Posted by Dr. Bob on December 17, 2013, at 3:06:34
In reply to Re: Getting along in a sh*t-slinging world, posted by alexandra_k on December 16, 2013, at 15:52:19
> I have a shield, mostly basic logic/critical thinking, reinforced by stuff I've learned since reading "Emotional Intelligence", which I highly recommend.
>
> I may be miffed about such-and-such post, but I really try to not run away with it. I try to recognize my visceral response as quickly as possible, remind myself that I don't have to run with it, and try to redirect my thoughts. ... Each time I succeed in not going where I don't want to go in the first place, I consider a victory. When I fail, I review it after calming down, remind myself that I can treat myself better next time.
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> Bob, is that one type of shield you're referring to?I think it might be. One example of where you don't want to go might be feeling put down and hurt?
> I think some folks prefer therapists who I would refer to as enablers. I'm familiar with that because I had one. While I was in her care, it felt marvelous, someone finally understood me and was on my side!!! Yep, it felt great, and I didn't learn a goddamn thing from it! And the same folks appear to want PB to be the same thing for them ... That is not a shield, that's a refuge.
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> If Bob turned PB into Sesame Street, it would be peaceful, banal, useless, perfect for children.
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> Moishe PipikI think people sometimes need a refuge. A shelter. For someone else to be their shield. People besides children sometimes go where they don't want to go.
--
> first year philosophy students often have trouble seeing that an argument is valid even though it has a false conclusion or seeing that an argument is invalid even though they believe the conclusion is true. they don't seem able to separate out the form of the reasoning from the content of the argument.
>
> i think that often people have similar things going on with respect to meaningful content and a bunch of other stuff that people do with language. For instance, a lot of people have trouble seeing that you can understand what someone is saying (listen to them, empathize with the fact that they believe what they believe or whatever) without necessarily agreeing with it or thinking it oneself.
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> I think the later sometimes results in 'oh yeah, she is such a bitch' sorts of affiliative gestures. The person saying it doesn't believe it - but it seems to be the sort of thing to say to placate the person who is upset.
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> How do you help people tease these things apart?
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> alexandra_kYes, a common way of supporting someone is to attack whoever they feel attacked by. To defend them with a six-shooter.
Whereas one way of shielding them might be to help them see that the other person's argument is invalid, or that more than one argument is valid.
Bob
a brilliant and reticent Web mastermind -- The New York Times
backpedals well -- PartlyCloudy
poster:Dr. Bob
thread:1055625
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/psycho/20131211/msgs/1056398.html