Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 237849

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Celiac disease and depression

Posted by Deb R on June 29, 2003, at 2:50:25

Last year there was a thread started about celiac disease and depression. I am just wondering if those that posted then are still around and if so, how are they progressing? Has a gluten free diet for a longer period of time helped?

My Mum has schizophrenia and in a recent blood test they tested for celiac disease. She was positive to two of the indicators, not enough for them to say a definite yes......so an endoscopy is next on the list.

I would be very grateful if anyone out there has some information which may be of help - this gluten thing may also impact on one of our children - a long story, too long to go into here, but any info could help us.

Thankyou very much,

Deb.

 

Re: Celiac disease and depression Deb R

Posted by Larry Hoover on June 29, 2003, at 11:43:24

In reply to Celiac disease and depression, posted by Deb R on June 29, 2003, at 2:50:25

> Last year there was a thread started about celiac disease and depression. I am just wondering if those that posted then are still around and if so, how are they progressing? Has a gluten free diet for a longer period of time helped?
>
> My Mum has schizophrenia and in a recent blood test they tested for celiac disease. She was positive to two of the indicators, not enough for them to say a definite yes......so an endoscopy is next on the list.
>
> I would be very grateful if anyone out there has some information which may be of help - this gluten thing may also impact on one of our children - a long story, too long to go into here, but any info could help us.
>
> Thankyou very much,
>
> Deb.

There's a very clear link between celiac and mental illness. Moreover, many people have "silent" celiac, not so disturbing as to create major symptoms, but significantly affecting nutrient uptake, just the same. I think I may be one of those myself.

Psychiatr Pol. 2002 Jul-Aug;36(4):567-78.

[Psychiatric symptoms and coeliac disease]

[Article in Polish]

Potocki P, Hozyasz K.

Kliniki Psychiatrii Dzieci i Mlodziezy, Instytutu Psychiatrii i Neurologii w Warszawie.

Psychiatric symptoms and psychological behavioral pathologies are common in patients with untreated coeliac disease. There are several case reports of coexistence of coeliac sprue and depression, schizophrenia and anxiety. Views on association between coeliac disease and psychiatric disturbances and results of the most important studies are discussed. Biological background is referred. Malabsorption and deficiency of aminoacids and vitamins implicate reduction of synthesis of neurotransmitters in the central nervous system. Psychiatric symptoms could also be linked to immunological disregulation in coeliac patients. Psychological pathologies do appear in treated and untreated coeliacs, the need of psychological support is stressed. Coeliac disease should be taken into consideration in patients with psychiatric disorders, particularly if they are not responsive to psychopharmacological therapy, because withdrawal of gluten from the diet usually results in disappearance of symptoms. In recent years, an increased incidence of subclinical/silent coeliac disease has been reported. Psychiatric symptoms and psychological behavioral pathologies could be the only clinical manifestation of coeliac disease, but the epidemiological aspects need further investigation.

Am J Gastroenterol. 1999 Mar;94(3):839-43.

Depression in adult untreated celiac subjects: diagnosis by the pediatrician.

Corvaglia L, Catamo R, Pepe G, Lazzari R, Corvaglia E.

Department of Pediatric Gastroenterology, St. Orsola Hospital, University of Bologna, Italy.

Untreated celiac disease can lead to serious behavioral disorders. We describe three adult patients with undiagnosed or untreated celiac disease without particular intestinal signs, causing persistent depressive symptoms in three of the parents of our pediatric patients. In two of the three cases, the pediatrician suspected the diagnosis when taking the family history of the children. In fact, a diagnosis of celiac disease was made during childhood, when they had intestinal symptoms, but the gluten-free diet was spontaneously interrupted during the teenage period because of the disappearance of the typical intestinal signs. In the third case the mother was tested for antiendomysium antibodies (EmA), as she had a diagnosed celiac child. In all three patients, the depressive symptoms improved quickly with a gluten-free diet. In conclusion, celiac disease should be taken into consideration in the presence of behavioral and depressive disorders, particularly if they are not responsive to the usual antidepressive therapy.

Gut. 1991 Dec;32(12):1478-81.

Plasma precursor amino acids of central nervous system monoamines in children with coeliac disease.

Hernanz A, Polanco I.

Servicio de Bioquimica, Hospital La Paz, Madrid, Spain.

Some children with coeliac disease show behavioural disorders such as depression and other signs which have been correlated with reduced central monoamine metabolism. We have therefore investigated the brain availability of the monoamine precursors tryptophan and tyrosine in 15 untreated children with coeliac disease and 12 treated children with coeliac disease as well as in 12 control children. Significantly decreased plasma concentrations of tryptophan were found in untreated children (mean (SD) 13 (4) mumols/l, p less than 0.001) compared with treated children (31 (13) mumols/l), and in both groups of coeliac children when compared with control children (81 (22) mumols/l). A significantly lower ratio of plasma tryptophan to large neutral amino acids (tyrosine, valine, isoleucine, leucine, and phenylalanine) was also observed, which could indicate impaired brain availability of tryptophan in coeliac children and was more pronounced in untreated children. The impaired availability of tryptophan could produce decreased central serotonin synthesis and in turn behaviour disorders in children with coeliac disease.

 

Re: Celiac disease and depressionLarry Hoover

Posted by Deb R on June 29, 2003, at 21:48:36

In reply to Re: Celiac disease and depression Deb R, posted by Larry Hoover on June 29, 2003, at 11:43:24

Hi Larry,

Thanks for your prompt response - I also think this has implications for myself...I read somewhere that the children of schizophrenics have a higher incidence of celiac disease. Have printed off your post and will have a good read of it! Thanks again,

Deb.

 

Lar, Re: Celiac disease and depression

Posted by McPac on June 30, 2003, at 1:27:17

In reply to Re: Celiac disease and depression Deb R, posted by Larry Hoover on June 29, 2003, at 11:43:24

Lar, have you ever tried a gluten/casein free diet?
Certainly never had a shrink/allopath mention that idea to me.

 

Larry, Re: Celiac disease and depression

Posted by McPac on June 30, 2003, at 2:23:54

In reply to Re: Celiac disease and depression Deb R, posted by Larry Hoover on June 29, 2003, at 11:43:24

Lar, my question is at the END of this article.


How Modern Eating Habits May Contribute to Depression

By Ron Hoggan M.A. & James Braly M.D.

The causes of depression may vary as much as our individuality, yet we often fail to consider our eating habits as possible culprits. With each passing year's increased understanding of the biological complexities of the human animal, more data suggesting dietary factors are unveiled. The use of drugs such as SSRIs (selective serotonin re-uptake inhibitors) and herbal extracts such as St. John's Wort (1, 2, 3) and 5-hydroxytryptophan (4) to manipulate quantities of serotonin at the synapses within the brain has demonstrated that available serotonin beyond the blood brain barrier (BBB) is an important factor in alleviating depression for many people. The brand name of one such drug, Prozac, has become a household word in our North American culture. Protein, if consumed in excessive quantity, suppresses CNS serotonin levels. Carbohydrate intake, as well as alcohol and cocaine abuse increase levels initially, but if use is chronic, such use dramatically lowers CNS serotonin, resulting in depression, carbohydrate cravings, sleep disturbances, and proneness to argumentativeness, irritability. Violence can also be used to manipulate serotonin levels. Additionally, the morphine-like substances derived from the incomplete digests of dairy and cereal grain proteins are other dietary factors which may alter mood by depressing CNS serotonin, dopamine and norepinephrine levels (5). The reduced number of platelet receptors for serotonin found in patients with celiac disease, which is also caused, at least in part, by dietary factors, again points to food as a factor in some cases of depression. Such a propensity for depression, as is now seen in our modern world, seems to run counter to the process of natural selection. It is of more than passing interest that many of the foods which seem to be implicated in depression are also foods which Humanity has had only a relatively short time, on the evolutionary calendar, to adapt to (6). And we have been consuming more and more of these new foods during this century.

Regardless of the causes of the high frequency of depression in our contemporary world, we now have fairly effective drugs to treat this condition. One such group of drugs, SSRIs, act to reduce the rate of re-uptake of serotonin at the synapses, working to conserve serotonin and increase its synaptic concentration for longer periods of time. Serotonin is an important neurotransmitter which is needed for sleep onset, mood regulation, carbohydrate craving and consumption, and a host of other functions (7). But there are other means to manipulate its presence in the brain. If we have recently digested protein, resulting in an increased level of large neutral amino acids (LNAA) in the blood stream, and we subsequently eat enough carbohydrate to induce a significant rise of circulating insulin, most of these amino acids will be transported across cell walls, for storage or energy. Due to tryptophan's resistance to insulin, this will result in an increase of circulating tryptophan. Since LNAAs compete for transport across the BBB, and since its competitors have been reduced, the relative increase in tryptophan leads to increased quantities of tryptophan being moved into the brain. Since the BBB is the primary limiting factor in conversion of tryptophan to serotonin, this results in increased levels of serotonin within the brain (8).

Since such manipulations of serotonin are difficult to regulate, and unlikely to have long-lasting effects (although some of the mystery of obesity may be revealed in this dynamic) a much more important dietary factor in depression may be the morphine-like substances which derive from the incomplete digests of proteins in cereal grains and dairy products. These were first reported by Christine Zioudrou et al. who dubbed such peptides "exorphins"(9). Further elucidation of this issue has been provided through the extensive work of Fukudome and Yoshikawa, published over the last decade (10,11) who have identified and characterized five distinct exorphins in the pepsin digests of gluten. Eight distinct exorphins have also been identified in the pepsin digests of milk (12). This work has given us a clearer sense of the morphine-like psychoactive nature of the peptides which result from the incomplete digests of these dietary proteins, as well as offering a possible explanation for some of the reported psychiatric reactions to these proteins (13,14,15) including the sense of "brain fog" that often accompanies immune reactions to these foods.

The field of serology has also provided us with some very clear evidence that such peptides, and the proteins from which they derive, can be absorbed through the intestinal mucosa, and into the circulation of a significant minority of apparently healthy members of the general population (16). Investigations of abnormal electrical activity in more than two thirds of untreated children with celiac disease has indicated that most of them normalize following dietary restriction (17, 18). These findings suggest that caseomorphin and gluten-derived exorphins are at the root of such abnormal electrical activity in the brain. Since such substances act as depressants, slowing neurotransmission, it should not be surprising if the intestinal permeability, and digestive enzyme deficiencies found in celiac disease were also found in many folks suffering depression. This is underscored by the reports that depression is a very common symptom of celiac disease (19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26). More on this point can be found at: http://www.gluten-free.org/reichelt.html

Please don't misunderstand us. We do not mean to suggest that all, or even most people suffering from depression have celiac disease. Quite the contrary, we suspect that only a small minority will demonstrate celiac disease when tested (although screening this population for celiac disease makes good sense). It is my suspicion that many folks suffering from depression may have underlying intestinal permeability combined with digestive enzyme deficiencies. To have celiac disease, they would also need to have some degree of damage to, or lymphocyte infiltration of, their intestinal mucosa. So celiac disease would probably be found in a relatively small, but significant percentage, of those afflicted. The prior two conditions of enzyme deficiency and intestinal permeability are abundantly found when sought, and it is these features which, we suspect, dominate the segment of the population which is chronically depressed.

Humans have spent millions of years being naturally selected, in part, on the basis of a diet that included vegetables, seeds, fruit, insects, and subsequently, meat. Yet, at most, we have had only ~12,000 years to adapt to consumption of significant quantities of problematic cereal grains, with cultivation originating in southeastern Europe, and spreading to the northwest very slowly. The Romans spread it throughout their empire, reaching far flung parts of Europe, but places they never conquered, such as Ireland, Scotland, and Finland, have been consuming significant quantities of grains for less than 2,000 years. A Danish friend told me that prior to the end of World War II, many Danes considered wheaten bread to be a special treat, because wheat does not grow well in Denmark. North American natives have had a similarly limited exposure to gluten.

Humanity has also had a relatively short time to adapt to post-infancy consumption of significant quantities of milk from other species. This dietary practice probably arose out of animal husbandry. For a more extensive discussion of this topic, go to: http://www.PaleoDiet.com and http://www.gluten-free.org/hoggan/.

Our frequent difficulty with these recent foods seems congruent with the evolutionary data. Many of us simply have not had sufficient time to adapt to these recent additions to the human food supply. We would likely fare much better on foods to which our ancestors have adapted. The dramatic increase in our consumption of these recent foods during this century may have a very ominous element. Such dietary habits may well have been paving the way for Prozac.

The treatment for many cases of depression should begin with serological testing, and be followed by approximately the same treatment as that in celiac disease and milk protein intolerance. Dietary exclusion of the offending proteins will often mean exclusion of gluten-containing grains and/or dairy proteins. Such a diet would, in some cases, result in a few days of withdrawal symptoms, followed by a substantial improvement in mood. While we only know of anecdotal reports of such improvements, we find the above data, in combination with these anecdotal reports, to be quite compelling.

******Lar, re: the following statement from the article, what is the NAME of the specific enzyme that one could take to alleviate this enzyne deficiency? "The prior two conditions of enzyme deficiency and intestinal permeability are abundantly found when sought, and it is these features which, we suspect, dominate the segment of the population which is chronically depressed".


For more information on changing diet see:
The Gluten-Free Page: http://www.gluten-free.org/hoggan/
The No Milk Page: http://www.NoMilk.com/
The Paleolithic Diet Page: http://www.PaleoDiet.com/
PaleoFood Recipe Collection: http://www.PaleoFood.com/

References

Ernst E. St. John's Wort, an antidepressant? A systematic, criteria-based review. Phytomed; volume 2: pages 67-71, 1995.
Linde K, et al. St. John's Wort for depression: an overview and meta-analysis of randomized clinical trials. British Journal of Medicine; volume 313: pages 253-258, 1996.
Perovic S and Muller WEG. Pharmacological profile of hypericum extract [St. John's Wort]. Effect of serotonin uptake by post-synaptic receptors. Arzneim Forsch; volume 45: pages 1145-1148, 1995.
Fibromyalgia and the serotonin pathway. Juhl JH Altern Med Rev, 1998 Oct, 3:5, pages 367-375.
Hallert C et al. Psychic disturbances in adult coeliac disease III. Reduced central monoamine metabolism and signs of depression. Scand J Gastroenterol, 1982; volume 17: pages 25-28.
Lutz W, The Colonization of Europe and Our Western Diseases. Medical Hypotheses 1995; 45: 115-120
Tortora & Grabowski _Principles of Anatomy & Physiology_ Harper Collins, N.Y. 1996; p. 417
Young S, The Effect on Aggression and Mood of Altering Tryptophan Levels. _Nutrition Reviews_ 1986; May Supplement: 112-122
Zioudrou C, Streaty RA, Klee WA, Opioid peptides derived from food proteins. The exorphins. J Biol Chem. 1979 Apr 10;254(7): 2446-9.
Fukudome S, Shimatsu A, Suganuma H, Yoshikawa M Effect of gluten exorphins A5 and B5 on the postprandial plasma insulin level in conscious rats. Life Sci. 1995;57(7):729-34.
Fukudome S, Yoshikawa M Opioid peptides derived from wheat gluten: their isolation and characterization. FEBS Lett. 1992 Jan 13;296(1):107-11.
Mycroft FJ, et al. MIF-like sequences in milk and wheat proteins. N Engl. J Med. 1982 Sep 30;307(14):895.
Dohan FC. Genetic hypothesis of idiopathic schizophrenia: its exorphin connection. Schizophr Bull. 1988;14(4):489-94.
Saelid G, Haug JO, Heiberg T, Reichelt KL Peptide-containing fractions in depression. Biol. Psychiatry. 1985 Mar;20(3):245-56.
Hoggan, R. Absolutism's Hidden Message for Medical Scientism. Interchange. 1997; 28(2/3): 183-189.
Husby S, Jensenius JC, Svehag SE Passage of undegraded dietary antigen into the blood of healthy adults. Quantification, estimation of size distribution, and relation of uptake to levels of specific antibodies. Scand J Immunol. 1985 Jul;22(1):83-92.
Kozlowska ZE. [Evaluation of mental status of children with malabsorption syndrome after long-term treatment with gluten-free diet]. Psychiatr Pol. 1991 Mar-Apr;25(2):130-4.
Paul K, Todt J, Eysold R, [EEG Research Findings in Children with Celiac Disease According to Dietary Variations] _Zeitschrift der Klinische Medizin_ 1985;40: 707-709
Corvaglia L, et al. Depression in adult untreated celiac subjects: diagnosis by the pediatrician. Am J Gastroenterol. 1999 Mar;94(3):839-43.
Ciacci C, et al. Depressive symptoms in adult coeliac disease. Scand J Gastroenterol. 1998 Mar;33(3):247-50.
Addolorato G, et al. Anxiety and depression in adult untreated celiac subjects and in patients affected by inflammatory bowel disease: a personality "trait" or a reactive illness? Hepatogastroenterology. 1996 Nov-Dec;43(12):1513-7.
Pellegrino M, et al. Untreated coeliac disease and attempted suicide. Lancet. 1995 Sep 30;346(8979):915.
Cheliout W. [A misleading depression]. Encephale. 1994 Sep-Oct;20(5):531-4. French.
Hernanz A, et al. Plasma precursor amino acids of central nervous system monoamines in children with coeliac disease. Gut. 1991 Dec;32(12):1478-81.
van Praag HM. Affective disorders and aggression disorders: evidence for a common biological mechanism.
Suicide Life Threat Behav. 1986 Summer;16(2):103-32. Review.
Hallert C, et al. Psychic disturbances in adult coeliac disease. I. Clinical observations. Scand J Gastroenterol. 1982 Jan;17(1):17-9.

 

Re: Lar, Re: Celiac disease and depression McPac

Posted by Larry Hoover on June 30, 2003, at 5:54:18

In reply to Lar, Re: Celiac disease and depression, posted by McPac on June 30, 2003, at 1:27:17

> Lar, have you ever tried a gluten/casein free diet?
> Certainly never had a shrink/allopath mention that idea to me.

No, I have not tried such a diet. Yet. Strange as it may seem, given the potential benefits, I find it would be too much work, right now.

I have become an ardent reader of ingredient lists for food products. I am absolutely astounded at the "cross-contamination" of foodstuffs. Wheat is in things that have no business having wheat in them, and the same goes for dairy. You'd virtually have to stop buying any commercial food products (other than those expensive ones available at health food stores (another limiting factor for me)) to avoid these substances.

Being on the road as much as I am right now, it is simply not feasible to exclude them from my diet.

When things change, to permit me to be home all the time, I plan to give the diet thing a try.

Lar

 

Re: Larry, Re: Celiac disease and depression McPac

Posted by Larry Hoover on June 30, 2003, at 6:30:53

In reply to Larry, Re: Celiac disease and depression, posted by McPac on June 30, 2003, at 2:23:54

> Lar, my question is at the END of this article.

> ******Lar, re: the following statement from the article, what is the NAME of the specific enzyme that one could take to alleviate this enzyne deficiency? "The prior two conditions of enzyme deficiency and intestinal permeability are abundantly found when sought, and it is these features which, we suspect, dominate the segment of the population which is chronically depressed".

The enzyme deficiencies mentioned are quite possibly the result of intestinal injury from gluten/casein exposure, rather than a causative factor. Simply put, celiac causes malnutrition, and malnutrition causes poor enzyme production.

Alternatively, poor enzyme production may have a genetic component, which is compounded by the coexistence of gluten or casein sensitivity.

In general terms, enzymes are proteins. Moreover, they have exquisitely defined three-dimensional structure, which is why they work. The acid in the stomach denatures the vast majority of enzymes (destroys their three-dimensional structure) and/or breaks them to pieces (digestion). Your stomach secretes enzymes which not only survive the high-acid environment, they need it to develop their own functional three-dimensional structure. Pepsin, an enzyme that breaks proteins into smaller pieces (including free amino acids), is an example. Some absorption of nutrients occurs here, but not much, relatively speaking.

Celiac is an intestinal disorder. The crudely digested mass in the stomach passes into the intestine and the acid is neutralized. Then, other enzymes that can't survive the acid are released into the gut, and digestion proceeds, finally producing the majority of the free nutrients that can be absorbed into your blood.

Celiac sprue damages the intestinal wall, where the uptake of nutrients occurs. Nutrients that require transport pumps for efficient uptake just don't get absorbed well. Even those that don't need pumps for uptake may be inhibited, due to inflammatory processes.

Over time, your body runs out of the supplies it needs to make the digestive enzymes themselves. At the same time, the rest of the body is starving for some nutrients (e.g. vitamin B-12). That's where the psych symptoms arise.

So, back to the enzyme question. Oral enzymes are just so much food, as far as your stomach is concerned. If they can be denatured, they will be. If they can be digested, they will be. (Aside: Raw foods advocates, who think that cooking destroys enzymes, ignore the effect of their own stomachs on those same enzymes. I think your stomach does more to those enzymes than cooking can ever do.)

Despite what I just said, there are oral enzymes that help your digestion. There are numerous commercial products available. Tons of different products. I have no clear idea which ones work, and which ones end up being expensive protein food. That said, I've had good results when I've tried using such a product.

One that I use regularly is bromelain, which is an enzyme derived from pineapple. It is a proteolytic (protein-digesting) enzyme, and it survives the stomach. In fact, it is absorbed intact into the blood. There, it has anti-inflammatory and immune-regulating properties.

There are also products with actual pepsin, and other enzymes (e.g. lipase, a fat-digesting enzyme), normally secreted by a healthy gut. They're fairly expensive, but if they overcome the disturbance in digestion and uptake of nutrients, they're worth every penny.

I'm going to be taking an intensive look at the topic of exorphins. I may be on the cusp of going on a gluten/casein exclusion diet after all.

Lar

 

Re: Celiac disease and depression Deb R

Posted by Larry Hoover on June 30, 2003, at 9:11:46

In reply to Celiac disease and depression, posted by Deb R on June 29, 2003, at 2:50:25


> My Mum has schizophrenia and in a recent blood test they tested for celiac disease. She was positive to two of the indicators, not enough for them to say a definite yes......so an endoscopy is next on the list.


Deb, check out this article. An exorphin is a small protein fragment (peptide), which by coincidence, happens to bind to opiate receptors. Our own bodies actually use short peptides to regulate the "opiate" system, so exorphins can be thought of as diet-derived hormone mimics. There have been a number of different exorphins identified that arise from digestion of gluten, and also casein (milk protein).


Schizophr Bull. 1988;14(4):489-94.

Genetic hypothesis of idiopathic schizophrenia: its exorphin connection.

Dohan FC.

Medical College of Pennsylvania, Eastern Pennsylvania, Psychiatric Institute, Philadelphia 19129.

This brief overview proposes a testable oligogenic model of the inheritance of susceptibility to idiopathic schizophrenia: "abnormal" genes at each of a few complementary loci. The model is based on my assumptions as to the likely genetic abnormalities at possibly four or five interacting loci that would permit exorphins, the opioid peptides from some food proteins, especially glutens and possibly caseins, to go from gut to brain and cause symptoms of schizophrenia. Exorphins may reach the brain cerebrospinal fluid (CSF) in harmful amounts because of their genetically increased, receptor-mediated transcellular passage across the gut epithelial barrier plus decreased catabolism by genetically defective enzymes. A schizophrenia-specific, genetically enhanced affinity for exorphins by opioid receptors influencing dopaminergic and other neurons would permit sustained dysfunction at low CSF exorphin concentrations. Tests of each postulated genetic abnormality are suggested. This model is supported by a variety of evidence, including a significant effect of gluten or its absence on relapsed schizophrenic patients, the high correlation of changes in first admission rates for schizophrenia with changes in grain consumption rates, and the rarity of cases of schizophrenia where grains and milk are rare.

 

Lar, Re: Celiac disease and depression

Posted by McPac on June 30, 2003, at 13:47:19

In reply to Re: Lar, Re: Celiac disease and depression McPac, posted by Larry Hoover on June 30, 2003, at 5:54:18

You'd virtually have to stop buying any commercial food products

>>>>>>>>>Exactly....I know I should try this diet....but what's left to eat??? If I ever get shipwrecked on a desert island then I might be able to eat gluten/casein free!

(other than those expensive ones available at health food stores (another limiting factor for me)) to avoid these substances.

>>>>Yep!

When things change, to permit me to be home all the time, I plan to give the diet thing a try.

>>>>>>>>Everything you said in this post I've said before.....you'd practically have to eat ONLY at home....which means you'd practically BE home all the time....I like doing too many things and being AWAY from home....requirements for a gluten/casein free diet---being a recluse that buys only expensive health food store foods....that sucks....I believe this diet may really provide big benefits but it seems pretty impossible given that 99% of foods contain this crap in them.

 

Larry, Re: Celiac disease and depression

Posted by McPac on June 30, 2003, at 13:59:31

In reply to Re: Lar, Re: Celiac disease and depression McPac, posted by Larry Hoover on June 30, 2003, at 5:54:18

Lar, MIGHT the easier solution be HEALING the leaky gut in the first place (and then being able to eat whatever WITHOUT the reaction)? Another site on-line (Dr. Stoll) harps on this constantly....he (and other followers) STRONGLY emphasizes SKILLED RELAXATION as one of THE main components of healing a leaky gut AND overall mental/physical health. Have you ever looked into Skilled Relaxation Lar? Many SWEAR by it. Another HUGE problem he talks about constantly is "bracing" (don't know if you're aware of this concept). Sooooooo many ideas/possible causes/possible solutions/theories, etc.....you'd have to live to be 1,000 yrs old to try them all out! Thoughts Lar? Thanks!!

 

Re: Celiac disease and depressionLarry Hoover

Posted by noa on June 30, 2003, at 19:17:22

In reply to Re: Celiac disease and depressionLarry Hoover, posted by Deb R on June 29, 2003, at 21:48:36

I didn't know this! This is interesting.

 

Re: Celiac disease and depression

Posted by bookgurl99 on July 1, 2003, at 1:10:33

In reply to Celiac disease and depression, posted by Deb R on June 29, 2003, at 2:50:25

I knew of a friend's father who was dx'd with schizoaffective disorder. One of his daughters was then dx'd with celiac disease, so his dr. tested him for it too. After treatment for celiac sprue, he apparently returned to normal. (Of course, it's hard to know if he would have returned to normal regardless, but. . . )

It's neat to give these things a try; there's at least some hope.

Good luck for you and your mom,

books

 

Lar/Others.......simply for your perusal........

Posted by McPac on July 1, 2003, at 1:45:25

In reply to Re: Celiac disease and depression, posted by bookgurl99 on July 1, 2003, at 1:10:33

From: RBHOGGAN@cbe.ab.ca
Date: Tue, 04 Jun 1996 00:11:21 -0700 (MST)
Subject: Depression

There is a tremendous volume of information that ties depressive illness
to gluten intolerance.

In 1976, Dr. Richard Mackarness published his book "NOT ALL IN THE MIND"
through Thorsons of Hammersmith, London, and San Francisco. He repeatedly
demonstrates that food allergies, especially in gluten allergies or
intolerance, behavioural and psychiatric symptoms are common.

Cooke & Holmes, in their book, "COELIAC DISEASE" published by Churchill
Livingstone, New York, 1984, they repeatedly cite depressive illness as
THE MOST COMMON symptom of gluten intolerance. They also cite a study
that demonstrated that newly diagnosed celiacs recover from their
depressions much more quickly when their diets are supplemented with
vitamin B6. Of course, malabsorption of fat soluble vitamins is legion in
gluten intolerance, but all vitamin absorption is a problem. The jejunal
microvilli are damaged such that they do not absorb fats (and therefore
fat soluble vitamins) very well, but B6, B12, and folic acid deficiencies
that virtually always accompany gluten intolerance, are all involved in
neurotransmission.

Do not be misled. Because fats can be made from other foods, the
malabsorption associated with gluten intolerance need not suggest an
underweight condition in our calorie rich diets.

Dr Kozlowska, in her article "Evaluation of Mental Status of Children
with Malabsorption Syndrome After Long-Term Treatment" published in
"PSYCHIATRIA POLSKA" 25/2 Mar/Apr. 1991, identified fully 71% of the
children they studied as having psychiatric disturbances.

In "PRINCIPLES OF ANATOMY AND PHYSIOLOGY" 6th ed. by Tortora &
Anagnostakos, Harper & Row, New York, 1990, the authors make the very
clear statement:
"you will also learn that certain disorders such as Parkinson's disease,
Alzheimer's disease, depression, anxiety, and schizophrenia involve
improperly functioning neurotransmitters."

Opioids, of course, will compete for endorphin receptors in the synapses,
thus altering the neurotransmission at synapses where the opioids have
attached.

Zioudrou et. al. in "Opioid Peptides Derived From Food Proteins" in
"JOURNAL OF BIOLOGICAL CHEMISTRY" vol. 254, no. 7, page 2446, April 10,
1979, clearly demonstrated that pepsin digests of wheat can form these
opioids in the gut.

Husby, et. al. in "Passage of Undegraded Dietary Antigen into the Blood
of Healthy Adults" in "SCAND. JOURNAL OF IMMUNOLOGY" 22, 1985,
demonstrate how these opioids pass through the intestinal wall, and into
the bloodstream.

Paul H. Black, in "Psychoneuroimmunology: Brain and Immunity" in
SCIENTIFIC AMERICAN SCIENCE & MEDICINE, vol. 2, issue 6, p. 16, Nov-Dec,
1995, has shown how opioids may enter the brain through the HPA axis,
thereby bypassing the blood brain barrier.

These are just two possible explanations for depression in celiac
disease. There are many more. The point is that such depressions need to
be treated with a gluten-free diet, and vitamin supplementation, where
possible intravenously, because of poor absorption.


I am not a doctor. I am just trying offer an alternative. Please consult
a physician for advice pertinent to your situation. For instance, if her
health permits, you might have her fast for three days. If there is an
improvement, then the problem is quite likely the result of something she
is eating. A physician would be able to determine if she is fit enough to
safely undertake such a fast.

I hope that is helpful,

Ron Hoggan

 

One more, Lar/Others...simply for your perusal..

Posted by McPac on July 1, 2003, at 1:48:01

In reply to Lar/Others.......simply for your perusal........, posted by McPac on July 1, 2003, at 1:45:25

This is the final version that was given at the Annual General Meeting of
the Calgary Chapter of the Canadian Celiac Association, March 15, 1997.


Gluten is a Dubious Luxury of Non-Celiacs
by
Ron Hoggan

Note: In this paper I use the term "gluten" and "cereals" generically, as we
celiacs use it, to refer to all toxic proteins in wheat, rye, barley and oats.

One must wonder why, in spite of increasing life-spans in the advanced
industrialized nations, modern medicine has failed to clearly identify the
cause of many neurological, autoimmune and malignant disease. The
gluten-free diet is only recommended where there is a clear indication of
advanced, gluten-induced disease, but is this the best advice?

We may sometimes feel disadvantaged by the strict gluten-free diet we have to
follow. It is costly and inconvenient. But perhaps it is those who continue
to consume glutinous foods who should be concerned. Gluten, while dangerous to
celiacs, has never been investigated for deleterious effects on the general
population. Yet we have studies that show that hunter-gatherers following
traditional life-ways do not develop the neurological, auto-immune and
malignant diseases that people living in the industrialized world
experience, and these people rarely eat gluten-rich foods (1,2). There is
already compelling evidence connecting the advent of agriculture to bone
and joint disease (3), and humankind has only been cultivating cereal
grains for approximately 10,000 years (2,4), which is but a brief moment in
evolutionary terms. Remember too, it is only a small population located in
the Near East, that has had that length of exposure to cereal grains (4);
most of the world has had agriculture for an even shorter period of time.
Neurological and auto-immune diseases, as well as malignancies, are
over-represented among celiacs (5), suggesting that glutens/gliadins may be
a major environmental contributor to such diseases. Yet this area of
investigation appears to have been avoided in research on these health
problems. One must wonder at the cause of this neglect of such an
important possibility.

There is abundant evidence connecting the advent of agriculture with
retardation of long bone growth, dental enamel hypoplasia, iron deficiency
anemia (indicated by porotic hyperostosis), juvenile osteoporosis, and joint
disease (18). Do these conditions sound familiar? Many are the commonest
signs of celiac disease, and they were apparently the rule, not the
exception, in cultures adapting to agriculture.


We know, from palenotologists' study of human remains from the ancient past,
that when a culture begins to cultivate cereal grains they experience
substantial reductions in height, which is variously reported as 5" and
6"(2,4). Clearly, the reduction is substantial and significant. We know,
too, that these remains demonstrate weaker bone structure (through
reductions in peak bone-mass) and evidence of articular damage(3).
Additionally, ancient Egyptians, who consumed a diet that would be
considered very "heart-healthy" in our culture, have left behind mummies
which clearly demonstrate atherosclerosis (7). While the evidence from the
ancients is compelling, there can always be counter-arguments and debates
when we are reaching back as far as 10,000 years into the past. Yet a few
marginal pockets of scientific enquiry have explored a few elements of
modern implications of this issue.

W.J.Lutz (4) has offered an alternative perspective on the "French Paradox."
(The "French Paradox" is the unusually low rate of death by myocardial
infarction among the French despite quite high per-capita rates of fat
consumption.) Dr. Lutz has studied the spread of agriculture through
Europe. He presents a picture whereby the spread of agriculture, and thus
the period of time a culture has been exposed to cereal grains, is
inversely related to the incidence of cardiovascular disease. The
underlying assumption, of course, is that the longer the exposure, the
greater the likelihood that those who were intolerant to these grains were
trimmed from the gene pool of such cultures; it seems that the less time a
culture has been exposed to gluten, the greater the portion of the
population that continues to develop cancers and cardiovascular disease.
(Lutz also provides similarly compelling data on the rates of breast cancer
mortality.)

This work is confirmed by Simmoon's observation that there is a negative
correlation between the frequency of antigen HLA-B8 and the length of time
wheat farming has been practised in various parts of Europe (19).


Another interesting study done in China produced what the investigators
found to be rather surprising results(8). In this investigation, the
researchers plotted the diets of more than 3500 rural Chinese women, and
measured their levels of SHBG (sex-hormone binding globulins). They were
very surprised to find that wheat consumption, and perhaps, reduced fish
consumption, were the strongest predictors of levels of SHBG, which would
indicate an increased risk of cardiovascular disease.

Another study has connected gluten with neurological illness (9). This group
of researchers tested 53 patients with neurological illness of unknown
origin for antibodies against gliadin. More than half of them (30 people)
demonstrated these antibodies. Nine of those folks proved to have celiac
disease, but the other 21 only demonstrated an immune response to gluten, of
a type that is often dismissed as meaningless. This study has some
far-reaching implications for neurological research.

Yet another indication that celiacs are not the only segment of the
population to suffer from the adverse effects of gluten is a study that was
carried out on a very small group of siblings of celiacs(10). When subjected
to rectal gluten challenge, half of the siblings showed an immune response
to gluten, but these results did not correlate with the hereditary
predictors of celiac disease.

As for the connection between autoimmunity and cereal grains, it is clear
and compelling. The theoretical perspective of molecular mimicry suggests
that gliadin-derived peptides, may activate the immune system against
collagenous tissues, and since intestinal permeability (not celiac disease)
is all that is required to allow the passage of these peptides into the
bloodstream, a significant number of many types of autoimmune diseases seem
likely to benefit from a gluten-free diet (11 ).

In total, then, there are several studies which demonstrate (often
coincidentally) that a much larger group than those with celiac disease are
mounting an immune response against gluten, and that this response is
causing or contributing to serious illness. Phytic acid in whole cereal
grains binds to minerals, including calcium. This chemical bond is not
broken in the GI tract. The net result is the binding and wasting of
much-needed dietary calcium, even among those whose immune systems can
tolerate gluten, and these grains may be implicated in osteoporosis (12).


I would now like to draw your attention back to the issue of malignancy.
_Medical Hypotheses_ will soon publish, a paper I have written which
suggests (among other things) that gluten may be implicated in a great many
cases of lymphoma (14). Gluten has been demonstrated to interfere with the
celiac patient's ability to mount an immune response to malignancies
(15,16,17). In my paper, I have postulated a dynamic whereby gluten may have
a similar effect in others who are simply sensitive to gluten, or who have a
sub-clinical form of this disease.

Ray Audette, a populist writer, has said that Stanislaw Tanchou "....gave
the first formula for predicting cancer risk. It was based on grain
consumption and was found to accurately calculate cancer rates in major
European cities. The more grain consumed, the greater the rate of cancer."
Tanchou's paper was delivered to the Paris Medical Society in 1843(20).

We hear all the time about pollution in the industrial world being the
source for modern man's high incidence of cancer. It is the chemical
additives, we are told, in the food we eat, that causes much of the
problem. Perhaps.

I would like to suggest that the evidence from antiquity, the pattern of the
spread of agriculture in Europe coinciding with the patterns of civilizatory
illnesses, the levels of SBHG associated with wheat consumption, the high
incidence of gliadin antibodies among those with neurological illnesses of
unknown origin, the sensitivity to gluten among siblings of celiacs in spite
of the absence of genetic indicators associated with celiac disease, and my
own investigation of the literature regarding lymphoma, all point to the
strong possibility that gluten is a dangerous substance to many more people
than just celiacs.


Sources:

1. Eaton B, Konner M, Shostak M, " Stone Agers in the Fast Lane: Chronic
Degenerative Diseases in Evolutionary Perspective" _The American Journal of
Medicine_ 1988; 84:739-749

2. Eaton S, Konner M, "Paleolithic Nutrition" _NEJM_ 1985; 312(5): 283-289

3. Eaton S, Nelson D, "Calcium in evolutionary perspective" _Am. J. Clin.
Nutr._1991; 54: 281S - 287S

4. Lutz W J, "The Colonisation of Europe and Our Western Diseases" _Medical
Hypotheses_ 1995; 45: 115-120

5. Lindeberg S, et al. "Cardiovascular risk factors in a Melanesian
population apparently free from stroke and ischaemic heart disease:
the Kitava study" _J Intern Med_ 1994 Sep.

6. Lewin R, "A Revolution of Ideas in Agricultural Origins" _Science_ 1988;
240: 984-986

7. Zimmerman M, "The paleopathology of the cardiovascular system" _Tex Heart
Inst J_ 1993; 20(4): 252-257

8. Gates et. al. "Association of dietary factors and selected plasma
variables with sex hormone-binding globulin in rural Chinese women"
Am J Clin Nutr 1996; 63: 22-31.

9. Hadjivassiliou M, Gibson A, Davies-Jones G, Lobo A, Stephenson T,
Milford-Ward A, "Does cryptic gluten sensitivity play a part in neurological
illness?" _Lancet_ 1996; 347: 369-371

10. Troncone R, Greco L, Mayer M, Mazzarella G, Maiuri L, Congia M, Frau F,
deVirgilis S, Auricchio S, "In Siblings of Celiac Children, Rectal Gluten
Challenge Reveals Gluten Sensitization Not Restricted to Celiac HLA"
_Gastroenterology_ 1996; 111: 318-324

11. Ostenstad B, Dybwad A, Lea T, Forre O, Vinje O, Sioud M, "Evidence for
monoclonal expansion of synovial T cells bearing V Alpha 2.1/V beta 5.5
gene segments and recognizing a syntehtic peptide that shares homology with
a number of putative autoantigens"

12. Lindeberg, Staffan, personal correspondence Feb, 1997

14. Hoggan R, "Considering Wheat, Rye, and Barley Proteins as Aids to
Carcinogens" _Medical Hypotheses_ In Press 1997.

15. Maclaurin B, Cooke W, Ling N, "Impaired lymphocyte reactivity against
tumour cells in patients with coeliac disease" _Gut_ 1971; 12: 794-800

16. Egan L, Walsh S, Stevens F, Connolly C, Egan E, McCarthy C,
"Celiac-Associated Lymphoma" _Journal of Clinical Gastroenterology_ 1995;
21(2): 123-129

17. Swinson C, Slavin G, Coles E, Booth C, "Coeliac Disease and Malignancy"
_Lancet_ 1983; Jan 15: 111-115

18. Armelagos G, Van Gerven D, Martin D, Huss-Ashmore R, "Effects of
Nutritional Change on the Skeletal Biology of Northeast African (Sudanese
Nubian) Populations" _From Hunters to Farmers The Causes and Consequences of
Food Production in Africa_ Clark & Brandt (eds.) 1984; II: 37-146

19. Simoons F, "Celiac disease as a geographic problem" _Food, Nutrition
and Evolution_ 1981; eds. Walcher D, and Kretchmer N, Masson Publishing,
New York

20. Audette R, lowcarb listserv at: <lowcarb@manual.com>, March 11, 1997
from: Vilhjalmur Stefansson's book _Cancer Disease of
Civilization_ 1960; Hill and Wang, New York, NY.

Background Sources:

21. Davis D, "Paleolithic Diet, Evolution, and Carcinogens" _Science_ 1987;
238: 1633-1634

22. Carpenter K, "Protein requirements of adults from an evolutionary
perspective" _Am J Clin Nutr_1992; 55: 913-917

23. Eaton S, "Humans, Lipids and Evolution" _LIPIDS_ 1992; 27(10): 814-819

24. Troncone R, Greco L, Mayer M, Mazzarella G, Maiuri L, Congia M, Frau F,
deVirgilis S, Auricchio S, "In Siblings of Celiac Children, Rectal Gluten
Challenge Reveals Gluten Sensitization Not Restricted to Celiac HLA"
_Gastroenterology_ 1996; 111: 318-324

25. Marsh M, "Bone Disease and Gluten Sensitivity: Time to Act, to Treat,
and to Prevent" _The American Journal of Gastroenterology_ 1994; 89(12):
2105-2107

26. Young T, Hochman R, Scopelliti J, "Celiac Disease and Arthropathy: Case
Report and Literature Review" _The Guthrie Journal_ 1993; 62(3): 99-104

27. Lindh E, Ljunghall S, Larsson K, Lavo B, " Screening for antibodies
against gliadin in patients with osteoporosis" _Journal of Internal
Medicine_ 1992; 231: 403-406

28. de Boer W, Maas M, Tytgat G, "Disappearance of Mesenteric
Lymphadenopathy with Gluten-Free Diet in Celiac Sprue" _Journal of Clinical
Gastroenterology_ 1993; 16(4): 317-319

29. Mathus-Vliegen E, Halteren H, Tytgat G, "Malignant lymphoma in coeliac
disease: various manifestations with distinct symptomatology and prognosis?"
_Journal of Internal Medicine_ 1994; 236: 43-49

30. Rosenberg S, "The Low-Grade Non-Hodgkin's Lymphomas: Challenges and
Opportunities" _Journal of Clinical Oncology" 1985; 3(3): 299-310

28. Swinson C, Coles E, Slavin G, Booth C, "Coeliac Disease and Malignancy"
_Lancet_ 1983; Jan 15: 111-115

31. Wright D, Jones D, Clark H, Mead G, Hodges E, Howell W, "Is adult-onset
coeliac disease due to a low-grade lymphoma of intraepithelial T
lymphocytes?" _Lancet_ 1991; 337: 1373-1374

32. Gouldie R, Lee F, "Coeliac disease and lymphoma" _Lancet_ 1991; 338: 570

33. Freeman H, Weinstein W, Shnitka T, Piercey J, Wensel R, " Pirmary
abdominal Lymphoma" _The American Journal of Medicine_ 1977; 63: 585-594

34. Holmes G, Piror P, Lane M, Pope D, Allan R, "Malignancy in coeliac
disease-effect of a gluten free diet" _Gut_ 1989; 30: 333-338

35. Sturgess R, Ciclitira P, "Coeliac disease and lymphoma" _Lancet_ 1991;
338: 318-319

36. Egan L, Walsh S, Stevens F, Connolly C, Egan E, McCarthy C, _Journal of
Clinical Gastroenterology_ 1995; 21(20: 123-129

37. Lopes P, Morris D, Galbraith P, Lillicrap D, Pross H,
"Lymphoproliferative Disease of "Lak Cell" precursor Large Granular
Lymphocytes in Association with Celiac Disease" _American Journal of
Hematology_ 1993; 43: 116-122

38. Black, Paul "Psychoneuroimmunology: Brain and Immunology" _Scientific
American: SCIENCE & MEDICINE_ 1995; 2(6): 16-25

39. Kapur A, Isaacs P, Kelsey P, "Linear IgA dermatosis, coeliac disease,
and extralinear B cell lymphoma" _Gut_ 1995; 37: 731-733

40. Ilyas M, Niedobitek G, Agathanggelou A, Barry R, Read A, Tierney R,
Young L, Rooney N, "NON-HODGKIN'S LYMPHOMA, COELIAC DISEASE, AND
EPSTIEN-BARR VIRUS: A STUDY OF 13 CASES OF ENTEROPATHY-ASSOCIATED T- AND
B-CELL LYMPHOMA" _Journal of Pathology_ 1995; 177: 115-122

41. Cooke W, Holmes G, _Coeliac Disease_ 1984; Churchill Livingstone, NY

 

Re: Larry, Re: Celiac disease and depression McPac

Posted by Larry Hoover on July 1, 2003, at 9:31:27

In reply to Larry, Re: Celiac disease and depression, posted by McPac on June 30, 2003, at 13:59:31

> Lar, MIGHT the easier solution be HEALING the leaky gut in the first place (and then being able to eat whatever WITHOUT the reaction)? Another site on-line (Dr. Stoll) harps on this constantly....he (and other followers) STRONGLY emphasizes SKILLED RELAXATION as one of THE main components of healing a leaky gut AND overall mental/physical health. Have you ever looked into Skilled Relaxation Lar? Many SWEAR by it. Another HUGE problem he talks about constantly is "bracing" (don't know if you're aware of this concept). Sooooooo many ideas/possible causes/possible solutions/theories, etc.....you'd have to live to be 1,000 yrs old to try them all out! Thoughts Lar? Thanks!!

Just for the record, this Dr. Stoll is not the Dr. Stoll of fish oil fame.

I've read through most of the entire site, and my gut reaction is "fringe", i.e. the fringe of reality. Some of the concepts are bizarre, like the idea that cerebro-spinal fluid is circulated via pulses of the skull bones. Gahh!

Now, the utility of meditation in controlling stress is without question, IMHO. Although I've not heard the term Skilled Relaxation before, I'm certainly familiar with the outcome. However, I don't see how it could possibly cure leaky gut syndrome.

Lar

 

vegetarianism/mental health problems?

Posted by bookgurl99 on July 1, 2003, at 10:22:43

In reply to Lar, Re: Celiac disease and depression, posted by McPac on June 30, 2003, at 1:27:17

This discussion is interesting to me for a few reasons.

First, when I was 21, I became a vegetarian. I remained so for 4 years. Two years into it, at age 23, I developed symptoms of OCD, for which I took Serzone. Two years after that, at 25, I was dx'd with Hashimoto's thyroiditis, treated, started eating meat again, and now at 27 no longer have the ocd symptoms and am not on meds.

Meanwhile, a friend is developing some symptoms of psychosis (http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/social/20030617/msgs/237122.html), and this is approximately 7 months after she switched to a vegan diet. I wonder if she could be affected by an allergy to something that she commonly eats, or may be gluten intolerant and is 'filling up' on glutens much of the time?

Maybe I could use suggest that she consider getting tested for these things? Even without the link, she has a very sensitive body and suffers from digestive problems.

 

Re: vegetarianism/mental health problems? bookgurl99

Posted by Larry Hoover on July 1, 2003, at 11:22:38

In reply to vegetarianism/mental health problems?, posted by bookgurl99 on July 1, 2003, at 10:22:43

> This discussion is interesting to me for a few reasons.
>
> First, when I was 21, I became a vegetarian. I remained so for 4 years. Two years into it, at age 23, I developed symptoms of OCD, for which I took Serzone. Two years after that, at 25, I was dx'd with Hashimoto's thyroiditis, treated, started eating meat again, and now at 27 no longer have the ocd symptoms and am not on meds.
>
> Meanwhile, a friend is developing some symptoms of psychosis (http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/social/20030617/msgs/237122.html), and this is approximately 7 months after she switched to a vegan diet. I wonder if she could be affected by an allergy to something that she commonly eats, or may be gluten intolerant and is 'filling up' on glutens much of the time?
>
> Maybe I could use suggest that she consider getting tested for these things? Even without the link, she has a very sensitive body and suffers from digestive problems.

Grains are certainly a central component of a vegan diet (without a whole lot of effort expended on their exclusion). As an hypothesis for the symptoms, gluten reactivity is quite a reasonable consideration. Moreover, the fact that you describe her as "sensitive" and having digestive problems, is corroborative in itself.

Lar

P.S. Hashimoto's is a very poorly understood syndrome. Just thinking through what I seem to understand about it, it is certainly possible that dietary factors (e.g. gluten reactivity) may trigger it. Hmmmm......

It took me ten seconds to find this:

Eur J Endocrinol. 2002 Apr;146(4):479-83.

Markers of potential coeliac disease in patients with Hashimoto's thyroiditis.

Valentino R, Savastano S, Maglio M, Paparo F, Ferrara F, Dorato M, Lombardi G, Troncone R.

CNR, Experimental Endocrinology and Oncology Center (CEOS), Department of Cellular and Molecular Biology and Pathology, University Federico II, Naples, Italy. troncone@unina.it

OBJECTIVE: Coeliac disease (CD) is associated with autoimmune thyroid disease. Gluten sensitivity represents a spectrum, with at one end cases with severe gluten-dependent enteropathy, and at the other subjects with minor signs of deranged mucosal immune response. The aim of this paper was to look for signs of minor small bowel injury and immunohistochemical markers of gluten sensitivity in a group of patients with Hashimoto's disease. SUBJECTS AND METHODS: Fourteen patients with Hashimoto's thyroiditis without serological evidence of CD underwent immunohistochemical analysis of jejunal biopsies. RESULTS: In 6/14 cases (43%) an increased density of gammadelta T cell receptor bearing intra-epithelial lymphocytes was found. In 6/14 (43%) signs of mucosal T cell activation (presence of interleukin 2 (IL2) receptor (CD25) on lamina propria T cells and/or expression of human lymphocyte antigen (HLA)-DR molecules on crypt epithelial cells) were noted. In 4 out of 6 such cases, HLA haplotypes were described in association with CD. CONCLUSION: A significant proportion of patients with Hashimoto's thyroiditis present signs of 'potential' CD and of activated mucosal T cell immunity. The gluten dependence of such findings remains to be ascertained.

 

Re: vegetarianism/mental health problems? Larry Hoover

Posted by johnj on July 1, 2003, at 17:39:08

In reply to Re: vegetarianism/mental health problems? bookgurl99, posted by Larry Hoover on July 1, 2003, at 11:22:38

Hi Larry,

How is everything going? On the road still? Thanks for this thread it is very interesting. I haven't been around very much since I have been feeling better and just have had many demands after work that I can't get to a computer :(

I have something interesting to add and ask you.
I have been told over the past few weeks that I look thin. I didn't want to make a fuss about it but I weighed myself...I have dropped 12 pounds, from 170 to 158. I am a skinny guy but I just thought it was due to sitting so much and not much excercise. Well, I was at my mom's house and she was telling me about a friend who they found out was allergic to wheat. I did some digging and I fit some criteria such as I have lost most of my ass and it hurts to sit.

I have noticed one thing and that is since I have added sublingual B-12 and a chewable B-complex, which I let dissolve in my mouth, I have felt really damn good and sleep is good too. I am still on 15 mg of remeron so I don't know if it was the remeron or the vitamins. I do suspect it is both, but maybe malabsorption could be a culprit.

The fact is without my fiber ceral, which contains wheat, I am very constipated. I will wait and see if I start to gain any weight back, but am at a loss at how to fix my diet so that I am regular. I allready eat lots of fruit and not much junk so I am at a loss. I mentioned this to my therapist and she wants to watch the weight issue closely. I just don't want to seem like I am searching for a biological reason for my depression. I know it is a big part but I don't even know if their are accurate tests for these things.

I am definately keeping tabs of my vitamins, they are essential. I think the sublingual types offer an advantage. What do you think?

Thanks and take care, and if you are on the road I hope you stay safe.

johnj

 

Re: vegetarianism/mental health problems?

Posted by bookgurl99 on July 1, 2003, at 17:51:50

In reply to Re: vegetarianism/mental health problems? Larry Hoover, posted by johnj on July 1, 2003, at 17:39:08

> I just don't want to seem like I am searching for a biological reason for my depression. I know it is a big part but I don't even know if their are accurate tests for these things.
>

Well, there _are_ accurate tests for wheat/gluten intolerance. My friend's brother was just diagnosed through a blood test and a biopsy to confirm. He was really glad, as he was becoming increasingly thin and having either constipation or having to run to the bathroom all the time.

Maybe if you got the wheat out of your diet, everything else would come out more .. . smoothly. :D

 

Re: vegetarianism/mental health problems?

Posted by Larry Hoover on July 3, 2003, at 13:41:01

In reply to Re: vegetarianism/mental health problems? Larry Hoover, posted by johnj on July 1, 2003, at 17:39:08

> Hi Larry,
>
> How is everything going? On the road still? Thanks for this thread it is very interesting. I haven't been around very much since I have been feeling better and just have had many demands after work that I can't get to a computer :(

Feeling better is :), not :(.

Ya, I'm about a third of the way through a six-week stretch on the road. Just got in.

> I have something interesting to add and ask you.
> I have been told over the past few weeks that I look thin. I didn't want to make a fuss about it but I weighed myself...I have dropped 12 pounds, from 170 to 158. I am a skinny guy but I just thought it was due to sitting so much and not much excercise. Well, I was at my mom's house and she was telling me about a friend who they found out was allergic to wheat. I did some digging and I fit some criteria such as I have lost most of my ass and it hurts to sit.
>
> I have noticed one thing and that is since I have added sublingual B-12 and a chewable B-complex, which I let dissolve in my mouth, I have felt really damn good and sleep is good too.

Good news.

> I am still on 15 mg of remeron so I don't know if it was the remeron or the vitamins.

I'd go with the vitamins, but hey!, I'm biased.

>I do suspect it is both, but maybe malabsorption could be a culprit.

I think malabsorption is far more common than everybody thinks it is.

> The fact is without my fiber ceral, which contains wheat, I am very constipated.

There are lots of ways to get fiber without resorting to whole grains. Psyllium (Metamucil) is soluble fiber.

>I will wait and see if I start to gain any weight back, but am at a loss at how to fix my diet so that I am regular. I allready eat lots of fruit and not much junk so I am at a loss. I mentioned this to my therapist and she wants to watch the weight issue closely. I just don't want to seem like I am searching for a biological reason for my depression.

???? Why?

>I know it is a big part but I don't even know if their are accurate tests for these things.

If you keep losing weight, you need to see a doctor for an examination.

> I am definately keeping tabs of my vitamins, they are essential. I think the sublingual types offer an advantage. What do you think?

Sublingual forms are advantageous if you have intestinal malabsorption, or if you've been chronically depleted. For e.g. NADH, it's to avoid digestion (either sublingual or enteric-coated, to avoid stomach acid).

> Thanks and take care, and if you are on the road I hope you stay safe.
>
> johnj

Well, I'm always safe. It's the other drivers.....

Glad you're feeling better, John.

Lar

 

Re: exorphins from grains and milk

Posted by Larry Hoover on July 4, 2003, at 19:43:42

In reply to Re: vegetarianism/mental health problems?, posted by bookgurl99 on July 1, 2003, at 17:51:50

I've just done a couple hours of web-searching on exorphins, protein fragments from common foods which have opioid-receptor activity.

There are far more of these peptides (proteins) than I had previously thought, and they are found in other foods, too. I'm going to have to give some serious thought to trying a grain/dairy exclusion diet, just to see if it affects my sense of well-being. My sister is a celiac, so it is quite possible I share that genetic trait.

What was most disconcerting about my search results, however, wasn't just discovering how commonplace these exorphin peptides are. No. What was incredibly disconcerting was discovering that food industry scientists discuss ways to purposefully process foodstuffs in such a way as to maximize the exorphin content. They even created a possible name for these derivatives, "formones", shortened from food hormones. It makes the food ingredient "modified milk ingredients" take on a new, and scary, meaning. Just what the hell is really being added when "modified milk ingredients" are an ingredient in a processed foodstuff?

I'm troubled by this subject right now. I'm going to go watch TV.

Lar

 

Re: exorphins from grains and milk

Posted by Bookgurl99 on July 4, 2003, at 23:08:09

In reply to Re: exorphins from grains and milk, posted by Larry Hoover on July 4, 2003, at 19:43:42

Larry,

this is quite fascinating. i never knew that exorphins existed. makes me wonder if some of the 'no-grain/low-grain' new age-y folks have been right all along.

books

p.s. now relax. :D

 

Re: Larry, Re: Celiac disease and depression Larry Hoover

Posted by galkeepinon on July 5, 2003, at 1:55:49

In reply to Re: Larry, Re: Celiac disease and depression McPac, posted by Larry Hoover on July 1, 2003, at 9:31:27

hi, is celiac disease the same as wheat gluten intolerance? I was wondering if you had a link where you got this info-I am very interested in this. I was told I may have it and wanted to read up. I will also do a search.
Any help would be great.
thanks!


> > Lar, MIGHT the easier solution be HEALING the leaky gut in the first place (and then being able to eat whatever WITHOUT the reaction)? Another site on-line (Dr. Stoll) harps on this constantly....he (and other followers) STRONGLY emphasizes SKILLED RELAXATION as one of THE main components of healing a leaky gut AND overall mental/physical health. Have you ever looked into Skilled Relaxation Lar? Many SWEAR by it. Another HUGE problem he talks about constantly is "bracing" (don't know if you're aware of this concept). Sooooooo many ideas/possible causes/possible solutions/theories, etc.....you'd have to live to be 1,000 yrs old to try them all out! Thoughts Lar? Thanks!!
>
> Just for the record, this Dr. Stoll is not the Dr. Stoll of fish oil fame.
>
> I've read through most of the entire site, and my gut reaction is "fringe", i.e. the fringe of reality. Some of the concepts are bizarre, like the idea that cerebro-spinal fluid is circulated via pulses of the skull bones. Gahh!
>
> Now, the utility of meditation in controlling stress is without question, IMHO. Although I've not heard the term Skilled Relaxation before, I'm certainly familiar with the outcome. However, I don't see how it could possibly cure leaky gut syndrome.
>
> Lar

 

Re: Celiac disease and depression..bookgurl99

Posted by Deb R on July 5, 2003, at 4:25:05

In reply to Re: Celiac disease and depression, posted by bookgurl99 on July 1, 2003, at 1:10:33

Hi Bookgurl and thanks for your post, I get more and more hopeful the more I read. I know I shouldnt get too excited about it all, but it just seems to me that there is something in this.

Deb.

 

Re: vegetarianism/mental health problems?..all...

Posted by Deb R on July 5, 2003, at 4:39:04

In reply to Re: vegetarianism/mental health problems?, posted by Larry Hoover on July 3, 2003, at 13:41:01

Hi to everyone who has written posts - I have been away from the 'net' for a few days and was very happy to see so many posts and lots of info. I have copied all the posts and will have another good read...thanks everyone so much.

Will be in touch,

Deb.


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