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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by Shyla on September 16, 2004, at 16:37:58
In reply to Re: Effexor Withdrawal Highly Overrated, posted by scruff on September 16, 2004, at 14:51:47
Scruff, it most definately could be the Wellbutrin that is causing your agitation and irritation. My husband was on it for a while, and he was unbearable! Every little thing set him off. We were told that some folks just don't respond well to the dopimine drugs. I have just started taking it with the hope of offsetting the lack of libido from the Effexor XR. I don't experience agitation - yet.
S
Posted by corafree on September 16, 2004, at 17:28:37
In reply to Re: Effexor Withdrawal Highly Overrated » scruff, posted by Shyla on September 16, 2004, at 16:37:58
I was tiring easily on Effexor because my daily follow-up dose was not taken at the right time, and my thyroid med was too low. Now I take 75mcg thyroid med and am doing very well on Eff-XR 150 upon waking and 75 about 3p in afternoon. JUST SO YA KNOW ... cf
Posted by scruff on September 16, 2004, at 17:39:37
In reply to Re: Effexor Withdrawal Highly Overrated » scruff, posted by Shyla on September 16, 2004, at 16:37:58
Shyla,
Darn - that's what my doc said today on the phone in the middle of a Hpyerattack of SOMETHING. Oh well.
I'm so tired of switching meds. I sill think effexor withdrawal is involved in elevated mood.Anyway -After a day on the cieling, i'm jusy tired enough to be somehwat calm.
Thanks for your input - I'll let you know If I switch again.
Appaernetly the MED in the wings is Remiron ( sp?), Time to search the web again!
Peace,
Posted by salina on September 16, 2004, at 17:42:17
In reply to Re: Anyone had success on Effexor XR?, posted by Shyla on September 16, 2004, at 8:01:53
hi. i'm new here and have been reading everyone's postings. it's so good to know there's others. i was on effexor last year for about 6 months and i felt great. the dr. said i had a reactional depression from a stay in the hospital last year. i got off of it in april this year and although i did get sick and stuff while getting off, i was able to and was fine til this august. just about 3 weeks ago i started having these depressed feelings again along with anxiety so i went back on the effexor (37.5 mg, last time i was on 75 mg). within 1-1 1/2 weeks i felt better. about a week after feeling better i started feeling junk again so asked the dr if i could go up to 75 mg. started taking that last friday, and started feeling sick and stuff again. plus having a lot more anxiety and difficulty sleeping, which i only have getting on the meds. i was just wondering if anyone else got off the meds and back on and if the feelings went away again the second time, or did you have to up your dosage to something higher then the first time? feeling so junky... thanks for any comments, salina
Posted by corafree on September 16, 2004, at 17:47:29
In reply to Re: Anyone had success on Effexor XR? » Parks, posted by SLICK on September 15, 2004, at 21:34:46
Yes, totally. 150mg awakening and 75mg 3pm and also increased my thyroid med to 75(Ithinkmcg). cf
Posted by fork on September 17, 2004, at 5:48:40
In reply to Re: Anyone had success on Effexor XR?, posted by corafree on September 16, 2004, at 17:47:29
Hi, I just started effexor xr (47 year old male with depression and anxiety, otherwise good health), I am 2 weeks into it, starting with a week at 37.5 then 75mg. In the distant past I have taken Celexa and could never get past a jittery nasuea like feeling. I have been taking lorazepam (atavan?)0.5mg as needed for years.I may go months without it and then I may go a long strech where I take several times a day, as many as 3 times daily. I have had depression issues for over 25 years and dealt with them with by self medicating using weed (very limited a few times a year to "clear " my head) and alcohol very often, including binge drinking to escape the reality of my depression (which made me feel more depressed afterwards, but I continued anyway, seemed like the only to feel happy). Recently due to some extremely stressful situations in my life I sank into the worst depression of my life to the point where I couldn't function and it was destroying my life. With the support of my wonderful wife, and realizing I couldn't "go it alone" any longer I finally started therapy a 5 weeks ago. I still was not willing to take the step to going on anti-depressants. The therapy began to help me see things differently. I then on my medical doctor and therapist advise I started effexor xr. I was very nervous about it (even more so after I found this message board and read some of the bad experiences). I was afraid of sexual side effects and becoming a emotionless zombie. For me, I felt positive effects within the first week, could have been the therapy or maybe even a placebo effect just from starting something new, either way I was feeling releaf from my depression. I did feel a little wierd at first kind of a slight "stoned" feeling but that passed within a few days. I also was sleeping alot in the daytime(I also do that when I am depressed) so I began taking the effexor xr before going to bed, that seemed to clear up my daytime sleepiness. I had an interesting sexual side effect, not the one I feared, I have been experiencing a mild delay in reaching climax which for me(and my wife) is a enjoyable side effect. One side effect I am having trouble with is I can't sleep more than 5 or 6 hours at night. Two weeks in to the effexor xr, and 5 weeks of therapy I feel so much better. I still have a lot of bad situations going on in my life, but they aren't crushing me like before. So far I am very happy with the effexor. I also have stopped drinking, which I didn't think was possible, but I strongly reccomend it if it's messing your life up, or your self medicating. I don't really have the desire to drink now. As long as I don't have problems with the effexor I intend to stay with it. My doctor advised me that this isn't a life sentence, but when I am ready to go off effexor it will be a slow process and warned me not to try to stop alone. I don't ever want to go back to the nightmare I was in. This drug may not be for everyone but for me it's been a lifesaver. I welcome any comments and I will post ever now and then with updates to my experience,good or bad.
Posted by Shyla on September 17, 2004, at 8:55:38
In reply to Re: Anyone had success on Effexor XR?, posted by fork on September 17, 2004, at 5:48:40
Fork, you might ask your doc about Gabatril as a sleep aid. It puts you into the deep delta-wave sleep. I tried that alone at first, but found I was still waking up after 4 or 5 hours. Now I take 5 mgs of Ambien to put me to sleep, and 4 mgs of Gabatril to keep me asleep. It has worked very well for me. I'm happy to hear you are doing better. Keep up the good work!
Posted by Shyla on September 17, 2004, at 9:47:56
In reply to Re: Anyone had success on Effexor XR?, posted by salina on September 16, 2004, at 17:42:17
Salina, my experience is that after a few weeks, those "icky" feelings go away. Then my emotions stabilized. Good luck!
Posted by Shyla on September 17, 2004, at 9:53:19
In reply to Re: Effexor Withdrawal Highly Overratedshyla, posted by scruff on September 16, 2004, at 17:39:37
I used to be on Remeron. If you want guaranteed good night's sleep, that's the drug of choice. The problem I had was in order to offset the sleepiness, my doc presribed Ritalin. That was working pretty good. Then the insurance co. decided that the use of Ritalin was not a prescribed use, and wouldn't cover the cost any longer. It's expensive stuff! Hence, the switch to Effexor. Another word of advice, patience with these drugs is important. Some need time to actually take effect. If you switch around too quickly, you may not know the full extent of the benefit. S
Posted by Shyla on September 17, 2004, at 9:55:43
In reply to Re: Effexor Withdrawal Highly Overrated - Thyroid, posted by corafree on September 16, 2004, at 17:28:37
Glad to hear that Cora. It does take a bit of responsibility on our part to try different things. Good for you!
Posted by Bubblehead on September 17, 2004, at 11:08:28
In reply to Re: Anyone had success on Effexor XR?, posted by fork on September 17, 2004, at 5:48:40
Fork, please don't be discouraged by the negative posts on here. Effexor was also a life saver for me as it was for many others. I would not be here today if it wasn't for the Effexor. Some of us just had side effects that became intolerable. If you have no problems with the Effexor, keep at it. Life is so much grander without depression and self medicating. I'm not going to lye to you, the withdrawl is terrible but you don't need to worry about that right now. You need to worry about feeling better and continueing on keeping the alcohol out of the picture. That is something to be proud of. Many people don't realize how it in itself can control your life and contribute to your depression. I think you have the Effexor to thank for the loss of even wanting to drink because it naturally removes the addictive nature that your depression brought on. Great job, Fork! Keep your head up, your on the right road. The rest of us are trying to get there. It just might take a different medicine or type of therepy. Good Luck!
Posted by PoohBear on September 17, 2004, at 11:37:11
In reply to Re: Anyone had success on Effexor XR?, posted by fork on September 17, 2004, at 5:48:40
Fork:
Much in your experience with Effexor resonates with me, as I am also a 47 year-old male.
I have experienced the sames side effects and the same benefits of Effexor.
I want to let you know that some of these go away with time, i.e., the sexual side effects, tiredness, etc. In fact, even though it's harder to climax on Effexor, the climax itself is far stronger than before.
I have been trying to combat the sleep, and have tried everything from Trazodone to Seroquel and unfortunately have had a lot of weight gain from Remeron and Seroquel. We will now try Abilify and see if we get sleep without weight gain...
One small thing though:
As some others have noted, missing a dose can be a less-than-stellar experience.
I had a home emergency a cople weeks ago (broken water fitting spewing water inside wall and subfloor...yuck!) and missed my morning dose of both Effexor and Straterra. I took half a dose of each when I remembered in the late afternoon.
WOW!
I felt queasy and crappy with headaches and brain zaps for the next three days. Finally after the fourth day I began to get back to normal. It didn't make me want to get off Effexor, but rather was a potent reminder to be careful about not forgetting. My pDoc said that I should have taken the FULL DOSE in the afternoon, not a half dose.
Like many others, I am not looking forward to QUITTING
> Hi, I just started effexor xr (47 year old male with depression and anxiety, otherwise good health), I am 2 weeks into it, starting with a week at 37.5 then 75mg. In the distant past I have taken Celexa and could never get past a jittery nasuea like feeling. I have been taking lorazepam (atavan?)0.5mg as needed for years.I may go months without it and then I may go a long strech where I take several times a day, as many as 3 times daily. I have had depression issues for over 25 years and dealt with them with by self medicating using weed (very limited a few times a year to "clear " my head) and alcohol very often, including binge drinking to escape the reality of my depression (which made me feel more depressed afterwards, but I continued anyway, seemed like the only to feel happy). Recently due to some extremely stressful situations in my life I sank into the worst depression of my life to the point where I couldn't function and it was destroying my life. With the support of my wonderful wife, and realizing I couldn't "go it alone" any longer I finally started therapy a 5 weeks ago. I still was not willing to take the step to going on anti-depressants. The therapy began to help me see things differently. I then on my medical doctor and therapist advise I started effexor xr. I was very nervous about it (even more so after I found this message board and read some of the bad experiences). I was afraid of sexual side effects and becoming a emotionless zombie. For me, I felt positive effects within the first week, could have been the therapy or maybe even a placebo effect just from starting something new, either way I was feeling releaf from my depression. I did feel a little wierd at first kind of a slight "stoned" feeling but that passed within a few days. I also was sleeping alot in the daytime(I also do that when I am depressed) so I began taking the effexor xr before going to bed, that seemed to clear up my daytime sleepiness. I had an interesting sexual side effect, not the one I feared, I have been experiencing a mild delay in reaching climax which for me(and my wife) is a enjoyable side effect. One side effect I am having trouble with is I can't sleep more than 5 or 6 hours at night. Two weeks in to the effexor xr, and 5 weeks of therapy I feel so much better. I still have a lot of bad situations going on in my life, but they aren't crushing me like before. So far I am very happy with the effexor. I also have stopped drinking, which I didn't think was possible, but I strongly reccomend it if it's messing your life up, or your self medicating. I don't really have the desire to drink now. As long as I don't have problems with the effexor I intend to stay with it. My doctor advised me that this isn't a life sentence, but when I am ready to go off effexor it will be a slow process and warned me not to try to stop alone. I don't ever want to go back to the nightmare I was in. This drug may not be for everyone but for me it's been a lifesaver. I welcome any comments and I will post ever now and then with updates to my experience,good or bad.
Posted by PoohBear on September 17, 2004, at 11:38:56
In reply to Re: Success on Effexor XR, posted by PoohBear on September 17, 2004, at 11:37:11
Posted by corafree on September 17, 2004, at 20:38:34
In reply to Re: Anyone had success on Effexor XR?, posted by fork on September 17, 2004, at 5:48:40
Advise you read about slow metabolizers. If you are one, I believe that Eff-XR will not last you throughout a whole day. best wishes cf
Posted by corafree on September 17, 2004, at 20:48:58
In reply to Re: Effexor Withdrawal Highly Overrated - Thyroid, posted by Shyla on September 17, 2004, at 9:55:43
You're welcome Shyla ... sometimes I just blurt things out and I appreciate your understanding. Once again, I have best wishes for you all. cf
Posted by dianehbc on September 17, 2004, at 21:17:45
In reply to Re: Anyone had success on Effexor XR?, posted by fork on September 17, 2004, at 5:48:40
I'm 42 and was on Effexor XR 300 for a year and stopped because of the weight gain (about 30 lbs). I had some of the withdrawls that some of the others had on these postings but not all & it only lasted for three days. I started Lexapro at the same time as coming off the Effexor XR and it did nothing for me. So I went back of the Effexor XR & am up to 150 now. I should have never switched. The doctor said (a different MD) it was on too high of a dose at 300. So far the 150 is working fine. It works great for me execpt for some side effects such as only getting 5 or 6 hours of sleep a night. I get night sweats too but not as bad as when I was on the 300 mg. I am so glad these postings are here they have helped me to see that I am not alone in my depression and the battle with the medications that we take.
Thank you ALL!
Posted by salina on September 17, 2004, at 22:09:31
In reply to Re: Anyone had success on Effexor XR?, posted by Shyla on September 17, 2004, at 9:47:56
thanks shyla. i went to my doctor yesterday, and she pust me on a schedule where i need to take 1 mg of ativan 3 times a day. and she said i could take my ambien if i have problems sleeping. i'm still taking my effoxor regularly (75 mg) but my ativan really helped. it may sound wierd, but i have anxiety of anxiety. i actually worry abuut feeling anxious/depressed and create the feelings for myself. the more i think about it the more anxious i get. so the ativan helped that. i was actullay able to sleep all night last night, but i think i'm going to only take half an ambien for sleep because i felt pretty groggy when i woke up. but basically just wanted to say i feel much better as far as the nausea, and side effects... just working on the anxiety.. i'll keep you all posted. its so nice to hear from others.
Posted by pablo1 on September 17, 2004, at 22:21:17
In reply to Re: Anyone had success on Effexor XR?, posted by corafree on September 17, 2004, at 20:38:34
Do you think that could explain some side effects as daily withdrawal symptoms? Effexor is sort of infamous for it's short half-life.
on a separate topic... anyone know what would be the "smoothest" SSRI to take at a small dose (in conmbination with stimulants for ADHD)? Not the strongest but the most trouble free...
Posted by fork on September 18, 2004, at 4:08:03
In reply to Re: Success on Effexor XR, posted by PoohBear on September 17, 2004, at 11:37:11
Thanks for your comments, encouragement and information Shyla, Bubblehead and Poohbear. The sleep issue (or lack of it)is one that I am going to try to address without additional meds (if possible). I am going to try to increase my physical activity and see if that helps. Have any of you tied over the counter sleep aids, before going to Rx sleeping meds? Thanks again.
Posted by corafree on September 18, 2004, at 4:51:57
In reply to effexor twice a day » corafree, posted by pablo1 on September 17, 2004, at 22:21:17
P: When I waited to take my second dose until the evening, and I mean sometimes bedtime, I spent from 4p on ... anxious, feeling suicidal, agoraphobic, and constantly calling the hotlines. Then I read about metabolization, and how slow metabolizers get everything used up real fast in the liver, leaving you w/o the drug in your symptom earlier than docs tell you. So I moved my second dose down to just about a half hour before all the bad symptoms were beginning, and now they never occur. Docs don't even tell you about this, at leat mine didn't. There are other ways that drugs are used up quickly in a poor metabolizer besides in the liver. Especially w/ extended release, if it says 12 hrs, I can figure maybe half that. Oh, better add that I do need a sleeping pill, but always have since was backslapped by ex if I spoke while in bed. I was feelin' drowsy on Eff-XR, but increased it and increased levothyroxine (thyroid) to 75, and have good energy all day long, just prefer to lie down and rest my mind when able throughout day. cf
Posted by wildbean on September 18, 2004, at 8:22:45
In reply to Re: Quit Effexor cold turkey--meow71877, posted by lorily on September 16, 2004, at 15:28:01
I had an awful experience with depoprovera shots as well. I felt suicidal and couldn't get out of bed. Four months later I went on Effexor and started feeling better a couple hours after I took my first dose. I've been on Effexor 5 years. The side effect of being sleepy has been tolerable, especially considering how I felt when I started the drug. However, I have gained 80 lbs in 5 years. At this rate, I'm going to explode. I'm trying to decide whether to be happy and fat or try to go off effexor at the risk of always being angry like I was before. Also, I wonder about what my liver is going to be like 50 years from now if I don't get off this drug.
Posted by corafree on September 18, 2004, at 14:22:02
In reply to Re: Quit Effexor cold turkey--meow71877, posted by wildbean on September 18, 2004, at 8:22:45
Are you sure there is something else that is causing weight gain??? best wish cf
Posted by Bubblehead on September 18, 2004, at 21:59:03
In reply to Re: Success on Effexor XR Thanks for comments and, posted by fork on September 18, 2004, at 4:08:03
Fork,
I was thinking the same as you about the sleeping meds. I don't like mixing all of those meds like that. I worry about their addictiveness. Back in my younger days I had quite a bit of trouble with insomnia and I refused to resort to even the over the counter meds. I asked for a natural alternative. I had two that I used with no problems. The first is called Melatonin. It is a naturally ocurring thing in your body. You can get it in many places. You only need one mg or posibbly even less. If you take too much you will feel sleepy in the morning still. This stuff works wonders, honestly. The second thing is not even a pill, it is something you do. Now first, let me tell everyone, not to laugh or nock it until you have tried it. What you do is dump about 1/2 a teaspoon (give or take a little) of salt; You then place it on your tongue and let it melt as much as you can (really does taste bad); Then you chug a large glass of water. You do this before bed and you'll be sleeping in no time. I got this out of a book, though I can't remember the name of it. I guess the salt forces your body to absorb the water. I don't need to know the science behind it to know that it works. So...With that being said; who's brave enough to try it. Let me know if it works for ya.
Posted by corafree on September 19, 2004, at 2:49:29
In reply to Re: Effexor and chronic pain » Starwatcher, posted by jannbeau on July 9, 2002, at 10:34:56
Cary11, Jannbaeu & Starwatcher, I really need your help. I take Endocet (generic Percocet) for chronic pain. I have C2-3, 3-4, and 5-6 extruded discs. I cannot afford surgery and surgeons say I'm not bad enough (I say to myself 'yeah..yet!'.) I am having extremely horrible breakthrough pain. Usually last 203 or 304 days. This is the second in a period of two weeks. My PCP doesn't prescribe a diff med, just allows me 10 extra Endocets per month. IT'S NOT ENOUGH!!! I cannot take morphine because it makes me crazy. I feel fortunate that my PCP gives me what he gives me, and am so afraid to tell him I need more. I lie on my ack w/ a rolled towel under my neck and just lie there and cry. I am working on myself, emotional illnesses, and other physical illnesses. I am so overwhelmed. My anxiety med is only Klonopin up to 4mg a day. Sometimes I think part of my suicidal ideation is my physical pain in my shoulder, neck, and whole head. I am open to any of your suggestions. I am trying to get a TENS, but was just at therapy FRIDAY, used it, and then had the breakthrough later in day. It was a very busy day, running here and there. Seems like I do so much better in a quiet, calm environment. Two men are calling me all the time and I'm crying over that...don't know what to do...need them, don't know if I want them, but too much pain to pick up phone. They cause me stress too. My focus right now is supposed to be on my DBT therapy, and there is so much interference, I don't know which way to turn. love cf
> >Star: I take 2 tablets of propoxyphene with acetaminophen at night with the 37.5 mg of Effexor. During the day, I take 1 to 2 5 mg tablets of hydrocodone, as necessary, for pain. There appears to be very little, if any, interaction between the propoxyphene and the Effexor or between Effexor and hydrocodone. This is NOT the case with ULTRAM, however. My pain specialist put me on Ultram, Topamax and Effexor all at the same time. The Ultram, which appears to have significant effects on serotonin receptors or NE or DA receptors, in conjunction with the Effexor caused me much grief. I stay completely away from Ultram as a result.
>
> Hope this information is helpful.
>
> Jannbeau
>
> Hi, jann. Thanks for your reply. I've really watched what I take in conjunction with Effexor, since it seems to be such a high powered med. I have taken 1 ea. #3 codeine before for relief, but I've never done so at the same time. I've only done it once or twice during the day when the Effexor wore off and it wasn't time to take that again yet, but I made sure and waited at least six hours before taking the Effexor. What very low dose opioids do you take at the same time?
> >
> > > > Starwatcher, I have had the very same experience. I take 37.5 mg at night, no antiinflammatory (I am allergic to aspirin-asthma-and other NSAIDs; no tagamet because no NSAIDs). The medication works very well-in conjunction with very low doses of opiod analgesics-to control my pain (arthritis and fibromyalgia). Similar side effects: fatigue; somnolence for part of the day.
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > > jannbeau
> > >
> > > Hi, Cary 111. I take my 37.5 mg. about an hour or so or right before I go to bed, along with two other prescribed meds - Etodolac ( an anti-inflammatory) and a Tagamet for my stomach (this can increase Effexor's effects, and cause it to be eliminated from the system more slowly, so maybe that's why I can get by on the smallest dose). Since my condition that it is prescribed for is NOT depression, but chronic fibromyalgia pain - I felt and feel totally safe reducing the dosage down from 75 mg. to 37.5 mg. If a lesser dose will relieve the pain, and I have less side effects, why not? I am still finding that I'm sometimes still a little tired, loaded and fuzzy headed feeling for about an hour in the morning after I wake up, but it goes away - and I've been on it now for almost a month, with no missed doses. The pain stays gone until the evening.
> > > >
> > > > Starwatcher:
> > > > > Thanks for your message. What time of day do you take that 37.5mg? Was your tiredness greater when you first began taking the medication. Does it seem to be getting better as you adjust? I hope all continues to go well for you.
> > > > > Best, Cary 111
> > > > >
> > > > > > > I have had chronic soft tissue pain in my feet for several years. I also have an arthritic hip joint. I was prescribed Effexor, starting at 37,5 and then up in a week to 75mg. Has anyone out there had an experience with effexor for the treatment of anxiety and depression, in connection with chronic pain?
> > > > > > > As a side note: I met someone a few days ago who recommended I try a wheat, sugar, meat, and dairy free diet for my pain problems. Because I've tried almost everything, I figured I'd give it a shot. Wow!!! do I feel mentally clear and relaxed in comparison to just two days ago. However my pain is no better, although I do seem less overwhelmed because I feel so much better mentally. Now I'm wondering if I should even begin the Effexor.
> > > > > > > Also, I have tried Serzone, and Nortriptyline, and began with Prozac (made me very anxious) a few years ago.
> > > > > > > Anyone with suggestions, please respond!
> > > > > > > Thank you in advance
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Hi, cary.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I've been on 37.5 mg. of Effexor for fibromyalgia for about three weeks, and this dose seems to be working continuously! My doctor prescribed 75 mg., and I tried that on a weekend - but it was too much - I couldn't function and basically slept around the clock - so I decreased the dosage myself. I will stay at this dose as long as it works, and I'm experiencing minimal side effects - a little diziness now and then, and a kinda sleepy loaded feeling for awhile when I wake up in the morning.
>
>
Posted by jujube on September 19, 2004, at 7:35:58
In reply to Re: Quit Effexor cold turkey--meow71877, posted by wildbean on September 18, 2004, at 8:22:45
I, too, am having a terrible time with Depo Provera (apprehension, lethargy, throwing up, down mood and what felt like permanent PMS). I had already been Effexor XR for close to 6 months, and not had having much success (increased anxiety, apathetic, sooo tired), when I got the shot. My periods had become irregular and I was having severe night sweats, which I think now may have just been side effects of the Effexor XR at the higher dose (225 mg), so the gyno thought Depo was just what I needed. Needless to say, I will not be going back for a second Depo shot, and my doctor has also switched me to Celexa (weaned off Effexor over two-week period and then started Celexa). That Depo is nasty stuff!!!
> I had an awful experience with depoprovera shots as well. I felt suicidal and couldn't get out of bed. Four months later I went on Effexor and started feeling better a couple hours after I took my first dose. I've been on Effexor 5 years. The side effect of being sleepy has been tolerable, especially considering how I felt when I started the drug. However, I have gained 80 lbs in 5 years. At this rate, I'm going to explode. I'm trying to decide whether to be happy and fat or try to go off effexor at the risk of always being angry like I was before. Also, I wonder about what my liver is going to be like 50 years from now if I don't get off this drug.
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