![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 9 to 33 of 33. Go back in thread:
Posted by judy1 on May 15, 2002, at 18:21:32
In reply to What is Borderline Personality Disorder?, posted by Sarahmarie on May 11, 2002, at 18:34:56
I have to agree with some of the other posters here- you really don't want this diagnosis. It's a catch-all one, I've had it along with shizophrenia, etc. I've heard people say BPD stands for bitch-pissed-doc, especially since pdocs usually apply it to young women who all have issues anyway. Honestly, I don't think it exists- mood swings are bipolar, dissociative episodes belong in dissociation disorder and cutting is a lousy coping skill. I would fight this label, like other's said nobody wants to treat you. Good luck- Judy
Posted by judy1 on May 15, 2002, at 18:25:17
In reply to Re: What is chronic emptiness?, posted by mist on May 15, 2002, at 10:59:43
To me it's a symptom of depression- the feeling like you have nothing worthwhile in your life, no true personality- I've used it when I was afraid to be alone, didn't feel 'real', almost a dissociative state. Hope this helps- Judy
Posted by katekite on May 16, 2002, at 10:42:15
In reply to Re: What is chronic emptiness?, posted by mist on May 15, 2002, at 10:59:43
That's hard to answer. Because chronic emptiness is a feature of depression too. And I don't have either BPD or depression right now so can't remember really....
I think just this expansive loneliness and feeling of being on a raft in the middle of an endless ocean, a little cold, not quite enough food, etc. That's what I assume.... but I'm not sure.
kate
Posted by katekite on May 16, 2002, at 10:53:55
In reply to Re: What is Borderline Personality Disorder? » katekite, posted by sid on May 14, 2002, at 20:16:27
So a GP is not the person who can diagnose a personality disorder, any personality disorder! Unless they also happen to have a degree in counseling, a masters or doctorate in psychology, or be a psychiatrist on the side.
No one but someone qualified, ie someone credentialed in counseling, or a psychiatrist, should attempt to diagnose something so tricky.
What I'm wondering is if you are maybe a little argumentative or did something that pissed them off (like not following med instructions etc or calling with a silly question), that you don't have a lot of close relationships, that you got fed up with group therapy. (I would have too under those circumstances). They want to explain it somehow.
Don't get therapy for BPD if it hasn't been correctly diagnosed.
I can't answer if you sound like someone with BPD from your message.... no idea.
It does sound like you're concerned about it though, so maybe see a real psychologist and get evaluated. Then if it turns out you really are, you could ask around and see if this BPD group is well recommended or not.
Your doc sounds a little kooky.
kate
Posted by sid on May 16, 2002, at 11:26:51
In reply to GP telling you this sid?, posted by katekite on May 16, 2002, at 10:53:55
Thanks Kate.
Well, I'm angry with my family a lot. But I have reasons to be (see below). I never talked of group therapy with my doc. I don't like groups in general - referring to the Meyers-Briggs personality types, I'm INTP. I'll bring her some literature on INTPs, she'll get the drift. This is who I am, period.
The clinic she recommended is very good, but they treat people with several previous suicide attempts, problems in social functioning, who went to prison, who self-mutilate, etc. I don't correspond to any of that. I'd feel like a dog on a bowling alley if I went there. I've had depression for 8 years and dysthymia for 21 years. That screws a person up, with or without BPD. I was very angry and agressive during my major depression, but that's over now. I have problems with my family that are not resolved, and they will never be. I've learned to live with that, except at times, it still gets to me. My brother-in-law sexually abuse me most of my life and he refuses to apologize for it - apparently I don't have a sense of humour. It was funny to him. It still is - he does not touch me anymore (I threatened to kill him if he ever did again - it took that much for the moron to get that it was inappropriate), but he still says a lot of stuff. What he'd like me to do and what he'd like to do to me. He also says that if I ever have kids it'll be through artificial insemination - he's too stupid to realize that if I don't have a boyfriend, it's because of him. Well. So my doc thinks I'm BPD because I don't have a boyfriend and I don't want one. Easy to understand: I was disgusted by men at an early age - anybody can understand that much. And no, that does not make me a lesbian; I get that question all the time and I,m so fed up of having to defend my lifestyle, even with my doc, for goodness' sake! It just makes me someone who'd rather live her life independently and never have anyone tell what to do, when to do it or how to do it. Freedom and happiness are what I strive for. I never attempted suicide, I never self-mutilated, I always pay my credit card bills in full at the end of each month, I don't gamble, I have few, but very close, friends, etc. If my doc is not happy with that, that's fine, I don't live to please her. I couldn't care less about her opinion of me.
However, if she continues to bother me with that, I will ask for a referral to see someone else. I don't have to waste my energy defending myself this way. It's funny, because she also treats my sister for depression and she told her she doesn't need meds. My sister literally hits her head on the wall at times because she gets so angry and out of control with daily things, such as washing the dishes - her kids even make jokes about it. And the doc dumps this BPD crap on ME. Also, my sister saw her husband abuse me many times and laughed! But I'm the one who's supposedly screwed up. I speak 5 languages, I'm a University professor, and my sister cannot go to the garage alone to get her car fixed, but I'm the one with BPD. I went away with herm her husband and my Mom last weekend, and she did not leave my side one minute! What are you doing? Where are you going? Can I go with you? I almost told her to let me breathe a bit. I wanted to sip a beer at the hotel bar and work (I brought correction to do with me - final exam time), but I couldn't even do that. She stuck to me like... I don't even know what. But our doc thinks I have BPD. Go figure that one out!
Anyway. I need to just forget about this. I've gone to therapists several years and nobody ever told me I had BPD. I was simply told I'm INTP, and it explains my detachment from reality (daily tasks bore me to death), my interest for abstract concepts (University professor), and my need for solitude on a daily basis to get some energy. I do believe I should see someone else (a pdoc or another GP) because I'm losing confidence in this doc; I don't like to be controlled, not even by a doc. She keeps telling me that I need to change, and frankly, it's none of her business. I don't ask her about her sex life! Why does she bother me? I go to her for a prescription, period. I did the therapy thing, I changed what I wanted to change, the rest I'm fine with.
There - that was a mouthful!!! :-)
- sid
Posted by sid on May 16, 2002, at 11:34:29
In reply to Re: What is chronic emptiness?, posted by mist on May 15, 2002, at 10:59:43
> Since chronic emptiness is a symptom of BPD, I'm wondering what it is (to see if I have it). What does chronic emptiness feel like, or how does it make you behave?
Well, if it doesn't ring a bell, you don't have it! I had chronic emptiness during depression. Certainly not now. It's basically feeling empty, feeling like something is constantly missing, but what? Happiness probably. Health? This feeling of neediness of something you can't even identify.
- sid
Posted by katekite on May 16, 2002, at 12:46:39
In reply to Re: GP telling you this sid? » katekite, posted by sid on May 16, 2002, at 11:26:51
Docs can be very annoying. I've switched several times just because personalities get in the way -- for example one was I missed a couple appointments (ADD) and they started getting on me every time about it, which I didn't need.
You should switch docs. I wouldn't wait for her to continue to bother you about this issue, because you've already lost trust in her. Find someone really intelligent who can say 'I don't know', who quotes statistics and doesn't say 'this will help'. These are the types of docs intelligent people need. Then if you ask them if they think you have a personality disorder and they say yes, you might actually believe them and get evaluated for it (they would suggest evaluation, not a jump to group therapy). This woman will not change.
I understand about the not-lesbian just not into having an annoying hubby. Not myself, but a couple good friends just aren't constructed out of the particular mold that society says we should be. Ironically men get away with this so much easier. At least the ivory tower doesn't care. You do not need to make any explanation for how you feel. Some people were meant to be single.
You do sound like you have a lot of anger. And totally have unresolved issues with your siblings. Ie can't tell them to 'f#^k off' when they deserve it, LOL. Obviously this is just an email impression.... the main thing is if you are happy enough with how things are for that to be good enough forever. Otherwise a therapist would be the person to see (not a dumb touchy feely one, you have to find someone smarter than yourself who will challenge you, if its going to go anywhere... not many around most likely, but possible.) My husband just found one, he's a professor as well. He says each time is like a puzzle or a challenging cross-word, stimulates his brain and he comes away tired but feeling like he has improved his life. Generally I come away from therapy a bit confused why I went, I talked the whole time and feel no different -- I think a lot has to do with the therapist.
So switch GPs!
kate
Posted by sid on May 16, 2002, at 15:00:14
In reply to Re: GP telling you this sid?, posted by katekite on May 16, 2002, at 12:46:39
Hi again, kate.
Actually, I only had one psychotherapist that I considered intelligent enough to be useful. Others were feely-touchy or trying to manipulate me but in a way that was so obvious it was almost funny. And I e-mailed him this morning ! I had gone through a number of psych tests back then, so I e-mailed to ask him about BPD. He said it is unlikely in my case. I am INTP (I remembered that much), and I had symptoms of dysthymia. Which is what I've been telling my doc. I'm bringing a copy of his message. If she continues to bother me, I'll switch.
About my family - yeah, unresolved issues. I wish I had the guts to just tell them off, for good. Divorce them altogether. Except my mother with whom I get along. My brother in law is an SOB and my sister is too dependent on him to even realize it. She's clingy these days and very needy. He's going fishing for the weekend so she just called to go have dinner with me tomorrow night. It's OK, we'll have fun. As long as he's not there, I can survive. For some reason, I keep taking care of everyone - I seem to be a resource in high demand! When I'm not doing well though, I'm alone in the world and I'm told to get over it and get a life. Blablabla. Sorry about the rambling.
You're clearly right about the unresolved issues. The anger? At this point, about the abuse, mostly, and about men. It's like I need to meet a guy who will set things right... and frankly, why would I impose so much pressure on anyone? In the meantime, of course, I only meet jerks, which reinforces my negative impression of them. Some day perhaps I'll have someone in my life, but for now, I have a career to establish, financial problems to address (it was fun to study so long, but at some point I need some stability and to pay my student loans), etc. My doc would like me to go out, meet people, make friends, get a boyfriend, etc. At my age (34), it's not so easy anymore, and when I get home at night, I just want a glass of wine and some peace and quiet. For once I feel good (I've been on meds for 6 months, after 21 yrs of dysthymia), I don't feel like changing everything in my life - I'm barely getting my bearings back.
Well, I'm glad my former therapist responded so fast. I won't think about this BPD stuff anymore! I do have other issues, which I am aware of, but I am in no hurry to deal with. I do believe it's my prerogative.
- sid
Posted by katekite on May 16, 2002, at 20:36:43
In reply to Re: GP telling you this sid? » katekite, posted by sid on May 16, 2002, at 15:00:14
Hey that's good news.
Awesome about feeling better after probably thinking dysthymia was completely you and that life was simply like that.
I could really use a good therapist -- what state is this person in?Sorry this is so far off track from discussion of meds.
kate
Posted by mist on May 16, 2002, at 22:32:14
In reply to Re: What is chronic emptiness? » mist, posted by sid on May 16, 2002, at 11:34:29
judy, katekite, sid,
Thank you for the descriptions of chronic emptiness. I think I might have something like that as part of my depression although I had never used that term to describe it. -mist
Posted by sid on May 17, 2002, at 6:58:51
In reply to Re: GP telling you this sid?, posted by katekite on May 16, 2002, at 20:36:43
He's in DC. Rather intellectual, or at least he was with me. Often people find me too distanced from them, not outgoing enough, etc... Including therapists. He had no problem with that, because he is a bit like that. At the same time, he has some warmth in him that made me feel at ease. At first I thought it would not work - I preferred a woman therapist, and someone closer to my culture (he's Asian). But he turned out to be the most helpful of the therapists I ever went to. Weird how things turn out sometimes.
Posted by Essence on May 17, 2002, at 16:14:46
In reply to Re: GP telling you this sid?, posted by sid on May 17, 2002, at 6:58:51
What does INTP mean?
Posted by IsoM on May 18, 2002, at 1:22:38
In reply to What is INTP? , posted by Essence on May 17, 2002, at 16:14:46
It's all nicely explained at http://www.personalitypage.com/high-level.html
You might get a kick out of checking what you are. INTP refers to one of 16 types of personality according to Myer-Briggs profiles."INTP are logical, original, creative thinkers. Can become very excited about theories and ideas. Exceptionally capable and driven to turn theories into clear understandings. Highly value knowledge, competence and logic. Quiet and reserved, hard to get to know well. Individualistic, having no interest in leading or following others."
Posted by jane d on May 20, 2002, at 11:49:12
In reply to Re: GP telling you this sid? » katekite, posted by sid on May 16, 2002, at 11:26:51
Is there any chance your GP got your sister and you mixed up? Just a thought.
Posted by sid on May 20, 2002, at 17:41:55
In reply to Re: GP telling you this sid? » sid, posted by jane d on May 20, 2002, at 11:49:12
I wish ! But I don't think so. In any case, I know I don't have BPD - former therapist said highly unlikely, I don't find that I fit the profile, etc.
My problem is VERY simple. I'm angry at my brother in law and at men in general for sexually harrassing and abusing me for more than 25 years. I'm angry at my family for not defending me. My doc feels that my anger is a sign of a personality disorder. I think that anger is sometimes completely justified, as is the case here. Since he continues and since nobody is defending me still, I am still angry. He harrassed me just yesterday, in front of my mom, his wife and his daughter ! Nobody said much, although my sister did react, for once. I just left to go shopping with my niece - as opposed to beating the crap out of him. If my doc thinks I'm crazy for that, so be it. As I left, I overheard him tell my sister, who was giving him a hard time about what he'd done, "it's part of her psychological health." Yeah, that's what pedophiles tell their victims. Seeing him lie in my bed, masturbating, yeah, it really helps my health. He started doing things to me when I was 8 years old too. I left yesterday because otherwise I would have become incredibly angry and he's not worth the energy. Dammit I have a PhD and I'm 34... and he still treats me like that. Wow. Anyhow, my sister and I will have a nice talk - nevermore do I want to see this man. I gave him many chances and he ruined it every time.
I have told my mom that I never want to be in the same place as him again. In the future, when they visit, I will go away for the day. I will tell the same to my sister. I don't bother talking to him because I don't consider him a human being.
I don't have BPD, I simply have a brother in law from hell. Unfortunately, there is no med for that yet (I had to talk about meds since this is on PB! :-) ).
- sid
Posted by ZH389 on October 13, 2002, at 1:11:23
In reply to Re: What is chronic emptiness? » mist, posted by judy1 on May 15, 2002, at 18:25:17
I have BPD, been searching all over : books, internet to be able to understand the 'real' meaning of this & also what they meant by being 'dissociative'. A few terms I couldn't figure out.
As for chronic emptyness, well, I read somewhere a line that really did 'make sense' to me. They kind of explain it like the Borderline wakes up everyday wandering if he/she is 'alive'. Is the pure core of 'existence, that is empty! Versus I think depression, is more like a down that goes on & on. BPD are so in 'need' to feel alive that, yeah, we 'hurt' physically ourselves. Even my own passions, activities I 'enjoy' are NOT enough to fill in this whole inside. Nothing is BIG or GOOD enough to fulfill it...There are no 'tomorrows', just moment per moment in an infinite lapse of time where we have no idea where it will lead to. At time, depression kicks in after many attempts to fill ourself and feel worthed and as 'whole', as a human being, but when many attemps failed...suicide thoughts & acts occurs. And those acts are mostly done by a mountain of frustrations rather then a depression. I feel this 'emptyness' like if us, the Borderlines, were more demanding to ourself then the general people, that the things that keep the others going with their life are way not enough for us. I just don't know how to get rid of such emptyness...very hard to live with. I recenlty save the life of a friend, now raising funds for someone who is sick,etc..doing 'grandiose' actions and humane things...and guess what?....I still feel empty and worthless. And what I did good is gone the next minute, like it never existed. Back, trapped in this hole we call 'internal' hell.
Posted by cybercafe on October 13, 2002, at 11:52:56
In reply to Re: Chronic emptiness? Is HELL for a BPD, posted by ZH389 on October 13, 2002, at 1:11:23
i used to think that was a symptom of my depression... but i find it actually responds well to a benzo .... like it's a symptom of anxiety? it's like a kind of rumination... or... uneasy feeling ... like things just aren't going right... like you're missing something.... tends to go away when i take klonazepam ...
oh yeah, and i think having a girlfriend might help too
> I have BPD, been searching all over : books, internet to be able to understand the 'real' meaning of this & also what they meant by being 'dissociative'. A few terms I couldn't figure out.
>
> As for chronic emptyness, well, I read somewhere a line that really did 'make sense' to me. They kind of explain it like the Borderline wakes up everyday wandering if he/she is 'alive'. Is the pure core of 'existence, that is empty! Versus I think depression, is more like a down that goes on & on. BPD are so in 'need' to feel alive that, yeah, we 'hurt' physically ourselves. Even my own passions, activities I 'enjoy' are NOT enough to fill in this whole inside. Nothing is BIG or GOOD enough to fulfill it...There are no 'tomorrows', just moment per moment in an infinite lapse of time where we have no idea where it will lead to. At time, depression kicks in after many attempts to fill ourself and feel worthed and as 'whole', as a human being, but when many attemps failed...suicide thoughts & acts occurs. And those acts are mostly done by a mountain of frustrations rather then a depression. I feel this 'emptyness' like if us, the Borderlines, were more demanding to ourself then the general people, that the things that keep the others going with their life are way not enough for us. I just don't know how to get rid of such emptyness...very hard to live with. I recenlty save the life of a friend, now raising funds for someone who is sick,etc..doing 'grandiose' actions and humane things...and guess what?....I still feel empty and worthless. And what I did good is gone the next minute, like it never existed. Back, trapped in this hole we call 'internal' hell.
Posted by Pfinstegg on October 13, 2002, at 15:28:52
In reply to Re: Chronic emptiness? Is HELL for a BPD, posted by ZH389 on October 13, 2002, at 1:11:23
Dear ZH389,
As one of the older posters on psychobabble, I hope I can give you some helpful perspectives on BPD. I had this diagnosis in my twenties, and I know how terrible those feelings of emptiness and terror are. It sounds like we both tried to deal with it in similiar ways- by doing lots of things for others. But I think the way to overcome it is to find a therapist who can truly give something to you. I made a lot a missteps with therapists, not knowing really what I needed or how to tell if I was going to the right person. I finally did find someone (a psychoanalyst) who knew what to do, and within two years, I felt infinitely better- that was 40 years ago, and I have been able to live a full life, and fulfill many of my dreams and goals. I know I was a bit more anxious and dysthymic than average along the way, but that seemed minor compared to the original BPD symptoms. More recently, I developed a major suicidal depression after several people in my family died within a few months of one another. I'm back in treatment after 40 years, but am making good progress- and don't have any of the original BPD symptoms this time, which makes me realize even more how valuable my early treatment was.
I think the best thing you could do would be to find a psychoanalytically-trained therapist; nowadays, these can be psychologists or social workers, not just doctors. Many of them see patients just once a week- the old idea of daily therapy is just not feasible or necessary any more. But, be very choosy and careful- interview several and be sure you find one familiar with the descriptions I'm going to give you- and, most important, one whom you feel you can connect to on a deep level. The ones who are having the most success with BPD are not trained in the old Freudian way, but rather in new ways, called by such names as self psychology, two-person psychology, attachment theory or relational therapy. I know you can get better, but finding the right therapist is vital for BPD- be a critical, careful shopper until you know you've found the right person!
I hope this has been helpful, and that you will post again in a while to let us know what has happened. Take care...
Pfinstegg (who used to have a diagnosis of BPD, but doesn't now)
Posted by Pfinstegg on October 15, 2002, at 16:20:35
In reply to Re: Chronic emptiness? Is HELL for a BPD, posted by ZH389 on October 13, 2002, at 1:11:23
Dear ZH389,
I wanted to follow up on my previous message a bit to make it more well-rounded. Having read a lot on BPH, you undoubtedly have found out that many psychiatrists now consider it a particular form of post-traumatic stress disorder, with the stress occurring in early childhood, and involving neglect and/or abuse (physical or sexual), or at the very least, a mismatch between the child and the caregiver, so that the child feels alone , unsupported and chronically stressed beyond its capabilities to cope. The physiological effects of such early stress are now beginning to be documented by brain studies in animals and people- they include alterations in the normal development of the brain, especially the pre-frontal cortex and the hippocampus, and abnormalities in the levels and actions of stress hormones and neurotransmitters.
I didn't mention medications in my earlier post, but they are definitely important in the treatment of BPH, especially early on. However, I do believe strongly that psychotherapy is essential - finding a psychotherapist with whom you can share those extremely painful feelings of aloneness and emptiness, and begin to fill in those empty places through a gradually deepening relationship with her/him, is what will enable you to grow beyond the BPD. It used to be that psychotherapists often didn't want to treat BPD patients, because they found that it was a difficult, lengthy, and often not very successful process. However, this has changed a lot, in the last ten years especially. Therapists trained in the newer technigues of relational therapy, and other similiar techniques, feel that BPD is such a common diagnosis, probably playing some part in almost every patient they see, that it is no longer a big deal- just a regular part of their work- and they feel confident in their abilities to really help. From my own experience, I think it's fair to say that overcoming BPD in therapy is very painful, and very hard work, but it is do-able! You just need the right therapist to do it with.
Whether the brain responds to medication and therapy by returning to normal is a hot topic for reseachers now. It does normalize in laboratory animals who have been stressed and then treated with some of the newer, experimental antidepressants and anti-stressors, but no-one has tested human beings enough yet to know. One really encouraging thing to keep in mind is the fairly recent discovery that people continue growing new neuronal connections- dendrites- in the hippocampus throughout life, so there is definitely the possibility of real repair of brain structures damaged by stress in early life. Having had therapy before there were any good anti-depressants available, I am privately convinced that the therapy itself helped me repair and start re-growing something vital in my own brain!
Do you feel that you can tell us a bit more about your own situation, and what your present plans and possibilities for treatment are? There are a number of people here on Psychobabble who truly understand the extreme pain BPD causes, and among us, you should be able to get a variety of helpful viewpoints. I hope we will hear from you.
Pfinstegg
Posted by snowden on October 16, 2002, at 20:06:37
In reply to Re: Chronic emptiness? Is HELL for a BPD, posted by Pfinstegg on October 15, 2002, at 16:20:35
Is there really a light at the end of this tunnel??????
Please tell me more, what medications helped you, how you are doing today, etc...
I'm so scared that this is the life I am doomed to live and endure, and I have no idea how I got where I am today. I used to be able to laugh and love and live but now I feel nothing but emptiness and I don't want to do anything but sleep. The desire to just close my eyes and never wake up is unbelievable and I feel so empty inside...anything that used to give me joy now makes me feel sad. I've tried Prozac, Wellbutrin, Serzone, Edronax, and now Picolimone, but I feel so lost. Now I use food to fill me up, only to try and get rid of it later on...Please, any advice you have will be greatly appreciated.
Snowden
Posted by Pfinstegg on October 17, 2002, at 16:55:24
In reply to Re: Chronic emptiness? Is HELL for a BPD » Pfinstegg, posted by snowden on October 16, 2002, at 20:06:37
Hi...When I had BPD I was in my twenties and early thirties, because of having had a neglectful, depressed mother and an alcoholic, physically and sexually abusive father. There weren't nearly as many medications available then as there are now, but I was always on the tricyclics, which helped some but not a lot. The main thing one could do then was go to a psychiatrist. I actually went to eight different ones over a period of 14 years; but I never felt I was getting better until I went to the 9th one, who gave me the right diagnosis (BPD) and helped me tremendously by enabling me to replace the very negative inner mental representations I had of my parents with healthier positive ones, first with him, and then gradually with other people I was able to add to my life. It made an amazing difference; I had previously been so depressed, anxious and isolated that I would start and stop school, avoid dating, etc., etc. Afterwards, I was able to complete graduate school, get the kind of job I had always wanted, marry, and raise a happy child. I was still on the anxious side,but not depressed, and really felt able to live a full, happy life.
I'm on Psychobabble today because of a major depression which happened suddenly after three family members died close together in time, but, painful as this has been, it is not as painful as having BPD. I am grateful every day that I had that wonderful psychotherapy. It was so vital and important to me that I still think of it often.
Today, though, I think the situation is brighter: it's easier to find a well-trained therapist, there are more medications available(although it sounds as though you have tried quite a few without much luck), and there are newer investigative areas when there's a lot of depression involved.
There's one thing I feel I must ask you- do you think you have developed bulimia on top of all the other difficulties? If you have, maybe going to someone who is expert in that would be a good first step. On this board, you are in a really safe place; you are not alone, as lots of us have or have had BPD, and know just how terrible it is.
It's a place where you can say what you truly feel, and there will be other people who will truly understand.I do hope you find the right answers for yourself, and that you will also keep posting to let us know how things are going..take good care of yourself.
Pfinstegg
Posted by dougie on December 23, 2002, at 22:01:02
In reply to For Snowden: light at the end of the tunnel, posted by Pfinstegg on October 17, 2002, at 16:55:24
Hi: saw this quote of yours and wondered if you could elaborate. I sometimes feel as if I am the blunt of my wifes repressed anger at her ather who whilst not abusive was incredibly cold and rigid and unsupportive of her growing up. How can i help in the process you described?
> Hi...When I had BPD I was in my twenties and early thirties, because of having had a neglectful, depressed mother and an alcoholic, physically and sexually abusive father. There weren't nearly as many medications available then as there are now, but I was always on the tricyclics, which helped some but not a lot. The main thing one could do then was go to a psychiatrist. I actually went to eight different ones over a period of 14 years; but I never felt I was getting better until I went to the 9th one, who gave me the right diagnosis (BPD) and helped me tremendously by enabling me to replace the very negative inner mental representations I had of my parents with healthier positive ones, first with him, and then gradually with other people I was able to add to my life. It made an amazing difference; I had previously been so depressed, anxious and isolated that I would start and stop school, avoid dating, etc., etc. Afterwards, I was able to complete graduate school, get the kind of job I had always wanted, marry, and raise a happy child. I was still on the anxious side,but not depressed, and really felt able to live a full, happy life.
>
> I'm on Psychobabble today because of a major depression which happened suddenly after three family members died close together in time, but, painful as this has been, it is not as painful as having BPD. I am grateful every day that I had that wonderful psychotherapy. It was so vital and important to me that I still think of it often.
>
> Today, though, I think the situation is brighter: it's easier to find a well-trained therapist, there are more medications available(although it sounds as though you have tried quite a few without much luck), and there are newer investigative areas when there's a lot of depression involved.
>
> There's one thing I feel I must ask you- do you think you have developed bulimia on top of all the other difficulties? If you have, maybe going to someone who is expert in that would be a good first step. On this board, you are in a really safe place; you are not alone, as lots of us have or have had BPD, and know just how terrible it is.
> It's a place where you can say what you truly feel, and there will be other people who will truly understand.
>
> I do hope you find the right answers for yourself, and that you will also keep posting to let us know how things are going..take good care of yourself.
>
> Pfinstegg
Posted by Pfinstegg on December 27, 2002, at 3:31:06
In reply to Re: For Snowden: light at the end of the tunnel » Pfinstegg, posted by dougie on December 23, 2002, at 22:01:02
Hi Dougie.. I saw your post by chance, and did want to answer, as best i can. I think it is easier to find a skilled therapist now than it was when I was looking for one. Some of the most effective therapeutic advances come under the heading of "relational" or "attachment-disordered" . I don't know where you live, of course, but I think that the Institute for Contemporary Psychoanalysis and Psychotherapy, at 3000 Connecticut Ave, NW, suite 108A, Wash., DC, 20008 would be able to help you find a good therapist for your wife- if she's interested in seeing one. You can reach them : tel 202-686-9300, FAX 202-232-2565, or e-mail icpeastadmin@worldnet.att.net. They have a nationwide list of members who are skilled in the kind of interactive therapy which can be so effective in developing new ways of experiencing both oneself, and others. I do wish you luck.
warm wishes,
Pfinstegg
Posted by dougie on December 28, 2002, at 19:49:12
In reply to Re: For Snowden: light at the end of the tunnel » dougie, posted by Pfinstegg on December 27, 2002, at 3:31:06
I had not heard of this: can you elaborate?
Posted by Pfinstegg on January 6, 2003, at 20:23:59
In reply to Thanks, posted by dougie on December 28, 2002, at 19:49:12
The code names "interactive" or "relational" applies to a type of psychotherapy which has become quite important over the last decade. It may be easier to say what it is not: it de-emphasizes traditional insight-oriented approaches, and also does not utilize techniques such as suggestion or guidance much. The basic idea behind it is that people with personality disorders, i.e., narcissistic, borderline, passive-aggressive, etc. got that way because of abnormalities in the development of their relationships to their parents in both the attachment and separation phases, and that the way out is to experience a new, healthier relationship with the therapist which will help the patient mature in his interpersonal relationships, as he would have done as a child if conditions had been more favorable. This would mean both becoming able to be attached and trusting, and also being able to individuate and separate. Many of these therapists now believe that patients with personality disorders really have abnormalities in their neurophysiological development as a result of excessive childhood stress. However, they also think that these are at least partially reversible using the kind of therapy I have mentioned, and, of course, often medications as well, especially at the beginning of treatment. Medications which seem to work particularly well for BPD include Zyprexa and Prozac in combination- these often enable a person to make a strong start in therapy, and may or may not be needed long-term.
This is about all I know about it. I think Stephen Mitchell is the psychiatrist who first used the term "relational"- he has written several books which are worth reading. For an excellent view of the neurophysiological aspects of childhood neglect and abuse, look up Charles Nemeroff of Emory University, who has several review articles on Google.
Pfinstegg
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