Posted by tea on January 2, 2010, at 22:26:15
In reply to Re: LDN Low Dose Naltrexone Questions, posted by Elroy on December 31, 2009, at 16:31:59
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> Tea...
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> You are taking doses WAY too wrong - WAT too imprecise.
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> If you take too little, LDN will NOT work...
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> If you take too much, you reverse the effects that you are seeking....
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> The way that you are taking it is way too much "rough guessing".
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> This IS the correct formula to follow EXACTLY) to make a 1 mg dose of LDN (so then you can try 2 mg or 3 mg or 4mg) - 1.5mg is the lowest that ANY of the expert doctors have found to work...
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> One precaution to the above. After initially dissolving the tablet in the specified amount of distilled water and shake it thoroughly to insure the Naltrexone is fully dissolved and disperesed in the solution, do NOT shake it anymore (as in prior to using it). The sediment - particles in the solution when you shake it - are binder substance compounds and several manufacturers use a dietary form of iron powder as one of their binding agent components and that can adversely affect Lupus patients and others with similarly related disorders.
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> From the Yahoo Group on LDN Therapy:
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> QUOTE:
> Subject: [lowdosenaltrexone] Naltrexone and solutions
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> For those of you that prepare naltrexone from 50 mg tablets dissolved in water- I have a strong recommendation for you: do not shake the solution before use. Shake when you prepare it, but once the tablet is dissolved, there is no need to suspend the insoluble portions of the tablet.
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> This is fairly important for those with Crohn's, but possibly other diseases as well. If the tablet contains iron oxide (the ones we buy do), the iron is very hard on the system. Naltrexone is very soluble; it will already be in the solution- it does NOT settle out. But removing the iron oxide may help those with Crohn's.
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> I am an analytical chemist, and have discovered this by trial-and-error. Iron supplementation is strongly discouraged for those on the SCD- and there is a very good reason for that. The reason the body is iron-deficient is because it believes it is combating an infection. If the iron as supplements is withheld, one can consume iron-rich foods like red meat, eggs, liver, etc. If the iron is added- particularly as the iron oxide in naltrexone tablets- the result is pain and bleeding, even in very small amounts.
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> Again- I'm a chemist by training. If you make your own solution, PLEASE do not consume the insoluble sediment. There is absolutely no need to shake the solution right before you consume it- only when you're preparing it for the first time- as the naltrexone is already dissolved.
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> I hope this helps someone somewhere. Good luck, and best wishes.
> END QUOTE
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> (*) The pills you are taking - even though manufactured in India, ALL of them are destined to also be sold under American brand names - and consist of pure Naltrexone Hcl USP, plus whatever used binders - it is the binders that do no dissolve fully in the distilled water, and it must be DISTILLED water... for the formula to work correctly (only as certain mineral content of some tap waters may have compounds which release cause the Naltrexone to dissolve too slowly... it should dump into your system in a rush ... and in that matter, the DIY formula is actually better than the pharmacy compounded tablets.
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>Thanks for that on the fillers in the ldn from India being insoluble.
very helpful andf supportive info!
I knew mine were not fully soluble, just as you say, but everywhere I was reading on the web I could find people were saying they were completely soluble and they got a clear solution. No matter what I tried I didn't (mentioned in previous post). I was considering switching the source. I tried dissolving in alcohol, water, vinegar (acid), warm to cold water(wasn't sure if too much heat would alter the naltrexone). Seemed to me from the chemical formula, as you say, naltrexone should be soluble.
I will try again and filter the solution.
Beats me jow one person stated they get their ldn from India and they make a clear solution with it though! That also makes all the rest of their testimony a bit suss unfortunately.Re the minimal effective dose, or if or if not there exists a threshold for ldn effectiveness.
I don't want to argue as we are all entitled as you say to our differing opinions, hopefully all, as yours and many others are based on relatively extensive reading and listening and following experts "opinions". That's all we can do.
Personaly mine also differs from yours but where and if there exists a threshold level I couldn't say with my limited experience.. even in myself!
I would just like you to consider perhaps ldn working like a "runner's high".. perhaps it does partly and perhaps not but it's only as a comparator. Most people and experts in training will say you need to run so far and so often for thsi "high" to kick in. Individual runners will have their own "levels" it kicks in. Some poeple just don't seem to experience it, or can't exercise enough to get a full blown one. But I belive that everyone does benefit from walking and running , even at less than the amounts that are stated to be required for this high or even to obtain fitness beneifts.
I think it has to do with the condition of the individual as well as many other factors. I myself feel better even if I walk a little than not at all. I think there is perhaps not a threshold black/white but a gradual grey beginning with just one step being better than nothing.. however to feel the full optimal benefits that requires more. I suspect ldn is similar, and some may just have to start out at a lower dose and work up to their optimal.. which, if in poor condition, may possibly be lower than 3mg. I think one factor would have to be the level of their receptors, which may be more than usually downregulated, in which case less would produce a an equivalent percentage blocked.
I don't understand how ldn works, and can't find it clearly written anywhere so far. I have studied the immune system at uni at a basic level though, and will continue to try and fathom out some acceptable "theory" at least for myself.
Although I couldn't say how ldn precisely works, I do think people can obtain some benefits at suboptimal(lower)doses though- as in running or any physical activity, and these benefits may make all the difference in allowing them to obtain more in other ways. Eg low dose ldn may allow them to exercise more without getting tired or in pain..allowing a build up from the exercise together wirth the ldn being additive, even synergistic. I think it's a mistake to just consider one thing alone.
Also I don't think you require (or even if) a total receptor blockout happens(it's more percentage blocked I would have thought)? I haven't come across any animal research where they have examined the receptors for that assumption to be made?
Hope we can agree to disagree:) and thanks for your help on the India ldn, much appreciated. Great for an expert on chemistry to help out.
Kind regards,
Jan
PS I know depression is not something ldn is designed to treat.. why I think it may help some on here who ALSO have other symptoms such as fatigue or pain and other symptoms , concomittent with their depression is a long story.. based on my own story as well as numerous others I have read :) If you have depression/anxiety and nothing else I too doubt ldn would help.
I know there is a belief in medicine that depresson/anxiety can cause these other symptoms like fatigue. This "belief" is aided by the treatment(like anti D's) also benefitting the other symptoms.
For me, this should not rule out the possibility of another common cause.. like an undiscovered low level immune problem or similar which may be the cause of the depression, as well as the other symptoms.
I believe I have in my lifetime experienced depression and anxiety which were not linked to anything else as well as having later in life at least an undiagnosed autoimmune thyroid problem which caused the fatigue etc and made me "depressed"..and also responded to an extent to antiD's, more so initially (first few years).
It seems to me that this later autoimmune problem may have been able to be resolved with ldn if caught early enough, if ldn works as the promise of it seem to imply. I therefore thought, for some, if they also have other problems (as many on here seem to), it may be worthwhile them considering looking at ldn. Hope this makes sense.
And thanks again for your help with the solubility.
poster:tea
thread:919880
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20091227/msgs/932230.html