![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 26 to 50 of 81. Go back in thread:
Posted by tabitha on December 19, 2003, at 21:43:40
In reply to Are things getting better?, posted by Jai Narayan on December 19, 2003, at 8:45:49
> You are a wonderful person and I like you very much and I want to send you my caring through these words.
> I care and know that your heart is true and you are sincere.
>
> Please don't stop communicating.Aww, thank you so much. That feels good to hear. Yup, I definitely suffer from over-thinking things. Sometimes it just gets comical. If only I could harness that energy toward something useful-- just bring it down from my head into my feet somehow.
Posted by tealady on December 20, 2003, at 1:18:37
In reply to Re: Rampant miscommunication? » tabitha, posted by Larry Hoover on December 18, 2003, at 8:46:51
Hi Tabitha,
First let me wish you a merry Xmas, happy and healthy 2004 and all that.
Just reading this thread..bit late getting there from Oz (unless I'm awake in the middle of the night).I hope you work it out soon, but please don't stop communicating. I appreciate the help you have given me before, and I'm sure many others do too.
The internet and emails must be one of the most difficult communication mediums , especially if one is not gifted in written expression. Phone is much easier.
Face to face we rely so much more on other means of communications..not so much the actual words..and the same words can mean sooo many different things depending on the way they are said..the tone, facial/body expressions etc..which just cannot be put into words effectively.
Still the internet does allow some communication and this is way better than none...believe meI haven't been following what had been happening , but just from this thread ..it really did come across to me that you thought you thought you were having a problem communicating
"> > I'm in a weird state. It seems like all my interactions with people are creating miscommunication. A lot of it is text and email like here which I know is notorious for miscommunication, but it's happening in my face to face and phonecalls too. It seems like I can't say anything or hear anything without a misunderstanding happening. My mind is going nuts trying to figure it out-- am I suddenly not seeing things clearly? Is everyone hypersensitive this time of year? It feels like I'm in a strange dream where everything is just a bit skewed."
>
and then Lar said ..>
> Tab, I've been confused in conversations with you myself, and I worked hard to figure out why. The best I can figure is that I get mixed messages, like there are mutually incompatible clusters of thoughts coming from you. It could be that the inferences I draw from what you're saying are not agreeing with the literal text.
>
> I thought maybe it was me. But if others are reporting this, then I think that perhaps my "mixed message" theory may be valid.
>
> Lar
which again , to me, just meant:
well I thought it was just me..but if you, yourself, personally, are finding it with others, and thinking you are having a problem yourself, ..then perhaps the fault is not ALL me after allI don't take as any rejection of hurtful thing to say where you need to put on a protective suit?
Of course, I really just came in on the end of this ... so this is just my interpretation based on what I see written here and how Lar comes across himself on the forum too.>
>"No, nobody else is saying that.
>If you're talking about what I think, what >happened there was you wouldn't take me at my >word. My message wasn't mixed-- it was rejected. >If you won't believe a sincere statement, then ?>there's nothing I can do to reach you.
>
>I'm going to put on my teflon suit now and let >your analysis of my faulty thought process roll >off me like water.
>
>Go in peace, Larry. "
>
I sure hope this helps a bit and I hope you work it out and feel great again soon ...but make sure you keep communicating, OK?Jan
Posted by tealady on December 20, 2003, at 13:19:56
In reply to Re: Rampant miscommunication? » Larry Hoover, posted by tealady on December 20, 2003, at 1:18:37
Posted by tabitha on December 20, 2003, at 21:06:09
In reply to Re: Rampant miscommunication? » Larry Hoover, posted by tealady on December 20, 2003, at 1:18:37
> I don't take as any rejection of hurtful thing to say where you need to put on a protective suit?
Tell you what.. if you're OK with being told you give mixed messages and have mutually incompatible thought clusters coming from you.. how about I just give Larry's post to you as a gift? I find it hurtful, coming after some history of offering sincere statements and having them critiqued as being secretly insincere.
The protective suit is an image my therapist came up with to help me avoid taking others' criticisms to heart, given that what they see is mixed with their own projections. It's up to me to name what's true for me, and reject the rest. For me, communication breaks down when someone rejects my sincere statements of my own feelings and motivations. Beyond that, I'm just wasting energy fighting off someone's negative perception that doesn't fit. I have enough self-criticism. It's time for some self-protection.
Posted by tealady on December 20, 2003, at 22:50:51
In reply to Re: Rampant miscommunication? » tealady, posted by tabitha on December 20, 2003, at 21:06:09
> > I don't take as any rejection of hurtful thing to say where you need to put on a protective suit?
>
> Tell you what.. if you're OK with being told you give mixed messages and have mutually incompatible thought clusters coming from you.. how about I just give Larry's post to you as a gift? I find it hurtful, coming after some history of offering sincere statements and having them critiqued as being secretly insincere.
>
> The protective suit is an image my therapist came up with to help me avoid taking others' criticisms to heart, given that what they see is mixed with their own projections. It's up to me to name what's true for me, and reject the rest. For me, communication breaks down when someone rejects my sincere statements of my own feelings and motivations. Beyond that, I'm just wasting energy fighting off someone's negative perception that doesn't fit. I have enough self-criticism. It's time for some self-protection.Tabitha,
If you really find that protective suit helps, then by all means wear it. Whatever helps is useful!
I just didn't read the post that way at all..more that he was receiving the mixed messages...and was a bit relieved to find the communication problem was not all his, in that others may be having communication problems too...just going by what you posted. I thought he was trying to be helpful in telling you how he was perceiving your messages.I was just stating how these posts came across to me.
You have never come across as insincere to me, and I didn't read that in Lar's comments, sigh.
Having one's sincere statements critiqued as being secretly insincere could be hurtful especially if you have not worked it out between you, but honestly..NONE of that came across in this thread, at least to me...and it does seem out of character for Larry.
Don't think I've helped at all, so I think I should give up... but I hope it all works out soon. I didn't mean to hurt you any further.Merry Xmas (or whatever name you are happy with),
Jan
Posted by Larry Hoover on December 21, 2003, at 8:36:15
In reply to Re: Rampant miscommunication? » tealady, posted by tabitha on December 20, 2003, at 21:06:09
I'm going to open with quotes from two of tealady's posts, as they quite accurately reflect my own perceptions and intent:
to you:
"I haven't been following what had been happening , but just from this thread ..it really did come across to me that you thought you thought you were having a problem communicating."about me:
"which again , to me, just meant:
well I thought it was just me..but if you, yourself, personally, are finding it with others, and thinking you are having a problem yourself, ..then perhaps the fault is not ALL me after all"more about me:
"I just didn't read the post that way at all..more that he was receiving the mixed messages...and was a bit relieved to find the communication problem was not all his, in that others may be having communication problems too...just going by what you posted. I thought he was trying to be helpful in telling you how he was perceiving your messages."Exactly. I'm glad that my message was read that way by somebody, else I'd be thinking I may have another miscommunication problem to work out.
> Tell you what.. if you're OK with being told you give mixed messages and have mutually incompatible thought clusters coming from you.. how about I just give Larry's post to you as a gift? I find it hurtful, coming after some history of offering sincere statements and having them critiqued as being secretly insincere.
I'm sorry you felt my comments were hurtful. I have never said you were insincere, if that is what you implying about me.
I use a "playing catch" metaphor to represent interpersonal communications. One person "throws" an idea, and the other person tries to "catch" it. Miscommunication is when the ball is dropped, and it doesn't much matter whether it's because the throw was off the mark, or the catcher fumbled the ball. If you're the pitcher, you have no control over how the ball is caught. It's out of your control. The only thing you can change is how you throw the next ball.
When I offered up my theory of mixed messages, it may have seemed like I was "blaming" you, but it was an extension of the assumption you were seeking insight. You can't change me, for my part in miscommunication. My comments were about you because that is the only place YOU have power. Absolute power, in fact. I was not labelling you. I thought you were asking, in so many words, "Where might I look?".
> The protective suit is an image my therapist came up with to help me avoid taking others' criticisms to heart, given that what they see is mixed with their own projections.
What was I projecting? Help me with my insight, if you please.
> It's up to me to name what's true for me, and reject the rest.
Exactly the assumption I was assuming you would assume.
> For me, communication breaks down when someone rejects my sincere statements of my own feelings and motivations. Beyond that, I'm just wasting energy fighting off someone's negative perception that doesn't fit.
What did I say that was inherently negative? What did I reject as insincere? Or are you even talking about me?
> I have enough self-criticism. It's time for some self-protection.
A valid concern, but I wasn't throwing fire. Teflon an unanticipated response.
I do not blame you for our miscommunication. I continue to work on my part in dropping the ball. My mentioning what may be your part (merely a suggestion) does not remove the responsibility I face in working on my part....it helps me focus more clearly.
Regards,
Lar
Posted by Karen_kay on December 21, 2003, at 10:50:59
In reply to Re: Rampant miscommunication? » tealady, posted by tabitha on December 20, 2003, at 21:06:09
(((tabitha))) I have to agree with Dinah. I haven't noticed any type of miscommunication on your behalf. Maybe it is those around you, who happen to be talking in circles. It can make your head spin, and leave you with the impression that you are miscommunicating. It will pass in time. Sending you warm, nice, and CLEAR thoughts (actions and words) for now!
Karen
Posted by Jai Narayan on December 21, 2003, at 10:59:45
In reply to Re: Rampant miscommunication? » tabitha, posted by Larry Hoover on December 21, 2003, at 8:36:15
>>When I offered up my theory of mixed messages, it may have seemed like I was "blaming" you, but it was an extension of the assumption you were seeking insight. You can't change me, for my part in miscommunication. My comments were about you because that is the only place YOU have power. Absolute power, in fact. I was not labelling you. I thought you were asking, in so many words, "Where might I look?".
<<Remember this quote? Lar you said this in Nov during communication with me about honesty: you said:
***" There is one exception. There are those who say they will speak with brutal honesty,………I just wanted to make a point that honesty should also include honest feelings, e.g. respect and empathy."***
<<You are not being brutal but you are not following your own rules:
***Larry wrote:
"I just wanted to make a point that honesty should also include honest feelings, e.g. respect and empathy."IMHO you may have wanted to fix the problem ***"Where might I look?"***
(give her your analysis) and that's where you were coming from while it appears she wanted to be heard and get some empathy. It's a common problem with communication styles…I often ask for emotional support not a **fix it** response.
Lar, your pearls of wisdom are greatly appreciated if I ask for them. I have learned a lot from you and am open to your reflection but only when I ask for it. Then I'm ready to learn...
I hope this can be resolved.
peace & love to you both
Posted by henrietta on December 21, 2003, at 11:00:09
In reply to Re: Rampant miscommunication? » tealady, posted by tabitha on December 20, 2003, at 21:06:09
This is my first post, but I've been reading for a long time. I just want to say that I think you communicate beautifully, Tabitha. I always read your posts, always appreciate your particular articulate and intelligent style.
Posted by Larry Hoover on December 21, 2003, at 11:48:40
In reply to Re: Rampant miscommunication?, posted by Jai Narayan on December 21, 2003, at 10:59:45
Posting to a public board got public responses. I told you what I meant. I told you my motive. There's no way I'm going to accept someone else failing to treat *me* with empathy and respect, and failing to acknowldege *my* sincerity, in the guise of reinterpreting my words to imply my own failure in those realms.
This may be a Venus/Mars issue, but that is NOBODY's fault. Being a Venusian doesn't make this a Martian problem.
Have a nice day.
Lar
Posted by henrietta on December 21, 2003, at 12:48:48
In reply to Rampant miscommunication?, posted by tabitha on December 17, 2003, at 21:04:30
May I also add that I find you insightful and perceptive, and admire your interpretative abilities.
Posted by henrietta on December 21, 2003, at 12:53:52
In reply to Re: Rampant miscommunication? » tabitha, posted by henrietta on December 21, 2003, at 12:48:48
Posted by Jai Narayan on December 21, 2003, at 18:36:18
In reply to Re: Rampant miscommunication? » Jai Narayan, posted by Larry Hoover on December 21, 2003, at 11:48:40
> Posting to a public board got public responses. I told you what I meant. I told you my motive. There's no way I'm going to accept someone else failing to treat *me* with empathy and respect, and failing to acknowldege *my* sincerity, in the guise of reinterpreting my words to imply my own failure in those realms.
>
I guess my attempt to give you my clarity failed. wow I guess I thought you might understand that comment. Boy was I wrong.
> This may be a Venus/Mars issue, but that is NOBODY's fault. Being a Venusian doesn't make this a Martian problem.
>
I have not studied or learned about this concept. I don't know what you are talking about with the Venus/Mars stuff. sorry.
> Have a nice day.
Well I didn't have a nice day, I have been real sick. I hope you have a nice day.
>
> Lar
Jai Narayan
Posted by Jai Narayan on December 21, 2003, at 19:39:34
In reply to Rampant miscommunication?, posted by tabitha on December 17, 2003, at 21:04:30
I am astounded by how much interaction this post brought up. What must you think of this?
I am now in a conflict (of sorts) with Larry Hoover...I really didn't think that would happen again.
So are you doing alright ?
What does this look like from your point of view?
I honestly thought I had some good points to clarify but...well you see what has happened. Communication is so important and when it goes awry well I guess you sit back and wonder. How did this happen? What did I say? What did they mean? What is going on here? peace Jai Narayan
Posted by Karen_kay on December 21, 2003, at 20:38:33
In reply to what must you think of all of this?, posted by Jai Narayan on December 21, 2003, at 19:39:34
(((Jai)))
((Tabitha)))
And just for fun and because I hope she's reading....
(((Dinah)))Seems everyone's now involved in some sort of miscommunication??? Hopefully I won't get involved. I feel like when I try to support someone, someone else becomes offended and then I get involved.. So, it happems even with the best intentions.. But, the funny thing is it only happens on the board.. It doesn't seem to happen on the others.. Figure that one out.. I can't.. Maybe I can... Anyhooo....
Tabitha......Sorry that a post expressing frustration and looking for support had to move towards sourness.. I'm sure that the stress of the season has a lot to do with it.. I *TRULY AND SINCERELY* have not noticed the slightest bit of inconsistencies in your recent posts. If others have, then that is their option and opinion. I have not. It happens that people sometimes are misunderstood. It is commmon, very common. But, it will pass. And, as you can see, there are PLENTY of people here to support you, even if they do think that maybe you are being inconstistent. So, don't let it get you down too much.
Now, for ((Jai))
Girlie..... I'm sorry you are having conficts (of sorts) again... But, you can only have conficts if you allow them to happen... Just, don't let it get to you...Avoid the situation if you can. If that helps. If you feel that it isn't helping you, rather hindering you, then it is best to step aside for a while and evaluate yourself until you can come back with an open mind and clear(er) thoughts. [I don't mean step aside from the board.. Just try to seperate yourself from the situation. Does this make sense?] Or, don't respond. It may only feed a fire that doesn't need more oxygen. There are numerous people here who will support you (like me :) If you feel that someone isn't being supoprtive right now, take some time to thing about what you need and ask for it. If that person isn't willing to give it at that time then move on. But, I also wonder why it is that you and Larry seem to be "getting into it." (Stay with me here, ok?) Is it becasue he is telling you exactly how he feels. I know he doesn't always seem to come across as "sugary sweet" but he has firm boundaries and wants you to respect them. And it seems that the slightest infringement upon those boundaries puts up a red flag. Just something to consider....
I am (and will continue to be) here to support you. If you need support from me, just ask. Actually, you don't have to ask. I think I can tell if you need it. And it sounds like you need it now hun. You're doing a great job. Stick around. I like you :) "Because you're good enough, you're smart enough, and doggone (is this spelled right?) it, people like you.."Larry...
I hope I'm not out of line by saying that. I'm really not trying to put my foot in my mouth, which I do quite often. Feel free to tell me if I have, and I'm sure you will :) I'm just trying to help Jai get a handle on a situation which is causing her some undue stress in her life. So, if I've written something out of place, don't spare my feelings (they don't get hurt too easily) and let me know. I'm just trying to do my part to support her, and possibly help her gain some perspective on this situation.
I hope things work out on everyone's behalf... Including my own. There, now I feel like I may need some support. Maybe there is some miscommunication going on from my part too...
[HELP!!]
Karen
Posted by gabbix2 on December 21, 2003, at 21:15:09
In reply to what must you think of all of this?, posted by Jai Narayan on December 21, 2003, at 19:39:34
I think if the depression doesn't cause you to lose your mind than the drugs will, and if neither of those do, than the stress from situations like this will. So really the only safe thing is to have no mind at all.
Now if you'll excuse me I have some t.v sets I need to throw out a window...
Posted by tealady on December 21, 2003, at 22:47:40
In reply to Re: Rampant miscommunication?, posted by Jai Narayan on December 21, 2003, at 10:59:45
> >>When I offered up my theory of mixed messages, it may have seemed like I was "blaming" you, but it was an extension of the assumption you were seeking insight. You can't change me, for my part in miscommunication. My comments were about you because that is the only place YOU have power. Absolute power, in fact. I was not labelling you. I thought you were asking, in so many words, "Where might I look?".
> <<Remember this quote? Lar you said this in Nov during communication with me about honesty: you said:
> ***" There is one exception. There are those who say they will speak with brutal honesty,………I just wanted to make a point that honesty should also include honest feelings, e.g. respect and empathy."***
> <<You are not being brutal but you are not following your own rules:
> ***Larry wrote:
> "I just wanted to make a point that honesty should also include honest feelings, e.g. respect and empathy."
OK...well personally what I think? I think Lar was speaking with respect and empathy and honesty...in fact I actually thought he was trying to be helpful and I also thought that Tabitha was actually asking for advice as well.This is not me just trying to take sides..it is what I REALLY thought.
So it seems that somehow I misinterpreted Tabitha's post as well...so I guess it depends on the person how it can be interpreted.It seems to me, Jai, that you seemed to be saying that Lar was breaking his own rules of " honesty should also include honest feelings, e.g. respect and empathy."...so are you saying that Lar was not being respectful or not showing empathy...as personally it came across to me that he was!...So it looks, to me, like you have jumped in , well it IS a public board .....and decided to say that Lar was either lacking in respect or empathy or both.
I really can't see where he did anything like that!It appeared to me that Tabitha was asking for some advice and/or sympathy..whatever anyone could offer. That is how I took the post , and on careful rereading I have not changed my mind.
Obviously I made the same mistake in interpretation as Lar.
Probably because, in a similar situation ,that is what I personally would be asking with similar words,.. for both advice and sympathy..that is what I find I need and value in support. Someone to not only listen ..but also someone to communicate with me and share their thoughts on the matter. This is a far bigger ask than just wanting people to agree with you or give you some sympathy, ..probably why it is hard to find.
But to me this is far more valuable....but obviously there is a difference in how we all think and what we all need...which is to expected as we are not all identical I guess.>
> IMHO you may have wanted to fix the problem ***"Where might I look?"***
> (give her your analysis) and that's where you were coming from while it appears she wanted to be heard and get some empathy. It's a common problem with communication styles…I often ask for emotional support not a **fix it** response.
So are you suggesting here that when someone asks for help ..they should specify what type of help they require..like sympathy ONLY please, no advice wanted...??
> Lar, your pearls of wisdom are greatly appreciated if I ask for them. I have learned a lot from you and am open to your reflection but only when I ask for it. Then I'm ready to learn...
> I hope this can be resolved.
> peace & love to you both
>
So here agian you are suggesting someone should respond with advice after a post only when they specifically say..advice wanted here?
note ..in Tabitha's first post she said
"It seems like all my interactions with people are creating miscommunication.....It seems like I can't say anything or hear anything without a misunderstanding happening. My mind is going nuts trying to figure it out-- am I suddenly not seeing things clearly? Is everyone hypersensitive this time of year? "So this is not asking for helpful advice?
I would have thought anyone replying and letting Tabitha know in a friendly way how they have been perceiving her messages was a helpful reply?
Jan
Posted by Jai Narayan on December 22, 2003, at 8:09:57
In reply to Re: what must you think of all of this?Tabitha » Jai Narayan, posted by Karen_kay on December 21, 2003, at 20:38:33
> (((Jai)))
> ((Tabitha)))
> And just for fun and because I hope she's reading....
> (((Dinah)))
>
These ((())) are so effective. I always get jarred when I see them.
> Now, for ((Jai))
> Girlie.....
So I'm a Girlie....
> If you feel that it isn't helping you, rather hindering you, then it is best to step aside for a while [I don't mean step aside from the board.. Just try to seperate yourself from the situation. Does this make sense?] Or, don't respond. I know he doesn't always seem to come across as "sugary sweet" but he has firm boundaries and wants you to respect them.
<The way if appears to me is he can give advice but he but he can't take it. It's a one way interaction. He can be blunt but I have to be very careful and sweet. I can't be blunt as well. I gave him advice when he was not asking for it. Just like he did for Tabitha. It's okay for him and not for me?> I hope I'm not out of line by saying that. I'm really not trying to put my foot in my mouth, which I do quite often. Feel free to tell me if I have, and I'm sure you will :) I'm just trying to help Jai get a handle on a situation which is causing her some undue stress in her life. So, if I've written something out of place, don't spare my feelings (they don't get hurt too easily) and let me know. I'm just trying to do my part to support her, and possibly help her gain some perspective on this situation.
< We all know both Tabitha and Larry are very good people. We all like them. I will bow out and only support...as I am sure that will not be met with anger from Larry. I am learning how to communciate on this board too. It's fun, exciting and sometimes painful.
Thank you Karen for your insight and kindness.
Posted by Jai Narayan on December 22, 2003, at 8:43:36
In reply to Re: what must you think of all of this? » Jai Narayan, posted by tealady on December 21, 2003, at 22:47:40
> OK...well personally what I think? I think Lar was speaking with respect and empathy and honesty...in fact I actually thought he was trying to be helpful and I also thought that Tabitha was actually asking for advice as well.
<I have no doubt he thought he was being helpful. But was it? Why are we all chatting about this so long if it was so helpful?
> This is not me just trying to take sides..it is what I REALLY thought.
<I know that and am open to what you have to say. I have always felt respect and appreciate your posts.
> So it seems that somehow I misinterpreted Tabitha's post as well...so I guess it depends on the person how it can be interpreted.
<I know that is a tricky thing...what does it all mean. In my family I have 4 siblings and one of them is always trying to fix my problems. She just can't get that I only want support. While another gives me support as a rule and it doesn't seem to be a stetch for her. Same communication different reactions...go figure.
> It seems to me, Jai, that you seemed to be saying that Lar was breaking his own rules of " honesty should also include honest feelings, e.g. respect and empathy."...so are you saying that Lar was not being respectful or not showing empathy...as personally it came across to me that he was!
<The only part that was lacking for me was the empathy...and might I add boundaries. It looks like he stepped on her toes.
> Obviously I made the same mistake in interpretation as Lar.<I know I think it's a common problem.
> Probably because, in a similar situation ,that is what I personally would be asking with similar words,.. for both advice and sympathy..that is what I find I need and value in support. Someone to not only listen ..but also someone to communicate with me and share their thoughts on the matter.
<right and sometimes that's what I want too, but I will invite the person to give me their take on the matter. I will ask for that type of advice. Now this is a topic on boundaries.
> So are you suggesting here that when someone asks for help ..they should specify what type of help they require..like sympathy ONLY please, no advice wanted...??
<that sure would make life easier...we wouldn't be having this conversation if that had happened.
> note ..in Tabitha's first post she said
> "It seems like all my interactions with people are creating miscommunication.....It seems like I can't say anything or hear anything without a misunderstanding happening. My mind is going nuts trying to figure it out-- am I suddenly not seeing things clearly? Is everyone hypersensitive this time of year? "
> So this is not asking for helpful advice? I would have thought anyone replying and letting Tabitha know in a friendly way how they have been perceiving her messages was a helpful reply?
< If her questions to the board had included something like this: can anyone please tell me what I may be doing to cause this? Then I think dive in and go for it. She never asked for anyone elses analysis of her communication. It sounds to me like she is puzzling it out.
Plus don't you think that a public board might not give you as much protection as you would want....I think an couselor would be the right forum for that discussion....just my thoughts on the matter.
thanks Jan for your insight.
> Jan
Posted by Larry Hoover on December 22, 2003, at 9:23:34
In reply to Re: what must you think of all of this?Tabitha, posted by Jai Narayan on December 22, 2003, at 8:09:57
> <The way if appears to me is he can give advice but he but he can't take it. It's a one way interaction. He can be blunt but I have to be very careful and sweet. I can't be blunt as well.
Jai, if you cannot distinguish between advice and judgment, I would ask that you not speak to me or about me at all.
You said (edited by ellipsis to contract the sentence to its essence):
<<"You are not being brutal but you are not following your own rules ... e.g. respect and empathy."
There is no advice in that statement. There is only judgment, i.e. not respectful, not empathetic. I categorically reject that judgment, for a second time.
> I gave him advice when he was not asking for it.
You gave your interpretation of Tabitha's statement, i.e. her seeking of empathy, rather than advice. Again, that is not advice (to me). Instead, it implies that I am failing to heed a component of the posting which can only be inferred. Forgive me for not reading minds.
> Just like he did for Tabitha. It's okay for him and not for me?
Go back to Tabitha's original posting, which opened this thread. There are specific punctuation marks, which we call question marks, i.e. ? ....do you see them? It is not unreasonable to presume that more than empathy was being sought.
I take great care to use descriptive language (e.g. mixed message) rather than judgmental language (e.g. faulty thinking), although it is an art rather than a science to distinguish between the two. Moreover, I am not perfect in its execution, and I am more than happy to try and explain myself more fully if my intent has gone astray (please recall my "playing catch" metaphor). I do not shy away from a topic because it is awkward, but that does not make me blunt. However, there are some individuals for whom bluntness is the only style that effectively communicates my intent.
Have I been blunt enough, Jai?
Regards,
Lar
Posted by Karen_kay on December 22, 2003, at 9:29:30
In reply to Re: what must you think of all of this?Tabitha, posted by Jai Narayan on December 22, 2003, at 8:09:57
(((Jai)))
> These ((())) are so effective. I always get jarred when I see them.
<<Good! I'm glad you appreciate them! Here's another one (Jai)
> > Girlie.....
> So I'm a Girlie....
<<<[Foot in mouth] Is itpossible you're not a girlie? CRAP! Well, in the future, I'll try to be better about not making assumptions. I suppose I assume that since I'm a woman, maybe I'm talking to a woman. I thought you'd referred to yourself as a woman. Maybe not. I can't breath now, my foot is slowly moving further down my throat.... I'M SORRY :(
> <The way if appears to me is he can give advice but he but he can't take it. It's a one way interaction. He can be blunt but I have to be very careful and sweet. I can't be blunt as well. I gave him advice when he was not asking for it. Just like he did for Tabitha. It's okay for him and not for me?<<<Hmmm... I'm tempted to check the civility codes here, but alas, I'm lazy. I guess I'll be warned if I potentially offend, but I don't think I'm going to write anything offensive (at least that is not my objective). I have little interaction with Larry. He appears to be extremely intelligent, though. I think (personally) what is lacking in his posts is emotion. Whereas you seem to exude emotion. So, when posting, he seems to be hypercritical of each word and its literal meaning. When Tabitha posted, possibly looking for support, he gave her his honest answer. Maybe it wasn't extremely helpful to her at the time. But it was his honest answer. But, is wasn't extremely supportive either. So, if you are looking for an honest answer, ask Larry. If you are looking for support, ask someone else, like Jai . (Or follow your suggestion and write it out... "I'm looking for support please... Not an indepth look at how others view me or a list of my own character flaws..) That's the way I tend to look at it.
Each person here tends to have a different role and personality. Take advantage of it. I'm sure it may just be the season, or the stress of the season. And it seems that everyone is miscommunicating.
> < We all know both Tabitha and Larry are very good people. We all like them. I will bow out and only support...as I am sure that will not be met with anger from Larry. I am learning how to communciate on this board too. It's fun, exciting and sometimes painful.<<<I agree with that, they are both very good people. Why do you think that you must only support? Your view on things is just as valid as others. Just because somone doesn't agree, doesn't make it wrong. How many people on this board are you having conflicts with? Take some time to think about the situation. It really isn't a big deal. Look back at some of the old posts, where you had a past conflict. Look at how many others supported you. You still have a large network of supporters. It is all about learning. That's the most important thing!
>
> Thank you Karen for your insight and kindness.<<You are very welcome :)
Posted by Larry Hoover on December 22, 2003, at 10:01:07
In reply to Re: what must you think of all of this?, posted by Jai Narayan on December 22, 2003, at 8:43:36
> Why are we all chatting about this so long if it was so helpful?
Because you are looking at my post with the benefit of hindsight. That's easy, and offers up a false sense of truth and veracity. Had Tabitha said, "Gee thanks Lar", we wouldn't be having this conversation at all.
Posted by gabbix2 on December 22, 2003, at 15:13:17
In reply to Jai, posted by Karen_kay on December 22, 2003, at 9:29:30
> <The way if appears to me is he can give advice but he but he can't take it. It's a one way interaction. He can be blunt but I have to be very careful and sweet. I can't be blunt as well. I gave him advice when he was not asking for it. Just like he did for Tabitha. It's okay for him and not for me?I don't know how *anyone* was to know whether or not Tabitha was asking for advice in that situation. If I had posted the same thing, I would have appreciated honest feedback. People are different. I don't think any poster has a way of knowing that.
This has gone far beyond what Tabitha orignally posted though which is why I feel I have to say something
I would definitely feel judged if someone told me I was lacking "empathy" or "respect"--ESPECIALLY when they were in reference to words that I did not say, but judgements against an intention someone had decided for me.
>If you are looking for an honest answer, ask Larry. If you are looking for support, ask someone else
Those two are not mutually exclusive, actually in my opinion often go together quite nicely;
I think many of the people who have sought Larry out for support in the time he's been here would disagree, all you need to do is look at the boards.
Posted by Angielala on December 22, 2003, at 15:50:40
In reply to Rampant miscommunication?, posted by tabitha on December 17, 2003, at 21:04:30
Tabitha- I hear you... I'm have the same problems. Talking to people, they seem to hear one thing, though I'm relaying something completely different. Keep this in mind... people who do not understand the complexities of those whom may suffer from social anxiety, depression, Personality problems and so forth, aren't going to be the most patient people in the world. Think of it as though you know something that they don't- you know that they are probably not going to get the full meaning of what you are talking about. Ask them lots of questions to reiterate what you are saying, for example, "I'm having trouble this form I need to fill out. Why can't I just call them?" The person you are say that too probably has a million questions like, "what form, what do you mean" most people won't ask you, they will just get frustrated. So ask them. "Do you know what form I'm talking about?" "Do you know of a person I can get in contact with to assist me better with this?" It takes patience, and it takes some practice, but sooner or later, people will start see where you are coming from.
I hope this helps. :)
> I'm in a weird state. It seems like all my interactions with people are creating miscommunication. A lot of it is text and email like here which I know is notorious for miscommunication, but it's happening in my face to face and phonecalls too. It seems like I can't say anything or hear anything without a misunderstanding happening. My mind is going nuts trying to figure it out-- am I suddenly not seeing things clearly? Is everyone hypersensitive this time of year? It feels like I'm in a strange dream where everything is just a bit skewed.
Posted by Jai Narayan on December 22, 2003, at 16:06:51
In reply to Jai, posted by Karen_kay on December 22, 2003, at 9:29:30
> > > Girlie.....
> > So I'm a Girlie....
> <<<[Foot in mouth] Is itpossible you're not a girlie? CRAP! Well, in the future, I'll try to be better about not making assumptions. I suppose I assume that since I'm a woman, maybe I'm talking to a woman. I thought you'd referred to yourself as a woman. Maybe not. I can't breath now, my foot is slowly moving further down my throat.... I'M SORRY :(
< I'm sorry I am a woman...so you were right, I was just being silly about being called a Girlie....
>
> <<<Hmmm... I'm tempted to check the civility codes here, but alas, I'm lazy.
<what does that mean? Did I break the civility code?
I guess I'll be warned if I potentially offend, but I don't think I'm going to write anything offensive (at least that is not my objective). I have little interaction with Larry. He appears to be extremely intelligent, though. I think (personally) what is lacking in his posts is emotion.
<I guess that's true.
>Whereas you seem to exude emotion.
<okay I'm embarassed my emotions are hanging out.
>So, when posting, he seems to be hypercritical of each word and its literal meaning. When Tabitha posted, possibly looking for support, he gave her his honest answer. Maybe it wasn't extremely helpful to her at the time. But it was his honest answer. But, is wasn't extremely supportive either. So, if you are looking for an honest answer, ask Larry. If you are looking for support, ask someone else, like Jai .
<you are so sweet.
>(Or follow your suggestion and write it out... "I'm looking for support please... Not an indepth look at how others view me or a list of my own character flaws..) That's the way I tend to look at it.
>
> Each person here tends to have a different role and personality. Take advantage of it. I'm sure it may just be the season, or the stress of the season. And it seems that everyone is miscommunicating.
>
<I know what you mean! *sigh*
> <<<I agree with that, they are both very good people. Why do you think that you must only support? Your view on things is just as valid as others. Just because somone doesn't agree, doesn't make it wrong.
<Wow what a progressive thought! I never thought of that. I guess I thought all we could really do was support.
>How many people on this board are you having conflicts with?
<no one else but Larry. Larry seems so huge....I really like him & he has a huge impact . Of course there where the other posters JadeT and Six who only posted when I was having my conflict with Larry.
>Take some time to think about the situation. It really isn't a big deal. Look back at some of the old posts, where you had a past conflict. Look at how many others supported you. You still have a large network of supporters. It is all about learning.
< I totally agree. It's all about learning...that's life for me.
You have always been informative and kind to me thank you for all your insite and help.
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