![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 45. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Larry Hoover on October 30, 2002, at 10:33:06
I am a research addict. I can't help myself. <big grin>
The more I read about the beneficial health effects of long-chain omega-3
fatty acids, the more convinced I am that every person should be taking
them. If you have any sort of mental disorder, I cannot emphasize enough,
take fish oil! There is now evidence that DHA, the longer of the two omega-3
in fish oil, actually regulates transcription of DNA in the brain. It not
only acts as a functional component of neuronal membranes, making the
receptors work better, it also helps control the number of receptors, and
how sensitive they are (among other things).People sometimes report that they have problems taking fish oil, due to
stomach upset. There may be a good scientific reason for that......if you're
deficient in essential fatty acids, you do not secrete bile sufficient for
the absorption of fatty acids, and you get stomach upset, gas, and
possibly, diarrhea. The only solution is to start at a low dose, and
gradually work up as tolerance builds. (The same holds true for many
nutrients, by the way. Deficiency of some nutrients is actually caused by
deficiency of those same nutrients, because of malabsorption.) Another
reason for stomach upset is poor quality fish oil. If you break a capsule
open,
it should not smell strongly 'fishy'. In any case, if stomach upset occurs,
try
changing brands. Look for one with tocopherol added (a natural preservative,
vitamin E).I've posted links to Medline articles, from which I've extracted some
quotations. If your browser does not show the whole link as highlighted
text, make sure you paste in the wrapped portion.Some of these articles also have links to full-text versions. If so, there
will be a link right below the title, on the Medline page.http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_ui
ds=12002796&dopt=Abstract"Dietary n-3 FA deficiency influences specific neurotransmitter systems,
particularly the dopamine systems of the frontal cortex."http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_ui
ds=11929197&dopt=Abstract"Phospholipid supplementation induced a significant increase of b-wave
amplitude in both control and deficient groups and restored normal fatty
acid composition in brain regions and retina in deficient mice. DHA-rich
phospholipids may improve learning ability, visual function and reverse
biochemical modifications in old mice fed an n-3 polyunsaturated fatty
acid-deficient diet; they also may improve visual function in old mice fed a
balanced diet."http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_ui
ds=11724460&dopt=Abstract"Comprehensive clinical studies have shown that dietary supplementation with
marine oil or single-cell oil sources of LC-PUFA results in increased blood
levels of DHA and arachidonic acid, as well as an associated improvement in
visual function in formula-fed infants matching that of human breast-fed
infants. The effect is mediated not only by the known effects on membrane
biophysicalproperties, neurotransmitter content, and the corresponding
electrophysiological correlates but also by a modulating gene expression of
the developing retina and brain.....DHA also has significant effects on
photoreceptor membranes and neurotransmitters involved in the signal
transduction process; rhodopsin activation, rod and cone development,
neuronal dendritic connectivity, and functional maturation of the central
nervous system."http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_ui
ds=2139096&dopt=Abstract"The results of serial biopsy samples of the cerebral cortex indicated that
the changes of brain fatty acid composition began as early as 1 week after
fish oil feeding and stabilized at 12 weeks. The DHA content of the
phosphatidylethanolamine of the frontal cortex increased progressively from
3.9 +/- 1.2 to 28.4 +/- 1.7 percent of total fatty acids. The n-6 fatty
acid, 22:5, abnormally high in the cerebral cortex of n-3 deficient monkeys,
decreased reciprocally from 16.2 +/- 3.1 to 1.6 +/- 0.4%. The half-life (t
1/2) of DHA in brain phosphatidylethanolamine was estimated to be 21
days....The biochemical evidence of n-3 fatty acid deficiency was completely
corrected."http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_ui
ds=11590222&dopt=Abstract"These results indicate that the altered learning behavior associated with a
long-term n-3 fatty acid deficiency is reversed by supplementing 22:6n-3
after weaning, when the levels of competing n-6 fatty acids in the diet and
brain lipids are limited."http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_ui
ds=11880617&dopt=Abstract"The altered genes included those controlling synaptic plasticity,
cytosceleton and membrane association, signal transduction, ion channel
formation, energy metabolism, and regulatory proteins. This effect seems to
be independent of the chain length of fatty acids, but the n-3 structure
appears to be important. Because n-3 polyunsaturated fatty acids have been
shown to play an important role in maintaining normal mental functions and
docosahexaenoic acid-containing ethanolamine phosphoglyceride (18:0/22:6)
molecular species accumulated in response to n-3 fatty acid feeding, a
casual relationship between the two events can be surmised."http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_ui
ds=12296294&dopt=Abstract"Feeding fish oil results in partial replacement of arachidonic acid in
inflammatory cell membranes by EPA. This change leads to decreased
production of arachidonic acid-derived mediators. This response alone is a
potentially beneficial anti-inflammatory effect of n-3 PUFA. However, n-3
PUFA have a number of other effects which might occur downstream of altered
eicosanoid production or might be independent of this activity. For example,
animal and human studies have shown that dietary fish oil results in
suppressed production of pro-inflammatory cytokines and can decrease
adhesion molecule expression. These effects occur at the level of altered
gene expression. This action might come about through antagonism of the
effects of arachidonic acid-derived mediators or through more direct actions
on the intracellular signalling pathways which lead to activation of
transcription factors such as nuclear factor kappa B (NFB). Recent studies
have shown that n-3 PUFA can down regulate the activity of the nuclear
transcription factor NFB."http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_ui
ds=11725696&dopt=Abstract"The supplement group received the ingredients in chow inserts at a dosage
that was equivalent to three times the maximum safe daily dosage for fish
oil and the usual daily dosage for garlic (the maximum safe daily dosage
recommended by the United States Food And Drug Administration for a 70-kg
human is a total of 3 g/day intake of EPA and HDA omega-3 fatty acids from
conventional and dietary sources....Acutely and chronically, there were no
differences in external appearance, level of activity, daily food
consumption, blood cell count, kidney function, thyroid function,
prothrombin time (PT), and activated partial prothrombin time (PTT), which
remained within normal ranges in the supplement group. Organ histology
remained unchanged. Although during the chronic toxicity period the
triglyceride and LDL suppression persisted, it was noted that total
cholesterol and HDL levels increased."http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_ui
ds=10617969&dopt=Abstract"In the United States, intake of n-3 fatty acids is approximately 1.6 g/d
( approximately 0.7% of energy), of which 1.4 g is alpha-linolenic acid
(ALA; 18:3) and 0.1-0.2 g is eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA; 20:5) and
docosahexaenoic acid (DHA; 22:6)....Attaining the proposed recommended
combined EPA and DHA intake of 0.65 g/d will require an approximately 4-fold
increase in fish consumption in the United States."http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_ui
ds=11844977&dopt=Abstract"For adults, n-3 long chain polyunsaturated fatty acid supplementation is
implicated in improving a wide range of clinical pathologies involving
cardiac, kidney, and neural tissues. Studies generally agree that whole body
conversion of 18:3n-3 to 22:6n-3 is below 5% in humans, and depends on the
concentration of n-6 fatty acids and long chain polyunsaturated fatty acids
in the diet."http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_ui
ds=11478378&dopt=Abstract"...brain slices from Et-DHA-treated fetuses formed less oxidation products,
as detected by thiobarbituric acid (TBA), compared to controls. Furthermore,
brain-lipid extracts from Et-DHA but not ethyl-oleate treated fetuses,
exhibited hydroxyl radical scavenging activity, as demonstrated by electron
spin-resonance technique. Part of the beneficial effect of Et-DHA
administration on the fetal brain may be attributed to enhanced free-radical
scavenging capability, a phenomenon not directly related to vitamin E or
lipid-soluble antioxidant levels."http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_ui
ds=8093816&dopt=Abstract"In our experiments, feeding animals with oils that have a low
alpha-linolenic content results in all brain cells and organelles and
various organs in reduced amounts of 22:6(n-3), compensated by an increase
in 22:5(n-6). The speed of recuperation from these anomalies is extremely
slow for brain cells, organelles and microvessels, in contrast with other
organs. A decrease in alpha-linolenic series acids in the membranes results
in a 40% reduction in the Na-K-ATPase of nerve terminals and a 20% reduction
in 5'-nucleotidase. Some other enzymatic activities are not affected,
although membrane fluidity is altered. A diet low in ALNA induces
alterations in the electroretinogram which disappear with age: motor
function and activity are little affected but learning behaviour is markedly
altered. The presence of ALNA in the diet confers a greater resistance to
certain neurotoxic agents, i.e. triethyl-lead."http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_ui
ds=2564887&dopt=Abstract"The amounts estimated to prevent deficiencies in the elderly are 800-1100
mg/d of alpha-linolenic acid and 300-400 mg/d of EPA and DHA combined. "http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_ui
ds=9323581&dopt=Abstract"The adequate supply of essential fatty acids (EFA) to the body depends upon
sufficient dietary intake and subsequent efficient intestinal absorption.
Lipid malabsorption is not only a leading cause of EFA deficiency (EFAD),
but also occurs secondarily to EFAD....EFAD in itself affects the deficiency
state by impairment of EFA absorption due to its effects on bile formation
and on chylomicron secretion."http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_ui
ds=11115801&dopt=Abstract"Data from the Rotterdam Study showed that high intakes of the following
nutrients were associated with an increased risk of dementia after
adjustment for confounders: total fat (RR=2.4 (95%CI: 1.1-5.2)), saturated
fat (RR=1.9 (95%CI: 0.9-4.0)), and cholesterol (RR=1.7 (95%CI: 0.9-3.2)). A
high fish consumption, an important source of n-3 PUFAs, reduced the risk of
dementia (RR=0.4 (95%CI: 0.2-0.9)). In the Zutphen Elderly Study a high
linoleic acid intake was associated with cognitive impairment (OR=1.8
(95%CI: 1.0-3.0)). A high fish consumption tended to be inversely associated
with cognitive impairment and decline (RR=0.5, 95%CI: 0.2-1.2)."http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_ui
ds=8192673&dopt=Abstract"Feeding animals with diets high in saturated fat induces insulin
resistance, and replacing saturated fat isocalorically with poly-unsaturated
fat, especially long-chain omega-3 fatty acids, will prevent the development
of insulin resistance in skeletal-muscle tissue....Insulin binding to intact
sarcolemmal vesicles prepared from rats fed on diets high in omega-3 fatty
acids increased 14-fold compared with animals fed on the low-omega-3 diet (P
< 0.0001)."
Posted by Kari on October 30, 2002, at 12:14:15
In reply to more on fish oil, posted by Larry Hoover on October 30, 2002, at 10:33:06
Posted by BrittPark on October 30, 2002, at 20:01:19
In reply to more on fish oil, posted by Larry Hoover on October 30, 2002, at 10:33:06
There is a report on a clinical study of fish-oil in depression in the latest issue of Archives of General Psychiatry. Sorry I don't have the reference. My psychiatrist was impressed enough to suggest fish-oil for me. He's a hardcore psychopharmacologist and generally poo-poos "natural" remedies.
Posted by Larry Hoover on October 30, 2002, at 22:28:33
In reply to Re: more on fish oil, posted by BrittPark on October 30, 2002, at 20:01:19
> There is a report on a clinical study of fish-oil in depression in the latest issue of Archives of General Psychiatry. Sorry I don't have the reference.
Here's the link (paste it all into one line):
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=12365878&dopt=AbstractThe most effective dose was equivalent to 5-6 grams/day of fish oil. Fish oil also has DHA, so there may be other beneficial effects seen with fish oil not seen with pure EPA.
>My psychiatrist was impressed enough to suggest fish-oil for me. He's a hardcore psychopharmacologist and generally poo-poos "natural" remedies.
This is food concentrate. Not conceptually much different than molasses. Food concentrate for the brain.
Lar
Posted by McPac on October 31, 2002, at 21:20:12
In reply to Re: more on fish oil, posted by Larry Hoover on October 30, 2002, at 22:28:33
Larry,
that study seems to say that only 1 gram of fish oil a day is best....is that consistent with other studies? I heard 1-3 grams a day was good.
How much do you take?
Posted by McPac on October 31, 2002, at 21:22:33
In reply to Re: more on fish oil, posted by Larry Hoover on October 30, 2002, at 22:28:33
Just saw your other post saying 5-6 grams/day was best.
Also, is ANY kind of molasses good OR is a specific kind best for nutrition?
Posted by Larry Hoover on October 31, 2002, at 22:15:03
In reply to Lar Re: more on fish oil, posted by McPac on October 31, 2002, at 21:20:12
> Larry,
> that study seems to say that only 1 gram of fish oil a day is best....is that consistent with other studies? I heard 1-3 grams a day was good.
> How much do you take?They were using a purified form of fish oil, based on one of its major constituents, EPA. To get a similar amount of EPA, you need to take 5-6 grams of fish oil.
I'm not "religious" about by supplementation, but I aim for 5-6 grams a day. With fish intake, I probably average around that amount.
Posted by Larry Hoover on October 31, 2002, at 22:17:39
In reply to Lar Re: more on fish oil, posted by McPac on October 31, 2002, at 21:22:33
My mention of molasses was just to draw an analogy. You'd have to chew a whole lot of sugar cane to get the equivalent intake of nutrients from a small amoung of molasses. Similarly, you'd have to eat about 200 grams of fish to get the fish oil found in one capsule. Fish oil is just another kind of food concentrate.
Posted by linkadge on November 1, 2002, at 15:49:30
In reply to Lar Re: more on fish oil, posted by McPac on October 31, 2002, at 21:20:12
Is it best for absorbtion to take
fish oil before or after meals.I want to really get this stuff to my
brain and need to know the best way.Somebody said that cholesterol is necessary
for the absorbtion of EFA's is this true,
In this case is it best not to by cholesterol
free suplements ?What does Stoll say ?
Linkadge
Posted by Larry Hoover on November 1, 2002, at 19:54:44
In reply to Best time to take Fish Oil ??, posted by linkadge on November 1, 2002, at 15:49:30
> Is it best for absorbtion to take
> fish oil before or after meals.With a meal, particularly one that contains other fats. Lipid absorption is an active process, and requires the release of bile into the digestive tract. The higher the fat content of a meal, the more bile is released.
Taking fish oil on an empty stomach is more likely to result in hydrolysis of the triglycerides, and oxidation to produce "fishy" aldehydes. Yuck!
> I want to really get this stuff to my
> brain and need to know the best way.Just eat some frequently. Eat fish. Eat omega-enhanced eggs. Eat flax bread/cereals. The more the merrier.
> Somebody said that cholesterol is necessary
> for the absorbtion of EFA's is this true,
> In this case is it best not to by cholesterol
> free suplements ?Your body will look after the details. You really needn't concern yourself over this issue at all. Only if you are so deprived of fatty acids that your body is unable to secrete bile are you going to have problems. Bile is full of cholesterol.
> What does Stoll say ?
>
> LinkadgeStoll's research showed (and I have personally learned) that fish oil should be taken with meals.
Posted by judy1 on November 2, 2002, at 9:34:20
In reply to Re: Best time to take Fish Oil ??, posted by Larry Hoover on November 1, 2002, at 19:54:44
that I take 6g/day now- whenever I start to feel suicidal ideation with depression, I start to take fish oil (it has helped in the past). I probably should consider staying on it. take care, judy
Posted by linkadge on November 2, 2002, at 11:01:00
In reply to Just wanted to post.., posted by judy1 on November 2, 2002, at 9:34:20
Omega 3 is food for the brain rather than
a medication. The studies that used it
found a slow but consistant decrease in the
sysmptoms of both unipolar and bipolar.
It's kind of like taking a vitamin C tablet
whenever the symptoms of scurvy come on.I've been taking it straight for a year
and am practically symptom free on a daily
basis - I was very suicidal before, but I
just suck the stuff back, and life is a lot
smoother.It is strange because I never felt it working
like the Celexa, just one day I read a journal
that I had writtain a year ago and was absolutely
shocked, I couldn't believe the way I must've
been thinking.Linkadge
Posted by linkadge on November 2, 2002, at 11:01:05
In reply to Just wanted to post.., posted by judy1 on November 2, 2002, at 9:34:20
Omega 3 is food for the brain rather than
a medication. The studies that used it
found a slow but consistant decrease in the
sysmptoms of both unipolar and bipolar.
It's kind of like taking a vitamin C tablet
whenever the symptoms of scurvy come on.I've been taking it straight for a year
and am practically symptom free on a daily
basis - I was very suicidal before, but I
just suck the stuff back, and life is a lot
smoother.It is strange because I never felt it working
like the Celexa, just one day I read a journal
that I had writtain a year ago and was absolutely
shocked, I couldn't believe the way I must've
been thinking.Linkadge
Posted by Larry Hoover on November 2, 2002, at 11:48:26
In reply to Just wanted to post.., posted by judy1 on November 2, 2002, at 9:34:20
> that I take 6g/day now- whenever I start to feel suicidal ideation with depression, I start to take fish oil (it has helped in the past). I probably should consider staying on it. take care, judy
Suicidal ideation is linked to 0mega-3 deficiency. So is decreased melatonin release. Fish oil makes a good augment for any antidepressant.
Int J Clin Pract 2001 Oct;55(8):560-3
Eicosapentaenoic acid in treatment-resistant depression associated with symptom remission, structural brain changes and reduced neuronal phospholipid turnover.
Puri BK, Counsell SJ, Hamilton G, Richardson AJ, Horrobin DF.
MRI Unit, Imperial College School of Medicine, Hammersmith Hospital, London, W12 0HS, UK.
The n-3 essential fatty acid eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA) was added to the conventional antidepressant treatment of a treatment-resistant severely depressed and suicidal male patient with a seven-year history of unremitting depressive symptoms. The niacin skin flush test and cerebral magnetic resonance scanning were carried out at baseline and nine months later. The addition of ethyl-EPA led to a dramatic and sustained clinical improvement in all the symptoms of depression, including a cessation of previously unremitting severe suicidal ideation, within one month. Symptoms of social phobia also improved dramatically. During the nine-month period the volumetric niacin response increased by 30%, the relative concentration of cerebral phosphomonesters increased by 53%, and the ratio of cerebral phosphomonesters to phosphodiesters increased by 79%, indicating reduced neuronal phospholipid turnover. Registered difference images showed that the EPA treatment was accompanied by structural brain changes including, in particular, a reduction in the lateral ventricular volume.
J Lipid Res 2002 Apr;43(4):611-7
Differential effects of n-3 fatty acid deficiency on phospholipid molecular species composition in the rat hippocampus.Murthy M, Hamilton J, Greiner RS, Moriguchi T, Salem N Jr, Kim HY.
Section of Nutritional Neuroscience, Division of Intramural Clinical and Biological Research, National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism, NIH, 12420 Parklawn Drive, Room 114, Rockville, MD 20852, USA.
In this study, we have examined the effects of n-3 fatty acid deficient diets on the phospholipids (PL) molecular species composition in the hippocampus. Female rats were raised for two generations on diets containing linoleic acid (18:2n-6), with or without supplementation of alpha-linolenic acid (18:3n-3) or 18:3n-3 plus docosahexaenoic acid (22:6n-3). At 84 days of age, the hippocampal phospholipids were analyzed by reversed phase HPLC-electrospray ionization mass spectrometry. Depleting n-3 fatty acids from the diet led to a reduction of 22:6n-3 molecular species in phosphatidylcholine (PC), phosphatidylethanolamine (PE), PE-plasmalogens (PLE), and phosphatidylserine (PS) by 70-80%. In general, 22:6n-3 was replaced with 22:5n-6 but the replacement at the molecular species level did not always occur in a reciprocal manner, especially in PC and PLE. In PC, the 16:0,22:6n-3 species was replaced by 16:0,22:5n-6 and 18:0,22:5n-6. In PLE, substantial increases of both 22:5n-6 and 22:4n-6 species compensated for the decreases in 22:6n-3 species in n-3 fatty acid deficient groups. While the total PL content was not affected by n-3 deficiency, the relative distribution of PS decreased by 28% with a concomitant increase in PC.The observed decrease of 22:6n-3 species along with PS reduction may represent key biochemical changes underlying losses in brain-hippocampal function associated with n-3 deficiency.
J Lipid Res 1998 Jul;39(7):1397-403
N-3 fatty acid deficiency in the rat pineal gland: effects on phospholipid molecular species composition and endogenous levels of melatonin and lipoxygenase products.Zhang H, Hamilton JH, Salem N Jr, Kim HY.
Section of Mass Spectrometry, National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism, National Institutes of Health, Rockville, MD 20852, USA.
N-3 essential fatty acid deficiency affects a number of biological and physiological processes. In this study, we investigated the effect of n-3 essential fatty acid status on two key pineal biochemical functions, melatonin production and lipoxygenation, using pineal glands from rats given an n-3-adequate or n-3-deficient diet. The pineal total lipid profile and phospholipid molecular species distribution altered by n-3 deficiency were evaluated in parallel. In pineal glands from n-3-deficient rats, an 87% reduction of 22:6n-3 (docosahexaenoic acid) was observed, and this decrease was accompanied by increases in 22:4n-6 (docosatetraenoic acid, 3-fold), 22:5n-6 (docosapentaenoic acid, 12-fold), and 20:4n-6 (arachidonic acid, 48%). The significant decrease of 22:6n-3 containing species in phosphatidylcholine (PC), phosphatidylethanolamine (PE), and phosphatidylserine (PS) was also evident. These decreases in 22:6n-3 containing PL species were compensated by substantial accumulations of 22:4n-6 or 22:5n-6 and slight increases in 20:4n-6 containing PL species in PC and PE. In PS, however, the accumulation of n-6 species was not adequate to compensate for the loss of 22:6n-3 species. N-3 deficiency significantly reduced non-esterified 20:4n-6 and 22:6n-3 levels in pineals (25% and 65%, respectively). Concomitantly, the endogenous 12-HETE level decreased by 35% in deficient pineals. In contrast, n-3 deficiency led to a more than 60% increase in the daytime pineal melatonin level. In conclusion, n-3 fatty acid deficiency not only has profound effects on pineal lipid profiles but also on pineal biochemical activities. These results suggest that n-3 fatty acids may play a critical role in regulating pineal function.
Am J Psychiatry 2002 Mar;159(3):477-9
Addition of omega-3 fatty acid to maintenance medication treatment for recurrent unipolar depressive disorder.Nemets B, Stahl Z, Belmaker RH.
Ministry of Health Mental Health Center, Faculty of Health Sciences, Ben Gurion University of the Negev, Beer-Sheva, Israel.
OBJECTIVE: Studies have reported that countries with high rates of fish oil consumption have low rates of depressive disorder. The authors studied a specific omega-3 fatty acid, the ethyl ester of eicosapentaenoic acid (E-EPA), as an adjunct to treatment for depressive episodes occurring in patients with recurrent unipolar depressive disorder who were receiving maintenance antidepressant therapy. METHOD: Twenty patients with a current diagnosis of major depressive disorder participated in a 4-week, parallel-group, double-blind addition of either placebo or E-EPA to ongoing antidepressant therapy. Seventeen of the patients were women, and three were men. RESULTS: Highly significant benefits of the addition of the omega-3 fatty acid compared with placebo were found by week 3 of treatment. CONCLUSIONS: It is not possible to distinguish whether E-EPA augments antidepressant action in the manner of lithium or has independent antidepressant properties of its own.
Posted by meow mary on November 2, 2002, at 12:16:13
In reply to Re: Just wanted to post.., posted by linkadge on November 2, 2002, at 11:01:05
Okay, so I'm guessing I can't just walk into Trader Joe's and get their fish oil capsules? Also, I have digestive problems and remember taking one fish oil capsule a long time ago and burping it up all day. Is there a brand you recommend that might assimilate easier? Thanks.
Posted by Larry Hoover on November 2, 2002, at 13:37:51
In reply to Fish Oil, all right, all ready, I'll try it..., posted by meow mary on November 2, 2002, at 12:16:13
> Okay, so I'm guessing I can't just walk into Trader Joe's and get their fish oil capsules?
Walmart's house brand seems OK to me. I don't know what to recommend, as I don't know Trader Joe's.
>Also, I have digestive problems and remember taking one fish oil capsule a long time ago and burping it up all day. Is there a brand you recommend that might assimilate easier? Thanks.
The assimilation issue is related to bile release. If you have gallbladder problems, for example, you may not assimilate fats well. Over time, your tolerance should increase. Try one capsule with your biggest meal of the day, and work up from there.
The biggest issue with fish oil isn't brand, so much as it is rancidity. Fish oil oxidizes readily, so you should see tocopherol (vitamin E)or another anti-oxidant listed as an ingredient.
Posted by judy1 on November 2, 2002, at 14:34:34
In reply to Re: Just wanted to post.., posted by Larry Hoover on November 2, 2002, at 11:48:26
Thanks for posting the abstracts. I actually have a decrease in the size of my hippocampus as shown on an MRI. The neurologist felt it was linked to my PTSD. take care, judy
Posted by Ed O`Flaherty on November 2, 2002, at 16:33:45
In reply to Fish Oil, all right, all ready, I'll try it..., posted by meow mary on November 2, 2002, at 12:16:13
> Okay, so I'm guessing I can't just walk into Trader Joe's and get their fish oil capsules? Also, I have digestive problems and remember taking one fish oil capsule a long time ago and burping it up all day. Is there a brand you recommend that might assimilate easier? Thanks.
Eskimo-3 capsules have the least fishy taste of all the brands I am aware of.It is also alas the most expensive.It is unusual in having a lot of research published about it which suggests it is more beneficial for physical health than the cheap brands.In particular it would suit diabetics while the cheap versions may increase the blood glucose.
Posted by meow mary on November 2, 2002, at 19:59:36
In reply to Re: Fish Oil, all right, all ready, I'll try it..., posted by Ed O`Flaherty on November 2, 2002, at 16:33:45
...in health food stores or do you have to order it somewhere special? Thanks
Posted by Roman on November 2, 2002, at 20:09:25
In reply to Can you get Eskimo 3..., posted by meow mary on November 2, 2002, at 19:59:36
I found it at the local Naturals/Vitamin shop.
Posted by viridis on November 2, 2002, at 20:19:02
In reply to Can you get Eskimo 3..., posted by meow mary on November 2, 2002, at 19:59:36
You can also order it from www.iherb.com -- I've used them many times, and they seem very reliable, plus usually have better prices (sometimes MUCH better) than health food stores.
Posted by meow mary on November 2, 2002, at 22:25:51
In reply to Re: Can you get Eskimo 3... » meow mary, posted by viridis on November 2, 2002, at 20:19:02
Posted by disney4 on November 3, 2002, at 9:17:41
In reply to Re: Fish Oil, all right, all ready, I'll try it..., posted by Ed O`Flaherty on November 2, 2002, at 16:33:45
Hi Ed,
I took an extra 1000mg of my Salmon Oil right before bed, and I know it helped, because I woke up about 2AM with that same feeling I get when I start a new AD, somewhat energized and buzzed, but it was so much milder!!!!!! I think I may stick with the GNC Salmon oil, because it is helping, and I can spread it out during the day. My only concern is the blood glucose level, and the possibility of contamination. I only take 2 though, so I don't think it is affecting my glucose level too much, as I am not a diabetic, so I may stick with it for now. Also the GNC rep told me if I was concerned about the possibility of contaminents in fish oil, than the Salmon is the way to go. I am considering buying the twinlab brand, but I am afraid that would be too high a dose for me at one time. The Eskimo 3 brand is another one I may try, since I like the way they purify the oil, but it seems cost prohibitive for me, when the Salmon Oil is clearly working. I am going to continue to research this.
Posted by Larry Hoover on November 3, 2002, at 12:11:07
In reply to Re: Fish Oil, all right, all ready, I'll try it... » Ed O`Flaherty, posted by disney4 on November 3, 2002, at 9:17:41
> Hi Ed,
>
> My only concern is the blood glucose level, and the possibility of contamination. I only take 2 though, so I don't think it is affecting my glucose level too much, as I am not a diabetic, so I may stick with it for now.There are two different mechanisms by which fish oil might affect glucose regulation. One is an acute effect (immediate) and the other chronic (long-term). Neither one is any concern to someone who is not already insulin-resistant, as both improve the responsiveness of your body to insulin signalling. The DHA in fish oil upregulates the synthesis of insulin receptors in skeletal muscle, acting to prevent insulin resistance and the development of type-2 diabetes, or what is known as Syndrome X. For those already under treatment for glucose regulation problems, adding fish oil to the diet may temporarily affect the dose and timing of medication required, so medical supervision may be necessary. However, that effect diminishes over time.
The issue of contamination may be a red herring, if you'll pardon the horrible play on words. The British government agency MAFF has probably got the premier food-surveillance and analysis program in the world today, and their analyses of commercial fish oils does not show gross contamination, with the exception of some cod liver oils. Liver is where the toxicants accumulate most readily, but you shouldn't use liver oils daily in any case, because they are so full of fat-soluble vitamins. Commercial fish oils are a commodity, just like pork bellies. There probably isn't too much variability between brands, except perhaps those brands which are supposed to have been 'cleaned up', for which you pay a premium. I'm not so sure I'd take their word for it. The British studies don't seem to find much difference (although I may be misinterpreting that issue).
The reason I don't think contamination is too much of an issue arises from my studies of epidemiology. People who eat fish are healthier than those who don't, in a vast number of ways of measuring health. Those fish may or may not have been grossly contaminated, but except for some 'hot spots' of local contamination, there does not seem to be a link between fish consumption and negative outcomes. People are eating the same fish from which the oils originate, and are healthier because of it.
You might want to look at it the choice this way: Is it better to remain in a mental state for which I sought treatment (proven ill health), or take the risk that consuming fish products might make me sick down the line?
>Also the GNC rep told me if I was concerned about the possibility of contaminents in fish oil, than the Salmon is the way to go.Yes, salmon is a good choice, with respect to contaminant levels.
>I am considering buying the twinlab brand, but I am afraid that would be too high a dose for me at one time.
I don't understand the link between brand and dose. You want to take as much fish oil as is necessary to provide about 1 gram/day of EPA.
>The Eskimo 3 brand is another one I may try, since I like the way they purify the oil, but it seems cost prohibitive for me, when the Salmon Oil is clearly working. I am going to continue to research this.
I'm not convinced the extra cost is worth it, but some may decide that controlling as many variables as possible is a contributor to peace of mind.
Posted by disney4 on November 3, 2002, at 19:45:38
In reply to Re: Fish Oil, all right, all ready, I'll try it..., posted by Larry Hoover on November 3, 2002, at 12:11:07
Thanks for all the helpful information! I wanted to clarify what I meant about the TwinLab brand and higher EPA-DHA levels. They make a product called Mega Twin Fish oil, where a 1gm capsule contains 600 mg EPA and 240 mg DHA, where as my GNC Salmon Oil 1 gm capsule contains 180 mg EPA and 120 mg DHA. Although the GNC still costs less in cost comparison, the TwinLab would cut down on oil intake to get the same dosage of active ingrediants, which seems like a plus to me, although I want to up my intake gradually, before I would consider taking that high of a dosage at one sitting. Do you have any sugestions for how high I would want to safely go to help with OCD and bipoalr disorder (at this time I am on the depressed side)? I have read a few reports on myofacial pain at the higher doses.
Thanks again,
Elsie
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