Posted by alexandra_k on January 19, 2006, at 3:32:17
In reply to It Has Never Been About Civility, posted by verne on January 19, 2006, at 0:07:29
Hey Verne.
I think I get what you mean. I have a problem with rules that I perceive as arbitrary. I got into a lot of trouble at high school for infractions such as refusing to pull up my socks and tuck in my shirt and smoking (discretely) behind the shops when teachers would purposely hide behind rubbish skips etc to jump out and snap me. I didn't see what pulled up socked and tucked in shirts had to do with education. And I didn't see how it was their f*cking business if I was smoking, especially since I was 16 (legal age for that when I was a kid) and when I purposely went out of my way to be discrete so the other students didn't see me.
I got suspended from school a fair few times. For those kinds of infractions. So... The 'punishment' delivered for breaking their arbitrary f*cking rules was that I was excluded from being able to attend which DID interfere with my education. I organised a number of student protests :-) We weren't allowed to wear yellow doc martin laces in our shoes - but we got that rule changed. We weren't allowed to wear brown shoes (they were cooler than black at the time) - and we got that rule changed too.
I think...
There are times when civil disobedience is justified. By 'civil disobedience' I'm talking breaking the laws / rules in order to bring about a change in the rules. I think a lot of protest activities fit into this (tying yourself to a tree to prevent logging; hampering boat movements to prevent whaling; saying 'i won't stand up' in protest of race laws etc.
One of my office mates wrote a paper on civil disobedience (in the above mentioned sense) and he considered WHEN civil disobedience is justified and WHAT civil disobedience activities may be justified in what circumstances. One of the requirements... Was that more peaceful / lawful options are unavailable.
Here... We can talk about the rules and the consequences (or punishers if you like) for breaking the rules. We are able to discuss that.
At some other sites... Not so. If you question the rules; suggest alternatives; if you inquire about the rules and the rationalisations for them then your posts will be deleted from the forums and you can be blocked. I was blocked off another forum for posting about the rules after being requested not to. I considered that I was justified as it was a case of legitimate civil disobedience. I was blocked for 4 weeks as a consequence or punisher. I've had a while to reflect on my actions. I knew I would probably be blocked. My office mate thought that if you broke a law in protest then you had to accept the consequence (punishment) for doing so. If you trespass to protest then protest might be a case of justified civil disobedience but your country is also justified in prosecuting you for your civil disobedience. Because the laws of the country protect you (there are laws against other people stealing your property and killing you and your family members etc) and thus you have an obligation to your country to obey its laws. Sometimes there is conflict (and you are also justified in breaking the laws) - but one must also accept the consequences for doing so.That is not to say that one can't campaign and / or speak out against the laws. But it is to say that until they are changed... One is bound by them. We can speak out here. It might feel like bashing our heads against a brick wall sometimes. But I think... If people can suggest an alternative system... And can provide reasons for why the alternative system would be better / fairer etc then that does have some impact. When people just rail against perceived unfairness then it is hard to know precisely what people want regarding the precise changes that people are advocating for.
Blockings aren't forever. They max out at one year. Nobody is excluded forever (to the best of my knowledge). No matter what you have done you are welcomed back after one year. One year is a long time. But then some people do post some doozys... And some people don't seem to learn... Delivering a punisher leads to a decrease in problematic behaviours. From that individual and across the board. That has been shown empirically (though it is true by definition of 'punisher').
You are pretty good at figuring out the reasons for the PBC's / blockings at times. You helped me out a lot with my block over on politics a while back. I know blocks used to mortify me. I was really very upset. They took me back... Took me back to my childhood when my mother used to shut me in my room for days... Weeks... And I was only allowed out for school, bathroom, and dinner. Isolation. Especially on weekends and public / school holidays and the like. I really do have sympathy with how hard blocks can be.
But something is changing for me. I still take them seriously, don't get me wrong, but I'm not mortified by them anymore. I can still email people. I can still post at other message boards. I can still go outside and go for a walk and look at the sun :-) I can still read the posts on these boards :-)
I don't know.
I'm sorry to ramble...
poster:alexandra_k
thread:596210
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20060111/msgs/600628.html