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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 10 to 34 of 136. Go back in thread:
Posted by Deneb on January 17, 2007, at 23:00:26
In reply to Re: Dr. Bob, something better needs to be done, posted by Glydin on January 17, 2007, at 22:38:25
Are you talking about me? Do people want to get me blocked? I don't think I pressured anyone. I simply write that I would *feel* suicidal, I didn't threaten.
If I had threatened I would have wrote: I will kill myself if you don't do X. Can we let go of this now and move on? Is this going to haunt me for the rest of my life?
Deneb*
Posted by Deneb on January 17, 2007, at 23:01:22
In reply to Re: Dr. Bob, something better needs to be done, posted by Deneb on January 17, 2007, at 23:00:26
Posted by sleepygirl on January 17, 2007, at 23:10:17
In reply to Re: Dr. Bob, something better needs to be done, posted by Deneb on January 17, 2007, at 23:00:26
I did believe indeed that I was responding to your particular style of posting.
It often feels provocative to me and distressing.
.........consider it feedback
metacommunication can sometimes send the strongest message
-sg
Posted by Deneb on January 17, 2007, at 23:22:05
In reply to Re: Dr. Bob, something better needs to be done » Deneb, posted by sleepygirl on January 17, 2007, at 23:10:17
I'm sorry I don't know how to be a better person. Do a lot of people find my posts provocative and distressing?
Deneb*
Posted by Deneb on January 17, 2007, at 23:29:41
In reply to Re: Dr. Bob, something better needs to be done » Deneb, posted by sleepygirl on January 17, 2007, at 23:10:17
I think feedback is good, but it needs to be constructive: What should I do versus what should I not do?
Deneb*
Posted by muffled on January 17, 2007, at 23:42:18
In reply to Re: Dr. Bob, something better needs to be done, posted by Deneb on January 17, 2007, at 23:00:26
> Are you talking about me? Do people want to get me blocked? I don't think I pressured anyone. I simply write that I would *feel* suicidal, I didn't threaten.
>
> If I had threatened I would have wrote: I will kill myself if you don't do X. Can we let go of this now and move on? Is this going to haunt me for the rest of my life?**Deneb, I dunno, but the moment has passed. I would hope there's not a retroactive block really. Or not a long one if so. I dunno what could happen. I think the situation IS an example of something that needs to change. I can agree with that.
And I don't remmebr the actual post, but I am sure you don't truly intend to harm. I think mebbe its a way you cope in dealing with people, and its not good, but you HAVE improved no doubt. However this IS a mental health website, and its starting to dawn on me, why the rules are the way they are. (NOT that I agree with ALL of them) But this is a chance to learn to find better ways perhaps of expressing frustration etc.
Sometimes, lotsa times, lessons are painful it would seem.
But you hurt, and learn, and hopefully move on a better person for it.
So no offense to you Denb, your lotsa fun.
But I am afraid I would have to put MHO on Bob making it clear WHAT the policy is, and what happened in this situ. And was something missed that should have been addressed.
IMHO suicide is a sad, terrible, final, painful to SO many, thing. It is the ultimate of sadness and defeat. I can't express with words.....
And I truly don't think its something to bandy about lightly..or even semi seriously...its deadly serious...and so so sad :(
Muffled
Posted by Deneb on January 17, 2007, at 23:50:04
In reply to something better needs to be done-yes » Deneb, posted by muffled on January 17, 2007, at 23:42:18
Can someone point out to me the words that are provocative and distressing? I want the actual quotes. I do believe I was civil. Even if they really are provocative and distressing, it's not uncivil to be provocative or distressing.
Deneb*
Posted by muffled on January 18, 2007, at 0:01:39
In reply to Re: something better needs to be done-yes, posted by Deneb on January 17, 2007, at 23:50:04
> Can someone point out to me the words that are provocative and distressing? I want the actual quotes. I do believe I was civil. Even if they really are provocative and distressing, it's not uncivil to be provocative or distressing.
>
> Deneb***Sorry deneb, I don't know where the posts are.
but
Main Entry: pro·voc·a·tive
: serving or tending to <provoke> , excite, or stimulate <a provocative question>Main Entry: pro·voke
1 a archaic : to arouse to a feeling or action b : to incite to anger
2 a : to call forth (as a feeling or action) : EVOKE provoke laughter b : to stir up purposely <provoke a fight> c : to provide the needed stimulus for <will provoke a lot of discussion>Main Entry: 2distress
1 : to subject to *great* strain or difficulties <homes distressed by poverty>
2 archaic : to force or overcome by inflicting pain
3 : to cause to worry or be troubled : UPSET <don't let the news distress you>So Deneb. What do you think?
IS it civil to provoke and cause distress to others?
Really?
I am NOT trying to badger you by ANY means. I just want you to see the reality of it, so mebbe you can make sure you can moderate this behavior so you DON'T get blocked in future. I like to see you in chat. But I want it to be OK here fo all. thats all.
Muffled
Posted by muffled on January 18, 2007, at 0:16:20
In reply to Definitions » Deneb, posted by muffled on January 18, 2007, at 0:01:39
I think for those of us (me incl) who need to work on moderating our behaviors when we get upset, is to mebbe discuss on babble while we are calm, and talking with T's, bout what we can do to deal with our explosive barrage of distress when we get upset with something. It is very strong.
Gad, I starting to sound like someone I know, but I guess its just that there's things you can accomplish on this website, and things that are not appropriate to be doing here. Mebbe this isn't a place to work on management of out of control emotions 'in the moment' for alot of reasons....
I starting to make myself feel nautious with piousness, so I will shut TFU(the F up) now.
Excuse my piety, I SO full of crap really.
And DENEB, hang in there.
Happyflower I SO glad to see you posting :)
Muffled
Posted by Dr. Bob on January 18, 2007, at 0:21:20
In reply to Re: Dr. Bob, something better needs to be done » Deneb, posted by sleepygirl on January 17, 2007, at 23:10:17
> It often feels provocative to me and distressing.
Keeping in mind that the idea here is not to post anything that could lead others to feel accused, could you please rephrase that? Maybe using an I-statement? For more about I-statements, please see:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20040112/msgs/320097.html
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by Dr. Bob on January 18, 2007, at 0:21:29
In reply to Re: Dr. Bob, something better needs to be done, posted by Glydin on January 17, 2007, at 22:38:25
> For whatever reason, this recent "event" led to the fourth warning a poster had received and yet, no block. Midgating circumstances? I don't know. I do know allowances have been made before and that situation also left a bad taste in a number of poster's mouths
Hmm, is favoritism a concern?
Bob
Posted by NikkiT2 on January 18, 2007, at 0:48:23
In reply to Re: allowances, posted by Dr. Bob on January 18, 2007, at 0:21:29
maybe not favouritism..
but fear. fear that threats will be carried out.
its making babble a rather unpleasant place.
Posted by muffled on January 18, 2007, at 1:02:20
In reply to Re: allowances » Dr. Bob, posted by NikkiT2 on January 18, 2007, at 0:48:23
And you know WHY some are upset by this?
Its cuz we LIKE you.
We do not want you to go.
We are honestly afraid you will do something.
That you will do permanent damage, that you could die.
I do not want this to ever happen.
Cuz we DO care about you.
It does scare me sometimes Deneb.
You have alot of sweetness, you are young, and have stuff to learn. Learning is a lifelong process.
You are improving.
There may be setbacks, but your moving ahead in a positive way.
I am not perfect, Bob is not perfect, nobddy is perfect.
We all learning.
Muffled
Posted by Declan on January 18, 2007, at 1:19:49
In reply to Re: Dr. Bob, something better needs to be done, posted by Glydin on January 17, 2007, at 22:43:14
Posted by Fallen4MyT on January 18, 2007, at 1:35:14
In reply to Re: allowances, posted by Dr. Bob on January 18, 2007, at 0:21:29
> > For whatever reason, this recent "event" led to the fourth warning a poster had received and yet, no block. Midgating circumstances? I don't know. I do know allowances have been made before and that situation also left a bad taste in a number of poster's mouths
>
> Hmm, is favoritism a concern?
>
> BobDr Bob, I don't know if favoritism is a concern or not but I too have wondered why no block was issued with this type of behavior....I think it was Wishingstar that said it best...Please do something about this to stop the threats and damage it could cause someone who is or may be on the receiving end. I know I would be crushed if I did or didn't do something that in the end would cause ...or rather allow me to FEEL I caused their suicide. I believe many agree with this being a major issue on here.
Could these posters who post this kind of thing just be allowed to say..I feel LIKE...and then state they feel like doing things to themselves LEAVING OUT other posters, posters name and behavior or lack of it? Just some ideas, thoughts and things kicking around in my head. Could you or others in the mod team feel youre being held hostage because if you block them they may do something?
Posted by Fallen4MyT on January 18, 2007, at 1:36:24
In reply to Re: Dr. Bob, something better needs to be done, posted by wishingstar on January 17, 2007, at 18:00:26
VERY WELL SAID.,..Thank you
> I havent contributed to this discussion up until now, but I just feel the need to put in my two cents. I agree with happyflower completely. I'm sorry if this is a little unorganized.
>
> If I said to someone, "xxx, you made me feel terrible and youre not helping me - in fact, you make everything worse! this is all your fault" I'd be blocked, no questions asked, right? If I was lucky maybe a PBC, but it wouldnt be let go I'm sure. To me, a statement like the ones being discussed ("if you dont xxx, ill hurt myself") is exactly this, but worse. That statement strongly implies that the person being posted to is unhelpful and to blame for someone elses pain. To me, it is the same exact statement, just phrased differently. There have been other cases here I'm sure (although I couldnt cite any in particular) where things which are uncivil are clearly implied and the poster is blocked or PBCed.
>
> I guess some may argue that the implication I hear in the "if you dont, i will..." statement is incorrect. Others may interpret it differently if it were directed at them, but if it were directed at me, I KNOW I'd feel bad, uncomfortable, helpless, and put down, and hurt. This reminds me of an issue I've seen on the politics board before... for instance, if someone makes a statement either for or against a political figure, and receives a block for it... even if it was rather mild and unlikely that anyone was personally offended, the site seems to operate on the idea that IF someone could be offended, it's not civil. I understand this. And so what I'm trying to express here, as others have, is that I WOULD be offended to receive a "if you dont, i will..." post directed at me. No maybe about it. Why protect us from something that just may offend someone, but continue to allow things that many people have expressed IS offensive to them?
>
> Dr Bob, I'd be interested in hearing your rationale or thinking regarding allowing these posts. I dont want to argue this point, but I would really like to understand it. Perhaps it would help me (and maybe others) to better understand where you're coming from.
Posted by Dinah on January 18, 2007, at 1:51:12
In reply to Re: allowances, posted by Dr. Bob on January 18, 2007, at 0:21:29
Since I'm the one who didn't issue a block, I'll answer that.
Dr. Bob had not been doing anything about that type of posts. He listened to Babblers, saw their point, and issued a post that the behavior would fall under the category of pressuring another poster.
This to me was a new application of a rule that had not been applied in that way before. And thus it didn't seem at all fair to start with a block, so a Please Don't Pressure was issued.
No favoritism was intended.
Had the behavior been repeated, a block would have been issued, per usual custom. However to my knowledge it wasn't.
Dinah, explaining her actions as deputy to Dr. Bob
Posted by Dinah on January 18, 2007, at 2:17:43
In reply to Re: allowances, posted by Dinah on January 18, 2007, at 1:51:12
I suppose I should add that, as I've explained in posts before, I rarely lead with a block, except for posting while blocked. Unless I remember myself or someone else giving a PBC recently for the same violation of Babble civility rules, I generally give a PBC. Dr. Bob can always upgrade to a block if he considers it appropriate.
My motivation is to stop a situation, it's not punitive.
Dinah, explaining her actions as deputy to Dr. Bob
Posted by Dinah on January 18, 2007, at 2:26:52
In reply to Re: allowances, posted by Dinah on January 18, 2007, at 2:17:43
I have to admit to feeling a bit perplexed as to why the campaign for change appears to me to be continuing when the objective has been achieved.
Dr. Bob listened to posters, and recognized that a hitherto allowed behavior did in fact fall into one of two already enacted Babble civility rules, depending on context. This is more or less like a supreme court ruling, and posts and babblemails and chats can be reported via accepted channels based on this new ruling.
I do understand that passions are running high, and people may feel the need to vent. But it sounds as if people feel they still need to convince Dr. Bob of the position, when he's already been convinced, to my understanding. Dr. Bob can correct me if I'm wrong.
Dinah, posting as poster
Posted by Glydin on January 18, 2007, at 3:04:35
In reply to Re: allowances, posted by Dr. Bob on January 18, 2007, at 0:21:29
> > For whatever reason, this recent "event" led to the fourth warning a poster had received and yet, no block. Midgating circumstances? I don't know. I do know allowances have been made before and that situation also left a bad taste in a number of poster's mouths
>
> Hmm, is favoritism a concern?
>
> Bob~~~ Yes
Posted by Glydin on January 18, 2007, at 3:38:39
In reply to Re: Dr. Bob, something better needs to be done, posted by Deneb on January 17, 2007, at 23:00:26
> Are you talking about me?
~~~ I am questioning an Adm. lack of action and I would question it if I were the poster.
There are guidelines posters are given as expectations and standards of conduct. I think after being here a while, I have expectations and standards of how Adm. oversees this board per the guidelines.
Posted by tofuemmy on January 18, 2007, at 6:05:45
In reply to Re: allowances, posted by Dr. Bob on January 18, 2007, at 0:21:29
>
> Hmm, is favoritism a concern?
>
> BobMy concern is that due to Deneb's previous posts about the agony which she experiences when blocked, this puts Bob in an *imposible* position. If she will OD to avoid taking a test - what will she do if Bob blocks her? I'd hate to be in his shoes. The fear lies over the entire neighborhood now. It's pretty uncomfortable.
For Deneb - Maybe a list of things worth dying for would help? Personally, I'd die to save the life of a child. I'd give my life for *some* of my loved ones. But...IMO, being blocked doesn't come close to being worth dying over. Yes, I know it is more distressing for you...but
Do you think being blocked is worth dying over? It's temporary. Dead is forever. I'm not sure you fully grasp that. You scare the crap outta me when you talk about how easily you consider OD'ing to avoid distress. Please get a copy of Linehan's workbook on DBT and read the section on Distress Tolerance. I really think it will help. Here is a helpful website: http://www.dbtselfhelp.com/index.html
Take care.
Em
Posted by Happyflower on January 18, 2007, at 7:06:34
In reply to Re: allowances ... Deneb and » Dr. Bob, posted by tofuemmy on January 18, 2007, at 6:05:45
A person who is threatening sucide says it is due to because of what her mother said to her?
What if her mother was a babble member? There are hundreds of members who do not post, so do we really know?
So is it okay to threaten sucide due to what her mother said and post it on babble? How is that different than directly and indirectly threatening sucide torwards me if I don't stop ignoring a member (due to my self protection, by the way)
Saying certain things about lets say a president, would be concidered uncivil, right? I don't know the president, maybe he is a member, maybe not. But is seems like the president is protected by so called uncivil actions. Well what about this mother in this case?
Why is this coming up again after all this time? Well because I was blocked for 3 weeks for mentioning (on admin) for behavior that I felt was uncivil torwards me. I feel my post was taken out of context of my entire post. I didn't know the exact rules for reporting about a problem and I have been a member for over a year. It seems like when I did read the rules (before they were changed, again) that we can us admin. board to report these infractions. I included my previous posts of "do not post to me" and showed the posts where I felt I was talked to in a post using my name even. From what my understanding was of the rules at that time was if someone posts to you after you do a "do not post" , they would get a block. I even showed more than one post (on the same thread) where I believe I was mentioned again, and nothing was done.
Well then there would be some that would think well, a deputy didn't post a do not pressure, so even though there was several posts, emails, and chats where this was happening, that person seemed to be cleared.Well the I see it also as a problem where a deputy does nothing or delays doing something, even if I requested help in the matter on admin. So not saying anything to the person doing the behavior, allows them to do it even more, until they do get a warning. Then they stop the behavior, and after already doing the behavior several times, gets away with it because nothing was done in the appropiate timing.
It seems to me that things will and do get worse when nothing is done in a timely manner. I know deputies can't be everywhere all the time. But in this case there was more than one who read the post, and only did something much too late. I feel my complaint was ignored and then I get blocked for even mentioning the offending behavior (not using any names) torwards me out of frusteration because nothing was being done. Then I get blocked because I am complaining about it. (on admin., which I thought that was what admin. was suppose to be for if youhave a problem with the site). All my other means of reporting was ignored, so I felt I had to put it on admin for it to be taken seriously that I felt harrassed and being treated uncivil. Then I felt ignored when reporting these behaviors, I know i wasn't perfect in reporting them in the perfect way, but I did report it and felt I was ignored. , Then all of sudden there were plenty of duputies to give me a block for compaining about it, while the real reason for my posting was ignored once again.
Then why is this coming up now? Well I wasn't allowed to say anything, was I? I was silenced for 3 weeks. During that time, the same behavior I complained about happened once again.
Is it uncivil for me to say, I am going to kill myself because my mother said something bad to me? What if my mother was a member of this site? Do you know that she isn't?
Does anyone see what I am saying here, or am I wasting my time once again?
Posted by karen_kay on January 18, 2007, at 7:56:05
In reply to Well what if?, posted by Happyflower on January 18, 2007, at 7:06:34
and agree completely with you.
i'm sorry you were blocked. i'm very sorry you feel pressured. and i'm sorry mr bob isn't protecting you, just as he does everyone else. it really doesn't seem fair. everyone knows i'm his favorite, and even i've been blocked in the past.
i hope a final conclusion to this mess is made soon. it really doesn't seem fair that so many people feel pressured (and ignored!).
stay safe hf. and take care of yourself.
Posted by justyourlaugh on January 18, 2007, at 8:46:15
In reply to Well what if?, posted by Happyflower on January 18, 2007, at 7:06:34
i am sorry your feelings were not validated..
it takes courage to come back to a place that has caused pain and frustration.
"long live the organization for the organized"
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