Posted by tom2228 on December 19, 2014, at 1:21:17
In reply to Re: What to do!? » phidippus, posted by 90%there on December 10, 2014, at 14:50:32
> > Can you take a stimulant with the MAOI?
> >
> > Eric
>
> yes, but I build tolerance too fast. I've used D/L-amphetamine, methylphenidate, MDMA and Mcat on isocarboxazid without any problems. But please don't try this! I have drug abuse issues, more past than present. And BECAUSE OF previous mind bending drug abuse it might be why build tolerance or poop out quickly.
> You asked, I answered and I 100% DO NOT recommend it. Not without professional clinical guidance.
>
> 90%I am also on Marplan and have used extensive amount of street crystal meth (up to 2g) but MDMA no man no man no. Not that what I've done is okay but you've isn't, but MDMA + MAOI is purely asking for a death sentence, no more no less. And that I understand too. Many of us using MAOIs, and also many of us drug users have gotten to that point where we live, OK, and we die, well, OK too..
I am scared what would happen on 50mg Marplan with meth and have only gone there with a Desoxyn Rx of I think 20mg at the time. But 90mg + those drugs sheesh.. yes I am passing judgement. I do not pass judgment upon myself but in order to care about you I must pass some unto you in this situation. I hope you understand this.
I believe you (or whoever above said this) are right about the specificity of the MAOI dose and finding that before you go on. I was on 50mg before but feels weird, <40 not enough, 40 just right. It's my "goldilocks" dose although I haven't tried 45, f*ck that. Who knocks though, maybe if I went up higher -- high enough -- I could get more adequate relief. There's a forum on dr bob by physicians 1 of whom writing about using up to I think ~170mg isocarboxazid + dextromamphetamine. This implies there are secondary properties to Marplan's MAOI mode of action, which logically caps off at 100% inhibition after a certain dose -- or not?
My solution:
1) Add desipramine. Read here http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20141120/msgs/1074361.html where I say I am taking 125mg along with my 40mg Marplan (with a stimulant and others)... it is really helping me right now be off of meth and my depression and anxiety. It feels strong and helps my energy -- nortriptyline is another great option to add and will help energy but has the side effect of being an antihistamine which is sedating -- desipramine lacks this and is 1 reason why I switched. This means it also lacks some of the weight gain of nortriptyline2) Add stimulant slowly.. tolerance you shouldn't have to worry about if you stop f*ck*ng with the recreationals! Develop a mindset that these oral pills are for MEDICATION and not recreation and this should help orient your mind in a placebo-response fashion to use the small amount appropriately. At least that is how it works for me -- I could be on hundreds of mgs of meth but notice a substantial difference whether I have taken my 10mg dose of Desoxyn which is technically the same chemical. I agree but argue it is NOT the same due to the route of admin and the pathways my mind has built over the years understanding that Desoxyn low dose is for ADHD and is not abuse. That's just me though. And yes, the Desoxyn does not work *as well* with the crystal but it still does for me. Lastly, I've been off meth for a week.
OH and 2A) Add Deplin to the combo either alone or with the stimulant; I believe it can help with stimulant tolerance by replenishing the neurotransmitter stores, which are quickly depleted by the stims especially amphetamine acutely and over time by the reuptake inhbitor stims like methylphenidate.
Alone, Deplin can prolong AD response, prevent poop-out, potentiate antidepressants (increase NT stores, promote release), and has a noticeable effect on energy. It affects dopamine3) Desoxyn -- as a meth addict hard to recommend to someone who has drug issues but I don't know your story. Pharmaceutical methamphetamine is different from crystal meth and is uniquely different from other oral stimulant medications. It just is, and has nice therapeutic synergy with Marplan.
Granted it is only given in the US and Chile. Sorry I just saw you were in the UK if I remember right.4) This is going out on a limb but Marplan + a little Parnate? Unstable and difficult to do and probably should not be done at all but I did 4 years ago because I found that a touch of Parnate was enough to get the effect but too much Parnate was overkill and has side-effects unlike Marplan. So I used enough Marplan to get proper % MAO inhibition and Parnate to top it off. I don't recommend it's too finnicky and probably too dangerous.
5) Marplan + stimulant PLUS TCA.
Marplan + stimulant was at a time enough for me. I now seem to need a tricyclic with the bunch and it could very well do what Marplan + stim and Marplan + TCA cannot do alone for you.6) Adding an atypical antipsyhotics / Abilify. It might sound like this would kill the DA boost of the MAOI but this is simply not true, especially with Abilify and especially with a stimulant on board -- I have both. Many AAPs are effective antidepressants on their own right -- and can really hit hard when combined with other antidpressants by antagnonizing serotonin receptors -- like that Effexor + Rememron strategy. Saphris felt strong on the AD properties.. supposedly Seroquel too which I see you have on board low dose. There are others that are less sedating that can help like Abilify., AVOID Geodon with MAOIs, that can produce serotonin syndrome (like the kind that you actually have to worry about :P).
7) Add Mirapex .. tired of writing.. sorry -- good night.
You are so lucky you have a doc who can explore these options with you. It has been *excruciating* to find one who can handle the MAOI + TCA + stimulant combo.
poster:tom2228
thread:1074042
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20141120/msgs/1074362.html