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Re: just one more... » Dinah

Posted by alexandra_k on November 26, 2005, at 20:11:54

In reply to Re: just one more... » alexandra_k, posted by Dinah on November 26, 2005, at 12:56:27

> Sorry. Don't agree.

:-)

> Not sure where the figures about the stocks and bonds came from.

> The richest 10 percent of families own about 85 percent of all outstanding stocks. They own about 85 percent of all financial securities, 90 percent of all business assets. These financial assets and business equity are even more concentrated than total wealth.

http://multinationalmonitor.org/mm2003/03may/may03interviewswolff.html

What is 401K?

> The retirement of just about everyone who has a retirement plan rests on hte health of "big business".

How many people in the US have a retirement plan?

> By a controlled economy I mean a controlled economy. Not an economy influenced by incentives, or with compliance laws.

I don't really know anything about that...

> Economic well-being has traditionally been judged by percentage gross profit, percentage net profit, or return on investment (having to do with the profit returned per dollar of stock value, or something like that). Clearly a company that makes $100,000 a year on $5,000,000 of sales is healthier than a company that makes $100,000 a year on $500,000,000 of sales, so it makes sense.

Right. I think there should be laws on how much you have to pay employees, though. I mean... There is a minimum wage at present. But that minimum wage isn't enough. Could you live on minimum wage? I don't believe I could.

> Exactly how much a government does for people in low income brackets or who earn no income is up for debate.

Yeah.

> The underground economy is booming, thank you very much.

Yeah. I wonder why.
Hmm.
Minimum wage vs crime...
I wonder what I would choose ;-)

> I see two keys in making this situation better. One is education.

Yeah. Education is important. Really very. But in order to get yourself an education... It helps things along rather if you are in a good state of health and are getting enough food etc.

>I come from an area with such poor education, that many of our residents make minimum wage, unless they manage to get into a profession with tips.

Hmm.
So... They work hard and still struggle...

> And we can't attract better jobs because our education system is so bad.

Hmm.

> Being able to keep your health insurance at a reasonable rate is vital.

It is when health insurance is a requisite for treatment, yup.

> I'd rather see the poor have access to the same insurance plans as the middle class, with the premiums subsidized.

That sounds good. But once again... Could you afford to live someplace and have enough to eat on minimum wage? How about health insurance - even if that insurance was 'subsidised'?

> You'd still probably have a small segment of the market, nursing homes, group homes, etc. that would have to be directly funded by the government.

Yeah.

> How familiar are you with the tax laws, welfare laws, disability laws, earned income credit, etc. that exist in the United States?

Hardly at all. I don't know very much about the situation in NZ either.

> It certainly is not a perfect system, but I don't get the sense that it is exactly as you are portraying it. And I say that as someone who knows a fair number of people in my area who are part of the system.

Right.
Well...
I guess I'm thinking of minimum wage...
That there are people who attempt to live on that.
I'm thinking you qualify for 6 months unemployment benefit, then thats all folks.
I'm thinking that without health insurance you really struggle to get medical care / afford prescriptions.
I'm thinking that the division in wealth is one of the worst in the world.
Its that latter point that really gets to me.

> I rail at the injustices as much as anyone (on both sides, I might add - since I do know people who abuse the system).

People who 'abuse the system'...
If they didn't 'abuse' the system would they have enough to meet their basic needs?

>But if I had the energy and the will to really want to make a difference, I'd learn all I could about how things really work now,

Yeah. To know the facts.

> and study psychology and economics to gain the perspective needed to gain a reasonable understanding of the likely effects of proposed changes.

I was starting to think politics. I don't really want to do economics. There is math in economics :-(

>I would be a voracious consumer of all sorts of information from all sorts of sources. I'd probably be especially careful to read sources that came from a different perspective than the ones I would normally choose, to make sure that I cleansed myself of any biases that might cloud my judgement or influence my decision processes.

Yeah. I guess I'd stick to the facts. And people who offer well reasoned interpretations of the facts. There is a lot of mis-information out there... It would be interesting to study from the perspective of clearing those mis-understandings up and hearing some of the arguments from both sides.

> But I really don't have the energy to do any of that. :(

Yeah. I don't imagine I'll bother either ;-)

> I heard a story that NASA hired a whole bunch of scientists who said it was impossible to get to the moon, and made sure they had solutions to all of the problems these scientists brought up.
> I'm afraid my best role is that of those scientists.

:-)
Thats okay. Somebody has to do it.
:-)

I guess I think...
That the inbalance in the distribution of wealth is unfair.
It is that that I'm looking at fixing...

 

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URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/poli/20051121/msgs/582508.html