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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 8 of 8. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Rainbowlight on February 18, 2003, at 2:28:29
I know I kind of fell off the radar screen and never let ya know what happened with the meds (I've had a FOUR week cold, can you believe that? Antibiotics, yuck!) Anyway, breaking up the Zoloft dose really helped alot, no nausea. Or as you said the Elavil could be helping with that. I am off the Restoril and now sleeping on Elavil and 1 mg. Ativan (to be tapered to just Elavil). I am feeling pretty good. Weird, I came across a recent post of yours:
The success of SSRI medications probably has much to do with their ability to facilitate "disengagement" with "authoritative" others (parents,i.e.). When I tried Prozac for the first time in 1992, just a few weeks elapsed before I realized that I didn't really give a shit what my parents thought anymore. I stopped trying to convince them that their thoughts were "wrong" and my thoughts were "right". They just became other people that just happened to have different opinions that happened to be my parents. Just other people, not God.
-------------------------------------Wow! This was EXACTLY what I was trying to describe to you as to why I felt so great on the Remeron/Zoloft combo. I was NUMB for a whole year. Didn't give a sh*t what the other family members said/did. I had actually convinced myself they were nicer and that things were better between us. Now that I am back to REALITY I see they suck as usual. BIG BIG letdown. The past year was a blur, lots of fun, but I have no reference of time. Like I cannot remember which month I went on vacation, when I bought my bird (even what SEASON I bought my bird, etc). I guess it has been like coming down off a high. Except the "numbness" wearing off has been really hard. I kinda liked liking my dysfunctional family, lol! What to do? Is numbness a state we should be looking for? My therapist calls it a "crutch" and thinks it's a good coping tool for bipolars. Seems now thought my meds aren't providing that crutch. Just reality. Eeeesh, what to do???
Posted by Ritch on February 18, 2003, at 9:21:06
In reply to Ritch, posted by Rainbowlight on February 18, 2003, at 2:28:29
> I know I kind of fell off the radar screen and never let ya know what happened with the meds (I've had a FOUR week cold, can you believe that? Antibiotics, yuck!) Anyway, breaking up the Zoloft dose really helped alot, no nausea. Or as you said the Elavil could be helping with that. I am off the Restoril and now sleeping on Elavil and 1 mg. Ativan (to be tapered to just Elavil). I am feeling pretty good. Weird, I came across a recent post of yours:
>
> The success of SSRI medications probably has much to do with their ability to facilitate "disengagement" with "authoritative" others (parents,i.e.). When I tried Prozac for the first time in 1992, just a few weeks elapsed before I realized that I didn't really give a shit what my parents thought anymore. I stopped trying to convince them that their thoughts were "wrong" and my thoughts were "right". They just became other people that just happened to have different opinions that happened to be my parents. Just other people, not God.
> -------------------------------------
>
> Wow! This was EXACTLY what I was trying to describe to you as to why I felt so great on the Remeron/Zoloft combo. I was NUMB for a whole year. Didn't give a sh*t what the other family members said/did. I had actually convinced myself they were nicer and that things were better between us. Now that I am back to REALITY I see they suck as usual. BIG BIG letdown. The past year was a blur, lots of fun, but I have no reference of time. Like I cannot remember which month I went on vacation, when I bought my bird (even what SEASON I bought my bird, etc). I guess it has been like coming down off a high. Except the "numbness" wearing off has been really hard. I kinda liked liking my dysfunctional family, lol! What to do? Is numbness a state we should be looking for? My therapist calls it a "crutch" and thinks it's a good coping tool for bipolars. Seems now thought my meds aren't providing that crutch. Just reality. Eeeesh, what to do???Interesting. You are taking Zoloft (an SSRI), and you are "back" to reality and *not* feeling numb? Obviously it was the Remeron (not an SSRI) that created what you ascribe as a "numb" emotional state. I'm beginning to wonder if the semantics are twisted somehow. Could it be that what people ascribe as numbness (from meds) has to do just as much with a *lack* of rumination? IOW, not so much a *presence* of numbness, but an *absence* of rumination?
Posted by Rainbowlight on February 18, 2003, at 21:09:11
In reply to Re: Ritch » Rainbowlight, posted by Ritch on February 18, 2003, at 9:21:06
Yes, Interesting. Yes, maybe people are seeing that "clean slate (no rumination) mind as numbness. I would just describe it as "quiet!" LOL! I guess mine was more like looking through rose colored glasses at the world. I wonder what the clinical term for that is. Now the rose colored glasses are off, yuck! Perhaps I was manic of some sort?
Posted by Ritch on February 18, 2003, at 23:21:16
In reply to Re: Ritch, posted by Rainbowlight on February 18, 2003, at 21:09:11
> Yes, Interesting. Yes, maybe people are seeing that "clean slate (no rumination) mind as numbness. I would just describe it as "quiet!" LOL! I guess mine was more like looking through rose colored glasses at the world. I wonder what the clinical term for that is. Now the rose colored glasses are off, yuck! Perhaps I was manic of some sort?
FWIW, I don't think any adjective such as "quiet" could be associated with a manic experience in anyway whatsoever :-)
I am trying to figure this "numbness" thing all out. I can understand feeling some emotional numbness with some SSRI meds (esp. the sedative ones like Paxil-Luvox, etc.) in some ways, but OTOH, I tend to become very *unstable* by higher doses of them and became emotionally labile (where I have difficulty controlling extremes of emotional expression and reaction with LOSS of impulse control). It really does seem like a pot experience (feeling of giddy silliness-laughability). It appears to mimic a hallucinogenic type reaction. 5HT-2 agonist activity like LSD??
All I know is that I was on low-dose Neurontin+Adderall once for a few weeks and my cycling stopped (without SSRI, but also *without* any serious mood stabilizer). So, I wonder what that means? The Adderall still made me uptight, but there wasn't any mood shifts, impulse control probs., or depression. Confused as ever.
Posted by Rainbowlight on February 19, 2003, at 0:31:34
In reply to Re: Ritch » Rainbowlight, posted by Ritch on February 18, 2003, at 23:21:16
"Yes, Interesting. Yes, maybe people are seeing that "clean slate (no rumination) mind as numbness. I would just describe it as "quiet!" LOL! I guess mine was more like looking through rose colored glasses at the world. I wonder what the clinical term for that is. Now the rose colored glasses are off, yuck! Perhaps I was manic of some sort?"
p.s. I was describing the ending of rumination in my head as "quiet", wasn't referring to mania being "quiet".
Anways, my mood cycling seems to be well under control but I tend to obsess alot still. Mostly about extended family. Things my Dad says to me, or sister does to me. Just everyday dysfunctional family stuff that just gets under my skin. I don't know why I let it bother me so much. It's just like a broken record that plays round and round in my head. I figure I am 34, this crap shouldn't bother me anymore, but it does. That's why I like the ZOloft/Remeron because I DIDN'T care about this crap. It was like "Oh Well!" This illness just seems to haunt me day after day. Isn't it tiring to try to live with and figure out?
Posted by Ritch on February 19, 2003, at 9:07:18
In reply to Re: Ritch, posted by Rainbowlight on February 19, 2003, at 0:31:34
> "Yes, Interesting. Yes, maybe people are seeing that "clean slate (no rumination) mind as numbness. I would just describe it as "quiet!" LOL! I guess mine was more like looking through rose colored glasses at the world. I wonder what the clinical term for that is. Now the rose colored glasses are off, yuck! Perhaps I was manic of some sort?"
>
> p.s. I was describing the ending of rumination in my head as "quiet", wasn't referring to mania being "quiet".Whoops. OK gotcha!
>
> Anways, my mood cycling seems to be well under control but I tend to obsess alot still. Mostly about extended family. Things my Dad says to me, or sister does to me. Just everyday dysfunctional family stuff that just gets under my skin. I don't know why I let it bother me so much. It's just like a broken record that plays round and round in my head. I figure I am 34, this crap shouldn't bother me anymore, but it does. That's why I like the ZOloft/Remeron because I DIDN'T care about this crap. It was like "Oh Well!" This illness just seems to haunt me day after day. Isn't it tiring to try to live with and figure out?Hmmm. That is a GAD-type "rumination" to me (having to do with the past and future). That's one of my troubles, too. The mental rehearsing of what's *going to be* said (and done) and the replaying of what has been said (and done) *in the past*, that's mostly unnecessary and just wastes your time and makes you feel crumby. An irrational and excessive concern about whether you "got it right" or "will get it right". I think that is what the Remeron knocks down really well (the GAD stuff). Perhaps because it (Remeron) fogs up your head so bad you can't remember anything! Lol! Obviously, if you can't remember what you said and are having trouble thinking about what you are going to say-you aren't going to be obsessing about it much. I was wondering something about this the other day--what if our short term (working) memories *span* an excessive amount of *time*? That it is all an information processing problem between short- term and long-term memory? The meds just short-circuit that process (albeit in a dumb-ass sledgehammer way) and allow you to function?
Posted by Rainbowlight on February 20, 2003, at 1:42:42
In reply to Re: Ritch » Rainbowlight, posted by Ritch on February 19, 2003, at 9:07:18
I totally understand what you are saying. Seems there is no easy answer to this huh? I think you are right, if you get to the point to where you don't care what others think, then you start making bad judgements and choices sometimes, because that level of judgement is gone (or at least altered). Kind of like making a decision after getting high or something. My last year of feeling good and numb was kind of like being on a beer buzz (3 beers! - as he describes ZOloft) and now I am coming down hard, looking around at the aftermath (most of it was good stuff) but kinda scary. Yet fun and adventurous! Nothing illegal or trouble causing or any of that stuff. I'll tell you, anything that can make me "like" my relatives is worth every dollar! LOL! I think I am just looking for something to relieve the endless rumination in my head. I describe it to my husband as though I am riding a rollercoaster and I can't get off. I just keep going round and round. I am so tired from it. SO tired from the endless med changes/doctors/sleep problems/side effects, and on and on. My soul feels sooo old inside, like I have been through so much in such a short life. Everyday I try to get up and pretend I am normal, do things normal people would do, and it never works. I always have to do them in my own way to be able to fit everything into this disorder. It's like two steps forward, one step back. And sometimes one step forward, two steps back. In the words of a U2 song "running to stand still". Sorry for venting. I am down tonight. Meds messing with me a bit, keep wanting to cry but not sure why. SO many things laying heavy on my heart.
Posted by Ritch on February 20, 2003, at 9:38:14
In reply to Re: Ritch, posted by Rainbowlight on February 20, 2003, at 1:42:42
Do you find IF you slept OK, you feel OK the next day? I mean almost as a perfect barometer of your mood state? You've mentioned chronic insomnia troubles. Although I am not feeling depressed really, I am still having this problem of getting to sleep quickly, sleeping solid for about five hours and then waking to in-and-out dreaming for another three and then feeling tired most of the day. I increased my Effexor just a *little* bit over the last few days and it apparently is making it worse. I feel better during the day, but it whacks up my sleep cycles(like all the other SSRI's). Maybe what was good about the Remeron for you was sustained days of restful sleep?
This is the end of the thread.
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