Posted by Elroy on May 14, 2005, at 22:14:51
In reply to Re: Arghhh » Elroy, posted by Larry Hoover on April 28, 2005, at 8:31:38
Lar,
Thanks for info. That's strange as my psych doc wanted me to start out with just the Selegiline - and then only at like 1/2 tablet a day and work up from there as "selegiline also enhances production of NE and - due to past bad experiences with increasing NE too quickly - we want to approach this very slowly"..... That's paraphrasing her somewhat but basically the gist of it. The approach was (is) to start out working very slowly up to 5mg of selegiline twice a day and then start adding in the DLPA.
BTW, when efforts at trying Effexor and Cymbalta were tried, extreme "burning urethra" type pains (similiar to, but not quite like, prostatitis). I understand that this is not an extremely rare side effect with many men who take these SSNRIs. Do you know what is gonig on that causes this side effect?
Thanks.
Elroy
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> > Thanks for info. That would make sense. Right now primary objective with selegiline is to get norepinehprine levels back up into mid normal ranges, so tyrosine should be just as effective for those purposes, eh?
>
> No, not on a gram for gram basis. Think of the path to NE being like a limited access highway.
>
> You're starting right at the origin of that highway, and there's a lot of traffic. The very first exit goes to PEA, and all of the D-phenylalanine and a small chunk of the L-phenylalanine gets off at that exit, but none of the tyrosine does.
>
> Then there's a toll booth. The tyrosine gets to bypass the booth, but the L-PA has to pay, by getting turned into tyrosine. So, past this booth, the whole highway is filled with tyrosine.
>
> Up ahead, there's a sign "Through traffic to dopamine, left two lanes. All other traffic, right lane." Some tyrosine gets off the highway, to become thyroid hormone and other stuff.
>
> The through traffic faces another toll booth, but all of the tyrosine has to stop. It comes out of the booth as L-DOPA, direct precursor to dopamine (and NE thereafter).
>
> If you started that highway with one gram each of d-,l-phenylalanine (DLPA), l-phenylalanine (L-PA), or tyrosine, the yield in L-DOPA (traffic still on the through highway at the last toll booth) would be about: 30%, 65%, and 85%, respectively (and with huge assumptions about muscles not building any protein during this trip, etc.).
>
> Of that same one gram dose, yield of PEA would be about 60%, 15%, and < 1%, respectively. Tyrosine can back-convert to phenylalanine, so I'm not setting the latter yield to zero.
>
> If NE is your target, tyrosine is your best bullet.
>
> > Also, I know that selegiline converts to dopamine and that it's the dopamine that actually makes the conversion into NE.
>
> I don't see that selegiline converts to dopamine.
>
> http://www.selegiline.com/refs/index.html
>
> Select the one that says "dopamine"
>
> Lots of other great references in that list, and in ones that come up below individual references themselves.
>
> There's another problem with your assumption. Providing a ready supply of NE is one thing. Enhancing its effect is quite another. NE isn't just floating around the brain. It is stored in special little containers called synaptosomes. If you want the effect of NE, you've got to enhance its release somehow, which means causing those synaptosomes to release their contents.
>
> All told, indirect effects of selegiline might well do that, but I'm not even going to try to figure out a mechanism for it.
>
> You're always back to the final test.....doing the experiment. Try the drug, and see how you feel, with and without DLPA and/or tyrosine.
>
> > Question: Does anyone know if there's any particular supplement needed to enhance that conversion (B6, Vitamin C, etc., etc.)???
> >
> > Thanks for any info.
>
> General core supps, in any case. B-complex, C, zinc, selenium, etc. should be part of the routine intake. You *already* need them, not just for this specific purpose.
>
> Lar
poster:Elroy
thread:452259
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/alter/20050510/msgs/497889.html