me that every time I go to see him....
Why would I go to see him if I could manage myself with only change in behavior, right?
Anyways, he gave me what I wanted (not yet, exactly). I'll start taking Nardil after two weeks since it's been only a week since I taperred off Celexa.
I'm experiencing withdrawal effects atm. Pdoc said I might have taperred too quickly, but he said they will go away.
Also, he prescribed me Kloropin. He said I could take it if I wanted, but I guess I wouldn't try until these withdrawal symtoms completely go away. I'm planning not to use Kloripin at all.
That's my progress so far =)
Posted by loolot on September 10, 2003, at 21:46:57
In reply to Re: MAIO's more effective than SSRI's?, posted by rianny on September 10, 2003, at 20:15:58
I have also been considering switching to an MOAI for my atypical depression (after the wellbutrin poopout). What are the side effects of Nardil and Parnate? Any sexual side effects or weight gain?
Are they stimulating or sedatating, generally?
Also, does anyone ignore the dietary restrictions? How strict does one have to be with these? What are the odds that something will go wrong?
What is the most stimulating one?
Posted by cubbybear on September 11, 2003, at 1:23:38
In reply to more MAOI questions, posted by loolot on September 10, 2003, at 21:46:57
> I have also been considering switching to an MOAI for my atypical depression (after the wellbutrin poopout). What are the side effects of Nardil and Parnate?
Parnate--hypotension or lightheadedness at the beginning only, then blood pressure returns to normal levels later
Any sexual side effects or weight gain?Have never had negative side sexual side effects with Parnate; felt craving for sweets and carbohydrates, increased appetite and weight gain. (I'm in the minority regarding weight gain on Parnate). Dry mouth is also possible, as well as insomnia.
> Are they stimulating or sedatating, generally?
Parnate is stimulating.
> Also, does anyone ignore the dietary restrictions?From what I've seen on this board, some people have ignored them and claim to have suffered no adverse effects. I personally would never gamble regarding having a hypertensive crisis.
How strict does one have to be with these?
There is some leeway, and it depends a lot on the food involved, as well as your own individual body chemistry. If you want to take chances on the dietary restrictions, it would be a matter of trial and error. I would NOT, however, take any chances regarding contraindicated medications, such as SSRIs, meperidine, dextromethorphan, etc.
What are the odds that something will go wrong?
If you decide to fully ignore the dietary restrictions,I think the odds are good that you'll experience a hypertensive problem. Conversely, if you go by the books as much as possible, you should have no problems. I strongly recommend that you get to a website link that lists all of the "forbidden foods" and even their quantities of tyramine. Some posters here should be able to provide those links for you.
> What is the most stimulating one?
I believe the great majority of people say Parnate is more stimulating than Nardil.
Keep in mind the above have been only *my* experiences. Others may report different side effects or different attitudes about Parnate. My experience covers approx. a 20 year period. That should indicate that, despite the food restrictions and tolerable side effects, I myself consider Parnate a miracle drug and will probably be taking it every day for the rest of my life. Can't go for long without it, and can't stand the other ADs I've tried.
Good luck!
>
Posted by cybercafe on September 11, 2003, at 2:07:40
In reply to Re: MAIO's more effective than SSRI's?, posted by djmmm on September 10, 2003, at 8:09:47
> My advice to you, is that most people DO respond well to SSRIs, effexor, etc. I think that it's generally harder to gauge the correct dosage (and medication for that matter) when it comes to SSRIs, and as a result, we see a HUGE side-effect profile, apathy, "poop-out" etc...with that said, my experience with nardil was most definitely life changing, as I hope it is for you.
hmmmm... so you are saying that if you get apathy from an SSRI you're taking too high a dose?
interesting
Posted by cybercafe on September 11, 2003, at 2:11:23
In reply to Re: MAIO's more effective than SSRI's?, posted by rianny on September 10, 2003, at 20:15:58
> I just came home after visiting my pdoc.
>
> He said choosing medication is my choice. He kept telling me that I should change my behavior in a way that I do not get affected by OCD or SP. He tells me that every time I go to see him....
>
> Why would I go to see him if I could manage myself with only change in behavior, right?
>
> Anyways, he gave me what I wanted (not yet, exactly). I'll start taking Nardil after two weeks since it's been only a week since I taperred off Celexa.
>
> I'm experiencing withdrawal effects atm. Pdoc said I might have taperred too quickly, but he said they will go away.
>
> Also, he prescribed me Kloropin. He said I could take it if I wanted, but I guess I wouldn't try until these withdrawal symtoms completely go away. I'm planning not to use Kloripin at all.
>
> That's my progress so far =)
that's too bad.. you might find that klonopin relieves some of your withdrawal symptoms
Posted by loolot on September 11, 2003, at 12:00:55
In reply to Re: more MAOI questions » loolot, posted by cubbybear on September 11, 2003, at 1:23:38
> Keep in mind the above have been only *my* experiences. Others may report different side effects or different attitudes about Parnate. My experience covers approx. a 20 year period. That should indicate that, despite the food restrictions and tolerable side effects, I myself consider Parnate a miracle drug and will probably be taking it every day for the rest of my life. Can't go for long without it, and can't stand the other ADs I've tried.>>Does parnate work on dopamine/norep generally? Or Seratonin too?
Which others have you tried and what is your official diagnosis (bipolar, atypical depressive, etc)I am interested in parnate and deprenyl so far, did you ever try deprenyl?
Thanks so much!!
>
> Good luck!
> >
>
>
Posted by cubbybear on September 11, 2003, at 22:06:46
In reply to Re: more MAOI questions » loolot, posted by loolot on September 11, 2003, at 12:00:55
,>
> Does parnate work on dopamine/norep generally? Or Seratonin too?Yes, it is effective on all three critical neurotransmitters.
> Which others have you tried and what is your official diagnosis (bipolar, atypical depressive, etc)
I've suffered from major depression w/anxiety. I haven't been "officially" diagnosed in years and so I don't recall what the original dx was--atypical, comorbid, or whatever they want to call it. It seems that I have symptoms that would lean toward atypical depression, but I don't really care what label the "experts" would pin on me, as long as I have an AD that works.
As far as other ADs are concerned, I made the huge mistake (learning the hard way) of trying Remeron, which pooped out; Zoloft (which took too long too kick in, killed my libido/sex performance and didn't do anything for my anxiety. I tried Moclobemide (Aurorix, available outside the U.S.) but it did absolutely nothing and might have actualy made my depression worse.
>
> I am interested in parnate and deprenyl so far, did you ever try deprenyl?Never tried deprenyl.
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
Posted by loolot on September 12, 2003, at 13:55:50
In reply to Re: more MAOI questions » loolot, posted by cubbybear on September 11, 2003, at 22:06:46
> ,>
> > Does parnate work on dopamine/norep generally? Or Seratonin too?
>
> Yes, it is effective on all three critical neurotransmitters.
>I wonder why the seratonin action in the parnate doesnt bother people the way that seratonin action in SSRIs does? This is the thing that makes me wary of Parnate. I just came off effexor which I hated, and it works on all these, so will I have the same reaction to parnate?
Thx!!
Posted by Questionmark on September 13, 2003, at 23:02:07
In reply to Re: more MAOI questions » loolot » cubbybear, posted by loolot on September 12, 2003, at 13:55:50
Parnate definitely seems to have more 'action' on dopamine and norepinephrine than serotonin. So there is not just this massive increase in serotonin levels (& what not) and nothing else basically. So the SSRI apathy & anhedonia (which i understand is a result of diminished dopamine activity) is far less likely to occur with Parnate.
> I wonder why the seratonin action in the parnate doesnt bother people the way that seratonin action in SSRIs does? This is the thing that makes me wary of Parnate. I just came off effexor which I hated, and it works on all these, so will I have the same reaction to parnate?
> Thx!!
Posted by hoffma on May 2, 2016, at 9:47:31
In reply to Re: MAIO's more effective than SSRI's?, posted by cosis on September 10, 2003, at 0:39:41
Can anyone share experience with Parnate and diet (is it really that strict) and all the meds that interact? Example if ever in an emergency, how dangerous is it to be on Parnate?
Posted by babbler20 on May 22, 2016, at 21:52:57
In reply to Re: MAIO's more effective than SSRI's?, posted by hoffma on May 2, 2016, at 9:47:31
> Can anyone share experience with Parnate and diet (is it really that strict) and all the meds that interact? Example if ever in an emergency, how dangerous is it to be on Parnate?
I took Parnate and got off it about 4 years ago. It damaged me in so many ways I don't know where to start. Antidepressants don't even work. See for yourself: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zihdr36WVi4
Posted by SLS on May 23, 2016, at 7:51:25
In reply to Re: MAIO's more effective than SSRI's?, posted by hoffma on May 2, 2016, at 9:47:31
> Can anyone share experience with Parnate and diet (is it really that strict)
No, it is not as strict as the older literature portrays it as being. I'll let others comment on the details.
> and all the meds that interact?
Do NOT Administer:
Meperidine
Dextromethorphan
Tramadol
Propoxyphene
Pethidine
Pancuronium
Epinephrine
Geodon
Other antidepressants
Serotonergic drugs
- Scott
Posted by SLS on May 23, 2016, at 8:09:37
In reply to Re: MAIO's more effective than SSRI's?, posted by hoffma on May 2, 2016, at 9:47:31
> Can anyone share experience with Parnate...
As to the question of comparing MAOIs to SSRIs, I don't think a blanket statement can be made. There are people who do better on serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRI, SNRI, etc.) than MAOIs. Everyone's brain and pathology are different. However, if you have tried 5 or more antidepressants from different classes without an adequate response, and other illnesses can be excluded, I would go for a MAOI. I currently take Parnate 80 mg/day in combination with other drugs to treat bipolar depression.
For example:
Lexapro
Zoloft
Effexor
Wellbutrin
Remeron
Nortriptyline---------------------
My current regime:
Parnate 80 mg/day
Desipramine 300 mg/day
Lamictal 300 mg/day
Lithium 300 mg/day
Abilify 10 mg/day
Prazosin 20 mg/day---------------------
- Scott
Posted by Deahoidar on June 10, 2016, at 13:17:07
In reply to Re: MAIO's more effective than SSRI's?, posted by hoffma on May 2, 2016, at 9:47:31
> Can anyone share experience with Parnate and diet (is it really that strict) and all the meds that interact? Example if ever in an emergency, how dangerous is it to be on Parnate?
Scott (SLS)'expressed it quite well. MAOIs are usually tried only after you have had insufficient response to adequate trials of a number of meds from the other classes. This is because the other classes don't have the dietary and other cautions as MAOIs do, and they usually have lower side effect profiles.
That said, MAOIs were among the first antidepressants discovered and they can be very effective. Unfortunately, the FDA and STARD use dose ranges that are lower than what many patience need to achieve significant response.
In my experience and that of my psychiatrist, individual responses to the different MAOIs may differ. For example, Nardil caused me unacceptable side effects that did not diminish with time. Emsam had more acceptable side effects but did not help with my depression. Parnate had some side effects that diminished quickly and has helped reduce my depression when nothing else did.
Over the years, I've tried over 60 meds and augmentation combinations. This most recent episode was the worst and even DBS did help. Im finally finding some relief with 150mg Parnate, 900mg lithium, 100mg methylphenidate, 90-120mg ketamine, plus thyroxine, Mobic, ambien, sonata, Ativan, Vit. D, magnesium, etc.
MAOIs do require a patient be informed, aware, and responsible. Medication, diet and other "don'ts" are manageable. So is dental work and surgery. Just be sure you notify everyone in advance. And keep telling them, even if seems ridiculous.
This is the end of the thread.
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