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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 3 to 27 of 30. Go back in thread:
Posted by Caleb462 on May 1, 2003, at 2:38:29
In reply to Re: Help me , with my promising list (SP and Depres) » Tepiaca, posted by ace on May 1, 2003, at 2:22:38
Posted by Carlos on May 1, 2003, at 4:54:47
In reply to Help me , with my promising list (SP and Depres), posted by Tepiaca on May 1, 2003, at 1:43:50
I agree with ace as well. Nardil has been a god send for me. I honestly think a lot of pdocs don't prescribe these because the work so damn well they may never see their patients again.
Posted by ace on May 1, 2003, at 19:48:27
In reply to Re: Help me , with my promising list (SP and Depres) » Tepiaca, posted by Carlos on May 1, 2003, at 4:54:47
1. They have little knowlege on them, due to their psychiatric residencies focusing almost exclusively on newer drug.
2. They stupidly believe them to be REALLY dangerous - even though the first year Parnate was released 7 people died out of 2 million (a figure to that effect - I have exact figure at home it is as crazy as this -- and at this time they hardly knew about the restrictions!)
3. They have been bamboozled into thinking new=better which i believe=bullshit.
4. They are too lazy to get a list of contraindicated foods and meds and do 6monthly lab tests for MAOI safety
5. Most Pdocs are scum. They want the POWER. Well, after years of seeing them 2 out of about 12 were wonderful. The rest I seen were ilbalanced, dishonest, negligent, or rude. And to the end of my experience with them, I told one to watch his behaviour, and that I disagree with his thoughts on SSRIs. This is why he called me an unusual man. What a cock!
I now see a GP, he doesn't ask me stupid ass questions like "what thoughts are there" or give me stupid ass advice- 'put the thoughts in a special corner in your mind- make this the bad corner you need not got to until you a ready" - HA HA!!!! What a friggin' joke. My bad corner is full of all the shitty Pdocs I've seen!
My GP gives the drug I deem best and realises I study psychopharmacology. He has no power over me. He is a lovely man, and has helped me more than any Pdoc.
However, This is all my experience. People have to do what is right for them. I am just sharing a part of myself, cause that is what life is about.But I tell you- ALL OF YOU - you are just as good as anybody else. Don't let them have power over you. Take the reign with your treatment - research, experiement, talk. Do ANYTHING to survive.
I had a friend who recently died, who was told she was 'stupid and childish' by a pdoc for crying in pain. If I ever saw this guy I'd kick is has in right away. Unfortunately, this exemplifies the behaviour of a lot of theses scumbags. She was a extremely vunrable (sp?) young girl, very scared and in pain. He took advantage and threw his anger on me. I bet if a 6 foot 4 guy who was pro-active in his treatment plan wouldn't be called such a thing.
Give me your thoughts on this guys...I really hope I didn't offend anyone, but I have to speak from my heart. If I offended you, speak from YOUR heart and tell me I'm a turkey with crap for brains!
Love to all, brave ones,Ace, (Andrew)
Posted by McPac on May 1, 2003, at 20:18:39
In reply to Thoughts on MAOIs and stupid Pdocs..., posted by ace on May 1, 2003, at 19:48:27
Dear God! I AGREE 100%!! Pdocs are without question the biggest bunch of worthless, clueless morons walking the Earth! Sure, there are a FEW (very few) good ones but most of them I'd love to herd in a room filled with combustible fumes and then toss in a cocktail (as in a Molatav cocktail)! Without question these guys are the biggest bunch of weasels around....I would seriously love to run into a few of these pathetic worms in a dark alley, with nobody anywhere around!
Posted by ace on May 1, 2003, at 21:32:28
In reply to Ace, Re: Thoughts on MAOIs and stupid Pdocs..., posted by McPac on May 1, 2003, at 20:18:39
Funnily enough, 15 mins ago I completed my chemistry qiuz.
While we are on the subjuct of chemistry and psychiatrists (ie 90% scum 'doctors')I came up with a new chemical equation...
As we know, when a substance reacts with oxygen and releases lots of energy in the form of light and heat, such a reaction is a combustion reaction.
Precipitation (ie the yielding of a solid substance which combines 2 reactants that are insoluble in water solvent) reactions are not right for shrinks - they are not solid, but weak asses and completely soluble (ie they lose their 'solid form' in water).
But back to combustion reactions....when a shrink reacts with oxygen, the energy released is not in the form of heat and light, rather the enrgy comes out as a newly discovered (by me, Copyright 2003) form of energy - psychiatrist energy. Wherever it goes this energy destroys all in it's path. It breaks the molecular bonds in the body like I can break a toothpick! Don't dare go near!. Really noxious stuff! Must have something to do with their noxious characters!!!
The equation can be represented as...
Psychiatrist + 5 moles Oxygen gas = STAY THE HELL AWAY FROM ME, I'M POISON!
How did you like that guys?!
I'm really going to cop crap from people who like Pdocs!!!!!BTW, Dr. Bob is cool. He has the integrity to let people put across views which are no doubt antithetical to his views.
ACE!
Posted by Caleb462 on May 1, 2003, at 22:57:15
In reply to Spot on McPac - check out this formula!!!!, posted by ace on May 1, 2003, at 21:32:28
Just for the record, I agree with you. I've only been to two different psychiatrists, but both of them are asses. Well, the one I go to now... he's a nice fellow, but is a benzophobe, unfortunately. My previous one was super ass... Know what his reccomendation to me was the last time I saw him - "Go up to 450 mg a day of Effexor and then we might have to add some Luvox after that" - Ha! Talk about side effects! Sorry but I'd rather not be a constipated, sweating emotionless zombie. So I ignored his advice.
Posted by Caleb462 on May 1, 2003, at 23:00:29
In reply to Spot on McPac - check out this formula!!!!, posted by ace on May 1, 2003, at 21:32:28
I asked this question a week or so ago on the board, but only got 1 or 2 replies. Well, actually, I asked about trycyclics. Now... I wanna about MAOIs. Do they blunt emotions? The "emotion-flattening" effect of SSRIs seems to be the anti-depressant effect itself, so does this happen with trycyclics and MAOIs too? Thanks.
I'm considering asking my doc to put me on Nardil or Parnate - for my godawful combo of OCD/GAD/SP/ADD/Depression. I don't know his stance on MAOIs though, so we'll see. Thanks.
Posted by Carlos on May 2, 2003, at 0:16:35
In reply to Oh and Ace... a question, posted by Caleb462 on May 1, 2003, at 23:00:29
> I asked this question a week or so ago on the board, but only got 1 or 2 replies. Well, actually, I asked about trycyclics. Now... I wanna about MAOIs. Do they blunt emotions? The "emotion-flattening" effect of SSRIs seems to be the anti-depressant effect itself, so does this happen with trycyclics and MAOIs too? Thanks.
>
> I'm considering asking my doc to put me on Nardil or Parnate - for my godawful combo of OCD/GAD/SP/ADD/Depression. I don't know his stance on MAOIs though, so we'll see. Thanks.First off I have to say everyone is slightly different and have all different types of reactions to drugs. But just to answer your question - Since I've been on Nardil (after many SSRIs) I can say I have my full range of emotions. Unlike when I was on SSRI's I could neither feel completely happy or completely sad. Sorry my answer is so short, I'm kind of in a rush but just had to buzz in! Take care and best wishes!
-Carlos
Posted by ace on May 2, 2003, at 0:32:46
In reply to Oh and Ace... a question, posted by Caleb462 on May 1, 2003, at 23:00:29
> I asked this question a week or so ago on the board, but only got 1 or 2 replies. Well, actually, I asked about trycyclics. Now... I wanna about MAOIs. Do they blunt emotions? The "emotion-flattening" effect of SSRIs seems to be the anti-depressant effect itself, so does this happen with trycyclics and MAOIs too? Thanks.
Oh, no, not at all. In my experience the opposite. They bring colour joy and vivacity to life - I felt like a friggin' flower on Nardil. One big human flower! Smiling, motivated, feeling happy for others and myself.
I have very little respect for the SSRIs. In terms of tricyclics, in a few eeks I will have a much better answer. But from the extremely large amount of aectodal reports I've read, they once again colour, but do not blunt, life. So many times I've read of people who got zilxh from the SSRI cash cows but were amazingly happy on the older meds.
>
> I'm considering asking my doc to put me on Nardil or Parnate - for my godawful combo of OCD/GAD/SP/ADD/Depression. I don't know his stance on MAOIs though, so we'll see. Thanks.OK, glad you gave me the diagnosis. Here is migh suggestion.
1. Nardil 90mg
if not 90% relief
2. Nardil + Klonopin (Klonopin has great anti-OCD anti-anxiety properties)
of not 90% relief
3. Nardil + Zyprexa.
If you are a little distateful about antiposychotic treatments, you can also try these (more experimental) drugs with Nardil...1. Clonidine
2. Pindolol
3. Bromocritine
4. Carbamazepine (contraindicated but usually safe)I would honestly try Nardil 1st, then with the augmentors, then Parnate.
Oh, I forgot, you can bring Nardil up to 105mg safely.
All the very best...Ace.
If you have any prior sleep probs to the Nardil, add Elavil low dose BEFORE Nardil. Cause Nardil MIGHT cause insomnia.
Posted by Caleb462 on May 2, 2003, at 2:27:52
In reply to Re: Oh and Ace... a question » Caleb462, posted by ace on May 2, 2003, at 0:32:46
> > I asked this question a week or so ago on the board, but only got 1 or 2 replies. Well, actually, I asked about trycyclics. Now... I wanna about MAOIs. Do they blunt emotions? The "emotion-flattening" effect of SSRIs seems to be the anti-depressant effect itself, so does this happen with trycyclics and MAOIs too? Thanks.
>
> Oh, no, not at all. In my experience the opposite. They bring colour joy and vivacity to life - I felt like a friggin' flower on Nardil. One big human flower! Smiling, motivated, feeling happy for others and myself.
>
> I have very little respect for the SSRIs. In terms of tricyclics, in a few eeks I will have a much better answer. But from the extremely large amount of aectodal reports I've read, they once again colour, but do not blunt, life. So many times I've read of people who got zilxh from the SSRI cash cows but were amazingly happy on the older meds.
>
>
> >
> > I'm considering asking my doc to put me on Nardil or Parnate - for my godawful combo of OCD/GAD/SP/ADD/Depression. I don't know his stance on MAOIs though, so we'll see. Thanks.
>
> OK, glad you gave me the diagnosis. Here is migh suggestion.
>
> 1. Nardil 90mg
>
> if not 90% relief
>
> 2. Nardil + Klonopin (Klonopin has great anti-OCD anti-anxiety properties)
>
> of not 90% relief
>
> 3. Nardil + Zyprexa.
>
>
> If you are a little distateful about antiposychotic treatments, you can also try these (more experimental) drugs with Nardil...
>
> 1. Clonidine
> 2. Pindolol
> 3. Bromocritine
> 4. Carbamazepine (contraindicated but usually safe)
>
> I would honestly try Nardil 1st, then with the augmentors, then Parnate.
>
> Oh, I forgot, you can bring Nardil up to 105mg safely.
>
>
> All the very best...
>
> Ace.
>
> If you have any prior sleep probs to the Nardil, add Elavil low dose BEFORE Nardil. Cause Nardil MIGHT cause insomnia.
>
>
Thanks a ton for the suggestions ace. What about side effects though? Did you have any bad reactions to Nardil? Any weight gain (I've gained about 30-40 pounds in the last year, I need to lose weight and I can't have a med preventing me from doing that)? Sexual difficulties? Anything else? Thanks!
Posted by ace on May 2, 2003, at 3:15:58
In reply to Re: Oh and Ace... a question, posted by Caleb462 on May 2, 2003, at 2:27:52
Side effetcs don't really phase me, but I had many with Nardil.
Honestly, I can't remenber at what stage/dose for all but here were some
1 NO INSOMINIA except the VERY 1st night and one night when I went up to 120mg. 2 days out of 5 days treatment is great!
2. In early therapy, increased sexual desire then later less desire.
3. Constipation which finally cleared up after 4 months.
4. Extreme sedation from first 5 or so days on 90mg.
5.First 2 weeks of treatment - extreme cognitive dysfunction.
6. Inorgasmia which was never cleared up. (But i took Bethenachol 40mg with some success sometimes)
7. Early in therapy, lack of appetite, then later stimulation of appetite, esp for sweets.
8. Weight gain - a bit of a tubby belly but nothing too bad. It's not like I was 'fat' but just had a 'pot belly'.
Don't let these frighten you. To be honest none really bothered me except the inorgasmia. And the weight gain is nothing like for a drug such as Zyprexa.The s/effects are a small price to pay considering the brilliance of Nardil's AD effects.
All the very best. Any larification or further qstns please wright.
Take Care mate,
Ace.
Posted by Dirk on May 2, 2003, at 16:08:01
In reply to Oh and Ace... a question, posted by Caleb462 on May 1, 2003, at 23:00:29
> I'm considering asking my doc to put me on Nardil or Parnate - for my godawful combo of OCD/GAD/SP/ADD/Depression. I don't know his stance on MAOIs though, so we'll see. Thanks.
Wow, I think I have that exact hellish combo! I have been on the following meds to try to deal with it:
Prozac
Zoloft
Paxil
Serzone
Effexor
Wellbutrin
Celexa
Wellbutrin + Celexa
Lexapro
Levoxyl (thyroid)
Ritalin
Concerta
Concerta + Lexapro + Levoxyl. . . and have gotten at best a partial recovery. I just enrolled in a research study on refractory (I think that means recurring/non-respondent) depression at a local hospital. They interviewed me extensively and have decided to put me on Parnate, which I will begin taking next week after Lexapro washes out of my system.
I can't yet speak from first-hand experience, but from all that I have been reading and hearing it sounds like you would do well to try Parnate or another MAOI.
I have been to at least 8-10 psychiatrists over the years and I really do agree that they are pretty much aweful (and worse, they are useless). I would recommend, as I believe someone else on this board already has, that you find someone who has experience and comfort with MAOIs.
Good luck
Posted by charlie12 on May 2, 2003, at 16:30:12
In reply to Help me , with my promising list (SP and Depres), posted by Tepiaca on May 1, 2003, at 1:43:50
Dear Tepiaca,I have recently been nearly as frustrated as you are with the seemingly endless go-round of the "meds game", but REMERON seems to have provided me with some new hope, so I am recommending that you check out my new thread here on Remeron, ok?
DON'T GIVE UP!!!
here is my Remeron thread:
"Period for Remeron's benefits to kick-in?"
Posted by charlie12 on May 2, 2003, at 16:46:22
In reply to Help me , with my promising list (SP and Depres), posted by Tepiaca on May 1, 2003, at 1:43:50
Tepiaca,also check out this other new REMERON thread, and watch for regular updates to it:
"Serzone too weak - Remeron may be *it*"
Posted by McPac on May 2, 2003, at 18:55:03
In reply to Spot on McPac - check out this formula!!!!, posted by ace on May 1, 2003, at 21:32:28
"they are not solid, but weak asses"
ROTFL!!!!!!!
SOOOOO TRUE!!!!
Posted by Tepiaca on May 3, 2003, at 1:45:01
In reply to ace,Re: Spot on McPac - check out this formula!!!!, posted by McPac on May 2, 2003, at 18:55:03
Hi thanks for your suggestions guys
I talked to my doctor today ,He is a good doctor
in my point of view , he is almost 60 years old , and I guess he has a lot of experience with MAOIS but says that he doesnt use them anymore.Anyway I told him that I want to try Nardil and He said that is that what I want then thats what we are gonna do ,lets try Nardil he said. Anyway Im a little curious about the response to effexor with 6mg of klonopin , so I returned to see what happen for a few days and its nothing happen finally I will start Nardil.
Maybe its stupid guys , I dont know , Im very frustrated , my life is a hell , Im just here in this world because of my parents otherwise I had
killed myself without a doubt , but Im still here
for them ,I see how they cry for me , they care a lot and that stops me from doing something stupid . I had 2 suicide attempts in the beggining of my disease in 1997 with no succes , I dont know is that was lucky or destiny I only know that Im still here suffering every day and always thinking that it would had been best IF I were dead in those years.
There is one good thing , Im finishing a carrer of engineering , in one year Im gonna be an engineer (imaging and engineer that cant talk to people,how am I supossed to work??thats another frustrating thing). My dream is to make a Master degree at the MIT at Boston, but its just a stupid dream.
I appreciate your advices
(sorry about the wrong spelling , Im from Mexico)
Thanks for all
Tepiaca
Posted by Tepiaca on May 3, 2003, at 1:49:11
In reply to Re: Help me , with my promising list (SP and Depres) » Tepiaca, posted by charlie12 on May 2, 2003, at 16:46:22
hi charlie
what kind of anxiety do you have????
do you have Social Phobia???
is your anxiety very severe???
mine it is
does Remeron can help with that??
Posted by Caleb462 on May 3, 2003, at 2:19:57
In reply to Thanks ace , caleb for your opinion, posted by Tepiaca on May 3, 2003, at 1:45:01
> Hi thanks for your suggestions guys
> I talked to my doctor today ,He is a good doctor
> in my point of view , he is almost 60 years old , and I guess he has a lot of experience with MAOIS but says that he doesnt use them anymore.Anyway I told him that I want to try Nardil and He said that is that what I want then thats what we are gonna do ,lets try Nardil he said. Anyway Im a little curious about the response to effexor with 6mg of klonopin , so I returned to see what happen for a few days and its nothing happen finally I will start Nardil.
> Maybe its stupid guys ,No way!
I dont know , Im very frustrated , my life is a hell , Im just here in this world because of my parents otherwise I had
> killed myself without a doubt , but Im still here
> for them ,I see how they cry for me , they care a lot and that stops me from doing something stupid . I had 2 suicide attempts in the beggining of my disease in 1997 with no succes , I dont know is that was lucky or destiny I only know that Im still here suffering every day and always thinking that it would had been best IF I were dead in those years.Trust me, I know how you feel - it's been the same way with me for more than a year now..... I hate it, and it seems like I can't escape it, but I'm going to keep trying - there's no other choice.
> There is one good thing , Im finishing a carrer of engineering , in one year Im gonna be an engineer (imaging and engineer that cant talk to people,how am I supossed to work??thats another frustrating thing). My dream is to make a Master degree at the MIT at Boston, but its just a stupid dream.
That's great! And your dream is not stupid at all, no reason to think that! Go for your dreams, and try your hardest not to let depression stand in your way.
Posted by charlie12 on May 3, 2003, at 15:53:21
In reply to Re: Help me , with my promising list (SP and Depres) » charlie12, posted by Tepiaca on May 3, 2003, at 1:49:11
Tepiaca,
To answer your question, my anxiety is of the "OCD" (obsessive-compulsive disorder) kind, which consists of unwanted intrusive thoughts and repetitive checking behaviors.
since I have just started on the Remeron, I cannot speak to its effectiveness yet, but it is supposed to be faster acting than the SSRI's.
the OCD really hit me hard 11 years ago, but all my life, back to my earliest childhood recollections, I have always been a nervous and shy and insecure and self-conscious and anxious person.
11 years ago when my OCD was at its worst, I would have intense fearful anxiety whenever I would be close to sharp objects (called "sharps") like silverware and glass (because it could potentially be broken and thus become a sharp object.)
I have since learned that these are commonly experienced examples of OCD sufferers.
also, 11 years ago when my depresssion was at its worst, I would wake up every morning with a feeling of dread.
so, 11 years ago I started seeing a pdoc and I tried the many different antidepressants that were available back then, but I had no success with them due to my intolerance of the antidepressant medications' side effects.
then, in 1993, Paxil became available, so I tried it, and it really did save my life back then.
the Paxil helped my depression 100%, and also helped my OCD 60%, but the Paxil never completely eliminated my OCD. I have now been told that that was because I was not able to take high enough doses of the Paxil to completely eliminate the OCD. whenever I would try to raise the Paxil doses, I would have too much sedation.
I have been trying to switch off of the Paxil for several years now, and I have now switched to Remeron to cure my depression and my anxiety/OCD.
Tepiaca, the most important thing I can tell you right now is that there are many different medications out there and always more new ones coming out, so you have to keep your hopes up that you will find a good one for you.
For example, a new generation of antidepressant medication is coming out called Cymbalta, but it will not be available until late this year.
My own plan is to hopefully find a med that helps me better than Paxil, at least until Cymbalta comes out.
regards,
Charlie
Posted by Dirk on May 3, 2003, at 17:15:21
In reply to Re: Help me , with my promising list (SP and Depres) » Tepiaca, posted by charlie12 on May 3, 2003, at 15:53:21
All sounds pretty hopeless.
Have you considered suicide?
Posted by charlie12 on May 3, 2003, at 18:38:26
In reply to Re: Help me , with my promising list (SP and Depres), posted by Dirk on May 3, 2003, at 17:15:21
<< All sounds pretty hopeless.
Have you considered suicide? >>
nope.
have you considered not being such a jerk?
I may try to get you locked out of here, but you are not really even worth the effort.
one way or the other, an insect like you will ultimately get what you really deserve.
Posted by Dirk on May 3, 2003, at 19:16:04
In reply to Re: Help me , with my promising list (SP and Depres) » Dirk, posted by charlie12 on May 3, 2003, at 18:38:26
> << All sounds pretty hopeless.
>
> Have you considered suicide? >>
>
> nope.
>
> have you considered not being such a jerk?
>
> I may try to get you locked out of here, but you are not really even worth the effort.
>
> one way or the other, an insect like you will ultimately get what you really deserve.very touchy. just a question
Posted by michael73 on May 4, 2003, at 1:22:39
In reply to Help me , with my promising list (SP and Depres), posted by Tepiaca on May 1, 2003, at 1:43:50
Anafranil can have a profound effect on social avoidance and depression. Michael73
Posted by Dr. Bob on May 4, 2003, at 11:23:05
In reply to Ace..., posted by Caleb462 on May 1, 2003, at 22:57:15
> I've only been to two different psychiatrists, but both of them are ass*s.
I'm sorry if you didn't like them, but please don't use language here that could offend others, thanks.
Bob
Posted by Dr. Bob on May 4, 2003, at 11:34:48
In reply to Re: Help me , with my promising list (SP and Depres) » Dirk, posted by charlie12 on May 3, 2003, at 18:38:26
> have you considered not being such a jerk?
>
> I may try to get you locked out of here, but you are not really even worth the effort.
>
> one way or the other, an insect like you will ultimately get what you really deserve.Please be sensitive to the feelings of others and don't post anything that could lead them to feel accused or put down, thanks.
Bob
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