Posted by Larry Hoover on September 21, 2003, at 6:48:23
In reply to Magnesium ascorbate query, posted by tealady on September 20, 2003, at 18:16:22
> Lar,
>
> > I've been backing down on the large doses of vits/minerals. Last Sunday ( a week ago) I knew I had too much zinc(probably) or selenium from the metallic taste in my mouth. (gone now)
> This was the time I had the filling the previous Friday .If you had a filling, how do you know it wasn't the filling responsible for the taste?
>
> I was mixing magnesium carbonate(light) with ascorbic acid..both in powder formI'm not sure what you mean by light and heavy, in this message.....but, powders can be very dense or not, and that has no bearing on the molecular structure. It just has to do with whether or not the molecules pack tightly together (i.e. they nest together well, like spoons in a stack), or if they don't (like your kitchen gadget drawer).
> the adding some water, stirring until clear and fizzing mostly stopped to remove the Co2, and drinking....to get larger doses of magnesium.
You won't have increased the magnesium in any way, but you will have decreased the tendency to burp after taking mag carbonate.
The acid in the stomach shifts the equilibrium from carbonate (H+ + CO3--) --> bicarbonate (H+ + HCO3-) --> carbon dioxide and water (CO2 + H2O). When you add ascorbic acid to water containing magnesium carbonate, you do it in the glass instead. In any case, you do ensure that the magnesium is fully dissolved, but you will always have the same amount of magnesium, and the same amount of ascorbic acid/ascorbate, after the fact.
> Couple of questions
> - I used about a teaspoon of each usually, mixed together. (tapering off over the days)
>
> With equal amounts of each, any idea of what I was swallowing..I know magnesium ascorbate..but some extra ascorbic acid or extra magnesium carbonate..I suspect extra ascrbic acidI'd have to know exact weights to determine that, but you're getting magnesium and vitamin C. Nothing added. Nothing lost.
> -one of the multis I took had magnesium oxide (heavy) in it...besides weight, like the light is a real light fluffy powder..what , if any is the difference between light and heavy. I can't find this out anywhere. Just curious, no real need to know
Magnesium oxide is a poor source of magnesium. MgO is not a salt. It's a covalent compound. You might get as little as a few percent of the magnesium from it. The rest passes in the stool, unreacted.
> Also I was taking this form of VitC around the time of the injection..from a few hours before the dental visit to a few days after in large doses.Vitamin C is good for the gums.
> I was thinking if when they say VitC is a treatment..do they mean pure ascorbic acid or would magnesium ascorbate achieve the same effectAbsolutely the same effect, so long as you take into account the idea that a fraction of the weight of magnesium ascorbate is magnesium, and the remainder is ascorbate. But, in absolute terms, they're the same. When an ascorbate salt enters the stomach, the strong acid HCl that's present will "overpower" the weak acidity of ascorbic acid. All of the ascorbic acid or ascorbate entering the stomach will be in the form of ascorbic acid after mere seconds. The HCL puts the proton back onto ascorbate.
> ..I'm still confused over acidity stuff..
I hope this isn't more than you wanted to know....
In the most common definition, an acid is any molecule that has a tendency to donate or lose a hydrogen ion (H+). Hydrogen is the simplest atom there is. It is no more than a proton with one electron. So, if hydrogen loses it's electron (to become an ion), it is really nothing more than a naked proton. You may come across the concept that a molecule has been protonated. That's the same thing as saying it picked up a hydrogen ion, or that it reacted with an acid.
In order to differentiate between the acid before and after it has lost a proton, chemists use slightly different forms of the name. Ascorbic acid has all its protons. Ascorbate is the same molecule minus a proton. Because it has lost a proton, ascorbate now has a minus charge.
The minerals that your body needs are all ions. An example would be sodium. In its uncharged state, sodium is a metal that is extraordinarily reactive. Drop a piece of sodium metal into water, and there will be an explosion. What remain in the water after the explosion are sodium ions (Na+). If there happened to be ascorbate ions in the water as well, and you dried the solution, you'd be left with the salt, sodium ascorbate (Na+ and ascorbate-).
There are lots of common acids that are found in our food as their -ates. Glutamic acid, an amino acid, may be supplied as the sodium salt, i.e. monosodium glutamate.
You may also come across the -ate concept in an altogether different context. Organic acids can react with alcohols to form esters. One example that you probably have heard about is the fish oil derivative ethyl eicosapentaenoate (E-EPA), used to treat depression. In this example, ethanol (drinking alcohol) has been reacted with the omega-3 fatty acid EPA (eicosapentaenoic acid) to form an ester. The name follows a particular pattern. The alcohol takes on the -yl ending, and the acid takes on the -ate ending. Thus, ethyl eicosapentaenoate. The acid in your stomach breaks the ester apart, giving free ethanol and eicosapentaenoic acid.
Another example of an ester is a triglyceride. Glycerin is an alcohol with three alcohol groups. It can form three ester bonds with individual fatty acids.
> As always I value your help,
> Hugs, JanLet me know if I can expand on any of these ideas for you.
Hugs,
Lar
poster:Larry Hoover
thread:259730
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/alter/20030903/msgs/262132.html