Posted by bleauberry on November 4, 2009, at 17:48:16
In reply to Re: You Must Use Caution With St. Johns Wort, posted by willyeee on November 4, 2009, at 4:30:32
> Youre right,actualy any substance capable of passing the blood brain barrier can be dangerous.
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> On the flip side,i hear you keep mentioning that it was a prescription medication in germany,i dont believe that holds much value,lets look at what is or was also prescription,
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> MDMA,ecstasy
> L-dopa a mere amino acid
> samE now otc and avaiable to everyone
> kava kava as the trade name KAVAIN
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> Tryptohan
>They are prescription because they are studied, controlled, and each pill/batch is exactly the same as the next...unlike in USA where you never know what you are going to get from one brand to another, one bottle to another.
You mentioned "a mere amino acid". Even that is flawed. I can show you posts of people who tried ABC brand of tyrosine, DEF brand of tyrosine, both felt aweful, and then tried XYZ brand which felt great. On retrials of the original ones, just to test, they were indeed crap the second and third time around, and XYZ consistently was great each time. Even with mere amino acids, you don't know for sure what you are getting...kind of like a cousin situation to the brand vs generic thing. Not only are many generics found to have different feel and efficacy compared to brand, but the generics amongst themselves can be distinctly different. We see that here all the time. Same with OTC products.
Germany has more of an exact science in their plant pharmacology, with lots of research and study, which requires exact formulas, which requires prescription. My point however was that, given a choice between SJW or SSRI, they choose SJW 6 times more freqently. That would not be happening if it wasn't providing results.
> i can go on and on,im glad st johnns wort is helping u,but for the most part,using personal experiance,and tons and tons of readgings of message groups,st johns wort is not considered a very effective treatment for depression,in fact 5 htp is touted much more effective and im not saying that is highly mentioned either.
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> Im disappointed to see your recent strong view on what seems to be natural over medication,i did the natural route,learned every herb/nutrient/amino acid there is for depression,and all i got was a lot of money wasted.That just tells me your depression is not due to low serotonin, norepinephrine, or dopamine. Something else. I am very sorry your efforts were fruitless. I think that can happen because people are not well schooled on which agents to choose, why to choose them, how to combine them, why to combine them, and how critical the brand choices and dosing strategies are. It's not as simple as just popping a few supplement pills for a few days to see what happens and then move on to a different one.
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> When u take a natural supplement at mega doses it no longer is natural.That is true. The thing is, of the people I have talked to who experience remission on natural agents, none of them take anything close to mega doses. One guy for example...130mg tyrosine divided up into 5 little doses throughout the day. I do not believe in megadoses of anything.
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> When u mess with balance of amino acids,that is not a safe practice either.But messing with all the unknowns of powerful artificial chemicals is? You do realize, for every bit of information that we know about a drug, there is 10X that much we don't know. Back to your original statement however, messing with amino acids I believe carries a far lower risk than anything else. You can even do that with food choices...heavy protein vs heavy carbs, etc.
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> Herbs cross the blood brain barrier,making them no different the drugs,and that includes the risks also.True. I think I already said that. Anything that impacts the nervous system carries risk.
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> It saddens me cause i used to love and respect your views when reading ur posts.It saddens me you feel that way. What I see too often is what I also see in this post...someone who is struggling for an answer, a new avenue, an idea...and yet if it is anything outside of the psychiatric toolbox, forget it. Why someone would limit their potentials for life enhancement is beyond me. But that's ok, we all have our own lives to be responsible for. I personally prefer a large toolbox with lots of tricks in it, only some of which are from the psychiatric menu.
I have been 100% pro meds at times. That's when people at pbabble like my posts the most...because it fit the mindframe they were in...meds, meds, meds, and nothing but meds.
I have also been 100% natural at times. But over time I have concluded that neither approach is perfect, both have flaws, both are purely experimental, and the best results are witnessed by combining strategies of both med and natural. (the word natural includes herbs, supplements, tailored exercise, tailored food choices, anti-microbial strategies, and anti-toxin strategies). We're not simply talking tryptophan or SJW. A sick mind/sick body needs a whole lot more than any single pharm drug or herb is going to provide. They are sick for a reason, and it probably aint as simple as a chemical imbalance. Several bases need to be covered simultaneously in concert and compliment with each other.
For example, someone on a psych med with a specific diet and a specific exercise routine and a few specialty supplements and anti-microbial anti-toxin strategies is going to be in a whole lot better condition than someone on cocktail list of psych meds and nothing else.
So when you see me talking natural stuff or defending natural stuff, please don't misunderstand me. I am pro-med and pro-natural and pro-healthy, all at the same time. Neither one of those by themselves is going to get anyone very far for very long, except a very few who happen to hit a jackpot for whatever unknown reason. That does happen, but very infrequently, yet most of us think we are in line to hit the next lucky jackpot. We aren't. We keep trying one drug after another as if we are sure the next one is the jackpot. Ten years goes by. Twenty years.
It takes work to bring a sick mind/sick body back to health. I do not believe natural alone will do that. I do not believe pharm alone will do that.
But overall I did want to defend SJW, and reiterate I think the profound reaction to SJW highlighted a serious hidden problem that SJW did not cause, but rather uncovered and exposed.
That can be taken as a powerful glaring hint, or it can be outright ignored. We all have our own choices and prices.
poster:bleauberry
thread:924178
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20091029/msgs/924475.html