![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 38. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by daisym on April 3, 2006, at 23:55:35
My therapist told me today that I'm narrowing my circle again, pulling in and trying to handle stuff all by myself. I nodded agreement. I just feel that I've deepened things to a level of aloneness, that the stuff I'm looking at is ugly and so personal that I don't know how to share it, or get support for it. Not even from him really. He asked me about the board and I said I was "dropping and running" -- writing posts and then abandoning them because they are just so painful. All the replies are nice but they are too nice, I ache when I read them. I told him I'm not present enough to be of any help to anyone, and so I can't ask for it either. He asked me if that was my plan for therapy these days - to drop stuff out and run from it. Yup, sounds like a good one to me. I told him he should be very afraid right now, because all this anger and anxiety and sadness are coming at him. I'm having outbursts in therapy that are completely beyond my control. It terrifies me. I'm afraid I'm going to hurt him or someone else I care about with all my hostility. He says he can take care of himself and that he doesn't want me to push him away. How can I not?
I can barely keep my eyes open when I try to write these days. I'm sorry. I wish I could support everyone more but I can't. I'm just not the kind to only take. So I guess I should just take a Babble Break. It feels true as I write it. I want you all to help take care of my friends, and since you are all my friends, take care of each other.
Love and hugs,
Daisy
Posted by LadyBug on April 4, 2006, at 0:21:37
In reply to Time for a Pause, posted by daisym on April 3, 2006, at 23:55:35
Oh Daisy,
I'm so sorry this is such a hard place your in right now.
Do what is best for you. Dont worry about not being able to give, I'm not good at it, ever. I enjoy reading what you write and I always learn from it. I don't expect to have anything from you that you don't have to give.
I wish it were easier for you right now. I hope you'll continue to post about what's going on in your therapy. Does it help you to write about it here? If so, then please don't stop. If it takes too much energy, then you are right to take a break from babble.
Too bad we can't take a break from life!!!! Sorry but mine is far from great. My marriage is more pain than I can handle. I'm grateful for my T. but I wish I could have her in real life. But that isn't going to happen.
Take care~~~
Hugs Daisy
LadyBug
Posted by Racer on April 4, 2006, at 0:56:24
In reply to Time for a Pause, posted by daisym on April 3, 2006, at 23:55:35
OK, you think the replies are too nice? Too kind? How about I offer a little Tough Love, then?
What you're talking about is running away, and you know it. It's scary, and it hurts, and I'm sure you are afraid you'll blast off into violence sometimes. But you have a support network, no matter how hard it is for you to make use of it.
Go back and read the archives -- all the people here who offer the most support and affection to others, I'd bet, have also gone through periods in which they do nothing except beg for help and support from others. You can look at it from one of two perspectives: either it all comes out in the wash, or there's no score keeper here. If this is your time to need, it's someone else's time to give. Sort of a microcosm of the larger world, you know? This gives you practice for real life, where I'll bet the last time you asked someone for their support on a personal level was when you were about three years old. And yet, in that time, haven't you offered a heck of a lot of support to others? Often without their asking for it?
Daisy, I'm so sorry this is so hard, and so frightening for you. And I'll bet you're ready to drop it all and walk away. Same way, when your kids were young, you probably had days when you wanted to walk away from them, too. But just as you took care of your children, you get to take care of YOU now. And somehow, that's even harder than taking care of anyone else. But I know you well enough to know that you don't back down from a challenge.
So, stick around. See what people have to offer, and what you can offer back -- if anything. And if you ain't got nothin' right now, s'OK. You'll have something another time. Babble is a little like Stone Soup, you know? We all bring what we can, when we can -- and that includes our pain and our needs.
Hey -- when your kids were young, did you think less of them for needing you? Did you think they were pathetic because they didn't meet all their own needs? So, uh, could you tell me why it's so different for you? Besides you needing to be perfect, that is?
And Daisy? Your T is telling you the truth, that he can take care of himself. Hard as it is, trust him on that one, eh? Hasn't he proven himself so far?
xoxo
Posted by All Done on April 4, 2006, at 1:19:17
In reply to Time for a Pause, posted by daisym on April 3, 2006, at 23:55:35
If you need us, we're here. That's one of the joys of Babble. There are quite a few of us. The odds of at least a few Babblers being in a good enough place to offer support are pretty high.
There is no reason you should be alone. You have a wonderful T, who *can* take care of himself, and lots of us who care about you.
I sent you an IM that probably should have been an email, but when I get to talking, well, you know...
Safe Hugs, (((Daisy)))
Laurie
P.S. And look! I have brownies for you... :)
Posted by Racer on April 4, 2006, at 2:40:54
In reply to Re: I'm with Racer on this one » daisym, posted by All Done on April 4, 2006, at 1:19:17
> >
> P.S. And look! I have brownies for you... :)
>
>Can I come share Daisy's brownies? I won't be able to eat them, because that's still kinda beyond me, but can I look at them, and smell them, and generally be totally insane?
Thank you very much for your time and attention to this serious matter. You will now be returned to your regularly scheduled programming...
Posted by fallsfall on April 4, 2006, at 8:56:51
In reply to Re: I'm with Racer on this one ? daisym, posted by All Done on April 4, 2006, at 1:19:17
I'm with Racer on this one, too. (Didn't she say exactly the right thing!!)
No, you don't get to run away and hide. We love you too much. We're in this for the long run.
Those falls, they just keep on falling.
You are NOT too much or too needy or too anything except Daisy. And being too Daisy is a wonderful thing.
Not going to let you run away.
Posted by Dinah on April 4, 2006, at 9:05:09
In reply to Time for a Pause, posted by daisym on April 3, 2006, at 23:55:35
Daisy, I don't really see your posts that way. Sometimes I think you're one of the Babblers most helpful to me *because* you share your struggles. I mean, I'm sorry you have them, naturally. But you have a way of describing them so that I at least, and I'm sure others, read them with a jolt of understanding.
So a Babble break is fine if you're finding it difficult here. There are reasons that happens.
But if you worry that we find you difficult, or that we don't think you pull your weight, well.... I hate to say this, but you're mistaken. Your giving can be in your sharing, too. Not all gifts look alike.
And when you feel more like it, you can give other gifts as well. You certainly have in the past. But whether or not you ever do in the future, please don't devalue the gifts you do give.
Posted by B2chica on April 4, 2006, at 9:14:46
In reply to Time for a Pause, posted by daisym on April 3, 2006, at 23:55:35
honestly i must say that even if you don't feel you help people here. that well, i feel better reading your posts. even if you aren't well, there's something about daisy that i need. i guess just knowing you are here helps me. and what you said is one thing i like best about babble, that you can write posts and if it's too hard you don't have to read the responses. you can reply when you are up to it and just read when that's all you can do.
and if he tells you that he can take care of himse;lf and don't worry about hurting him, i would trust him at his word. this is a hard time for you. you need to lean on someone and express unknown emotions and let out scarey ones...who better than a therapist.and 1)you do support all here...when you can, that's all we ask. 2)don't put a burden on yourself about us...we ok. and 3)you are the least 'taker' of anyone i know. you give and give here. don't Ever think you are just a taker! i can't even tell you how much your words have helped me here. your experience has made a difference in my life and i could never thank you enough for that....see? you weren't even trying were you...and you did it.
however, if you feel you need to take a break from babble you must do what's right for you.
i will miss you. please take time for you but come back when you can even if it's just to say hi.
Love and hugs to you too (((((((((((((daisy))))))))))))))b2c.
Posted by TherapyGirl on April 4, 2006, at 9:41:16
In reply to Re: Time for a Pause » daisym, posted by B2chica on April 4, 2006, at 9:14:46
Daisy, I agree with everyone else. Take a break if you need it for YOU, but don't do it on our behalf. I think you'd be surprised how much your posts help the rest of us. Your writing hits home for me, as Dinah said, as not much else does. When I'm hiding and stuffing and denying, all I have to do is read one of your posts to know that that should be my goal -- letting it out, in any way, shape or form that I can. That I can, like you, keep going in the face of all the ugliness and know, somewhere deep inside, that I will come out the other side. I believe *you* will come out the other side an even more amazing person than you are right now.
Posted by TherapyGirl on April 4, 2006, at 10:07:29
In reply to Re: Time for a Pause » B2chica, posted by TherapyGirl on April 4, 2006, at 9:41:16
Posted by pegasus on April 4, 2006, at 10:46:16
In reply to Time for a Pause, posted by daisym on April 3, 2006, at 23:55:35
"I told him I'm not present enough to be of any help to anyone, and so I can't ask for it either."
Now, Daisy, if one of us said this, you'd be the first to tell us that this is not the way babble works. Because it is not, in fact, the way babble works, thank goodness. Are you listening to me? You know I'm right. Those rules you're stating are your own internal rules, not anything that your friends at babble have agreed to. You're cheating us of our opportunity to help, if you don't let us help you when you need it and we want to help.
Imagine what it would be like if everyone you have access to refused to let you help them in any way. Wouldn't that stink?
So, please trust us to be able to choose for ourselves whether/when we want to offer help. This is a voluntary board; We are not burdened by participating. Quite the opposite.
And even if babble did work that way, you have contributed so much over the years that you have a lifetime pass now for asking for help.
Please take good care of yourself. We all look forward to you being among us.
(((Daisy)))
peg
Posted by All Done on April 4, 2006, at 10:55:47
In reply to Darn it! » All Done, posted by Racer on April 4, 2006, at 2:40:54
> Can I come share Daisy's brownies? I won't be able to eat them, because that's still kinda beyond me, but can I look at them, and smell them, and generally be totally insane?
You can only share them if Daisy says it's okay. I'm guessing she will, cuz she's nice that way. :) But if she decides she doesn't want to share them today, she doesn't have to. (And then I'll bake some other wonderfully delicious...umm, pretty and smellarific...treat for you. :))
> Thank you very much for your time and attention to this serious matter. You will now be returned to your regularly scheduled programming...This has been a test of the Emergency Baking System. In the event of an actual emergency, please run to your nearest computer and request your favorite baked treat from Laurie. (This means you too, Daisy.)
Posted by Daisym on April 4, 2006, at 11:41:53
In reply to Time for a Pause, posted by daisym on April 3, 2006, at 23:55:35
a "lifetime pass" made me smile and gasp...do I need it for a lifetime?! (I want it, but that is a different story.)
I didn't know I could hurt like this.
I am carrying around this image of me all balled up on my therapist's couch, beyond words, beyond tears, just sitting trying to survive all the pain, not knowing how to let him help me. Or sitting in front of this computer, literally my lifeline at times, and afraid to touch the keys because I don't know what is going to come out.
I discovered a year or more ago that I could love really, really deeply. And with purity. It was amazing to discover this at my age. Now I'm on the flip side and feeling a despair and anguish that takes my breath away. I think I truly understand the term, "Dark Night of the Soul." It isn't heart break...it is soul searing. There is pain in my body that includes a crushing weight on my heart. At times it is hard to breathe. And there are ghosts in my most private parts, feelings that shouldn't be there...should never have been there. It is sad that the most basic human reflexes became painful reminders of the assaults on that young body. The scars run deep. The fear is embedded in the scars. I know we are opening these wounds to clean them so that they can finally heal properly. But like any surgery, there is a risk that the procedure will kill the patient. I think that is happening right now, I hear the oxygen alarms going off. It is up to me to take a breath, and another, and another. But I forget how sometimes...I want to hold my breath against all the pain.
I think the worst part is that as much as it hurts, I want it to hurt. I want my feelings to match the horror in my head. For once, FOR ONCE, it feels like my head and heart are in sync. It might be all bad, but at least it matches. The exhausting confusion has stilled. For now anyway.
I've felt almost this bad before. I think that is why it takes the form of me being curled up in my therapist's office. And it isn't even my favorite office where I see myself. These current feelings are very similar to the ones I had when I first began to get big chunks of memories dropping down. All I wanted to do then was just sit in my therapist's office and absorb his strength and comfort. It was the first time I had a lot of sessions in the "other" office. He told me during that time that it didn't matter what he said, it was the fact that I could hear his voice and feel his presence. And the grief that was coming up was allowed. He didn't shush me or demand that the tears stop. So I wanted to be with him, because I didn't know how to be with all of this alone. And he let me be with him, as much as I needed to be.
The difference is that this time I do know how to be with it alone. I think I'm at a place on this journey where the path narrows and you can only pass single file. And I have to go first. I know he is behind me, and you guys too, so that if I fall on this path, it won't be long before someone finds me and helps me get back up. And being behind me gives me that nudge to keep going forward. If I had to follow, I wouldn't. I couldn't. I can't send someone into the depths of this pain for me, ahead of me. I can't stand the thought of losing someone I care about to this monster.
Yes, that's it. It is monster pain. And monsters hurt people. They get enraged, they roar and destroy without thought. So I need to face the monster alone, to engage it one on one. I'm terrified. I'm not sure I'll win. I probably will need to back up again to find safety among you guys, to get stronger and try this again. And again. And again.
First I have to uncurl from the couch. I have to figure out how. Because...I didn't know I could hurt like this.
Posted by annierose on April 4, 2006, at 12:05:02
In reply to More explanation, posted by Daisym on April 4, 2006, at 11:41:53
You are fighting an honorable battle. You will win. You will destroy those monsters one by one. Your T will help hold them still so you can aim those daggers more directly.
We are all behind you on your single file line, gently nudging you forward. It's okay to rest, to pause.
You are so worth love. That love you found is within you. You are love.
Whenever you need any of us, we will be there for you. Just as you have been there for me. You are so giving. I know you don't want to hear that, but you give all the time.
We won't let you run away. We'll keeping running beside you --- I haven't been working out like crazy for nothing. I have endurance. But I do respect your need for privacy, for wanting to beat these demons alone. Just let your T help you. He went to monster school. He knows how to destroy those pesky devils. It isn't fun, it's hard, but working together, I just know you can do it!!
((((((((( Daisy )))))))))))))))
Posted by fallsfall on April 4, 2006, at 12:15:06
In reply to More explanation, posted by Daisym on April 4, 2006, at 11:41:53
(((((Daisy)))))
I'll sit on the floor next to his couch and smooth your hair. I'll sing a soft song if you want. I'll just sit there and be with you. You don't have to be alone.
I understand about the single file. But we are right behind you. RIGHT behind you. Maybe you should wear a hooded sweatshirt, so I can hold on to the hood. That way you have your hands free, but I can pull you back if things get too dangerous.
Please let me stay with you.
I love you,
Falls
Posted by All Done on April 4, 2006, at 12:21:02
In reply to More explanation, posted by Daisym on April 4, 2006, at 11:41:53
(((Daisy))),
I'm not exactly sure why you think you have to do this alone. Who said the path narrows to one lane at any point in your journey? You've been through this alone once before and that never should have happened. You don't have to go through it alone this time. In fact, I don't know that you *should* be alone. Strength in numbers, right?
There is no shame in needing someone else through *all* of this. It isn't a closed-book exam where you can't get help from your teacher or classmates. There is no one waiting to see if you can do this on your own except you. And why? What will you prove to yourself? What will you gain from doing it on your own? Why are you worried about protecting everyone else? You are the one who needed protection and didn't get it.
Your T is there for you. I don't think you need to uncurl from the couch just yet, if you're not ready.
(((((Daisy)))))
Laurie
Posted by Dinah on April 4, 2006, at 12:50:23
In reply to More explanation, posted by Daisym on April 4, 2006, at 11:41:53
How does your therapist feel about your doing it alone single file theory? I'm not saying you're not right. Sometimes we have to trust out gut.
But my therapist would fight me on that one. He thinks isolating is a very bad thing, and he dislikes that I would have to lose Babble if I moved and lost him almost more than he dislikes my losing him.
Posted by madeline on April 4, 2006, at 13:15:37
In reply to Re: More explanation » Daisym, posted by annierose on April 4, 2006, at 12:05:02
Annierose,
The beauty and power of your post nearly took my breath away. I think I'm going to save it.Daisy,
I am with Annierose, I have a great pair of track shoes, and I can run right with you. If there are parts you have to go through by yourself, then go, but by all means go knowing that you are loved. Very very loved.
Posted by Poet on April 4, 2006, at 13:15:55
In reply to More explanation, posted by Daisym on April 4, 2006, at 11:41:53
((((((Daisy))))))
I understand you wanting to go down that narrow path alone. I think you're a lot like me: I struggle in frustration to be strong enough not to depend on anyone else, be it my T or people here.
Remember if you need help to face those monsters, don't run away from the monster, don't stand it alone in fear, we're here. Your T is there for you, too. As much as I feel a hypocrite saying this- you don't have to do this alone.
More safe cyber hugs.
Poet
Posted by orchid on April 4, 2006, at 14:13:59
In reply to More explanation, posted by Daisym on April 4, 2006, at 11:41:53
Hi Daisy,
First of all, you are so wrong on this idea that you are not of help to anyone. And that you cannot ask for help if you don't offer. I personally, when I was hurting so immensely a while back, got so much of healing done just by reading what you wrote about your own struggles - by how your therapist responded to you, reading his extremely wise words, and found my own healing through his words to you, since we had a similar kind of struggle. You have been of immense help, without even knowing about it. So please don't hesitate to write and ask for help if you need. You are doing *us* a favor by writing here.And besides, even if someone is not emotionally capable of helping at some point, it is completely ok to just ask for help. You don't have to take turns. I am sure many of us here, just want to help whenever we can - because it helps us to help others. When I write something of help to someone, I feel good about myself too. And I heal through helping others as well. I got lot of my self esteem from the very fact that what I used to write helped other people. So even if you look at it from this perspective, you end up doing *me* a favor by asking for help.
So please don't hesitate to ask for help whenever you want.
And it really pains to see you suffering so much. I think I can understand the pain to some extent, but maybe not fully. Only you will be able to understand it to the full extent. And I think you are somewhat right in having to face the monster by yourself. All of us end up having to deal with our own innermost private monsters by ourself, even if there is plenty of help around us - the final pass, most likely we have to make it by our own - day after day, during nights mostly, when we lie awake and try to understand what the heck is going on with us. And sometimes we don't even understand if you really want to get better, or if we just want to keep hurting. I know when I was hurting, I didn't want to get better - because getting better meant, to me at that time, faking it. I didn't really believe, there would ever come a day when I would be genuinely happy. I used to think whatever happiness I can feel, I can feel only by faking it - smiling artificially and superficially, and perhaps doing things from my logical mind when my emotional side continues to suffer horribly. But I have to say, that it does pass. And eventually when you get through the series of dark tunnels, you start to appreciate things in life for real. You start to enjoy comedies, jokes, pleasant things in life, and you no longer fake it. The laughther and smile becomes real and it feels ok to be able to *feel ok*. That day will come. It definitely will. All you need to do is keep going through these dark tunnels, one by one, and slowly and carefully, taking whatever support and help you can find, and carrying the words with you as your arms.
And I think perhaps the part you meant about the most basic reflexes being painful, maybe you feel the parts of you that want your therapist sexually, triggers a lot of deep down pains and fears of your abuse. Maybe you feel very uncomfortable feeling sexual about someone and it triggers so much of pain and uncomfort that it feels almost impossible to deal with it. But I think as you keep working out on the issue, then one day, you will be able to accept your feelings too.
Hang in there, and do ask for help.
Posted by LadyBug on April 4, 2006, at 14:21:40
In reply to More explanation, posted by Daisym on April 4, 2006, at 11:41:53
Posted by TherapyGirl on April 4, 2006, at 14:34:21
In reply to More explanation, posted by Daisym on April 4, 2006, at 11:41:53
Daisy, I wish there was some way I could help you carry the pain until you get through it.
I did have this thought when I was reading your imagery about the single-file path. If it helps, hang on to it. If not, just move on by it.
I've been doing some PTSD guided imagery. In one of the exercises, you and a special guide (for me, it's my T) are walking down through your broken heart to the place that isn't damaged by the trauma. Once you get there, a long line of supporters (angels, friends, family, ancestors, whatever) walk towards you bringing pieces of your heart back to you. I couldn't help recalling that image, which is very powerful for me, when I read your post. So if it would help, feel free to picture us Babblers as a large group -- half behind you and half walking towards you.
Posted by Daisym on April 4, 2006, at 15:18:01
In reply to Re: More explanation » Daisym, posted by annierose on April 4, 2006, at 12:05:02
Annie,
*** Just let your T help you. He went to monster school. He knows how to destroy those pesky devils. It isn't fun, it's hard, but working together, I just know you can do it!!***
This post was orginally a letter to my therapist, with lots of other stuff in it. I took him that letter this morning. After we read it together, I said that I heard little daisy whispering that she sure hoped he had done to monster school. He reassured her (me) that indeed he had, although the monsters keep changing so we might have to use some trial and error.
It was a painful session. I think he thinks I'm mad at him. Am I?
Posted by Daisym on April 4, 2006, at 15:19:58
In reply to Re: More explanation, posted by fallsfall on April 4, 2006, at 12:15:06
I have a huge need to protect you. HUGE. So yes, you can stay close but I have to peek first and make sure it is safe enough for both of us. Perhaps little daisy can stay back with you?
And wouldn't it be great if you could, indeed see S's office. That would mean a lot to me.
Nothing helps as much as being loved. Thank you for that.
Daisy
Posted by Daisym on April 4, 2006, at 15:30:04
In reply to Re: More explanation » Daisym, posted by All Done on April 4, 2006, at 12:21:02
Laurie,
You sound exactly like my therapist this morning. Except, he agreed that there are parts of this I have to face "alone." Although his definition and ine of "alone" are different. He thinks only I can bring out all these feelings and memories so that I can be supported and heard. But I have to face them first, in order to get them out.
He asked me if I was losing confidence that he could help me. He said in the softest voice, "I've helped you before." I almost missed it. I asked if he was reminding me, or himself. He said "both." Becaus the journey is hard and he feels sad for me. He asked if it was OK that he felt sad for me. "no" --- and yes. I told him I'd be OK and I will. He said, "I know sometimes you really aren't OK." This made the tears well up and I told him "fine, so you be OK enough for both of us."
He asked me if this was all too much, how hard is hard? I said it brought me to my knees last night in a way I didn't know existed. He had some suggestions but mostly reminded me that technology exists for a reason -- use it!
He said my spot on the couch is safe and mine for as long as I needed it. But this is where I railed at him -- no it isn't mine. It will be locked away from me next week. So I have to do this on my own, don't I?"
He said in his perfect therapist's voice, "we have to talk about my vacation. You can't keep pretending it isn't going to happen. We have to attend to our connection and make it OK for you while I'm gone." I told him he really would have to be magic for it to be OK for him to be gone. And then I left.
Guess what we'll be talking about tomorrow?
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