![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 39 to 63 of 63. Go back in thread:
Posted by Dr. Bob on July 25, 2005, at 23:31:00
In reply to Re: Raving SSI and other Ravens:-) » KaraS, posted by barbaracat on July 25, 2005, at 16:50:54
> I imagine an employer could dig out the fact that you were on SSI but the info is definitely not easy to get at, even for yourself...
Sorry to interrupt, but I'd like to redirect follow-ups regarding SSI to Psycho-Babble Social. Here's a link:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/social/20050719/msgs/533556.html
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by Sabino on July 29, 2005, at 19:59:00
In reply to Re: Raving SSI and Li update » Sabino, posted by rod on July 25, 2005, at 6:10:09
Hi Rod and Barbara. Sorry I haven't responded to your posts earlier. I really haven't been logging in that much lately.
Hope you both are well. I'm still pleased with Li. Still experimenting with the amount I want to take too.
I do find that I laugh a lot more than I used to before starting Li, so that's definitely a good thing. And I haven't even been close to feeling well enough for a relationship in a number of years, but well, who knows on that front if this improvement holds up. All in all, I feel as close to normal as I have in many a year.
Not saying every day's a laughfest, just that things seem to be improved pretty much.
My concentration could use some improving, but at least I don't feel like killing myself every day.
Posted by barbaracat on July 30, 2005, at 14:51:52
In reply to Re: Raving SSI and Li update » rod, posted by Sabino on July 29, 2005, at 19:59:00
Hi Sabino,
Glad you're responding so well to Li!. I increased from 600 to 750mg and it was a good decision. I feel more calm and it's kept my micro dose of Cymbalta stable at 8mg. It was starting to creep up because I was feeling some stress and depression creeping in and as I raised the Cym I was feeling worse, as a good bipolar would. So I figured, lower the Cym and raise the Li and it worked. I have noticed a bit a weight gain - rats - but it's good incentive to move the bod.About concentration. I have a suggestion that might work. I was also feeling dulled and dumb and realized I hadn'et been taking my normal neuro nutrients that have all the cholines in them. Got some more and once again I feel much more cognitively sharp.
The ones I get are Neuro Optimizer by Jarrow. Not cheap but worth it. I get them through www.iherb.com which has great prices. This brand has all the cholines you'll need to optimize brain's acetylcholine stores. This one gets the BCat Seal of Approval (appropriate seal barking noises here). - Barbara
> Hi Rod and Barbara. Sorry I haven't responded to your posts earlier. I really haven't been logging in that much lately.
>
> Hope you both are well. I'm still pleased with Li. Still experimenting with the amount I want to take too.
>
> I do find that I laugh a lot more than I used to before starting Li, so that's definitely a good thing. And I haven't even been close to feeling well enough for a relationship in a number of years, but well, who knows on that front if this improvement holds up. All in all, I feel as close to normal as I have in many a year.
>
> Not saying every day's a laughfest, just that things seem to be improved pretty much.
>
> My concentration could use some improving, but at least I don't feel like killing myself every day.
Posted by Sabino on August 1, 2005, at 17:00:58
In reply to Re: Raving SSI and Li update » Sabino, posted by barbaracat on July 30, 2005, at 14:51:52
Hey BCat,
Thanks for the heads up on the Neuro Optimizer. Will definitely check into that. Been feeling like I've got a room temperature IQ, and oh lord, it's chilly in here.
Actually, speaking of cognition, work has really been problematic (programming, etc). In fact, I'm really wondering whether I can continue that. Seems I'm getting behinder and behinder. At a certain point, the humiliation factor comes into play. Still, the only thing I know how to do is program, and... hmmm. Turning into another whinefest. I actually left work today to avoid a meeting (my utter lack of progress would have been exposed).
May well have to follow your much appreciated advice on the SSI stuff. Trust me, I'm no malingerer. Just can't muster up sufficient concentration this last half year. The thing is, I used to be proud of my coding abilities. Now, I feel incompetent. Not a good feeling, and that's why I'm contemplating not continuing that. I just feel like I've accomplished precious little the past few weeks. I don't know what to do.
I'm glad you're feeling better with the increased Li and decreased Cym. I think I'm up to around 400 mgs of Li, and around 2.5 of Paxil daily.
Posted by barbaracat on August 1, 2005, at 21:55:55
In reply to Re: Raving SSI and Li update » barbaracat, posted by Sabino on August 1, 2005, at 17:00:58
Have you noticed this cognition thing since the Li or did it come on with the other symptoms? When I had to go on disability I was at a total block with my work. Couldn't conentrate, stressing from getting behinder, brain freeze and very emotional. I'd end up silently crying in my cube at least once a week. It was from total burnout mentally and physically.
But I know what you mean about not knowing what else to do. At this point I'd love to go back to a job I like that's lucrative because I feel I'm at a good place, but I DON'T want to go back to that world. Anything else requires years of training. It feels like a Catch-22 because if I go back to that stress I'll end up where I was. What I'd strongly recommend you do is look into your company's long-term disability rather than depending on the long-haul of SSI. You can get both, but your company's policy would start right away and give you 60% of your salary. You're required to apply for SSI anyway cause they'll want to get reimbursed from it. But see a lawyer. It won't cost you anything. and WARNING, if your company's long term insurer is Unum, watch out. They're slimy scum sucking dogs who recently got sued for bad practice.
Barbara
> Hey BCat,
>
> Thanks for the heads up on the Neuro Optimizer. Will definitely check into that. Been feeling like I've got a room temperature IQ, and oh lord, it's chilly in here.
>
> Actually, speaking of cognition, work has really been problematic (programming, etc). In fact, I'm really wondering whether I can continue that. Seems I'm getting behinder and behinder. At a certain point, the humiliation factor comes into play. Still, the only thing I know how to do is program, and... hmmm. Turning into another whinefest. I actually left work today to avoid a meeting (my utter lack of progress would have been exposed).
>
> May well have to follow your much appreciated advice on the SSI stuff. Trust me, I'm no malingerer. Just can't muster up sufficient concentration this last half year. The thing is, I used to be proud of my coding abilities. Now, I feel incompetent. Not a good feeling, and that's why I'm contemplating not continuing that. I just feel like I've accomplished precious little the past few weeks. I don't know what to do.
>
> I'm glad you're feeling better with the increased Li and decreased Cym. I think I'm up to around 400 mgs of Li, and around 2.5 of Paxil daily.
>
>
Posted by Sabino on August 4, 2005, at 9:13:53
In reply to Re: Raving SSI and Li update » Sabino, posted by barbaracat on August 1, 2005, at 21:55:55
Thanks yet again, Barbara. I've had memory attentional issues for years. Now throw concentration in to the mix, and all have worsened significantly the last couple of years.
My company does indeed have a long term disasbility (not through Unum... I believe it's called the Standard Insurance). Anyway, I will go that route first. I think they pay 60% of your salary for up to two years. Pretty darned good. I ought to qualify, as my issues are real and there's reams of documentation between my pdoc and PCP before him.
I completely relate to what you experienced at work. Couldn't concentrate, and then spiraled into worrying/stressing about the fact that I wasn't accomplishing anything.
I am now not working again as of yesterday. I emailed an attorney last night. Don't know how this'll all end, but I flat out cannot perform the tasks that my job required of me.
Now, back to the Li discussion... I'm up to around 450mgs a day now.
Barb, thanks ever so much for all the useful information.
> Have you noticed this cognition thing since the Li or did it come on with the other symptoms? When I had to go on disability I was at a total block with my work. Couldn't conentrate, stressing from getting behinder, brain freeze and very emotional. I'd end up silently crying in my cube at least once a week. It was from total burnout mentally and physically.
>
> But I know what you mean about not knowing what else to do. At this point I'd love to go back to a job I like that's lucrative because I feel I'm at a good place, but I DON'T want to go back to that world. Anything else requires years of training. It feels like a Catch-22 because if I go back to that stress I'll end up where I was. What I'd strongly recommend you do is look into your company's long-term disability rather than depending on the long-haul of SSI. You can get both, but your company's policy would start right away and give you 60% of your salary. You're required to apply for SSI anyway cause they'll want to get reimbursed from it. But see a lawyer. It won't cost you anything. and WARNING, if your company's long term insurer is Unum, watch out. They're slimy scum sucking dogs who recently got sued for bad practice.
>
> Barbara
>
>
> > Hey BCat,
> >
> > Thanks for the heads up on the Neuro Optimizer. Will definitely check into that. Been feeling like I've got a room temperature IQ, and oh lord, it's chilly in here.
> >
> > Actually, speaking of cognition, work has really been problematic (programming, etc). In fact, I'm really wondering whether I can continue that. Seems I'm getting behinder and behinder. At a certain point, the humiliation factor comes into play. Still, the only thing I know how to do is program, and... hmmm. Turning into another whinefest. I actually left work today to avoid a meeting (my utter lack of progress would have been exposed).
> >
> > May well have to follow your much appreciated advice on the SSI stuff. Trust me, I'm no malingerer. Just can't muster up sufficient concentration this last half year. The thing is, I used to be proud of my coding abilities. Now, I feel incompetent. Not a good feeling, and that's why I'm contemplating not continuing that. I just feel like I've accomplished precious little the past few weeks. I don't know what to do.
> >
> > I'm glad you're feeling better with the increased Li and decreased Cym. I think I'm up to around 400 mgs of Li, and around 2.5 of Paxil daily.
> >
> >
>
>
Posted by barbaracat on August 4, 2005, at 11:36:01
In reply to Sabino » barbaracat, posted by Sabino on August 4, 2005, at 9:13:53
Sabino,
Try those Neuro Optimizers. They really help big time with cognition. As I mentioned, I felt a bit of dulling with my recent lithium increase and taking them helped.One more thing about long term disability. Make sure you get a copy of the requirements from your HR dept. I did not qualify because I went out on disability 1 week too soon. I knew they had a one year waiting period, but I didn't know the year didn't officially start until I'd been there 6 months. My leave started one week shy of being there 1-1/2 years and I was disqualified. But that's Unum. It would have been nice to have those two years of 60% instead of nothing while I was waiting to be approve for SSI. So check the fine print and talk to an HR person and lawyer before signing anything. Money problems are stressful too.
Good luck, my friend. It's a big step towards healing when you don't have the project deadline dragons breathing down your neck. - Barbara
> Thanks yet again, Barbara. I've had memory attentional issues for years. Now throw concentration in to the mix, and all have worsened significantly the last couple of years.
>
> My company does indeed have a long term disasbility (not through Unum... I believe it's called the Standard Insurance). Anyway, I will go that route first. I think they pay 60% of your salary for up to two years. Pretty darned good. I ought to qualify, as my issues are real and there's reams of documentation between my pdoc and PCP before him.
>
> I completely relate to what you experienced at work. Couldn't concentrate, and then spiraled into worrying/stressing about the fact that I wasn't accomplishing anything.
>
> I am now not working again as of yesterday. I emailed an attorney last night. Don't know how this'll all end, but I flat out cannot perform the tasks that my job required of me.
>
> Now, back to the Li discussion... I'm up to around 450mgs a day now.
>
> Barb, thanks ever so much for all the useful information.
>
> > Have you noticed this cognition thing since the Li or did it come on with the other symptoms? When I had to go on disability I was at a total block with my work. Couldn't conentrate, stressing from getting behinder, brain freeze and very emotional. I'd end up silently crying in my cube at least once a week. It was from total burnout mentally and physically.
> >
> > But I know what you mean about not knowing what else to do. At this point I'd love to go back to a job I like that's lucrative because I feel I'm at a good place, but I DON'T want to go back to that world. Anything else requires years of training. It feels like a Catch-22 because if I go back to that stress I'll end up where I was. What I'd strongly recommend you do is look into your company's long-term disability rather than depending on the long-haul of SSI. You can get both, but your company's policy would start right away and give you 60% of your salary. You're required to apply for SSI anyway cause they'll want to get reimbursed from it. But see a lawyer. It won't cost you anything. and WARNING, if your company's long term insurer is Unum, watch out. They're slimy scum sucking dogs who recently got sued for bad practice.
> >
> > Barbara
> >
> >
> > > Hey BCat,
> > >
> > > Thanks for the heads up on the Neuro Optimizer. Will definitely check into that. Been feeling like I've got a room temperature IQ, and oh lord, it's chilly in here.
> > >
> > > Actually, speaking of cognition, work has really been problematic (programming, etc). In fact, I'm really wondering whether I can continue that. Seems I'm getting behinder and behinder. At a certain point, the humiliation factor comes into play. Still, the only thing I know how to do is program, and... hmmm. Turning into another whinefest. I actually left work today to avoid a meeting (my utter lack of progress would have been exposed).
> > >
> > > May well have to follow your much appreciated advice on the SSI stuff. Trust me, I'm no malingerer. Just can't muster up sufficient concentration this last half year. The thing is, I used to be proud of my coding abilities. Now, I feel incompetent. Not a good feeling, and that's why I'm contemplating not continuing that. I just feel like I've accomplished precious little the past few weeks. I don't know what to do.
> > >
> > > I'm glad you're feeling better with the increased Li and decreased Cym. I think I'm up to around 400 mgs of Li, and around 2.5 of Paxil daily.
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
Posted by Sabino on August 10, 2005, at 19:50:35
In reply to Re: Lithium etc. » Sabino, posted by barbaracat on August 4, 2005, at 11:36:01
Hi again. Bought the Neuro Optimizers, and I don't mind telling you, I am now The Smartest Man Alive!
Maybe a little overkill, but I do like them too.
My newest addition is Lamictal (currently 25mgs for the first two weeks; then 50, 100).
What I've noticed so far is that I feel MORE depressed. Can Lam do that at first, and then get better. I'm hoping that's the case. I've read that Lam is a bit more activating, and that it has decent AD properties.
Anyway, can anybody say that it worsens depression at first and then improves it?
Another issue: I thought it was a good idea to increase my life insurance policy, and the girl at the insurance agency didn't even ask about mental health issues, but when I had the screening later, they asked, and once I opened that Pandora's box, I tried to minimize what I've gone through, but gave them enough red meat, that I'm sure they'll find out I put lipstick on that pig.
There's no chance they'll approve the policy. Oh well, it seemed like a good idea at the time.
That's where I'm at; added Lamictal, and I'm not liking the feeling so far. Sometimes a guy just feeled doomed.
> Sabino,
> Try those Neuro Optimizers. They really help big time with cognition. As I mentioned, I felt a bit of dulling with my recent lithium increase and taking them helped.
>
> One more thing about long term disability. Make sure you get a copy of the requirements from your HR dept. I did not qualify because I went out on disability 1 week too soon. I knew they had a one year waiting period, but I didn't know the year didn't officially start until I'd been there 6 months. My leave started one week shy of being there 1-1/2 years and I was disqualified. But that's Unum. It would have been nice to have those two years of 60% instead of nothing while I was waiting to be approve for SSI. So check the fine print and talk to an HR person and lawyer before signing anything. Money problems are stressful too.
>
> Good luck, my friend. It's a big step towards healing when you don't have the project deadline dragons breathing down your neck. - Barbara
>
>
> > Thanks yet again, Barbara. I've had memory attentional issues for years. Now throw concentration in to the mix, and all have worsened significantly the last couple of years.
> >
> > My company does indeed have a long term disasbility (not through Unum... I believe it's called the Standard Insurance). Anyway, I will go that route first. I think they pay 60% of your salary for up to two years. Pretty darned good. I ought to qualify, as my issues are real and there's reams of documentation between my pdoc and PCP before him.
> >
> > I completely relate to what you experienced at work. Couldn't concentrate, and then spiraled into worrying/stressing about the fact that I wasn't accomplishing anything.
> >
> > I am now not working again as of yesterday. I emailed an attorney last night. Don't know how this'll all end, but I flat out cannot perform the tasks that my job required of me.
> >
> > Now, back to the Li discussion... I'm up to around 450mgs a day now.
> >
> > Barb, thanks ever so much for all the useful information.
> >
> > > Have you noticed this cognition thing since the Li or did it come on with the other symptoms? When I had to go on disability I was at a total block with my work. Couldn't conentrate, stressing from getting behinder, brain freeze and very emotional. I'd end up silently crying in my cube at least once a week. It was from total burnout mentally and physically.
> > >
> > > But I know what you mean about not knowing what else to do. At this point I'd love to go back to a job I like that's lucrative because I feel I'm at a good place, but I DON'T want to go back to that world. Anything else requires years of training. It feels like a Catch-22 because if I go back to that stress I'll end up where I was. What I'd strongly recommend you do is look into your company's long-term disability rather than depending on the long-haul of SSI. You can get both, but your company's policy would start right away and give you 60% of your salary. You're required to apply for SSI anyway cause they'll want to get reimbursed from it. But see a lawyer. It won't cost you anything. and WARNING, if your company's long term insurer is Unum, watch out. They're slimy scum sucking dogs who recently got sued for bad practice.
> > >
> > > Barbara
> > >
> > >
> > > > Hey BCat,
> > > >
> > > > Thanks for the heads up on the Neuro Optimizer. Will definitely check into that. Been feeling like I've got a room temperature IQ, and oh lord, it's chilly in here.
> > > >
> > > > Actually, speaking of cognition, work has really been problematic (programming, etc). In fact, I'm really wondering whether I can continue that. Seems I'm getting behinder and behinder. At a certain point, the humiliation factor comes into play. Still, the only thing I know how to do is program, and... hmmm. Turning into another whinefest. I actually left work today to avoid a meeting (my utter lack of progress would have been exposed).
> > > >
> > > > May well have to follow your much appreciated advice on the SSI stuff. Trust me, I'm no malingerer. Just can't muster up sufficient concentration this last half year. The thing is, I used to be proud of my coding abilities. Now, I feel incompetent. Not a good feeling, and that's why I'm contemplating not continuing that. I just feel like I've accomplished precious little the past few weeks. I don't know what to do.
> > > >
> > > > I'm glad you're feeling better with the increased Li and decreased Cym. I think I'm up to around 400 mgs of Li, and around 2.5 of Paxil daily.
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
Posted by Squiggles on August 10, 2005, at 20:01:38
In reply to Too little Lithium vs. just enough? experiences, posted by barbaracat on July 13, 2005, at 16:34:05
It doesn't matter how you feel -
your doctor will decide whether
the symptoms you report are worth
changing your treatment. Doctors
can be like deities; stick to their
advice, be honest, show respect
and don't be a smart-*ss (like me)
and you will fare well;Squiggles
Posted by Sabino on August 11, 2005, at 7:30:19
In reply to Re: Too little Lithium vs. just enough? experience, posted by Squiggles on August 10, 2005, at 20:01:38
Well, I think it DOES matter how I feel. In fact, my whole relationship with the doc is all about how I feel. If I were taking a med that made me feel like garbage, and the doc just wanted to keep raising the dose, clearly we'd not be on the same page. I'm willing to ride out some side effects for a reasonable period of time, but there comes a time where you throw in the towel on a given med.
Not saying I'm at that point with Lamictal; I just started it. What I think I'll do is try taking it at night instead of daytime.
I do respect my doctor. I respect his training, and his experience, but would not hesitate to fire him if he had one of those god complexes you speak of.
I want somebody who feels like it DOES matter how I feel, and actually listens when I relate how a drug is effecting me. I'm fortunate that I have such a doc right now.
> It doesn't matter how you feel -
> your doctor will decide whether
> the symptoms you report are worth
> changing your treatment. Doctors
> can be like deities; stick to their
> advice, be honest, show respect
> and don't be a smart-*ss (like me)
> and you will fare well;
>
> Squiggles
>
Posted by Squiggles on August 11, 2005, at 8:04:58
In reply to Lithium and Lamictal » Squiggles, posted by Sabino on August 11, 2005, at 7:30:19
Good luck ith the Lamictal -- you
are right of course, there should
be good communication beteen you and
your doctor. I just don't see a
necessary connection beteen ho you
feel and that one dr. can do something
different from another necessarily -
and the search could be endless.As for firing your dr., maybe it's
a Canadian thing, but barring gross
negligence, i find it unconscionable -
just my quirk.sorry about the doubleuus' my keyboard
is going.Squiggles
Posted by Sabino on August 11, 2005, at 11:10:22
In reply to Re: Lithium and Lamictal, posted by Squiggles on August 11, 2005, at 8:04:58
Hi Squiggles,
I did not mean to sound confrontational in my previous post.
As to sticking with a doctor with whom you have no rapport, and that you feel is intransigent in their approach, I see no problem at all with discontinuing the business relationship, and certainly don't find it unconscionable. I'm a consumer, and I'm paying good money for his/her services. I do believe that different pdocs have different approaches.
I happen to like mine right now, and am in no way displeased with him, just talking hypothetically.
To me, someone doesn't have to be grossly negligent for me to sever our ties. I don't put these guys on some sort of pedestal.
If the guy that mows my lawn does a decent job of it, but is in some manner rude, I'm gonna get a different landscape guy. Same with pdocs. I wouldn't break ties on a whim, but if (and this is not the case) our visits were unpleasant, and far more importantly, if he kept barking up the wrong tree, again and again, in terms of med choices, in spite of me telling him that the stuff wasn't working, I'd have no choice but to seek help elsewhere.
To each his own though. Perhaps our approaches to care are entirely different in that as you stated, you are Canadian, and that is nationalized, yes?
Posted by Squiggles on August 11, 2005, at 11:30:11
In reply to Sabino, posted by Sabino on August 11, 2005, at 11:10:22
Yes, "nationalized", though i recently
read the news that the two-tier system
will become legal if not mainstream.The US is very litigious, and that may
be because of your history which emphasizes
individual rights and freedoms and protects
them by recourse to law; i suppose that
might be necessary when the provision of
these rights is not as generous.Yes, as you say if your doctor is notoriously
bad then switch. However you may need to be an optimist and a gambling man to think that the next
doctor will be better. Furthermore, it is not
the most civic-minded approach, when the homeless
and the underprivileged are lying on the street
dying in triple digit weather, without even the
therapeutic advantage of a bottle of water.
Squiggles
Posted by barbaracat on August 11, 2005, at 12:08:47
In reply to My new potion: Lithium and Lamictal, posted by Sabino on August 10, 2005, at 19:50:35
Sabino,
How much Lam are you taking? Remember to go slooooowwww. I didn't really like Lamictal, but I was in such a bad depression that nothing was making much of a dent. It didn't really make me more depressed (with 600mg Lithium) but I felt kind of agitated and I equate anxiety and agitation with my form of depression.It let up a bit and I ended up enjoying Lamictal after a while - it was always activating and I always felt on the verge of hypomania, especially with each new increase. But I eventually had to stop because of a pre-rash condition. Besides, I prefer a more calm focused feeling and I sure didn't get that with Lam.
I'm continued to be impressed with the Neuro Optimizers. All the state of the art cholines are in there. Do you take fish oil? I really like Carlson's Finest liquid - it tastes good and you need at least 1 tablespoon a day.
All these things, including the lithium, are not merely putting bandaides on your mood problems. They're making cell membranes more flexible, growing more dendrites and increasing nerve growth factor - making your brain healthier. It would be interesting, now that you're out of the stress of working for a while, to see how fish oil, Neuto Optimizer and lithium work. If Lamictal makes you feel weird, maybe it's not for you. Of course, I'm not the best person to ask since I had such a dangerous reaction to it. - Barbara
ps I hope you're getting your nutrients from iherb. Those things are outrageous elsewhere.
Posted by Bill LL on August 11, 2005, at 12:33:44
In reply to My new potion: Lithium and Lamictal, posted by Sabino on August 10, 2005, at 19:50:35
You mentioned your concern with the mental health questions on the life insurance application.
Generally, most insurance companies will charge higher premiums if you have depression. This is especially true if you are buying individual coverage.
It's hard to falsify the information because companies require that you give them the names of your doctors who they then contact.
Although I don't know this for certain, I think that you can get a better rate if your diagnosis is "anxiety" rather than "depression". Two years a go I told my doctor that I think that my main symptom was anxiety rather than depression and asked him if he would change my diagnosis in case an insurance company contacted him. He said he would.
Posted by barbaracat on August 11, 2005, at 12:43:03
In reply to Re: Too little Lithium vs. just enough? experience, posted by Squiggles on August 10, 2005, at 20:01:38
'Fraid I can't agree, Squiggles. I live with me and I'm a better judge of how a med is making me feel, rather than someone I see for less than 1/2 hour every few weeks. I'm willing to respect their knowledge and skill, but when my comments about intense itching from Lamictal didn't cause any concern and eventually turned into the rash my confidence in my pdoc took a nosedive.
No human is a diety and if I didn't take a very proactive part in my therapy, I shudder to think where I'd be now. One of my biggest beefs with them is that the body seems to stop at the neck. Head meds. Little attention is given to possible hormonal imbalances or the many other causes of mood disorders. And even the best docs I've had over the years made some whopper poor decisions. But you're a smart cookie and perhaps you were just being tongue in cheek? - BarbaraCat
> It doesn't matter how you feel -
> your doctor will decide whether
> the symptoms you report are worth
> changing your treatment. Doctors
> can be like deities; stick to their
> advice, be honest, show respect
> and don't be a smart-*ss (like me)
> and you will fare well;
>
> Squiggles
>
Posted by Squiggles on August 11, 2005, at 12:57:14
In reply to Re: Too little Lithium vs. just enough? experience » Squiggles, posted by barbaracat on August 11, 2005, at 12:43:03
> 'Fraid I can't agree, Squiggles. I live with me and I'm a better judge of how a med is making me feel, rather than someone I see for less than 1/2 hour every few weeks.
)Granted, but you do report how you feel don't
you?I'm willing to respect their knowledge and skill, but when my comments about intense itching from Lamictal didn't cause any concern and eventually turned into the rash my confidence in my pdoc took a nosedive.
)Well, that depends on whether your rash would
have gone away or not and how long and who knew
better about that you or your dr.;
>
> No human is a diety and if I didn't take a very proactive part in my therapy, I shudder to think where I'd be now. One of my biggest beefs with them is that the body seems to stop at the neck. Head meds. Little attention is given to possible hormonal imbalances or the many other causes of mood disorders. And even the best docs I've had over the years made some whopper poor decisions. But you're a smart cookie and perhaps you were just being tongue in cheek?
)No - not tongue in cheek; All doctors make
mistakes and the longer you are under the care
the greater the chances. As for deities, i
confess that I think doctors possess greater
earthly if not heavenly powers than holy agents.
Sorry, that's a religious thing, and yes that
*is* tongue in cheek.As for the examination of the patient from the neck up -- again i trust the authority of
12 years of medical school to educate physicians
regarding the anatomy of the body. Where they
may lack expertise may be the drugs, resulting
from the plethora of variety of drugs that now
reach hundreds, sometimes for the same illness.
In this case, collaboration with the patient
becomes necessary, especially in psychiatry.
And if you have a patient doctor and you yourself are patient, you can come through with good results.Squiggles
Posted by barbaracat on August 11, 2005, at 13:58:23
In reply to Re: Too little Lithium vs. just enough? experience, posted by Squiggles on August 11, 2005, at 12:57:14
This may prove to be an interesting thread, so here goes:
>
> )Granted, but you do report how you feel don't
> you?**Of course. The current state of things in mental health is trial and error with getting the right meds. My input is hopefully important enough to my doc so he/she can best tailor things.
>
> I'm willing to respect their knowledge and skill, but when my comments about intense itching from Lamictal didn't cause any concern and eventually turned into the rash my confidence in my pdoc took a nosedive.
>
> )Well, that depends on whether your rash would
> have gone away or not and how long and who knew
> better about that you or your dr.;**Any skin condition that presents itself after taking Lamictal is reason to stop taking it. After being very sick in bed for 5 weeks I had plenty of time to learn about Stevens Johnson Syndrome. You don't wait for it to go away and once you have it, you're sensitized for life. My doctor did not know this. His ooops, made a mistake had a very big impact on My life.
My doctor obviously did not know that intense itching is an inflammatory condition, a prodromal state whereby if the allergan is not removed, the condition can progress on to Stevens Johnson Syndrome. He did not suggest lowering the dose and did not make the connection that I was in a pre-rash state. His comment was 'Gee, maybe you're finally becoming allergic to your cats.' I made the decision to take myself off Lamictal and ended up in the hospital with Stevens Johnson. I believe he's learned from that experience but I'm sure glad I didn't take the 'Doctor knows best' attitude. >
>
>> As for deities, i confess that I think doctors possess greater
> earthly if not heavenly powers than holy agents.
> Sorry, that's a religious thing, and yes that
> *is* tongue in cheek.
>
> As for the examination of the patient from the neck up -- again i trust the authority of
> 12 years of medical school to educate physicians
> regarding the anatomy of the body. Where they
> may lack expertise may be the drugs, resulting
> from the plethora of variety of drugs that now
> reach hundreds, sometimes for the same illness.
> In this case, collaboration with the patient
> becomes necessary, especially in psychiatry.
> And if you have a patient doctor and you yourself are patient, you can come through with good results.**Oh, yes I agree. You do have to collaborate. However,taking meds to suppress symptoms are only one way to go. Don't get me wrong, I bless my little handful of pills with every gulp, but I believe there could be a more holistic comprehensive approach. I've been helped tremendously by taking bioidentical hormones (which, BTW, estrogen and progesterone are precursors to serotonin and norep, but how common is this knowledge? My current pdoc, whom I like and respect alot, knew very little about the relationship between hormones and moods - and when you think of PMS, how can anyone NOT make that connection?).
I'm not ragging doctors but bless the good one's dedication. Unfortunately, medical technology has gotten more complex but mental health care is not progressing at the same rate as other health fields. Decisions for our care is more in the hands of big pharma companies and the dictates of insurance companies. There are talented and very well-meaning doctors who'se hands are tied when it comes to acting outside the box, whose licenses are removed for trying non-pharmaceutical methods, and who, incidentally, receive their research grant monies and educational scholarships from those same pharmaceutical companies. A tad conflict of interest.
You've obviously had good experiences with good doctors and you're very lucky. They're hard to find.
And just because someone gets 12 years of training doesn't mean they're good. We've had 12+ years of the Bush regime. But that's a Pandorra's box and I don't want to go there. Depending on what side you're on on that subject, the analogy is either irrelevant or highlights my point and I rest my case. - Barbara
>
> Squiggles
>
>
>
Posted by Squiggles on August 11, 2005, at 14:03:54
In reply to Re: Too little Lithium vs. just enough? experience » Squiggles, posted by barbaracat on August 11, 2005, at 13:58:23
Biodentical hormones? I've never heard of that
treatment. Is that something your doctor gave
you as an adjunct to your medication?Squiggles
Posted by barbaracat on August 11, 2005, at 14:42:06
In reply to Re: Too little Lithium vs. just enough? experience, posted by Squiggles on August 11, 2005, at 14:03:54
Unfortunately, not and I truly do not know why this crucial area is ignored. I'm 54 and postmenopausal. As I started going into menopause everything fell apart. My fibromyalgia hit full force, my meds stopped working, I had a melt-down and was hospitalized. Not one of my health team suggested hormones, just kept increasing the SSRIs and for a bipolar that's not a wise thing.
I went to a naturopathic clinic that specializes in natural hormones (as opposed to PremPro and the very dangerous synthetic ones). I took some saliva and blood tests and found that I was seriously low in all of the sex hormones. I was able to maintain a very stressful life prior to menopause, but when my hormones were depleted, I couldn't cope any longer. The well was dry.
So, I see a pdoc for my mood meds and a naturopath for most of my wellness and nutritional and hormonal upkeep. I use a cream that is formulated by a compounding pharmacy that has the right dosage of hormones. If I broke my arm or had bronchitis, a naturopath would not be the first on my list, but I find their care much more complete and effective for staying well.
This past winter, I was in the hospital again. Turns out that my now ex-naturopath (found a new one since) mistakenly ordered a compound adding to the cream that was blocking the conversion of progesterone to estrogen and hence, to thyroid hormone (estrogen is also necessary to make thyroxin). I was a miserable weepy panicked suicidal mess.
After a few weeks on the right levels, the difference was astounding. I tell this to my pdoc and she's somewhat interested, but by her own admission, does not know enough in this area to offer any help. This is so sad. When you think of how many people could be helped by digging a little further in areas that affect mood so profoundly, I think it's worth a bit more schooling. My pdoc sadly said they simply to do not get this kind of comprehensive training. It's all about learning about which drugs will suppress a symptom and not enough about what makes us well.
> Biodentical hormones? I've never heard of that
> treatment. Is that something your doctor gave
> you as an adjunct to your medication?
>
> Squiggles
Posted by Squiggles on August 11, 2005, at 14:57:35
In reply to Re: Too little Lithium vs. just enough? experience » Squiggles, posted by barbaracat on August 11, 2005, at 14:42:06
I know that hormones are very important
for mood disorders. Infact, my own dr.
has supplemented me with one for bipolar;
I also have a friend on whom he tried
some - unfortunately it did not do much
good, but from what you describe it sounds
like a very complicated mixture that has
to be done just right. You say you have
a naturopath who does that? I thought that
they were incapable of prescribing these
hormones (by law);Squiggles
Posted by barbaracat on August 11, 2005, at 15:21:50
In reply to Re: Too little Lithium vs. just enough? experience, posted by Squiggles on August 11, 2005, at 14:57:35
> I know that hormones are very important
> for mood disorders. Infact, my own dr.
> has supplemented me with one for bipolar;**What did he supplement you with? That is encouraging to know some doctors are doing this.
> You say you have a naturopath who does that? I thought that they were incapable of prescribing these hormones (by law);
>
**No, they can prescribe compounded hormones. I don't know about the synthetic conjugated ones that would be considered a prescription medicine. They can also prescribe things like thyroid hormones. I think it depends on if the med is a controlled substance.As far as complicated, saliva tests do a good job at pinpointing what's going on, but it takes a skilled doctor to interpret those numbers into an optimal formulation. Retesting is important too. As is a good compounding pharmacy with knowledgable staff. I use Women's International Pharmacy and they're great and willing to offer advice and information. It's not really rocket science. A little tweaking here and there based on the results of the tests. But so much prescribing, even with the bioidentical hormones, is done blindly with no base levels to go on.
Just as an example, I was going to a gynocologist as I started into menopause and he did not do any tests - said they basically did not tell him anything useful. So I went on the standard typical 'natural' hormones, as natural as they get from an HMO office. A few months later I started hemorraghing and it turned out I was getting too much estrogen, a typical state of affairs in perimenopause. I ended up with a pre-cancerous condition, a lovely scrape job, and a firm conviction that there had to be a better way than the cookie-cutter approach.
That's when I realized that for something as personalized and delicate as hormonal balance, it's important to find someone you can work with who knows what they're doing. Just because they're a naturopath who specializes in it isn't an automatic seal of approval, as evidenced by my former doctor's putting the wrong compound in.
I think I have a good one now, but I've learned that I have to keep on top of my own health. These people are busy, overworked, and human and make mistakes. I'll admit to having more than my share of weird medical mishaps but it's taught me some good lessons. What I do find hard is when I'm feeling whacked out, depressed, whatever, to keep close tabs. I just want to give over into someone's care and not think about it and trust. But I've had my own experiences and know many health care providers who share and encourage my caution. - BCat
Posted by Squiggles on August 11, 2005, at 15:42:26
In reply to Re: Too little Lithium vs. just enough? experience » Squiggles, posted by barbaracat on August 11, 2005, at 15:21:50
I'm sorry you had a hard time. I hope you
will be better soon. If you can't get
the hormonal balance right, and you were
a friend of mine, i would suggest that
you ask your dr. for a referral to
an endocrinologist.Good luck Barbara.
Squiggles
Posted by barbaracat on August 11, 2005, at 17:55:38
In reply to Re: Too little Lithium vs. just enough? experience, posted by Squiggles on August 11, 2005, at 15:42:26
Dear Squiggles,
I am fine now, really. The only thing wrong at this point is I tripped while walking my brother's dogs and have a cracked sternum and sprained knee. Oh well, I get to lay around and read mystery novels without guilt and let my husband wait on me.But the other stuff is better than ever. I admit that for most of my life I was truly miserable and have had more than my share of challenges. But everything changed ever since I realized I was bipolar and not unipolar and started on lithium 3 years ago. Everything changed. My antidepressant, Cymbalta, works at a teeny dose. My thyroid medication is working. I'm on the right dose of hormones. But I had to do alot of researching and being very proactive with my healing because I simply was not getting the care I needed from the supposed experts.
I haven't had much luck with endocrinologists on the whole and I've seen quite a few. Their modus operandi is primarily using the synthetic hormones and it's hard to argue with their mind set.
Yes, it's been a challenge finding the right set of doctors, naturopaths, spiritual teachers, exercise, diet, etc., but I think I'm on the right track and feel better than I have since I can remember. My symptoms are rather complex because I'm bipolar-I as well as being hypothyroid as well as having fibromyalgia. But who knows what causes what - they all might be related. All I know is I'm grateful I didn't give up and kept searching to try to understand and heal the terrible misery I was in.
Thanks for your listening and support. I guess my point I was belaboring is to never give up when it comes to our personal wellbeing. When we have that 'something's not right' feeling with whatever we're going through, it's best to honor our inner wisdeom and keep searching. I'm glad I did and I'm glad I'm a bit of a rebel and simply ignore doctor's advice when it doesn't feel right for me. Good luck to you too. Feeling good is soooo much preferable to feeling like crappy, you know? Take care. Barbara
'm sorry you had a hard time. I hope you
> will be better soon. If you can't get
> the hormonal balance right, and you were
> a friend of mine, i would suggest that
> you ask your dr. for a referral to
> an endocrinologist.
>
> Good luck Barbara.
>
> Squiggles
>
Posted by Squiggles on August 11, 2005, at 17:59:35
In reply to Re: Too little Lithium vs. just enough? experience » Squiggles, posted by barbaracat on August 11, 2005, at 17:55:38
:-)
This is the end of the thread.
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