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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 25. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Merci on June 2, 2003, at 18:05:48
I just had ECT session #10 today - I'm not sure where things went wrong but I'm no longer feeling better. I woke up from the anesthesia and cried my eyes out - I have one more session on Wednesday, no idea what to expect. I WAS feeling better after the first 7 or 8 sessions - why the change? Has this happened to anyone else? The feelings of destined sadness are back. What now?
Posted by ant-rock on June 3, 2003, at 10:46:57
In reply to ECT blues, posted by Merci on June 2, 2003, at 18:05:48
Hang in there Merci.
What does your Doc have to say about this?
Posted by Merci on June 3, 2003, at 13:37:10
In reply to Re: ECT blues » Merci, posted by ant-rock on June 3, 2003, at 10:46:57
thanks, I'm trying!
I have a meeting with the doctor who is administering the ECT treatments tomorrow - yesterday I was told (by the nurse/program coordinator) that my expectations of myself were too high. I'm not sure if that was supposed to be a helpful comment or not. sigh. we'll see how tomorrow goes.
Merci
Posted by dave1 on June 4, 2003, at 10:04:47
In reply to ECT blues, posted by Merci on June 2, 2003, at 18:05:48
HI,
I had some bilateral treatments awhile ago. I felt better but also had a where bad feeling along with it. I don't know why, I think the shocks where hitting an area where they shouldn't have. If I do it again I would probably try a different electrode placement like high-dose unilateral or bifrontal. Also, after 7-8 or treatments I really got burnt out emotionally going through the stress of the treatments and found it difficult to continue. Maybe you should take a week off and continue.
P.S. I think what the nurse said is B.S. You should have high expectations.
Hope this helps.
Dave
Posted by Merci on June 4, 2003, at 13:40:50
In reply to Re: ECT blues » Merci, posted by dave1 on June 4, 2003, at 10:04:47
I had my 11th and final treatment today and was given a list of therapists in my area, which I had asked for. I was also given an article about positive affirmations. Now, I'm all for the power of positive thinking, but how on EARTH is this packet of statements (examples: "I fully accept myself as I am" - "I look and feel wonderful") going to help me beat depression, a DISEASE? Does anyone else find this outrageous? Just wondering.
Posted by denise528 on June 4, 2003, at 15:46:47
In reply to Re: ECT blues, posted by Merci on June 4, 2003, at 13:40:50
Hi Merci,
Yes I totally agree with you, it might be helpful to do that if you're not really depressed just a bit negative but I've tried that positive affirmation thing (not for long though, I usually give up) and I think telling yourself "I look and feel wonderful" when you feel like crap is a joke, but that's my personal opinion. I know the idea is that if you tell yourself this for long enough you'll edventually believe it, I suppose the question is do you feel the way you feel because of the way you think or do you think the way you do because of the way you feel? I know I've got a lot going for me, I know I've got loads to be grateful for but it doestn't seem to matter sometimes because I don't feel anything much.
How are you feeling now, any better? the last time you wrote you were in the depths of dispair, do you think perhaps the anaesthetic was making you feel like that, what did your Dr think?
Denise
Posted by Merci on June 4, 2003, at 17:21:47
In reply to Re: ECT blues, posted by denise528 on June 4, 2003, at 15:46:47
Hi Denise,
I really don't know how I'm feeling, but thank you for asking. The ECT has had me up and down for the last few weeks, as opposed to just down - that's how I usually feel. I see my Dr. tomorrow - I haven't seen him in over a month (the hospital that he is affiliated with doesn't do ECT) - and I can't even begin to imagine how I'm going to explain how I'm feeling.
I THOUGHT that I was going to meet with a doctor today, but I only met with the nurse, who is also the program coordinator. She suggested that I talk to MY doctor, and see if he recommends more ECT. I do trust him and his opinion, though I think I'll probably balk if he suggests more ECT at this point.
Sigh. I'm so frustrated. Thanks for understanding, Denise. I hope you are well.
Merci
Posted by Merci on June 5, 2003, at 15:22:13
In reply to Re: ECT blues » denise528, posted by Merci on June 4, 2003, at 17:21:47
So, I'm finished with ECT (11 sessions total). Not a success, however, at my discharge, I was given a packet of positive affirmations to say out loud every day. Those ought to help. That was sarcasm, just in case there was any question.
My Dr is going to call on Monday to see if he can get me into some kind of program at Massachusetts General Hospital; apparently they are doing quite a bit of new/experimental work on depression. Has anyone on this board had any experience with either Mass. General or Tufts?
Posted by Geezer on June 5, 2003, at 21:40:35
In reply to Re: ECT blues, posted by Merci on June 4, 2003, at 13:40:50
Hi Merci,
I went through your experience about 6 months ago (11 ECT treatments) and can't say they have had any effect at all with the possible exception of making me more sensitive to psychotropic drugs. Prior to ECT I could take max doses of any AD with no effect and stop them cold turkey with no withdrawal. At present I get some small relief from Lamictal, Prozac, and Klonopin but I am a long way from being well. You don't mention your DX - I am Bipolar II and from what I have read the success rate for people like me taking ECT is only 50%, then there is a high recidivism rate. My mother was in the other 50% - she could have a series of ECT and be perfectly well for 10 years with no relapse and no drugs.
As for the papers they gave you - toss them. The same goes for any kind of talk therapy. Talk therapy for sever depression is like standing in an empty bucket trying to pull yourself up by the handle. This is a biochemical-neurologic disorder, unfortunately, psychiatry is still in the "dark ages".
Hope you feel better soon.
Geezer
Posted by Merci on June 6, 2003, at 8:07:06
In reply to Re: ECT blues » Merci, posted by Geezer on June 5, 2003, at 21:40:35
Hey Geezer,
My dx. is treatment-resistant major depression. I've been on 20+ drugs/drug combos in the last 14 years, with moderate, brief success on certain combos of high dose ADs. Nothing has been too successful lately, though, thus the ECT.
Even though I've been dealing with this illness for more than half of my 31 years, I find that it cycles and that just about every 2.5-3 years I find myself in the grip of a major depression that just won't let go. I had a doctor's appt. yesterday - he was on his way to a conference and will return on Monday. Thank god for this site.
I am lucky to have a circle of friends who care about me and want to see me better - but this is such a hard thing to explain to someone who hasn't experienced it. How do I explain that getting out of bed and taking a shower takes an enormous amount of energy and isn't going to happen every day? How do I explain the fact that I cry at the drop of a hat and can't stop for an hour? I realize that I don't, in fact, owe anyone an explanation - but I can't even explain it to myself.
I'm a long way from being well, too - right now I feel especially unwell. I'm just trying to make it until next week, when my doctor comes back from his conference. I can't even imagine feeling well, but I hope it happens. I hope it happens for you, too.
Merci
Posted by denise528 on June 6, 2003, at 13:51:13
In reply to Re: ECT blues » Geezer, posted by Merci on June 6, 2003, at 8:07:06
Merci,
Do you have highs as well as lows? I mean in the 2.5-3 years that your not in the grip of a major depression, what's your mood like then?
Denise
Posted by Squiggles on June 6, 2003, at 17:00:31
In reply to Re: ECT blues » Geezer, posted by Merci on June 6, 2003, at 8:07:06
Hi Merci,
I am so sorry that this is hard on you.
This is a major major treatment, and i
hope that you will have the resources
and assistance to just rest and stay
in bed until you recover. I found whenever
i was ill and my head was in the wrong
space, a minimum amount of stimulation
in the environment helped me recover.My best wishes, and i hope to see your
posts again with better news.Take care.
Squiggles
Posted by Geezer on June 6, 2003, at 17:15:27
In reply to Re: ECT blues » Geezer, posted by Merci on June 6, 2003, at 8:07:06
Hi Merci,
Let's keep this discussionm going a little while - at least until your pdoc returns, maybe we can think of some things to run by him. Denise528 posted a message below mine that I think is important......"how do you feel during those periods when you are not depressed"? Denise and I might be thinking along the same line (jump in and correct me if I am wrong Denise), is it possible you have one of the several forms of Bipolar Disorder. It is normal to think of Bipolar Disorder if a patient has failed many AD meds and combos but not enough by itself to hang a Bipolar lable on them. The reason this is important is because you can not treat Bipolar Disorder until you have stabilized the mood and that requires a "mood stabilizer" Lithium, Dpeakote, Lamictal (I take this one for its AD effect), Trileptal and there are several others.
Please give us an answer to the question about how you do and what you do when not depressed. We can go from there to the next step. Keep us posted - we are here to help.
Geezer
Posted by Merci on June 6, 2003, at 19:55:32
In reply to Re: ECT blues » Merci, posted by Geezer on June 6, 2003, at 17:15:27
Ok, so I just wrote a nice long post that I think disappeared. Sigh.
Thank you to everyone who has taken the time to read the posts on this thread and respond - even though we're all strangers, it helps so much to know that there are others out there who are going through similar things. I've spent the entire day on the couch, with my cats and this website for comfort.
Last November, I dropped out of my second year of law school - I just couldn't pretend to be ok anymore, and my work wasn't getting done. I have no doubt that I would have failed all my classes if I'd stayed. I wasn't sleeping very much, I was feeling quite depressed and starting to feel suicidal. At that time, I started taking Nardil. I also started taking tamazepam at night, for sleep, which is only slightly helpful.
Prior to the Nardil, and after trying numerous ADs on their own, my Dr. suggested that I might have Bipolar II - my understanding is that someone who is BPII experiences "relative" mania rather than true mania. I can't remember, right now, which ADs were augmented, but they were augmented with Lithium, first, then Lamictal.
My non-depressed self is creative, funny, smart, capable...when I'm not depressed, I see a future that I want to be a part of. When I'm depressed like this, an hour into the future seems nearly unbearable. Since I left school, I've been doing odd-jobs, like housesitting, dogwalking, babysitting...I wanted to think that the ECT was going to work and that right now I'd be looking at my class schedule for Fall. August IS a long time away, but I can't see how I could possibly get it together before then. Or, get it together at all.
I'm so tired of being so sad.
Open to suggestions,
Merci
Posted by Geezer on June 7, 2003, at 11:23:07
In reply to Re: ECT blues, posted by Merci on June 6, 2003, at 19:55:32
Merci,
Sounds like your pdoc has considered the possibilities that come to mind right off. Did you have any response to Lithium or Lamictal? What was the most successful AD you tried? If you are experiencing the atypical type of depression and your pdoc feels confident your depression is unipolar, you might want to try the AD you had the most success with and add a little Provigil. If the depression is Bipolar in form you will need to have mood stabilization. When does your pdoc return from his meeting?
Geezer
Posted by Merci on June 7, 2003, at 12:14:33
In reply to Re: ECT blues » Merci, posted by Geezer on June 7, 2003, at 11:23:07
My pdoc returns on Monday and has promised me a phone call by Wednesday (he's going to try to set up an appointment at Mass. General). I do believe he will get back to me as soon as he can. I'm busy today and tomorrow; midweek I have nothing planned. Those days are going to be tough.
I didn't have any response to the Lithium or to the Lamictal; I don't remember which ADs they augmented. That was the first time that anyone had even suggested bipolarity (is that even a word), and I must say that as I read about it, I could make a lot of the symptoms "fit" my own situation.
I don't know who the person is, who is walking around in this body right now. I want myself and my life back!
Merci
Posted by dave1 on June 8, 2003, at 20:01:55
In reply to Re: ECT blues, posted by Merci on June 7, 2003, at 12:14:33
Sometimes after ECT the meds. that didn't help before help afterwards. That's what I heard. You may want to retry some.
Dave
Posted by denise528 on June 9, 2003, at 15:56:49
In reply to Re: ECT blues » Merci, posted by dave1 on June 8, 2003, at 20:01:55
.
Posted by Merci on June 9, 2003, at 21:02:34
In reply to Re: Merci, are you still around? (nm), posted by denise528 on June 9, 2003, at 15:56:49
Thanks for asking.
I'm waiting for my doctor to call - he's supposed to be getting me an appointment at Mass. General Hospital for what is now I think a 3rd opinion. He said that he'd call me by Wednesday, and I'm sure he will. It just feels like I've been waiting an enternity - to get my life back. This isn't who I am. I'm so tired.
Posted by Squiggles on June 10, 2003, at 6:35:53
In reply to I'm still here, posted by Merci on June 9, 2003, at 21:02:34
Hi Merci,
I've been away but keep an eye on your
posts - i'll keep watching for your
progress;take care
Squiggles
Posted by denise528 on June 10, 2003, at 11:43:41
In reply to I'm still here, posted by Merci on June 9, 2003, at 21:02:34
Merci,
I remember you saying that you get depressed every 2.5 to 3 years, what brought you out of it last time. Are you experiencing any highs now or just lows, also what kind of ECT did you have, do you know?
Denise
Posted by Merci on June 10, 2003, at 12:16:11
In reply to Re: I'm still here, posted by denise528 on June 10, 2003, at 11:43:41
Denise,
I had 3 unilateral and 8 bilateral ECT treatments.
It doesn't feel like there has ever been a time in my life when I haven't been somewhat depressed (I guess dysthymic), but every 3 years or so I experience a deep, deep depression that renders me nearly non-functional. I dropped out of college (I did go back and finish), took a leave of absence from my job when I was working, and most recently have taken a leave of absence from law school.
There has always been an anti-depressant that has brought me out of the deep depression, but its effects never last long. I can usually feel myself slipping, and we try different antidepressants. This time, though, I'm stuck. Nothing is making a dent in this horrid, horrid depression. When I left law school on November 1 of last year, I thought for sure that I'd be ready to go back this August. I know there's still time, but I can't imagine that happening.
I don't want to make it seem like going back to school is the only thing that is important to me, because it certainly isn't. First and foremost I want to feel ok. Going back to school is sort of a tangible way of measuring where I am.
My doctor just called and gave me all the information I need to call Mass. General and make an appointment - hopefully, by some miracle, they can get me in soon. I'm going to call right now.
Merci
Posted by denise528 on June 11, 2003, at 11:39:34
In reply to Re: I'm still here, posted by Merci on June 10, 2003, at 12:16:11
Hi Merci,
I'm really sorry that the treatment hastn't helped. What I find so frustrating about all of this is that they don't really understand how these treatments really work so when it doestn't work they're scratching their heads. If they had some idea of why the treatments weren't working at least that would be a starting point.
What sort of help are you expecting to get at Mass, sorry being from the UK, I don't know what that is. I'd like to be able to advise you but knowing even less than these psychiatrists (which istn't much) I can't. What medication have you tried so far?
One thing I would suggest, something which I use as an emergency pill, is 10mg of Zyprexa that seems to lift me out of the depths of despair when everything else has failed. Have you tried stimulants at all?
Denise
Posted by Merci on June 12, 2003, at 9:24:35
In reply to Re: I'm still here, posted by denise528 on June 11, 2003, at 11:39:34
Denise,
Unfortunately, Zyprexa is one of the last drugs I tried before the ECT; it didn't help. In the 13 years that I've been treated for depression, I've been on 20+ drugs.
Massachusetts General Hospital is a huge research hospital in Boston. At this point I'm not interested in being part of any research group, but I'm hoping to get an appointment with a psychopharmacologist who is affiliated with the hospital. A psychopharmacologist is, by definition, an "expert in choosing and prescribing (psychiatric) medications."
I had such high expectations of the ECT and am absolutely devastated that it didn't work. What if this person can't help me? I'm so scared that I've reached the end - the end of treatment options. Everyone I know, and even those I don't (like on this board) keeps telling me that there is a solution and that I need to believe that. I am trying SO hard to believe that. I've got to stop with the 'what ifs'...
I don't know why today I am so frustrated and so sad - I've had a few moments in the past few days where I've actually felt ok - not good, but ok.
I am so grateful for this board - just knowing that there are others out there who really understand makes such a difference. Thank you Denise, and everyone else who has offered a kind word. I hope that I can do the same for you.
Merci
Posted by Squiggles on June 12, 2003, at 13:15:30
In reply to Re: I'm still here, posted by Merci on June 12, 2003, at 9:24:35
Hi Merci,
It's a good idea to consult a psychopharmacologist
if specific drugs are needed now; but i would
also see a neurologist.Take care
Squiggles
This is the end of the thread.
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