![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 35 to 59 of 63. Go back in thread:
Posted by rod on July 25, 2005, at 6:10:09
In reply to Re: Raving SSI and Li update » barbaracat, posted by Sabino on July 22, 2005, at 7:08:19
HiHO Sabino
>for a total of 200 mgs or so.
me too!
> Li is a funny med. It acts sort of like a benzo, in that I'm way less socially tense when taking it, and it also seems to help my ADD like symptoms.
exactly. Its anxiolytic and improves attention..!
>And then... if I take too much Li, it is cognitively dulling, so for me, it's a matter of finding the right amount
hmm I didnt go higher yet, but I have found out if I take it in the morning, it is somewhat dulling. But if I take it about around 18:00 its fine... and gives an overall better effect.
> One more odd note on Li; when driving, one normally pays attention to the big picture, and not much to the peripheral stuff to the sides. I now find that I focus a lot on individual things that I'm passing a good deal. It's a little odd.
hehe same here...
bye
Roland
Posted by barbaracat on July 25, 2005, at 12:30:34
In reply to Re: Raving SSI and Li update » Sabino, posted by rod on July 25, 2005, at 6:10:09
I raised Li from 600 to 750mg a week ago and haven't noticed too much of a difference except my ongoing anxiety is a little lessened. However, one good unexpected side effect is that in raising it, I've committed to getting more exercise because I know from experience how Li affects weight gain. So I'm pushing myself to get out and walk for an hour every day, and as we all know, that's the best antidepressant going. It's just so difficult to motivate.
Sabino, if you're chipping off Lithium every hour or so, which sounds like a major pain, you might get better response with a non-extended release form. As soon as you cut into and breach the extended release mechanism, the med will get dumped into your bloodstream much faster and shorter duration than just the regular form. It would be like sucking on little pieces of candy that explode rather than melt in your mouth.
I have problems metabolizing many meds and try to go around the oral route if at all possible. I suspect many bipolars have tweaky metabolic systems. So many other issues play into it as well such as the state of your digestive system.
As an extreme example, I take daily shots of human growth hormone for fibromyalgia but don't mind it one bit. If I could get all my meds in injectable form I'd go for it in a heartbeat cause I know I'd be getting them. But not everyone is happy with the thought of needles. I also use sublingual drops and creams for other meds wherever available.
It might be worth talking to a compounding pharmacy about putting it into other delivery systems besides oral/digestive. You might find sublingual drops, transdermal creams, long release patches and such a better bet. Perhaps if it bypasses the liver and digestive system it would have a better chance for bioavailability. If you're having problems like this with other meds, you can get them combined into an alternate delivery system.
Women's International Pharmacy is one of the oldest and most comprehensive around. They work with men and women and their pharmacy staff is very helpful and willing to brainstorm with you. Their number is 800-279-5708.
- Barbara
Posted by KaraS on July 25, 2005, at 15:35:07
In reply to Re: Raving SSI and other Ravens:-) » Sabino, posted by barbaracat on July 18, 2005, at 16:08:21
>>My main disability was fibromyalgia with secondary bipolar disorder. It was the bipolar that clinched it for me. I was concerned that my records might get out and make reemployment difficult ('she's a nutcase!') but the details are not in the public record.
Hi barbaracat,Do you mind if I ask you more about the records of SSI. If I were to look for work and I had been on SSI, could a potential employer easily find that out? I understand from what you're saying above that they couldn't find out the details of a person's condition, but could they find out that I had been on SSI at all?
The fear of that information being available is one of the things that has kept me from applying (aside from having so little motivation in general and aside from not wanting to entertain the notion that I won't be well and able to work soon). Yet I haven't worked for almost 3 years now. I've even been afraid to apply for the short-term general relief for fear that a future potential employer might be able to find that out and make things even harder for me to return to the work world.
(Please forgive me if any of these questions are redundant as I haven't read the entire thread.)Thanks,
KaraP.S. 10 cats? Wow! I have two and between their medical bills and their chewing up my electrical cords, they really take require a lot of money (of course they're worth every penny of it).
Posted by barbaracat on July 25, 2005, at 16:50:54
In reply to Re: Raving SSI and other Ravens:-) » barbaracat, posted by KaraS on July 25, 2005, at 15:35:07
Oh, poor you, having to go through this - someone who definitely deserves aid but is allowing these paranoid times make life even more difficult.
I imagine an employer could dig out the fact that you were on SSI but the info is definitely not easy to get at, even for yourself. Just try to order a transcript of your SSI history for your own records and realize the hassle you have to go through. Plus, it takes quite a few weeks to receive the report and once it's received, the only information on there is how much you made that year and contributed to SSI.
Employers these days are very busy people and their HR deparments are busy enough tracking down (in descending order of frequency) references & past employment history, education & licenses, drug test results, criminal background checks, in other words relevant employment history.
I've gotten a number of documents verifying that I'm on SSI and there is no mention at all the reason why. When I called the main office, all they had was the basic info, dates, amounts. No reasons. So if it ever comes to light you could conceivably say anything you want. A friend of mine says she contracted nerve damage through an allergy to a pesticide. Another said she had terrible migraines. I say fibromyalgia. Of course, all of us are bipolar, but no future employer is ever going to get wind of that.
Your medical records, government and financial info are not handed to them on a silver platter just because you're applying for a job. Even though you have to hand over your SSI number, they have to go through alot of governmental beaurocracy to get the info - even if they knew where your records were located. Most HR protocol does the minimum in background checks because it's time consuming and expensive.
Only if an employee starts acting suspicious will they go through the considerable effort to dig deeper.
I think it's very appropriate to be concerned with how our privacy is being erroded in general, but I wouldn't let this particular issue stop you from getting the aid that you not only deserve, but you also paid for. - BarbaraCat
p.s. My cats are the delight of my and my husband's hearts. They bring such joy and humor into our lives - and dirt into our house! Disability sure doesn't pay for their vet bills, but they're pretty considerate and stay healthy.
The only time it was intense was a few years ago when my Mom suddenly died, our oldest cat was dying, an abandoned cat showed up at the house, it was winter, and all of us, cats and humans, were all going absolutely wildly bonkers - yowling, hissing, wailing non-stop. It was wild, but mainly it's pretty mellow, even with 10. And lately a Mom raccoon and 4 little babies have joined the herd. They're hanging out on the porch at this moment - with 2 of the cats hanging out with them.
> >>My main disability was fibromyalgia with secondary bipolar disorder. It was the bipolar that clinched it for me. I was concerned that my records might get out and make reemployment difficult ('she's a nutcase!') but the details are not in the public record.
>
>
> Hi barbaracat,
>
> Do you mind if I ask you more about the records of SSI. If I were to look for work and I had been on SSI, could a potential employer easily find that out? I understand from what you're saying above that they couldn't find out the details of a person's condition, but could they find out that I had been on SSI at all?
>
> The fear of that information being available is one of the things that has kept me from applying (aside from having so little motivation in general and aside from not wanting to entertain the notion that I won't be well and able to work soon). Yet I haven't worked for almost 3 years now. I've even been afraid to apply for the short-term general relief for fear that a future potential employer might be able to find that out and make things even harder for me to return to the work world.
>
> (Please forgive me if any of these questions are redundant as I haven't read the entire thread.)
>
> Thanks,
> Kara
>
> P.S. 10 cats? Wow! I have two and between their medical bills and their chewing up my electrical cords, they really take require a lot of money (of course they're worth every penny of it).
>
Posted by Dr. Bob on July 25, 2005, at 23:31:00
In reply to Re: Raving SSI and other Ravens:-) » KaraS, posted by barbaracat on July 25, 2005, at 16:50:54
> I imagine an employer could dig out the fact that you were on SSI but the info is definitely not easy to get at, even for yourself...
Sorry to interrupt, but I'd like to redirect follow-ups regarding SSI to Psycho-Babble Social. Here's a link:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/social/20050719/msgs/533556.html
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by Sabino on July 29, 2005, at 19:59:00
In reply to Re: Raving SSI and Li update » Sabino, posted by rod on July 25, 2005, at 6:10:09
Hi Rod and Barbara. Sorry I haven't responded to your posts earlier. I really haven't been logging in that much lately.
Hope you both are well. I'm still pleased with Li. Still experimenting with the amount I want to take too.
I do find that I laugh a lot more than I used to before starting Li, so that's definitely a good thing. And I haven't even been close to feeling well enough for a relationship in a number of years, but well, who knows on that front if this improvement holds up. All in all, I feel as close to normal as I have in many a year.
Not saying every day's a laughfest, just that things seem to be improved pretty much.
My concentration could use some improving, but at least I don't feel like killing myself every day.
Posted by barbaracat on July 30, 2005, at 14:51:52
In reply to Re: Raving SSI and Li update » rod, posted by Sabino on July 29, 2005, at 19:59:00
Hi Sabino,
Glad you're responding so well to Li!. I increased from 600 to 750mg and it was a good decision. I feel more calm and it's kept my micro dose of Cymbalta stable at 8mg. It was starting to creep up because I was feeling some stress and depression creeping in and as I raised the Cym I was feeling worse, as a good bipolar would. So I figured, lower the Cym and raise the Li and it worked. I have noticed a bit a weight gain - rats - but it's good incentive to move the bod.About concentration. I have a suggestion that might work. I was also feeling dulled and dumb and realized I hadn'et been taking my normal neuro nutrients that have all the cholines in them. Got some more and once again I feel much more cognitively sharp.
The ones I get are Neuro Optimizer by Jarrow. Not cheap but worth it. I get them through www.iherb.com which has great prices. This brand has all the cholines you'll need to optimize brain's acetylcholine stores. This one gets the BCat Seal of Approval (appropriate seal barking noises here). - Barbara
> Hi Rod and Barbara. Sorry I haven't responded to your posts earlier. I really haven't been logging in that much lately.
>
> Hope you both are well. I'm still pleased with Li. Still experimenting with the amount I want to take too.
>
> I do find that I laugh a lot more than I used to before starting Li, so that's definitely a good thing. And I haven't even been close to feeling well enough for a relationship in a number of years, but well, who knows on that front if this improvement holds up. All in all, I feel as close to normal as I have in many a year.
>
> Not saying every day's a laughfest, just that things seem to be improved pretty much.
>
> My concentration could use some improving, but at least I don't feel like killing myself every day.
Posted by Sabino on August 1, 2005, at 17:00:58
In reply to Re: Raving SSI and Li update » Sabino, posted by barbaracat on July 30, 2005, at 14:51:52
Hey BCat,
Thanks for the heads up on the Neuro Optimizer. Will definitely check into that. Been feeling like I've got a room temperature IQ, and oh lord, it's chilly in here.
Actually, speaking of cognition, work has really been problematic (programming, etc). In fact, I'm really wondering whether I can continue that. Seems I'm getting behinder and behinder. At a certain point, the humiliation factor comes into play. Still, the only thing I know how to do is program, and... hmmm. Turning into another whinefest. I actually left work today to avoid a meeting (my utter lack of progress would have been exposed).
May well have to follow your much appreciated advice on the SSI stuff. Trust me, I'm no malingerer. Just can't muster up sufficient concentration this last half year. The thing is, I used to be proud of my coding abilities. Now, I feel incompetent. Not a good feeling, and that's why I'm contemplating not continuing that. I just feel like I've accomplished precious little the past few weeks. I don't know what to do.
I'm glad you're feeling better with the increased Li and decreased Cym. I think I'm up to around 400 mgs of Li, and around 2.5 of Paxil daily.
Posted by barbaracat on August 1, 2005, at 21:55:55
In reply to Re: Raving SSI and Li update » barbaracat, posted by Sabino on August 1, 2005, at 17:00:58
Have you noticed this cognition thing since the Li or did it come on with the other symptoms? When I had to go on disability I was at a total block with my work. Couldn't conentrate, stressing from getting behinder, brain freeze and very emotional. I'd end up silently crying in my cube at least once a week. It was from total burnout mentally and physically.
But I know what you mean about not knowing what else to do. At this point I'd love to go back to a job I like that's lucrative because I feel I'm at a good place, but I DON'T want to go back to that world. Anything else requires years of training. It feels like a Catch-22 because if I go back to that stress I'll end up where I was. What I'd strongly recommend you do is look into your company's long-term disability rather than depending on the long-haul of SSI. You can get both, but your company's policy would start right away and give you 60% of your salary. You're required to apply for SSI anyway cause they'll want to get reimbursed from it. But see a lawyer. It won't cost you anything. and WARNING, if your company's long term insurer is Unum, watch out. They're slimy scum sucking dogs who recently got sued for bad practice.
Barbara
> Hey BCat,
>
> Thanks for the heads up on the Neuro Optimizer. Will definitely check into that. Been feeling like I've got a room temperature IQ, and oh lord, it's chilly in here.
>
> Actually, speaking of cognition, work has really been problematic (programming, etc). In fact, I'm really wondering whether I can continue that. Seems I'm getting behinder and behinder. At a certain point, the humiliation factor comes into play. Still, the only thing I know how to do is program, and... hmmm. Turning into another whinefest. I actually left work today to avoid a meeting (my utter lack of progress would have been exposed).
>
> May well have to follow your much appreciated advice on the SSI stuff. Trust me, I'm no malingerer. Just can't muster up sufficient concentration this last half year. The thing is, I used to be proud of my coding abilities. Now, I feel incompetent. Not a good feeling, and that's why I'm contemplating not continuing that. I just feel like I've accomplished precious little the past few weeks. I don't know what to do.
>
> I'm glad you're feeling better with the increased Li and decreased Cym. I think I'm up to around 400 mgs of Li, and around 2.5 of Paxil daily.
>
>
Posted by Sabino on August 4, 2005, at 9:13:53
In reply to Re: Raving SSI and Li update » Sabino, posted by barbaracat on August 1, 2005, at 21:55:55
Thanks yet again, Barbara. I've had memory attentional issues for years. Now throw concentration in to the mix, and all have worsened significantly the last couple of years.
My company does indeed have a long term disasbility (not through Unum... I believe it's called the Standard Insurance). Anyway, I will go that route first. I think they pay 60% of your salary for up to two years. Pretty darned good. I ought to qualify, as my issues are real and there's reams of documentation between my pdoc and PCP before him.
I completely relate to what you experienced at work. Couldn't concentrate, and then spiraled into worrying/stressing about the fact that I wasn't accomplishing anything.
I am now not working again as of yesterday. I emailed an attorney last night. Don't know how this'll all end, but I flat out cannot perform the tasks that my job required of me.
Now, back to the Li discussion... I'm up to around 450mgs a day now.
Barb, thanks ever so much for all the useful information.
> Have you noticed this cognition thing since the Li or did it come on with the other symptoms? When I had to go on disability I was at a total block with my work. Couldn't conentrate, stressing from getting behinder, brain freeze and very emotional. I'd end up silently crying in my cube at least once a week. It was from total burnout mentally and physically.
>
> But I know what you mean about not knowing what else to do. At this point I'd love to go back to a job I like that's lucrative because I feel I'm at a good place, but I DON'T want to go back to that world. Anything else requires years of training. It feels like a Catch-22 because if I go back to that stress I'll end up where I was. What I'd strongly recommend you do is look into your company's long-term disability rather than depending on the long-haul of SSI. You can get both, but your company's policy would start right away and give you 60% of your salary. You're required to apply for SSI anyway cause they'll want to get reimbursed from it. But see a lawyer. It won't cost you anything. and WARNING, if your company's long term insurer is Unum, watch out. They're slimy scum sucking dogs who recently got sued for bad practice.
>
> Barbara
>
>
> > Hey BCat,
> >
> > Thanks for the heads up on the Neuro Optimizer. Will definitely check into that. Been feeling like I've got a room temperature IQ, and oh lord, it's chilly in here.
> >
> > Actually, speaking of cognition, work has really been problematic (programming, etc). In fact, I'm really wondering whether I can continue that. Seems I'm getting behinder and behinder. At a certain point, the humiliation factor comes into play. Still, the only thing I know how to do is program, and... hmmm. Turning into another whinefest. I actually left work today to avoid a meeting (my utter lack of progress would have been exposed).
> >
> > May well have to follow your much appreciated advice on the SSI stuff. Trust me, I'm no malingerer. Just can't muster up sufficient concentration this last half year. The thing is, I used to be proud of my coding abilities. Now, I feel incompetent. Not a good feeling, and that's why I'm contemplating not continuing that. I just feel like I've accomplished precious little the past few weeks. I don't know what to do.
> >
> > I'm glad you're feeling better with the increased Li and decreased Cym. I think I'm up to around 400 mgs of Li, and around 2.5 of Paxil daily.
> >
> >
>
>
Posted by barbaracat on August 4, 2005, at 11:36:01
In reply to Sabino » barbaracat, posted by Sabino on August 4, 2005, at 9:13:53
Sabino,
Try those Neuro Optimizers. They really help big time with cognition. As I mentioned, I felt a bit of dulling with my recent lithium increase and taking them helped.One more thing about long term disability. Make sure you get a copy of the requirements from your HR dept. I did not qualify because I went out on disability 1 week too soon. I knew they had a one year waiting period, but I didn't know the year didn't officially start until I'd been there 6 months. My leave started one week shy of being there 1-1/2 years and I was disqualified. But that's Unum. It would have been nice to have those two years of 60% instead of nothing while I was waiting to be approve for SSI. So check the fine print and talk to an HR person and lawyer before signing anything. Money problems are stressful too.
Good luck, my friend. It's a big step towards healing when you don't have the project deadline dragons breathing down your neck. - Barbara
> Thanks yet again, Barbara. I've had memory attentional issues for years. Now throw concentration in to the mix, and all have worsened significantly the last couple of years.
>
> My company does indeed have a long term disasbility (not through Unum... I believe it's called the Standard Insurance). Anyway, I will go that route first. I think they pay 60% of your salary for up to two years. Pretty darned good. I ought to qualify, as my issues are real and there's reams of documentation between my pdoc and PCP before him.
>
> I completely relate to what you experienced at work. Couldn't concentrate, and then spiraled into worrying/stressing about the fact that I wasn't accomplishing anything.
>
> I am now not working again as of yesterday. I emailed an attorney last night. Don't know how this'll all end, but I flat out cannot perform the tasks that my job required of me.
>
> Now, back to the Li discussion... I'm up to around 450mgs a day now.
>
> Barb, thanks ever so much for all the useful information.
>
> > Have you noticed this cognition thing since the Li or did it come on with the other symptoms? When I had to go on disability I was at a total block with my work. Couldn't conentrate, stressing from getting behinder, brain freeze and very emotional. I'd end up silently crying in my cube at least once a week. It was from total burnout mentally and physically.
> >
> > But I know what you mean about not knowing what else to do. At this point I'd love to go back to a job I like that's lucrative because I feel I'm at a good place, but I DON'T want to go back to that world. Anything else requires years of training. It feels like a Catch-22 because if I go back to that stress I'll end up where I was. What I'd strongly recommend you do is look into your company's long-term disability rather than depending on the long-haul of SSI. You can get both, but your company's policy would start right away and give you 60% of your salary. You're required to apply for SSI anyway cause they'll want to get reimbursed from it. But see a lawyer. It won't cost you anything. and WARNING, if your company's long term insurer is Unum, watch out. They're slimy scum sucking dogs who recently got sued for bad practice.
> >
> > Barbara
> >
> >
> > > Hey BCat,
> > >
> > > Thanks for the heads up on the Neuro Optimizer. Will definitely check into that. Been feeling like I've got a room temperature IQ, and oh lord, it's chilly in here.
> > >
> > > Actually, speaking of cognition, work has really been problematic (programming, etc). In fact, I'm really wondering whether I can continue that. Seems I'm getting behinder and behinder. At a certain point, the humiliation factor comes into play. Still, the only thing I know how to do is program, and... hmmm. Turning into another whinefest. I actually left work today to avoid a meeting (my utter lack of progress would have been exposed).
> > >
> > > May well have to follow your much appreciated advice on the SSI stuff. Trust me, I'm no malingerer. Just can't muster up sufficient concentration this last half year. The thing is, I used to be proud of my coding abilities. Now, I feel incompetent. Not a good feeling, and that's why I'm contemplating not continuing that. I just feel like I've accomplished precious little the past few weeks. I don't know what to do.
> > >
> > > I'm glad you're feeling better with the increased Li and decreased Cym. I think I'm up to around 400 mgs of Li, and around 2.5 of Paxil daily.
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
Posted by Sabino on August 10, 2005, at 19:50:35
In reply to Re: Lithium etc. » Sabino, posted by barbaracat on August 4, 2005, at 11:36:01
Hi again. Bought the Neuro Optimizers, and I don't mind telling you, I am now The Smartest Man Alive!
Maybe a little overkill, but I do like them too.
My newest addition is Lamictal (currently 25mgs for the first two weeks; then 50, 100).
What I've noticed so far is that I feel MORE depressed. Can Lam do that at first, and then get better. I'm hoping that's the case. I've read that Lam is a bit more activating, and that it has decent AD properties.
Anyway, can anybody say that it worsens depression at first and then improves it?
Another issue: I thought it was a good idea to increase my life insurance policy, and the girl at the insurance agency didn't even ask about mental health issues, but when I had the screening later, they asked, and once I opened that Pandora's box, I tried to minimize what I've gone through, but gave them enough red meat, that I'm sure they'll find out I put lipstick on that pig.
There's no chance they'll approve the policy. Oh well, it seemed like a good idea at the time.
That's where I'm at; added Lamictal, and I'm not liking the feeling so far. Sometimes a guy just feeled doomed.
> Sabino,
> Try those Neuro Optimizers. They really help big time with cognition. As I mentioned, I felt a bit of dulling with my recent lithium increase and taking them helped.
>
> One more thing about long term disability. Make sure you get a copy of the requirements from your HR dept. I did not qualify because I went out on disability 1 week too soon. I knew they had a one year waiting period, but I didn't know the year didn't officially start until I'd been there 6 months. My leave started one week shy of being there 1-1/2 years and I was disqualified. But that's Unum. It would have been nice to have those two years of 60% instead of nothing while I was waiting to be approve for SSI. So check the fine print and talk to an HR person and lawyer before signing anything. Money problems are stressful too.
>
> Good luck, my friend. It's a big step towards healing when you don't have the project deadline dragons breathing down your neck. - Barbara
>
>
> > Thanks yet again, Barbara. I've had memory attentional issues for years. Now throw concentration in to the mix, and all have worsened significantly the last couple of years.
> >
> > My company does indeed have a long term disasbility (not through Unum... I believe it's called the Standard Insurance). Anyway, I will go that route first. I think they pay 60% of your salary for up to two years. Pretty darned good. I ought to qualify, as my issues are real and there's reams of documentation between my pdoc and PCP before him.
> >
> > I completely relate to what you experienced at work. Couldn't concentrate, and then spiraled into worrying/stressing about the fact that I wasn't accomplishing anything.
> >
> > I am now not working again as of yesterday. I emailed an attorney last night. Don't know how this'll all end, but I flat out cannot perform the tasks that my job required of me.
> >
> > Now, back to the Li discussion... I'm up to around 450mgs a day now.
> >
> > Barb, thanks ever so much for all the useful information.
> >
> > > Have you noticed this cognition thing since the Li or did it come on with the other symptoms? When I had to go on disability I was at a total block with my work. Couldn't conentrate, stressing from getting behinder, brain freeze and very emotional. I'd end up silently crying in my cube at least once a week. It was from total burnout mentally and physically.
> > >
> > > But I know what you mean about not knowing what else to do. At this point I'd love to go back to a job I like that's lucrative because I feel I'm at a good place, but I DON'T want to go back to that world. Anything else requires years of training. It feels like a Catch-22 because if I go back to that stress I'll end up where I was. What I'd strongly recommend you do is look into your company's long-term disability rather than depending on the long-haul of SSI. You can get both, but your company's policy would start right away and give you 60% of your salary. You're required to apply for SSI anyway cause they'll want to get reimbursed from it. But see a lawyer. It won't cost you anything. and WARNING, if your company's long term insurer is Unum, watch out. They're slimy scum sucking dogs who recently got sued for bad practice.
> > >
> > > Barbara
> > >
> > >
> > > > Hey BCat,
> > > >
> > > > Thanks for the heads up on the Neuro Optimizer. Will definitely check into that. Been feeling like I've got a room temperature IQ, and oh lord, it's chilly in here.
> > > >
> > > > Actually, speaking of cognition, work has really been problematic (programming, etc). In fact, I'm really wondering whether I can continue that. Seems I'm getting behinder and behinder. At a certain point, the humiliation factor comes into play. Still, the only thing I know how to do is program, and... hmmm. Turning into another whinefest. I actually left work today to avoid a meeting (my utter lack of progress would have been exposed).
> > > >
> > > > May well have to follow your much appreciated advice on the SSI stuff. Trust me, I'm no malingerer. Just can't muster up sufficient concentration this last half year. The thing is, I used to be proud of my coding abilities. Now, I feel incompetent. Not a good feeling, and that's why I'm contemplating not continuing that. I just feel like I've accomplished precious little the past few weeks. I don't know what to do.
> > > >
> > > > I'm glad you're feeling better with the increased Li and decreased Cym. I think I'm up to around 400 mgs of Li, and around 2.5 of Paxil daily.
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
Posted by Squiggles on August 10, 2005, at 20:01:38
In reply to Too little Lithium vs. just enough? experiences, posted by barbaracat on July 13, 2005, at 16:34:05
It doesn't matter how you feel -
your doctor will decide whether
the symptoms you report are worth
changing your treatment. Doctors
can be like deities; stick to their
advice, be honest, show respect
and don't be a smart-*ss (like me)
and you will fare well;Squiggles
Posted by Sabino on August 11, 2005, at 7:30:19
In reply to Re: Too little Lithium vs. just enough? experience, posted by Squiggles on August 10, 2005, at 20:01:38
Well, I think it DOES matter how I feel. In fact, my whole relationship with the doc is all about how I feel. If I were taking a med that made me feel like garbage, and the doc just wanted to keep raising the dose, clearly we'd not be on the same page. I'm willing to ride out some side effects for a reasonable period of time, but there comes a time where you throw in the towel on a given med.
Not saying I'm at that point with Lamictal; I just started it. What I think I'll do is try taking it at night instead of daytime.
I do respect my doctor. I respect his training, and his experience, but would not hesitate to fire him if he had one of those god complexes you speak of.
I want somebody who feels like it DOES matter how I feel, and actually listens when I relate how a drug is effecting me. I'm fortunate that I have such a doc right now.
> It doesn't matter how you feel -
> your doctor will decide whether
> the symptoms you report are worth
> changing your treatment. Doctors
> can be like deities; stick to their
> advice, be honest, show respect
> and don't be a smart-*ss (like me)
> and you will fare well;
>
> Squiggles
>
Posted by Squiggles on August 11, 2005, at 8:04:58
In reply to Lithium and Lamictal » Squiggles, posted by Sabino on August 11, 2005, at 7:30:19
Good luck ith the Lamictal -- you
are right of course, there should
be good communication beteen you and
your doctor. I just don't see a
necessary connection beteen ho you
feel and that one dr. can do something
different from another necessarily -
and the search could be endless.As for firing your dr., maybe it's
a Canadian thing, but barring gross
negligence, i find it unconscionable -
just my quirk.sorry about the doubleuus' my keyboard
is going.Squiggles
Posted by Sabino on August 11, 2005, at 11:10:22
In reply to Re: Lithium and Lamictal, posted by Squiggles on August 11, 2005, at 8:04:58
Hi Squiggles,
I did not mean to sound confrontational in my previous post.
As to sticking with a doctor with whom you have no rapport, and that you feel is intransigent in their approach, I see no problem at all with discontinuing the business relationship, and certainly don't find it unconscionable. I'm a consumer, and I'm paying good money for his/her services. I do believe that different pdocs have different approaches.
I happen to like mine right now, and am in no way displeased with him, just talking hypothetically.
To me, someone doesn't have to be grossly negligent for me to sever our ties. I don't put these guys on some sort of pedestal.
If the guy that mows my lawn does a decent job of it, but is in some manner rude, I'm gonna get a different landscape guy. Same with pdocs. I wouldn't break ties on a whim, but if (and this is not the case) our visits were unpleasant, and far more importantly, if he kept barking up the wrong tree, again and again, in terms of med choices, in spite of me telling him that the stuff wasn't working, I'd have no choice but to seek help elsewhere.
To each his own though. Perhaps our approaches to care are entirely different in that as you stated, you are Canadian, and that is nationalized, yes?
Posted by Squiggles on August 11, 2005, at 11:30:11
In reply to Sabino, posted by Sabino on August 11, 2005, at 11:10:22
Yes, "nationalized", though i recently
read the news that the two-tier system
will become legal if not mainstream.The US is very litigious, and that may
be because of your history which emphasizes
individual rights and freedoms and protects
them by recourse to law; i suppose that
might be necessary when the provision of
these rights is not as generous.Yes, as you say if your doctor is notoriously
bad then switch. However you may need to be an optimist and a gambling man to think that the next
doctor will be better. Furthermore, it is not
the most civic-minded approach, when the homeless
and the underprivileged are lying on the street
dying in triple digit weather, without even the
therapeutic advantage of a bottle of water.
Squiggles
Posted by barbaracat on August 11, 2005, at 12:08:47
In reply to My new potion: Lithium and Lamictal, posted by Sabino on August 10, 2005, at 19:50:35
Sabino,
How much Lam are you taking? Remember to go slooooowwww. I didn't really like Lamictal, but I was in such a bad depression that nothing was making much of a dent. It didn't really make me more depressed (with 600mg Lithium) but I felt kind of agitated and I equate anxiety and agitation with my form of depression.It let up a bit and I ended up enjoying Lamictal after a while - it was always activating and I always felt on the verge of hypomania, especially with each new increase. But I eventually had to stop because of a pre-rash condition. Besides, I prefer a more calm focused feeling and I sure didn't get that with Lam.
I'm continued to be impressed with the Neuro Optimizers. All the state of the art cholines are in there. Do you take fish oil? I really like Carlson's Finest liquid - it tastes good and you need at least 1 tablespoon a day.
All these things, including the lithium, are not merely putting bandaides on your mood problems. They're making cell membranes more flexible, growing more dendrites and increasing nerve growth factor - making your brain healthier. It would be interesting, now that you're out of the stress of working for a while, to see how fish oil, Neuto Optimizer and lithium work. If Lamictal makes you feel weird, maybe it's not for you. Of course, I'm not the best person to ask since I had such a dangerous reaction to it. - Barbara
ps I hope you're getting your nutrients from iherb. Those things are outrageous elsewhere.
Posted by Bill LL on August 11, 2005, at 12:33:44
In reply to My new potion: Lithium and Lamictal, posted by Sabino on August 10, 2005, at 19:50:35
You mentioned your concern with the mental health questions on the life insurance application.
Generally, most insurance companies will charge higher premiums if you have depression. This is especially true if you are buying individual coverage.
It's hard to falsify the information because companies require that you give them the names of your doctors who they then contact.
Although I don't know this for certain, I think that you can get a better rate if your diagnosis is "anxiety" rather than "depression". Two years a go I told my doctor that I think that my main symptom was anxiety rather than depression and asked him if he would change my diagnosis in case an insurance company contacted him. He said he would.
Posted by barbaracat on August 11, 2005, at 12:43:03
In reply to Re: Too little Lithium vs. just enough? experience, posted by Squiggles on August 10, 2005, at 20:01:38
'Fraid I can't agree, Squiggles. I live with me and I'm a better judge of how a med is making me feel, rather than someone I see for less than 1/2 hour every few weeks. I'm willing to respect their knowledge and skill, but when my comments about intense itching from Lamictal didn't cause any concern and eventually turned into the rash my confidence in my pdoc took a nosedive.
No human is a diety and if I didn't take a very proactive part in my therapy, I shudder to think where I'd be now. One of my biggest beefs with them is that the body seems to stop at the neck. Head meds. Little attention is given to possible hormonal imbalances or the many other causes of mood disorders. And even the best docs I've had over the years made some whopper poor decisions. But you're a smart cookie and perhaps you were just being tongue in cheek? - BarbaraCat
> It doesn't matter how you feel -
> your doctor will decide whether
> the symptoms you report are worth
> changing your treatment. Doctors
> can be like deities; stick to their
> advice, be honest, show respect
> and don't be a smart-*ss (like me)
> and you will fare well;
>
> Squiggles
>
Posted by Squiggles on August 11, 2005, at 12:57:14
In reply to Re: Too little Lithium vs. just enough? experience » Squiggles, posted by barbaracat on August 11, 2005, at 12:43:03
> 'Fraid I can't agree, Squiggles. I live with me and I'm a better judge of how a med is making me feel, rather than someone I see for less than 1/2 hour every few weeks.
)Granted, but you do report how you feel don't
you?I'm willing to respect their knowledge and skill, but when my comments about intense itching from Lamictal didn't cause any concern and eventually turned into the rash my confidence in my pdoc took a nosedive.
)Well, that depends on whether your rash would
have gone away or not and how long and who knew
better about that you or your dr.;
>
> No human is a diety and if I didn't take a very proactive part in my therapy, I shudder to think where I'd be now. One of my biggest beefs with them is that the body seems to stop at the neck. Head meds. Little attention is given to possible hormonal imbalances or the many other causes of mood disorders. And even the best docs I've had over the years made some whopper poor decisions. But you're a smart cookie and perhaps you were just being tongue in cheek?
)No - not tongue in cheek; All doctors make
mistakes and the longer you are under the care
the greater the chances. As for deities, i
confess that I think doctors possess greater
earthly if not heavenly powers than holy agents.
Sorry, that's a religious thing, and yes that
*is* tongue in cheek.As for the examination of the patient from the neck up -- again i trust the authority of
12 years of medical school to educate physicians
regarding the anatomy of the body. Where they
may lack expertise may be the drugs, resulting
from the plethora of variety of drugs that now
reach hundreds, sometimes for the same illness.
In this case, collaboration with the patient
becomes necessary, especially in psychiatry.
And if you have a patient doctor and you yourself are patient, you can come through with good results.Squiggles
Posted by barbaracat on August 11, 2005, at 13:58:23
In reply to Re: Too little Lithium vs. just enough? experience, posted by Squiggles on August 11, 2005, at 12:57:14
This may prove to be an interesting thread, so here goes:
>
> )Granted, but you do report how you feel don't
> you?**Of course. The current state of things in mental health is trial and error with getting the right meds. My input is hopefully important enough to my doc so he/she can best tailor things.
>
> I'm willing to respect their knowledge and skill, but when my comments about intense itching from Lamictal didn't cause any concern and eventually turned into the rash my confidence in my pdoc took a nosedive.
>
> )Well, that depends on whether your rash would
> have gone away or not and how long and who knew
> better about that you or your dr.;**Any skin condition that presents itself after taking Lamictal is reason to stop taking it. After being very sick in bed for 5 weeks I had plenty of time to learn about Stevens Johnson Syndrome. You don't wait for it to go away and once you have it, you're sensitized for life. My doctor did not know this. His ooops, made a mistake had a very big impact on My life.
My doctor obviously did not know that intense itching is an inflammatory condition, a prodromal state whereby if the allergan is not removed, the condition can progress on to Stevens Johnson Syndrome. He did not suggest lowering the dose and did not make the connection that I was in a pre-rash state. His comment was 'Gee, maybe you're finally becoming allergic to your cats.' I made the decision to take myself off Lamictal and ended up in the hospital with Stevens Johnson. I believe he's learned from that experience but I'm sure glad I didn't take the 'Doctor knows best' attitude. >
>
>> As for deities, i confess that I think doctors possess greater
> earthly if not heavenly powers than holy agents.
> Sorry, that's a religious thing, and yes that
> *is* tongue in cheek.
>
> As for the examination of the patient from the neck up -- again i trust the authority of
> 12 years of medical school to educate physicians
> regarding the anatomy of the body. Where they
> may lack expertise may be the drugs, resulting
> from the plethora of variety of drugs that now
> reach hundreds, sometimes for the same illness.
> In this case, collaboration with the patient
> becomes necessary, especially in psychiatry.
> And if you have a patient doctor and you yourself are patient, you can come through with good results.**Oh, yes I agree. You do have to collaborate. However,taking meds to suppress symptoms are only one way to go. Don't get me wrong, I bless my little handful of pills with every gulp, but I believe there could be a more holistic comprehensive approach. I've been helped tremendously by taking bioidentical hormones (which, BTW, estrogen and progesterone are precursors to serotonin and norep, but how common is this knowledge? My current pdoc, whom I like and respect alot, knew very little about the relationship between hormones and moods - and when you think of PMS, how can anyone NOT make that connection?).
I'm not ragging doctors but bless the good one's dedication. Unfortunately, medical technology has gotten more complex but mental health care is not progressing at the same rate as other health fields. Decisions for our care is more in the hands of big pharma companies and the dictates of insurance companies. There are talented and very well-meaning doctors who'se hands are tied when it comes to acting outside the box, whose licenses are removed for trying non-pharmaceutical methods, and who, incidentally, receive their research grant monies and educational scholarships from those same pharmaceutical companies. A tad conflict of interest.
You've obviously had good experiences with good doctors and you're very lucky. They're hard to find.
And just because someone gets 12 years of training doesn't mean they're good. We've had 12+ years of the Bush regime. But that's a Pandorra's box and I don't want to go there. Depending on what side you're on on that subject, the analogy is either irrelevant or highlights my point and I rest my case. - Barbara
>
> Squiggles
>
>
>
Posted by Squiggles on August 11, 2005, at 14:03:54
In reply to Re: Too little Lithium vs. just enough? experience » Squiggles, posted by barbaracat on August 11, 2005, at 13:58:23
Biodentical hormones? I've never heard of that
treatment. Is that something your doctor gave
you as an adjunct to your medication?Squiggles
Posted by barbaracat on August 11, 2005, at 14:42:06
In reply to Re: Too little Lithium vs. just enough? experience, posted by Squiggles on August 11, 2005, at 14:03:54
Unfortunately, not and I truly do not know why this crucial area is ignored. I'm 54 and postmenopausal. As I started going into menopause everything fell apart. My fibromyalgia hit full force, my meds stopped working, I had a melt-down and was hospitalized. Not one of my health team suggested hormones, just kept increasing the SSRIs and for a bipolar that's not a wise thing.
I went to a naturopathic clinic that specializes in natural hormones (as opposed to PremPro and the very dangerous synthetic ones). I took some saliva and blood tests and found that I was seriously low in all of the sex hormones. I was able to maintain a very stressful life prior to menopause, but when my hormones were depleted, I couldn't cope any longer. The well was dry.
So, I see a pdoc for my mood meds and a naturopath for most of my wellness and nutritional and hormonal upkeep. I use a cream that is formulated by a compounding pharmacy that has the right dosage of hormones. If I broke my arm or had bronchitis, a naturopath would not be the first on my list, but I find their care much more complete and effective for staying well.
This past winter, I was in the hospital again. Turns out that my now ex-naturopath (found a new one since) mistakenly ordered a compound adding to the cream that was blocking the conversion of progesterone to estrogen and hence, to thyroid hormone (estrogen is also necessary to make thyroxin). I was a miserable weepy panicked suicidal mess.
After a few weeks on the right levels, the difference was astounding. I tell this to my pdoc and she's somewhat interested, but by her own admission, does not know enough in this area to offer any help. This is so sad. When you think of how many people could be helped by digging a little further in areas that affect mood so profoundly, I think it's worth a bit more schooling. My pdoc sadly said they simply to do not get this kind of comprehensive training. It's all about learning about which drugs will suppress a symptom and not enough about what makes us well.
> Biodentical hormones? I've never heard of that
> treatment. Is that something your doctor gave
> you as an adjunct to your medication?
>
> Squiggles
Posted by Squiggles on August 11, 2005, at 14:57:35
In reply to Re: Too little Lithium vs. just enough? experience » Squiggles, posted by barbaracat on August 11, 2005, at 14:42:06
I know that hormones are very important
for mood disorders. Infact, my own dr.
has supplemented me with one for bipolar;
I also have a friend on whom he tried
some - unfortunately it did not do much
good, but from what you describe it sounds
like a very complicated mixture that has
to be done just right. You say you have
a naturopath who does that? I thought that
they were incapable of prescribing these
hormones (by law);Squiggles
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