Posted by Jlx on October 8, 2006, at 10:53:48
In reply to How to substitute TMG for SAM-e?, posted by mila s on October 7, 2006, at 21:12:57
> I took 800mg of SAM-e twice a day along with B vitamins and 1000mg TMG for several months, and it really helped. Since SAM-e is so expensive (especially at my high dose of 1600mg/day), I would like to try taking TMG instead to increase my SAM-e levels as has been often suggested on this site.
> However, I have no idea how much to take for this purpose and whether I should be taking anything else. If anyone has advice or can direct me to information about this I would be much obliged. Thanks.
There was a previous long thread on this you may find interesting, particularly because Larry Hoover participated (and provided multiple chemistry links). http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/alter/20031104/msgs/278142.html
This was from Dr. Walsh from the Pfeiffer Clinic as posted on Alternative Mental Health:
"A quick way to test for need for methylation therapy is to carry out a cautious trial of SAMe. Within a week or two you should have your answer. If she clearly is improving on the SAMs (which is frightfully expensive)..... you can get usually the same benefits (albeit more slowly) using methionine plus calcium, magnesium, and B-6..."
I'd forgotten taht methionine was part of Dr. Walsh's "poor man's SAMe" formula. But is it really necessary to take in supplemental form? Perhaps food is enough.
Larry's response to my "poor man's SAMe" post was interesting. One comment:
"Note that cyanocobalamin *consumes* SAMe. That's why methylcobalamin is the preferred form of B-12."
Another poster said that magnesium "switched on" TMG for him. The last time I took TMG I got extremely irritable until I took extra magnesium. (Magnesium has helped me more with depression than anything so I always take it.)
I was concerned that Dr. Walsh seemed to be warning against folic acid, which didn't make sense to me based on other things I've read and Larry agreed.
Another of Larry's interesting comments:
"SAMe turns into homocysteine when its used up. Deal with the homocysteine, by turning it back into methionine, and maybe you don't need SAMe supps at all."
Another poster's comment:
"SAMe is bad if you have high homocysteine levels because the supplemental SAMe, once it donates its methyl-group, becomes more homocysteine in your system. You need to address the homocysteine first (via TMG or methylcobalamin), only adding on SAMe if the problem lies in converting methionine to SAMe. Magnesium and things to boost the body's production of ATP (NADH?) would be worth considering first as these are what are needed to convert methionine to SAMe."
Later, I asked,
"Ok, I know I have to experiment with how it feels but wrt homocysteine, what if there is an imbalance between the homocysteine-increasing effect of methionine and the homocysteine-lowering effect of TMG? Iow, do I have to make sure to take "x" amount of TMG if I take "xx" amount of methionine?"
"If you're otherwise "normal", you will not develop hyperhomocysteinemia (high blood homocysteine) because the B12-dependent pathway back to methionine dominates. I would just monitor the psych effect of TMG, and not worry about homocysteine."
There was more info in those posts, but that was some of the highlights. I tend to slack off on my vitamins occasionally but now I am inspired to be more diligent about that B12, B6 and folate.