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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 26. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Stephanie on January 4, 2000, at 20:17:47
I would like to get other people's opinions on which medications have worked for them for bi-polar disorder. Depakote caused me to gain too much weight and I've been on Carbatrol for 4-6 months now. It doesn't seem to be doing much good at all. My mood swings are still extreme and I cannot seem to control them. It is causing me to have serious problems with all my relationships, personal and otherwise. Please give me some feedback. I'm wondering if I need to discontinue the Carbatrol and don't know if doing it all at once would be harmful.
Posted by jamie on January 5, 2000, at 3:50:34
In reply to Meds for Bi-Polar?, posted by Stephanie on January 4, 2000, at 20:17:47
> I would like to get other people's opinions on which medications have worked for them for bi-polar disorder. Depakote caused me to gain too much weight and I've been on Carbatrol for 4-6 months now. It doesn't seem to be doing much good at all. My mood swings are still extreme and I cannot seem to control them. It is causing me to have serious problems with all my relationships, personal and otherwise. Please give me some feedback. I'm wondering if I need to discontinue the Carbatrol and don't know if doing it all at once would be harmful.
You may want to seriously consider either Lamictal or Neurontin. Also keep in mind that two mood stabilizers together sometimes does the trick where either one alone doesn't. But I would start with Lamictal and then Neurontin.
To learn more, click on "tips" at the top of the main page. Once there, do a search on Lamictal and/or Neurontin. Both of these are showing good results in bipolar with more antidepressant potential than the older ones and far fewer side effects.
jamie
Posted by Janice on January 6, 2000, at 20:56:20
In reply to Meds for Bi-Polar?, posted by Stephanie on January 4, 2000, at 20:17:47
I've had great success with lithium. Stops the highs, the 20 second mood swings and dramatically decreases the lows.
As for bad side effects, it gives me acne (treatable) and nausea (I take gingerroot for this). Good luck, Janice
Posted by S. Suggs on January 7, 2000, at 11:55:33
In reply to Re: Meds for Bi-Polar?, posted by Janice on January 6, 2000, at 20:56:20
I myself take lithium-900mg daily. Have taken it for 3 1/2 years and with great success. Moods have leveled out in a big way. Blessings,
S. Suggs
Posted by janice on January 7, 2000, at 21:13:39
In reply to Re: Meds for Bi-Polar?, posted by S. Suggs on January 7, 2000, at 11:55:33
Hi S. Suggs,
i believe i read in another one of your posts that you have ADHD.
Do you take the lithium for the ADHD or for manic depression? Do you have both?
curious, Janice
Posted by janet on January 7, 2000, at 22:54:12
In reply to S. Suggs, posted by janice on January 7, 2000, at 21:13:39
I take Lithium and Depakote. Some people are taking Tegretol now, which is a seizure medication used for epilepsy but works for Bi-Polars.
Posted by S. Suggs on January 8, 2000, at 8:18:07
In reply to S. Suggs, posted by janice on January 7, 2000, at 21:13:39
Hello Janice! You are correct, I have ADD-H. The reason I take lithium was to orgionally augment Prozac over 3 years ago. It was and still is a wonderful experience! I found out that it still worked it's wonders when I quit Prozac at one point and was just on lithium. Also, I stopped the lithium to see how I would do. BAD IDEA!! I found out that lithium may tend to lose its effectiveness when starting and stopping. As far as I'm concerned, I'll take it till I die. I am not manic/bipolar (have heard of "soft bipolar"-have you?). With ADD-H, I also have Dysthymia (low grade depression, for years I had no Idea what the problem was) I also read (if I can remember correctly that in England, they treat dysthymia , first line, with mood stabilizers.
The Lithium (at 900 mg per day now) keeps me at even keel. Sure, I get upset/angry at times, but in a much more controled fashion. Anger was the big problem for me in the past which lithium has performed miracles on. Sorry to ramble. Blessings,
S. Suggs
Posted by S. Suggs on January 8, 2000, at 8:23:00
In reply to Meds for Bi-Polar, posted by janet on January 7, 2000, at 22:54:12
I took Tegetrol once for a rare form of neuralgia in my ear (geniculate neuralgia). I could not tolerate the Tegetrol because of the loss of muscle control in my hands. I could only write a line at a time and have to let my hand rest. My speech was effected and it made me very sleepy. In my opinion, if it works for someone, great!
Blessings,
S. Suggs
Posted by Stephanie on January 8, 2000, at 10:17:18
In reply to Meds for Bi-Polar, posted by janet on January 7, 2000, at 22:54:12
>I took Prozac years ago for depression before the bi-polar was diagnosed. Once diagnosed I was started on Depakote which made me gain too much weight. I was then switched to Tegretol, and now and on Carbatrol. I am also on Temazipam to help me sleep at night. I am so angry at times that I feel I could harm someone. Obviosly, I need more than Carbatrol. Lithium scares me because quite honestly I think of mental institution patients taking it. I've recently heard of Lamictal & Neurontin which both sound interesting to me.
Posted by Janice on January 8, 2000, at 13:31:00
In reply to Re: S. Suggs, posted by S. Suggs on January 8, 2000, at 8:18:07
Hi S. Suggs,I started lithium for manic depression, but it also helps my ADHD just as significantly. the lithium stops the wild mood swings I can have within an hour's time, my impulse control, and helps with control of my anger. So far, it helps more with my depressions than any AD has.
Do you know why ADHD people have such a hard time with anger? Do you think anger is essentially an impulse control problem? why do ADHD people seem to feel more anger than other people? and do you know why?
Thanks S.Suggs, Janice
Posted by Noa on January 8, 2000, at 15:03:53
In reply to S.Suggs... Anger and ADHD, posted by Janice on January 8, 2000, at 13:31:00
> Do you know why ADHD people have such a hard time with anger?
I don't know, but here is a guess. One theory of ADHD is that there is less activity in the prefrontal cortex. (Psychostimulants are supposedly good at "activating" that "thinking brain" area.) Could it be possible that with this reduction in activity, the role of that part of the brain in mediating emotional impulses that come from the limbic system is more limited?
Posted by noa on January 8, 2000, at 15:10:36
In reply to Re: S.Suggs... Anger and ADHD, posted by Noa on January 8, 2000, at 15:03:53
impulsive of me to submit before being sure I am done....
Another thought. There has been research showing ADHD kids do less "self talk" to process what they are taking in and their reactions to it. I think this "self talk" function is an example of cortical processing mediating emotional activity. The thing is, the early, emotional parts of our brain respond more quickly than the thinking parts. One book I saw says it is simply a longer path to the neocortex. Is it possible that in people with ADHD, the "self talk" function doesn't kick in, either at all, or just not as quickly, to process reactions, put things into context, see things in proportion, etc.This seems to be one of the ways ADHD and other disorders overlap: a reactive emotional brain, and difficulty getting the logical, thinking brain to mediate the emotional piece.
Posted by CarolAnn on January 8, 2000, at 16:01:07
In reply to Re: S.Suggs... Anger and ADHD, posted by noa on January 8, 2000, at 15:10:36
Even though I am ADD W/O (never had a hyperactive moment in all my 36 yrs!), I do have the anger problem. I can get so angry at such unimportant stuff! I think Noa's ideas are very insightful. I know that it's not Just anger with me. I have always been super sensitive, I seem to hurt more, grieve more, agonize more, ect., then anyone I have ever known. At least now, I know it all has a *real* reason. It was actually a relief to find out about the ADD! After spending my whole life thinking that I just had some kind of weird, defective, personality; to find out that the problem was *physical*, a mere brain glitch, took a huge weight off my psyche! Oddly enough finding out I had ADD was somewhat of a blessing. Though, I will admit to having a pretty quirky personality anyway, at least I no longer feel like some alien creature set down among the humans!CarolAnn
Posted by Elizabeth on January 8, 2000, at 20:08:50
In reply to Re: Anger and ADHD and us non-hyperactives too, posted by CarolAnn on January 8, 2000, at 16:01:07
> Even though I am ADD W/O (never had a hyperactive moment in all my 36 yrs!), I do have the anger problem. I can get so angry at such unimportant stuff!
My pdoc called this trait (how easily angered you are) "frustration tolerance." He says people with ADD have less of it.
Paradoxically, despite having less patience than other people, we ADDers are also slower! It takes me forever to do stuff like getting ready in the morning (even though I'm not tired) -- I think it's in part because I'm so disorganized.
What have people found helps with frustration tolerance? I haven't had too much luck with stimulants, but MAOIs work well for a lot of ADHD type symptoms including this one. Lithium didn't seem to do much. (It did snap me out of a spell of anhedonia, though.)
Posted by S. Suggs on January 8, 2000, at 21:37:48
In reply to S.Suggs... Anger and ADHD, posted by Janice on January 8, 2000, at 13:31:00
Wow Janice what a question! As for myself, I know that the anger was at least partly due to the dysthymia. The ADD-H factor may depend from person to person as far as anger goes. I could be built up frustration of not having what you need, that you had 5 minutes ago, one minute later finding out that it is in your right hand, and to top it off, forgetting why you went to that part of your house to begin with (by the way, this is called living in the "hereafter"-not knowing what we were here after). We ADD'ers don't function "normally" in a lot of ways, this in turns leads to anger that finally comes out. But percentage wise based against the rest of the population, we are much more creative and highly persistant and a very dependable group of people. Blessings,
S. Suggs
Posted by Janice on January 9, 2000, at 0:48:50
In reply to Re: S.Suggs... Anger and ADHD, posted by S. Suggs on January 8, 2000, at 21:37:48
great responses. Noa, how do these specialists suggest ADHD people deal with anger? practise and use self-talk?
Sometimes I wonder why is it the emotion anger that people so commonly have problems with? Is it because of the danger of someone acting on anger?
I notice that many different emotions or even ideas can take control of my life for a few days at a time.
Sometimes, I believe, it's almost like a seizure.
they seem triggered, like anger, by a small event, and then, spontaneously, it goes away.For example, for a three day period recently, I could do nothing but think about how bad a father my brother is. My brain would not let me not think about this. Of course, during this period, I was able to find ample evidence to prove this idea right; although in reality, he is a very decent father.
I have learnt not to act on these 'seizures', and often feel very guilty afterwards for believing the things I do when they happen.
Anyone else experience anything like this? Or any ideas about what to do when this happens? All insights appreciated, Janice.
Posted by Renee N on January 9, 2000, at 1:19:34
In reply to Anger...and other Emotions that take over you., posted by Janice on January 9, 2000, at 0:48:50
> great responses. Noa, how do these specialists suggest ADHD people deal with anger? practise and use self-talk?
>
> Sometimes I wonder why is it the emotion anger that people so commonly have problems with? Is it because of the danger of someone acting on anger?
>
> I notice that many different emotions or even ideas can take control of my life for a few days at a time.
>
> Sometimes, I believe, it's almost like a seizure.
> they seem triggered, like anger, by a small event, and then, spontaneously, it goes away.
>
> For example, for a three day period recently, I could do nothing but think about how bad a father my brother is. My brain would not let me not think about this. Of course, during this period, I was able to find ample evidence to prove this idea right; although in reality, he is a very decent father.
>
> I have learnt not to act on these 'seizures', and often feel very guilty afterwards for believing the things I do when they happen.
>
> Anyone else experience anything like this? Or any ideas about what to do when this happens? All insights appreciated, Janice.Janice, have you discussed this with your psychiatrist, therapist or doctor? I'm no expert, but it could be signs of OCD or just the ruminations of a depressed person.
Cognitive-behaviorial therapy teaches how to progress from negatively unrealistic self talk to more helpful reality based self talk. I'm ADD and/or depressed(I think dysthymic) and I know I have constantly talked to myself in my head my whole life. When I first was confronted with the idea that my problems may be not only ADD, I realized how much of my self talk is negative; and then, when I started reading the book by Burns, Feeling Good:the New Mood Therapy, I realized it wasn't just negative, but also only my own distorted views. Others may not see me the same way. I haven't finished the book, but I highly recommend at least taking a look at it. I must say that I believe that the drugs are a more immediate relief for depression, but that the ideas presented in this book could help anyone, depressed, or not, to feel better about themselves and to learn things they can actually DO to help themselves become more emotionally healthy.
Posted by dj on January 9, 2000, at 1:22:14
In reply to Anger...and other Emotions that take over you., posted by Janice on January 9, 2000, at 0:48:50
Janice,
Sorry to hear that u lost your Calgary job & may be returning to T.O. Bummer!
What you describe some would characterize as obsessising. It's a label (like depression) which I hate (like most labels) however when I'm honest with myself I know I do it, both on good things and bad. The challenge is to find healthy things to obsess about and do something about it. Doubtless Bill Gates obsesses about Microsoft and it has made him a lot of $ as well as grief.
Practicing vispassana (insight) meditation is one way to attempt to deal with it. There are Shambalha centres across North America where you can get some training in this simple technique for free, in a matter of minutes.
The basics are about noticing when you are obsessing about whatever, letting it go, and then going back to concentrating on your breath, a word count or whatever...
Wearing a rubber band and snapping it against your wrist when you note yourself obsessing is also supposed to be way to retrain yourself or by saying STOP firmly to yourself when you note the same. Lots of info. on all of this out there. The challenge is to go beyond the intellectual knowledge to the practice.
A couple of well written books on Vispassana meditation and life in general are *Full Catastrophe Living* by Dr. Jon Kabat-Zinn and Mindfullness in Plain English by Venerable Henepola Gunaratana.
Cheers!
Posted by Renee N on January 9, 2000, at 1:29:44
In reply to Re: Anger...and other Emotions that take over you., posted by Renee N on January 9, 2000, at 1:19:34
> > great responses. Noa, how do these specialists suggest ADHD people deal with anger? practise and use self-talk?
> >
> > Sometimes I wonder why is it the emotion anger that people so commonly have problems with? Is it because of the danger of someone acting on anger?
> >
> > I notice that many different emotions or even ideas can take control of my life for a few days at a time.
> >
> > Sometimes, I believe, it's almost like a seizure.
> > they seem triggered, like anger, by a small event, and then, spontaneously, it goes away.
> >
> > For example, for a three day period recently, I could do nothing but think about how bad a father my brother is. My brain would not let me not think about this. Of course, during this period, I was able to find ample evidence to prove this idea right; although in reality, he is a very decent father.
> >
> > I have learnt not to act on these 'seizures', and often feel very guilty afterwards for believing the things I do when they happen.
> >
> > Anyone else experience anything like this? Or any ideas about what to do when this happens? All insights appreciated, Janice.
>
> Janice, have you discussed this with your psychiatrist, therapist or doctor? I'm no expert, but it could be signs of OCD or just the ruminations of a depressed person.
> Cognitive-behaviorial therapy teaches how to progress from negatively unrealistic self talk to more helpful reality based self talk. I'm ADD and/or depressed(I think dysthymic) and I know I have constantly talked to myself in my head my whole life. When I first was confronted with the idea that my problems may be not only ADD, I realized how much of my self talk is negative; and then, when I started reading the book by Burns, Feeling Good:the New Mood Therapy, I realized it wasn't just negative, but also only my own distorted views. Others may not see me the same way. I haven't finished the book, but I highly recommend at least taking a look at it. I must say that I believe that the drugs are a more immediate relief for depression, but that the ideas presented in this book could help anyone, depressed, or not, to feel better about themselves and to learn things they can actually DO to help themselves become more emotionally healthy.As usual, I forgot somethong I wanted to say. I am the daydreamy, absentminded professor, ype of ADHD. I am not hyper. I believe we see more outward directed anger from those with more hyperactivity and impulsivity. I am not easily angered at others(Okay, I do swear at other drivers when they can't hear me!), but I WAS often angry at myself for the pathetic ADD type blunders I make. Since being on ADs and reading Feeling Good..., I am trying to direct that anger at the ADD rather than at me. I have a long way to go with this. I also am learning that every little blunder doesn't need so much of my attention, time and energy, since I probably and seeing it throughblack rather than rose colored glasses.
Posted by S. Suggs on January 9, 2000, at 5:36:44
In reply to Re: Obsessing.., posted by dj on January 9, 2000, at 1:22:14
Janice, as with dj, sorry to hear about the job situ. FYI, I quit my job in August due to major ethical concerns. I'm still looking-so to a degree, I can relate. But it has given me a lot of time to reflect on all the other issues (all that everyone has) and work on them. Many blessings to you and your situation.
S. Suggs
Posted by Noa on January 9, 2000, at 10:18:59
In reply to Re: Obsessing.., posted by S. Suggs on January 9, 2000, at 5:36:44
Janice, sometimes the biggest step is just to notice the obsessive thoughts, and be able to say "oh, yeah, I recognize that kind of thought". And in this case, to try to tell yourself you can forgive yourself for thinkging them and forgive your brother for not being a perfect Dad. I wonder if something triggered the anger and you weren't sure what it was, so your brain "goes looking" for a reason, in this case, something became evidence of your brother's inadequacies as a Dad. Also, did this reverberate with recollections of your own Dad? Could there be things you see in you brother that are triggering feelings from your own childhood, feelings that you can't find specific memories for, which happens a lot because our feeling memories are better than our thought memories. Renee and dj had good suggestions. Are you in therapy?
Posted by Janice on January 9, 2000, at 22:50:44
In reply to Re: Obsessing.., posted by Noa on January 9, 2000, at 10:18:59
hi everyone,
A few days ago, this idea...that when all is said and done, I am essentially addicted to intensity ... crystalized itself inside my head. and I'm pretty certain that this is true
So this is called obsessing. If I am guilty of anything in life, it's being oblivious to the obvious.
My life seems to me, at this point, to be made up of a series of crisis. This intensity of my emotional life must be what makes me feel I am alive. a type of self-medication.
I have a therapist but by the time I see him, this current crisis will have passed and I will be onto another one. I will almost have completely forgotten this one by my next session; and that's what seems to bring to Babble-land. Trichotillomania, which is a type of OCD, is one of my diagnosis.
Yes, it's being able to catch your self-talk and obsessive thinking that is the tricky part. This far, I have not been unable to do either. I have read Feeling Good, and it did help with my anxiety. I honestly don't know how to catch my self-talk and obsessive thoughts.
Noa, yes, my brother was reminding me of my father, towards whom, I have barn-filled amounts of anger stored up inside of me. I overlooked this completely.
and finally, when all is said and done, and I know these emotional emergencies are what make me feel alive, I still remain a complete mystery to myself.
When I lost my job, I felt extremely good about myself. My self-esteem was at it's highest while I was being canned, and for the rest of that day. I have no idea why.
Thanks for all your great insights, Janice.
Posted by Janice on January 9, 2000, at 22:55:06
In reply to Re: Janet, posted by Stephanie on January 8, 2000, at 10:17:18
institute were manic-depressives and they were taking lithium, they wouldn't have been in the institutions.
don't believe the lithium hype! Janice.
Posted by Noa on January 10, 2000, at 1:47:26
In reply to Stephanie... if those patients in the mental ..., posted by Janice on January 9, 2000, at 22:55:06
Janice, that is an interesting self-analysis. I wonder if you feel a sort of adrenaline rush when you are hyper-focused on a problem.
I also can see how obsessing can be similar to trichotillomania. Actually, these two phenomena travel together a lot. What I was thinking as I read your post was that hyperfocusing on a problem can be compared to the tension involved in trich symptoms. One way to look at it is that it is a place to channel your anxiety. Another is that your brain gets locked into some sort of loop.
As to how to catch self talk, I think you are already on the right path, coming up with all these insights.
Posted by Sean on January 10, 2000, at 13:54:22
In reply to Meds for Bi-Polar?, posted by Stephanie on January 4, 2000, at 20:17:47
> I would like to get other people's opinions on which medications have worked for them for bi-polar disorder. Depakote caused me to gain too much weight and I've been on Carbatrol for 4-6 months now. It doesn't seem to be doing much good at all. My mood swings are still extreme and I cannot seem to control them. It is causing me to have serious problems with all my relationships, personal and otherwise. Please give me some feedback. I'm wondering if I need to discontinue the Carbatrol and don't know if doing it all at once would be harmful.
it has really helped me tremendously, almost like
I have a new brain...Sean.
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