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Re: just one more... » Dinah

Posted by alexandra_k on November 27, 2005, at 18:38:05

In reply to Re: just one more..., posted by Dinah on November 27, 2005, at 1:27:38

> A 401K is a retirement plan where you can put pretax income aside for your retirement...

Okay, thanks for that.

> > > The retirement of just about everyone who has a retirement plan rests on hte health of "big business".

Okay. In the above link he said...

>a lot of these new stock owners have had relatively small holdings of stock. There hasn’t been much dilution in the share of stock owned by the richest 1 or 10 percent. Stock ownership is still heavily concentrated among rich families. The richest 10 percent own 85 percent of all stock.

>the stock market boom of the 1990s disproportionately benefited rich families. There were some gains by middle class families, but their average stock holdings were too small to make much difference in their overall wealth.

(In case you are worried about the source he is an economist at NYU. He has written a book on what should be done about the situation - I should check it out sometime)

The rich get richer...
And the middle class benefit just enough for them to think that THEIR welfare is dependent on the economy. I bet... That the economy could afford to suffer somewhat and the majority of Americans could still be better off if the wealth within the country was distributed a little more fairly...

I mean... In NZ our economy isn't doing nearly so well as the US economy. But I would say... That in terms of quality of life (basic needs being met from within the law)... More people in New Zealand have that than US citizens...

> I don't really consider it all that funny.

I don't consider it funny either. Really, I wasn't attempting to make a joke. I think that sometimes... That is the harsh reality. Some people simply cannot make ends meet from within the law and thus they are forced to revert to unlawful activities. Other people weigh things up a little: minimum wage vs. crime. Thats not at all a laughing matter...

> I'm not blaming the *people* around here for the lack of an education. The system could use a lot of improvement. I'm just saying that's the long term key to this problem.

Yes. And if the government... Took some of that money from the wealthy... They could use that money to spend on healthcare, education, and housing for people who cannot afford to get a reasonable quality / amount of these things if *left* to their own devices. In doing that... Well... It would be an investment for future generations. It would go some way towards remidying the inequalities that people are born into through no fault of their own.

> You make it sound as if we throw the poor to the wolves in our country, and that's just not true.

I don't think they are thrown to the wolves...
I think they are fairly much *left* to fend for themselves as best they can.
They are left to rely on the charity of individuals.
They are left to beg for money and food...
Yeah, I guess that is the way it seems to me...

> Kids get free lunches, and for the most part free breakfasts as well, if they need it, during the school year at least.

:-)
Thats good.
How about their parents?
How come they don't have enough money / food to feed their kids?
How do their parents eat?

> The big problem was scheduling time off to take their kids to the doctors.

Yeah. I think there is a lot society could / should do about caring for kids (paid maternity leave, paid post-natal leave, paid time off to care for sick kids etc)

> Isn't it kind of hard to do politics without a good grasp of economics?

I imagine you learn a bit about economics in virtue of studying politics. Everything... Inter-relates ultimately...

>Even if you aren't actually running for an office yourself

Oh, hell no!!! LOL!!! No what I'm thinking... Is something along the lines of a policy analyst. Maybe for some organisation like the one I've been giving you links to all the time. Some conscience group. I'd do it volountarily... But I guess I'd have to stay in New Zealand to qualify for welfare while I'm doing the volountary work. When you really think about it, what is volountary work but work that society doesn't value enough to pay people for???

> in order to evaluate the effectiveness of politicians, isn't a good grasp of the facts and a knowledge of economics vital?

I suppose it would be if one thought that the measure of 'effectiveness' had to do with economic growth or something like that. IMO... One hungry kid is one too many hungry kid. One sick kid is one too many sick kid. There are hungy and sick kids in the US and you can go on about 'economic growth' as much as you like, IMO something should be done about that. And the fact that that is not on the agenda... Killing civilians in Iraq and building nukes and exploiting the worlds oil resources is prioritised... Well... That tells me something is wrong. I don't need to know the figures on economic growth to figure that the economic growth hasn't benefited the majority of the citizens in the US; rather... the rich get richer and the poor fairly much are left to fend for themselves on a minimum wage that I couldn't meet my basic needs on.

> You know, Alexandra, most people endorse the same vision of the future.

I really don't think... That they do. I used to think that, but I have changed my mind fairly recently.

Some people... Look out for them and their own. They want MORE than other people. They want to assert their DOMINANCE their SUPERIORITY. They don't care who they trample on to get there. They think like is about survival of the fittest. A horribly distorted version of Darwinism called SOCIAL DARWINISM.

That is very different from looking out for other people and having a sense of social responsibility. Thinking that one has an obligation to help people / societies that are worse off than oneself. Thinking... That it is worth doing that even when it means that one has a little less money / wealth in ones own life and in the life of ones friends and family.

Instead of thinking 'if we make them self-sufficient then we will only have another arms race with a new set of people sometime in the future' thinking 'if we help them be self-sufficient then maybe they will help us one day if we need it and maybe the world will be a better place'.

>It's the how to get there that has the politicians at odds.

Yeah. Like world peace.
Some people think the only way to achieve world peace is for everybody to have the same weapon technology. The same nukes. Then the threat of global destruction will ensure that nobody nukes anybody else.

Other people think the only way to achieve world peace is for everybody to disarm. For nobody to have weapons. Then nobody will set off a nuke in a moment of irrational paranoia or whatever. Then nobody will die if an *accident* happens.

And I appreciate the issue about nuclear power now...
The nuclear power stations...
Produce a by-product that can be used to make nuclear weapons.
Where you have nuclear power then you have the componants to make yourself a nuclear weapon.

And that is why...

No nukes on NZ waters...
And it is in virtue of that...
That New Zealand lost its free trade agreement with the United States.
Because we wouldn't let nuclear powered ships in our waters. Because we wouldn't let nuclear weapons onto our land

(Though apparantly US flights aren't required to declare what is on board when they land in our airports so we are kidding ourselves if we think our country is totally nuclear free).

We are currently persuing...
A free trade agreement with china...
(rumoured to be the worlds next super-power)
Politics.
Sigh.

Why can't people just be nice to one another?

I think it is about...
Clamping down on the small stuff.

Hitler should have been prosecuted well before he got into power...
And other people in Germany well before that...
It would have prevented the situation getting to that level.

Current US administration...
Will they be prosecuted now???
Or later???

Hmm.

Hmm.

 

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poster:alexandra_k thread:578654
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/poli/20051121/msgs/582799.html