Posted by Meatwood_Flack on May 1, 2013, at 16:56:49
In reply to Re: Marijuana Not Medicine Addiction Docs Say » Meatwood_Flack, posted by SLS on May 1, 2013, at 7:57:41
> You are attempting to conjoin two separate issues. This not a real argument for either of them.
My attempt was to address the issue of safety.> 1. Marijuana lowers IQ and other measures of cognitive function, especially if used during adolescence.
IQ has been debunked as a reliable or valid measure of intelligence, as there are several, distinct forms of intelligence, ie. spatial, verbal, musical, numerical, even social. I have scored as high as 146 on IQ tests, but it was the verbal component that carrier the load because I'm terrible at math or tasks related to spatial reasoning (poor eyesight could be a factor.) So, which specific cognitive skills are degrading? Personally, I would voluntarily give up some IQ if it meant no more depression. I also understand not everyone would make that choice, or might not.
> > Should you or I be limited in our treatment options
>
> You never answered the following question:
>
> "Do you think that there is any place for government in the human experience?"Only for those who don't mind being controlled in exchange for certain protections from others, and even these protections are dubious. Laws don't prevent crime or corruption, otherwise we would have neither. Laws exist to punish. I'm probably somewhere between a Libertarian and an anarchist in that regard, but when you hear lie after lie after lie coming out of Washington D.C., our statehouse and even our local governing bodies, trust becomes an issue. Governments defer to the powerful and always have. The rest of us get the crumbs, for which we spend an average of five months' salary.
You never answered the following question: Should you or I be limited in our treatment options?
>
> because younger, less developed brains may be more vulnerable to negative effects
> If the risks outweigh the benefits, then this can be justified.I agree, but who gets to make that choice? Say you owned a company that produces widgets and you were required to file your annual budget with the government, who would look it over and decide whether or not it represented a healthy risk? "We're sorry, but given the present global economic climate, our calculations have determined that the sale of 20,000 widgets in fiscal year 2013 is unreasonably ambitious and would most likely result in bankruptcy. Please remit an amended budget more in line with current economic realities within 30 days to avoid seizure of assets." You and I can work out cost/benefit ratios on our own.
> 2. The rate of adolescent suicide has declined since the introduction of Prozac. What's more, the suicide rates in adolescence have begun to drift upwards again beginning in 2005. This coincides in time with the appearance of the black-box warning in 2004 suggesting that antidepressants might produce suicide in younger people.
Good info., Are there studies that exist which exhaust other possible factors for this increase. I'm assuming the black box warnings were instituted based on previous studies which found a correlation between teen antidepressants use and teen suicide. All I can definitively say is that, over 15 months, none of the pills have worked for me, while agreeing that mileage varies.
> Are you implying that the use of antidepressants is not tried-and-true treatment? Which treatments are statistically superior in adolescents?
Actually, despite my own lack of success with them, I was referring to antidepressants as tried and true. Maybe my lack of response is less a response to the drug and more of the lack of response to the placebo effect?
>
> I am NOT advocating that antidepressants should be a first-line treatment for depression in this population. Generally, I think psychotherapeutic milieus should be explored first. However, I think that there would be a subset of cases for which antidepressansts should be tried initially in combination with psychoterapeutics.I agree, wholeheartedly. I know you've battled with mental illness for a long time (I had to get slammed with a severe case before I realized just how long I had been dealing with it), I always read your posts with curiosity because it's obvious that you are very intelligent and have spent a lot of time in research.
So, here's a compromise: Legalize medical marihuana - while continuing to seek non-THC cannabinoids - for anyone of legal age to enlist in the military. Prescribing doctors must provide each patient a list of possible risks, which must be signed by the patient and retained in their medical records.
To me, the issue is choice.
poster:Meatwood_Flack
thread:1042969
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20130501/msgs/1043042.html